Pioneer Elite 50” Plasma at $2299.95 beyond Hot

[BillR]

Yes, this top rated 50” HD plasma, with stand can be yours for 2299.99

BB and many others are selling the standard (non elite) version of this set for 3999.99.

Tweeter is making a strong come back and bought truck loads of these they were closing out for $3500.00 but have dropped the price as a promotional deal.

First, I don’t work for Tweeter or Pioneer so I’m not a shill or pimping these. Feel free to look up reviews on the PRO 11050 HD and I doubt you will find an even medium review. All the reviews point out this is the best set ever tested.

The blacks are so black on this set if you turn it on in a dark room there is no screen glow. That’s pretty black.

What might turn you off is this set is not a true 1080p however most of the stores are selling this set right next to the new true 1080p set and I defy you to tell the difference.

What sets the Elite apart from the standard models? Only on in 5 panels qualify to make it to the Elite line. All other parts are hand selected and you get a two year warrantee. Full ISA certified settings etc etc.

Please, no arguments about price, quality or any of the usual negative posts.

http://www.tweeter.com/default.asp

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteTVs/ci.PRO-1150HD.Kuro

I just got one and side by side with my 2 year old set was a jaw dropping experience.

Enjoy, I sure am;)

[crfracer290]

Yeah this is a super hot deal. People over at AVS forum have been raving about this promotion for the past few weeks.

[BrinNutz]

Is this the one in PC Mag last month that he basically said was the best TV he's ever compared.

His camera could barely register any light coming from the TV when it was pure plastic


Edit:

No, I don't think it is, that one was 1080P I believe

[BillR]

Is this the one in PC Mag last month that he basically said was the best TV he's ever compared.

His camera could barely register any light coming from the TV when it was pure plastic


Edit:

No, I don't think it is, that one was 1080P I believe

Pretty much the same set, except not 1080p. However as I suggested if compare the sets side by side you simply can’t see the difference.

Most of the Tweeter stores have them side by side for direct comparison. Don’t expect to see a difference between the sets.

[JCDenton]

What might turn you off is this set is not a true 1080p however most of the stores are selling this set right next to the new true 1080p set and I defy you to tell the difference.


Umm, no. It's easy to tell the difference at a normal viewing distance. I have a non 1080p pioneer and I don't even need to see it side by side with the true 1080p sets to be able to discern that the 1080p's are immensely better.

This is a decent price on a high end TV that is obsolete before you buy it. Not "beyond hot", just decent. Colors are excellent. Blacks are excellent. Pioneer probably makes the best plasmas you can buy at a mainstream retailer like Best Buy. However, as a longtime AV veteran this does not strike me as a good use of $2300. Unless you're someone who upgrades TV's every 1-2 years, it's a lot better over the long run to either shell out the extra for 1080p now, or just wait a bit until the true 1080p's are on closeout. Really, 1365X768 is not enough for 50 inch.

[interested]

All their panels are probably dropping in price since Pioneer is getting out of the plasma manufacturing business, and is starting to use Panasonic panels in their new units.

I wouldent be surprized if their new ones start falling in price soon, so people might wanna wait a little before they invest.

[BillR]

All their panels are probably dropping in price since Pioneer is getting out of the plasma manufacturing business, and is starting to use Panasonic panels in their new units.

I wouldent be surprized if their new ones start falling in price soon, so people might wanna wait a little before they invest.

No Panasonic built panels have yet been used in any pioneer plasma. As of right now Pioneer is the sole owner of its plasma panel designs and has not yet licensed that technology to anyone.

To date no other manufacture has even come close to the black levels and virtually unlimited colors Pioneer can produce.

The worrisome issue for past Pioneer owners and Pioneer as a company and especially the Elite owners is will Sharp be able to come up with a panel that meets the expectation that a Pioneer customer will expect. The same thing applies to the Plasma Panels possibly being outsourced to Panasonic.

While Panasonic has long been my second choice for a Plasma display they simply don’t have the black levels to compete. As for LCD product Sharp while a very forward thinking company has never cured their banding problem. Sharp has made a huge capitol investment in Pioneer Video so hopefully they can work out the details.

Pioneer Elite has been the benchmark for TV since the early 1980s and I for one would hate to seem them lose that place.;)

[GoldenTiger]

Not to threadcr**, but honestly, at $2300 I'd be looking into a projector if I were you, that kind of cash can pick up a nice 1080P model that will make a beautiful, large image of 100" or so including the screen. Yeah, it's not perfect for everyone depending on ambient light (though newer, brighter ones aren't so bad even during daytime in a non-fully-light-controlled room), but it's definitely a great option. I had a $1k-ish budget and went for an Epson Home Cinema TheatreLite 550 for $700 which is projecting a gorgeous 84" picture for me for $700... grabbed an Elite screen "open-box" from newegg that was brand-new, and a surround-sound setup (I went for an Onkyo SR-600B), bought a small bookshelf to put it on (4 feet high) and am loving it.

[Vader]

Let me just say that my bro has one of these and, IMHO, it's the best picture i've ever seen on a TV. I have the Panasonic 1080P 42" Plasma and while it's great..it doesn't even come close to how great the picture quality and colors are.

[Warn3rv3]

Wasn't there some hubbub recently about how ALL plasmas are on there way out due to some agreement amongst manufacturers on switching to LCD's? NO thread crap here. I have a 50" Vizio plasma (720 P up-converts to 1080i) and a i love it. Might we see more and more plasma screens coming down in price? I hope so. I'd love to have a true 1080P set when i can finally afford a blu-ray player.

[CrazyJ]

Wasn't there some hubbub recently about how ALL plasmas are on there way out due to some agreement amongst manufacturers on switching to LCD's? NO thread crap here. I have a 50" Vizio plasma (720 P up-converts to 1080i) and a i love it. Might we see more and more plasma screens coming down in price? I hope so. I'd love to have a true 1080P set when i can finally afford a blu-ray player.

I dont think so, just that Plasma even though has superior picture quality to LCD has not caught on with the mainstream.

[arcsum68]

Wasn't there some hubbub recently about how ALL plasmas are on there way out due to some agreement amongst manufacturers on switching to LCD's? NO thread crap here. I have a 50" Vizio plasma (720 P up-converts to 1080i) and a i love it. Might we see more and more plasma screens coming down in price? I hope so. I'd love to have a true 1080P set when i can finally afford a blu-ray player.

Theres been some speculation to that effect, mostly due to what CrazyJ pointed out.

Picture quality on plasma's is by far better than anything out there (at least so says pretty much every editorial comparison and professional opinion), however, people are afraid of image retention and think theres some huge power savings by going LCD over Plasma.

Couple that with the fact that LCD's are insanely bright and stand out on the display shelves and uninformed consumers are almost always going to pick the LCD.

Could be that the superior technology may loose out in the end, especially if production costs for LCD's continues to drop as its been.

[Warn3rv3]

Thanks for the clarification. I am huge fan of plasma and have been for quite a while. It's funny because last night i was talking to this 20 year kid who was telling me he didn't want a plasma because "you can't tip it on its side". When are you gonna need to put the thing on its side? He went and got his buddy and i talked to him about and same thing, "you can't put it on it's side". I asked about the important stuff (native resolution, if they plan on getting HD of any sort, etc.) and they hadn't a clue about any of it except that it doesn't go on it's side. Uninformed consumers. I had to go home and watch the episode of futurama where bender can't lay on his back.:D


Theres been some speculation to that effect, mostly due to what CrazyJ pointed out.

Picture quality on plasma's is by far better than anything out there (at least so says pretty much every editorial comparison and professional opinion), however, people are afraid of image retention and think theres some huge power savings by going LCD over Plasma.

Couple that with the fact that LCD's are insanely bright and stand out on the display shelves and uninformed consumers are almost always going to pick the LCD.

Could be that the superior technology may loose out in the end, especially if production costs for LCD's continues to drop as its been.

[interested]

No Panasonic built panels have yet been used in any pioneer plasma. As of right now Pioneer is the sole owner of its plasma panel designs and has not yet licensed that technology to anyone.


Sorry to inform you but Pioneer is getting out of the manufacturing of Plasma Panels and all the new models they start to make will use Panasonic panels..

I agree with you that Pioneer makes some really nice stuff,, probably even the best,, however its too expensive for them to continue doing so thus they are abandoning manufacturing their own supperior panels and using the cheaper Panasonics.. Its all about saving money.

Here is the news Link in case you missed it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST22772520080304

here is another link
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

Good news is that prices on these nice tv's should start to come down ;)

[brysig228]

Wasn't there some hubbub recently about how ALL plasmas are on there way out due to some agreement amongst manufacturers on switching to LCD's? NO thread crap here. I have a 50" Vizio plasma (720 P up-converts to 1080i) and a i love it. Might we see more and more plasma screens coming down in price? I hope so. I'd love to have a true 1080P set when i can finally afford a blu-ray player.

yes there is.. forgot which manufacturer who drop the plasma. i know 2 big company who will discontinue making plasma tvs. but if i'm spending 2300 bux on a tv i might as well get the 1080p. last december i bought me a 52" mitsu 1080p for 2100 bux. maybe not as good quality of the elite. not to mention freaking plasma are way too heavy. i won't be able to install that thing on my wall by myself like what i did to the mitsu. :p

[Warn3rv3]

So i'm not clueless! I could've sworn plasmas had some bad news recently. But like you mentioned in the next year we should see some nice prices for the "old" technology. My 50" plasma didn't seem that heavy... Well at least not as heavy as my 32" Philips Magnavox CRT.:cool:

Sorry to inform you but Pioneer is getting out of the manufacturing of Plasma Panels and all the new models they start to make will use Panasonic panels..

I agree with you that Pioneer makes some really nice stuff,, probably even the best,, however its too expensive for them to continue doing so thus they are abandoning manufacturing their own supperior panels and using the cheaper Panasonics.. Its all about saving money.

Here is the news Link in case you missed it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST22772520080304

here is another link
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

Good news is that prices on these nice tv's should start to come down ;)

[Superhuman]

I have one of these and I can vouch that the Elite plasmas have the best picture I've ever seen on any TV.

Every person who has ever been to my house has said the same thing.

Only difference is that I paid $5,000 for mine.

This is a steal of a deal.

[mastercheeze]

Really, 1365X768 is not enough for 50 inch.

Subjective opinion ftw. The best advice you can offer anyone is "Go see it for yourself". It's your money, you decide. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Case in point: Moms was shopping for new tv. She wanted plasma. I explained the differences to her, we went to look in store. She picked out a 50 inch Panasonic plasma, 13xx by 768. It looks fantastic. Neither of us have any regrets about her purchase.

Not trying to poop on the quoted's opinion, just that everyone should do themselves a favor and see with their own eyes.

[GoldenTiger]

Subjective opinion ftw. The best advice you can offer anyone is "Go see it for yourself". It's your money, you decide. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Case in point: Moms was shopping for new tv. She wanted plasma. I explained the differences to her, we went to look in store. She picked out a 50 inch Panasonic plasma, 13xx by 768. It looks fantastic. Neither of us have any regrets about her purchase.

Not trying to poop on the quoted's opinion, just that everyone should do themselves a favor and see with their own eyes.

Yep... some may prefer a projected image, some may prefer the videogame "punchiness" of an LCD, or the deep blacks of a plasma... and when you're spending this kind of cash, you'd be silly not to consider all the options and do as much research as possible, even if you can't see one in-person.

[JCDenton]

Subjective opinion ftw. The best advice you can offer anyone is "Go see it for yourself". It's your money, you decide. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Case in point: Moms was shopping for new tv. She wanted plasma. I explained the differences to her, we went to look in store. She picked out a 50 inch Panasonic plasma, 13xx by 768. It looks fantastic. Neither of us have any regrets about her purchase.

Not trying to poop on the quoted's opinion, just that everyone should do themselves a favor and see with their own eyes.



I guess the moral of the story is that for a joe-six-pack buyer who knows nothing about plasmas, a 720p-ish native resolution is plenty. However, those aren't the types of buyers I'd expect to be interested in dropping $2300 on a pioneer or posting on [H]ardforum. They usually buy something like a Maxent (or even worse, a LCD). I think a sophisticated user looking at spending this kind of money might have a more discerning eye than your mother and would want to make sure they got a display that was somewhat future-proof.

There isn't really anything subjective about the fact that a person with average eyesight sitting within the standard viewing distance of a 50inch 720p plasma is going to be able to discern gaps between the pixels and experience screen door effect. Whereas, it takes extremely good eyesight to discern gaps on a 1080p plasma.

[GoldenTiger]

There isn't really anything subjective about the fact that a person with average eyesight sitting within the standard viewing distance of a 50inch 720p plasma is going to be able to discern gaps between the pixels and experience screen door effect. Whereas, it takes extremely good eyesight to discern gaps on a 1080p plasma.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to call ya on this one. I'm viewing an 84" (eighty-four inch) screen that is 720p and do not see any screen door effect at a seating distance of 12 feet. I do not have bad eyesight. The pixels simply are not discernable. Therefore, on a much smaller display of 50" (fifty inches), the pixel structure will not be visible either barring some special defect with the screen.

[lixuelai]

I guess the moral of the story is that for a joe-six-pack buyer who knows nothing about plasmas, a 720p-ish native resolution is plenty. However, those aren't the types of buyers I'd expect to be interested in dropping $2300 on a pioneer or posting on [H]ardforum. They usually buy something like a Maxent (or even worse, a LCD). I think a sophisticated user looking at spending this kind of money might have a more discerning eye than your mother and would want to make sure they got a display that was somewhat future-proof.

There isn't really anything subjective about the fact that a person with average eyesight sitting within the standard viewing distance of a 50inch 720p plasma is going to be able to discern gaps between the pixels and experience screen door effect. Whereas, it takes extremely good eyesight to discern gaps on a 1080p plasma.

Lol so you have extremely good eyesight...so what? Just because someone is happy with a 720p doesnt mean he or she is less of an "expert" than you and s/he should buy a Maxent.

[BillR]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to call ya on this one. I'm viewing an 84" (eighty-four inch) screen that is 720p and do not see any screen door effect at a seating distance of 12 feet. I do not have bad eyesight. The pixels simply are not discernable. Therefore, on a much smaller display of 50" (fifty inches), the pixel structure will not be visible either barring some special defect with the screen.

You are quite right which is why in my OP I flatly stated go see them side by side. I pretty much defy anyone looking even at 12 inches to tell the sets apart.

As to the premise that the resolution on the Pio Elite isn’t enough for a 50” set perhaps that poster can explain why either set looks great at 1080i? Your logic fails.

To the poster who didn’t need to compare his standard Pioneer to an Elite to KNOW there is a difference the fact is while not as black and even with some of the missing processing in the standard set you would still be hard pressed to see pixels on either set.

As to BB and Pioneer and Pioneer Elite, regular BB stores don’t, can’t, carry the Elite product, only the BB stores that are tied with Magnolia Audio Video since BB bought them out years ago.

Finally to the poster who insisted on pointing me to the links about sourcing of panels, I acknowledged that 6 or 7 posts above yours. There is still a decision to be made weather to allow Panasonic to use Pioneers designs to be used in the Panasonic panels. If so that would be good for both companies.

Now I’ll state an opinion. My fear is the TV market will go the way of everything else these days, screw the quality, people want cheap. A very similar situation we faced in the HiFi business with the advent of MP-3. It makes less then no sense to hook an MP-3 player to a good audio system just to enjoy missing half the music.

This country used to demand quality, now we have become the ultimate whores of Wal-Mart and China. Frankly, that sucks.

[Zetherin]

You are quite right which is why in my OP I flatly stated go see them side by side. I pretty much defy anyone looking even at 12 inches to tell the sets apart.

As to the premise that the resolution on the Pio Elite isn’t enough for a 50” set perhaps that poster can explain why either set looks great at 1080i? Your logic fails.

To the poster who didn’t need to compare his standard Pioneer to an Elite to KNOW there is a difference the fact is while not as black and even with some of the missing processing in the standard set you would still be hard pressed to see pixels on either set.

As to BB and Pioneer and Pioneer Elite, regular BB stores don’t, can’t, carry the Elite product, only the BB stores that are tied with Magnolia Audio Video since BB bought them out years ago.

Finally to the poster who insisted on pointing me to the links about sourcing of panels, I acknowledged that 6 or 7 posts above yours. There is still a decision to be made weather to allow Panasonic to use Pioneers designs to be used in the Panasonic panels. If so that would be good for both companies.

Now I’ll state an opinion. My fear is the TV market will go the way of everything else these days, screw the quality, people want cheap. A very similar situation we faced in the HiFi business with the advent of MP-3. It makes less then no sense to hook an MP-3 player to a good audio system just to enjoy missing half the music.

This country used to demand quality, now we have become the ultimate whores of Wal-Mart and China. Frankly, that sucks.

When did our country demand quality?

And if you're implying that China doesn't have anything of quality, I'd suggest trying some of their fucking food. For instance, I had szechuan pork tonight and it was bangin' (even though the szechuan pork had tonight was Americanized, and most likely made from products from Walmart... but we'll disregard that for the sake of my argument)

Anyway, the point is MP3's are easy to download, and hell, who doesn't like a good whore?

[wiseoracle]

When did our country demand quality?

And if you're implying that China doesn't have anything of quality, I'd suggest trying some of their fucking food. For instance, I had szechuan pork tonight and it was bangin' (even though the szechuan pork had tonight was Americanized, and most likely made from products from Walmart... but we'll disregard that for the sake of my argument)

Anyway, the point is MP3's are easy to download, and hell, who doesn't like a good whore?

When our old Zenith TV's would last for 20 years. When the appliances we bought lasted a lifetime.

Ever since production went overseas, and Walmart, the market changed to cheap goods.

[JCDenton]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to call ya on this one. I'm viewing an 84" (eighty-four inch) screen that is 720p and do not see any screen door effect at a seating distance of 12 feet. I do not have bad eyesight. The pixels simply are not discernable. Therefore, on a much smaller display of 50" (fifty inches), the pixel structure will not be visible either barring some special defect with the screen.

Is this supposed "84 inch screen" even a plasma? Sorry, but you're probably looking at a projection TV. You realize that an 84 inch plasma will typically run over $20,000 right? At any rate you would have to be half blind to be unable to notice the blockyness of pixels on a plasma of that size (even if we do grant that you are a total baller with a $20K+ set). I can even see it on 42 inch 720p plasmas at 7-8 feet.

LOL at you trying to pass off the well known trend of being able to see the pixel structure of plasmas as "some special defect with the screen". That is grade A flame.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/04/pioneer-50-inch-1080p-plasma-screen-due-in-june/

I guess the comments to this article, with people being concerned about eliminating screen door effect and shrinking the distance between pixels are just fabricated?

[seemlessthunder]

Do they deliver out-of-state? There don't seem to be any tweeters in mine.

[UCFShadowWrecker]

Is this supposed "84 inch screen" even a plasma? Sorry, but you're probably looking at a projection TV. You realize that an 84 inch plasma will typically run over $20,000 right? At any rate you would have to be half blind to be unable to notice the blockyness of pixels on a plasma of that size (even if we do grant that you are a total baller with a $20K+ set). I can even see it on 42 inch 720p plasmas at 7-8 feet.

LOL at you trying to pass off the well known trend of being able to see the pixel structure of plasmas as "some special defect with the screen". That is grade A flame.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/04/pioneer-50-inch-1080p-plasma-screen-due-in-june/

I guess the comments to this article, with people being concerned about eliminating screen door effect and shrinking the distance between pixels are just fabricated?

That 84" is a projector he mentioned on Page 1 of this thread. I may be misinformed, but I thought Plasmas had a short life-span and produced much more heat than even CRTs. Please correct me if I am wrong. I live in South Florida and it is already to hot!

[imyourzero]

Wow, I must be the only one here who doesn't think plasma is vastly superior to LCD. (note: I'm not questioning the quality of the Elite sets, just referring in general to most sets in the 1k-2k range)

I guess I'm the one who is half blind, because I did go to the stores and compare LCD/DLP/plasma. I thought many of the high end LCD TVs, especially the newer 120hz models, were pretty fantastic. That's not to say they were heaps better than the plasmas I looked at, but they certainly weren't the disgrace to motion video that some people make them out to be. Black levels might not be on par with plasma yet, but LCDs do have a lot going for them also.

I just get tired of seeing the AV snobs trash LCD sets. There are crappy panels and quality panels. I wanted a large monitor, and LCD is the only way to go for that use. My buddy has his PC hooked up to a 42" 1080p plasma, and the level of sharpness doesn't even compare (not to mention the danger of static images like the taskbar -- he's an idiot). There is a Sony Bravia LCD at Sam's Club that has some of the best image quality I've ever seen, panel type notwithstanding. The content on that TV looks almost 3D, like I'm looking through a window and seeing actual moving things on the other side. Color me extremely impressed.

Despite that, we ended up with a 50" 1080p Hitachi and while I'm generally very happy with it, I know I wouldn't have any major regrets had I purchased a good 1080p LCD set. We've got our Wii hooked up to the plasma, and despite the burn-in reduction and screen saver features I can still detect some image retention if the Wii sits at a menu for a few minutes. Same with DVD menus. It does go away, but it's sort of disconcerting as I've never encountered that with any LCD I've owned.

And I can relate to what mastercheeze said above...I compared the 50" 1080p Hitachi side by side with a 50" 720p LG, and to be honest, in the store I thought the 720p LG had a slightly better picture. I don't know WHY, but with the content they were showing I thought that the 720p set was slightly sharper and richer. I then told myself that if we were spending this much money on a TV, it was going to be as future-proof as possible so I had to rule 720p out even though there was not a thing wrong with the image quality on that set. I attributed the minor differences to the glare-reduction layer on the Hitachi (which, in hindsight I'm glad I opted for due to daytime viewing) and the fact that I had no idea if either set was calibrated correctly, set to factory defaults, or adjusted incorrectly by the last guy that wanted to compare the TVs.

There is no disputing that HD content is going to look great on just about any HD set, LCD plasma or other. But image quality is subjective and you just have to go with what YOUR eyes tell you, not what other people pressure you into doing or what your heard on the intarweb.

[nilepez]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to call ya on this one. I'm viewing an 84" (eighty-four inch) screen that is 720p and do not see any screen door effect at a seating distance of 12 feet. I do not have bad eyesight. The pixels simply are not discernable. Therefore, on a much smaller display of 50" (fifty inches), the pixel structure will not be visible either barring some special defect with the screen.

I don't know about your set, but I've noticed a gap between pixels on every plasma I've ever seen, with the possible exception of some of the more expensive fujitu sets and Pioneer Elite plasmas.

But I'm not sure if I noticed it all of those or not. I only know that I've liked all the PE plasmas and most of the Fujitsu models that cost cost around 15k or more. I did see one Fujitsu last year that was in the price range that looked like shit (and it was in a high end store in Houston).

Personally, i liked the Sony XBR2 SXRD sets and was really disapointed when Sony decided to stop making them (especially since the 70" XBR5 was supposed to be a mere 14" deep!).

All that said, I think this is a GREAT deal for those that want a plasma. The price is fantastic and as i said, Pioneer makes one of the best Plasma screens (if not the best) around...and the cabinets (or is it just a frame?) are gorgeous.

Great find OP.

[Kyle_Bennett]

I have had a Pioneer 5040HD now for a few years, bought it for 4500 bucks when that WAS a deal on them. It has been the best TV I have ever owned. If I flipped TVs every few years, I would buy this Elite, but I don't. I will wait for that 1080P Pioneer deal to come around in the next couple of years and retire my 5040HD to the bed room and replace my 10 year old 36" Mitsu tube.....which is still a great picture.

[seemlessthunder]

Just to contribute a bit to the discussion here, if your primary concern is picture quality and not resolution, you should jump on this. While you notice a difference between 720p and 1080p, that's not synonymous with 720p automatically looking worse. It just means it looks less defined. A good upscaler will make SD DVD look great at 720p res upscaled, but will look worse on 1080p than on a SD set. So if you have massive collections of SD DVD movies you probably want a 720p set as a good compromise between HD and SD. I have a kickass DLP with awesome blacks and I can tell you having a good quality set with good image processing is vastly more important than 720/1080p discussion. My set looks better than most of friends 1080p LCD sets (although they have the benefit of using them for pc etc...). I took a look in store at the non-elite version of this and it's one of the few plasmas that looks damn good and better than all the LCD's around it.

Now before you flame DLP, I'm not advocating DLP in general or anything. Yeah, I know it sucks in bright light. Yeah, I know viewing angles can be an issue depending on the set. Now that we've moved on, the kuro has blacks like a good DLP (there are a lot of shitty DLP's that look like crap too, esp. at the low end) but also has good brightness similar to an LCD. If this were available at this price at the time I bought my 50" DLP, I would purchase it in a heartbeat instead. I'm generally not a fan of "glowy" sets (and by that I mean sets where you can turn the lights off with a straight back signal and use it to light your room ala most LCD's). This seemed not to be one (although based on lighting conditions at the BB I can't say with certainty but the blacks definitely were darker and more black than the sets around it).

I would go in store and check these out before buying, but I def. recommend you grab one of these if you have large DVD libraries. They'll look better than they would on a 1080p set after upscaling. The processor is VERY important for SD DVD's. The one on my DLP kicks ass and this one I imagine is similarly excellent (which is what people seem to be saying). A lot of the similar 1080p sets in this price range or considerably less actually will look terrible with SD, partially because of resolution being so high versus the source feed, but also because they have worthless image processing. If you must have 1080p, I would wait for the 1080p version of this set. Unlike a lot of cheaper plasmas, this one also is supposed to have builtin phase shifters that effectively elimate image retention by preventing them from ever being static enough to burn-in. This is arguably the best plasma and best set out there right now. The only question is whether you want to wait for the 1080p version to come down.

If I had a tweeter in my state, I might buy one just to have such a HQ set for when my DLP goes.

[GoldenTiger]

I don't know about your set, but I've noticed a gap between pixels on every plasma I've ever seen, with the possible exception of some of the more expensive fujitu sets and Pioneer Elite plasmas.

Great find OP.

See my first post in the thread regarding my projector.

Is this supposed "84 inch screen" even a plasma? Sorry, but you're probably looking at a projection TV. You realize that an 84 inch plasma will typically run over $20,000 right? At any rate you would have to be half blind to be unable to notice the blockyness of pixels on a plasma of that size (even if we do grant that you are a total baller with a $20K+ set). I can even see it on 42 inch 720p plasmas at 7-8 feet.


Read more carefully before claiming I am trying to incite a flamewar :p. Purposely pretending to misunderstand someone does NOT bolster your own argument.

[mastercheeze]

I can even see it on 42 inch 720p plasmas at 7-8 feet.


Well there you go. We sit about 10-12 feet from the 50" set my mom bought. Any closer and we might notice.

[SatTech]

The lifetime of plasmas (at least quality ones) is not short. The math comes out to something like 13 years to HALF brightness if viewed 8 hours a day. It is phospor based (same as CRTs) and have similar lifespans. Since most sets require the brightness to be set around 50% (my 6010 is set at 45), you just adjust the brightness up as it dims.

[ozziegn]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but I don't give a damn.

<snip> Post flamebait elsewhere. Kyle

[Kyle_Bennett]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but I don't give a damn.


It is just one of those things you don't see the value in (literally). I bet if we sat down we could find something in your budget that I would call insane as well.

Given your standpoint, this is not the thread that you should be posting in.

[Xilikon]

Damn, why does this happen 2 years too late for me :( I bought a Panasonic 42" for 2700$ when it's a great deal (it was averaging over 3000$ for that one).

Oh well ! There's always next time in the future...

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/7959/18/0.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&tnum=33&id=7959)http://www.hardfolding.com/wctag1.php/mem/70/17.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=2411&id=70&type=17)

[BillR]

The lifetime of plasmas (at least quality ones) is not short. The math comes out to something like 13 years to HALF brightness if viewed 8 hours a day. It is phospor based (same as CRTs) and have similar lifespans. Since most sets require the brightness to be set around 50% (my 6010 is set at 45), you just adjust the brightness up as it dims.

Actually you are almost right. A number of years ago I believe it was the Wall Street Journal (Just where you would look for good AV information) wrote an article on the short lifespan of a Plasma TV on Page 1 then later retracted it (page 6) when shown by various manufactures they were wrong.

TV set life is really measured in half life. The half life is defined by the point in time when the set is about halfway to needing replaced, typically 5 years or so. Do the math and an old CRT TV should be replaced about every 10 years due to lack of brightness.

Most high end Plasma makers give a half life of 10 to 12 years or a total life of well over 20 years, barring dropping it from a high place. Yes, overall the set is more expensive but in the long run can cost you less. The biggest plus is, no maintenance. No bulb to replace in the middle of Super Bowl etc.

As to heat, they run somewhere between an LCD and an older CRT set. The plasma panel itself is more like a Neon bulb then a CRT.;)

[brentsg]

Wow, I must be the only one here who doesn't think plasma is vastly superior to LCD. (note: I'm not questioning the quality of the Elite sets, just referring in general to most sets in the 1k-2k range)

I guess I'm the one who is half blind, because I did go to the stores and compare LCD/DLP/plasma. I thought many of the high end LCD TVs, especially the newer 120hz models, were pretty fantastic. That's not to say they were heaps better than the plasmas I looked at, but they certainly weren't the disgrace to motion video that some people make them out to be. Black levels might not be on par with plasma yet, but LCDs do have a lot going for them also.


I wanted one of the 120hz LCDs so I bought a Samsung 4671. At the time I also had a Pioneer 5080 so I had them setup side by side, and my primary use is for gaming.

My home theater environment negates many of the LCD advantages and favors the blacks of the Pioneer, so that leaned toward the plasma. I was very surprised to see how poorly the LCD handled motion, with/without the AMP feature. With gaming I kept seeing instances where objects, or the background would blur out, then snap back to clarity. I guess if you didn't have a plasma handy you could convince yourself that it was supposed to be that way. Racing games really bothered me in this regard. I would make a small course correction, only to have all the surrounding detail lost to blur, then snap back.

In the end I upgraded to a Pioneer 5010 because I thought I would see alot of improvement at my 8' viewing distance, but in the end it was mostly wasted money.

I would JUMP all over an 1150 at these current prices.

[brentsg]

I guess the moral of the story is that for a joe-six-pack buyer who knows nothing about plasmas, a 720p-ish native resolution is plenty. However, those aren't the types of buyers I'd expect to be interested in dropping $2300 on a pioneer or posting on [H]ardforum. They usually buy something like a Maxent (or even worse, a LCD). I think a sophisticated user looking at spending this kind of money might have a more discerning eye than your mother and would want to make sure they got a display that was somewhat future-proof.

There isn't really anything subjective about the fact that a person with average eyesight sitting within the standard viewing distance of a 50inch 720p plasma is going to be able to discern gaps between the pixels and experience screen door effect. Whereas, it takes extremely good eyesight to discern gaps on a 1080p plasma.

I guess I disagree with your post. I have spent a good bit of time with a Pioneer 5080 and I currently own a 5010. I have 20/20 vision and I sit with my eyes at almost exactly 8' from the screen. I upgraded to the 5010 because I could detect the SDE on th 5080 on some content. Most of the time it was not noticeable.

If my viewing spot was 1 foot further back then this is no doubt that I would be gaining more from the Elite's additional controls than the 1080p that I obtained with the 5010.

These displays have such good processing that I just don't see how 1080p is "future proof" unless you are likely to move to a closer viewing position at some time. I just simply see resolution as a function of viewing distance, not the level of sophistication of the buyer. In fact I see a sophisticated buyer making an informed choice to get the most performance out of their money, whether it be on a 768p model with added functionality, or a 1080p set with less. A less educated buyer will purchase 1080p because of the powerful marketing campaign regardless of any other factors.

[Kyle_Bennett]

I dont see owning a 50" TV for an 8' viewing distance. 42" would likley treat most folks a lot better.

[ozziegn]

A less educated buyer will purchase 1080p because of the powerful marketing campaign regardless of any other factors.

okay, so what about people that absolutely want the best in picture resolution say with something like Blu-Ray DVD movies? surely you can't expect to gain the most from those DVDs on a non 1080p TV right?

I mean come on, let's face it. it's pretty safe to assume that the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war has ended with BD being the winner. so don't you think that the majority of the population is going to want to have a TV that's actually capable of viewing the full resolution of Blu-Ray like it was intended?

[Warn3rv3]

Doesn't this depend on how far you're sitting from the TV? Also, someone pointed out that buying 1080P for the sake of having the "best" was an ill informed decision and i happen to agree. From about 8 feet it's hard to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p and my eyesight is 20/20. I think a tv like a preference in consoles, cars, and women (or men for some of you guys out there) is a preference thing. :D

okay, so what about people that absolutely want the best in picture resolution say with something like Blu-Ray DVD movies? surely you can't expect to gain the most from those DVDs on a non 1080p TV right?

I mean come on, let's face it. it's pretty safe to assume that the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war has ended with BD being the winner. so don't you think that the majority of the population is going to want to have a TV that's actually capable of viewing the full resolution of Blu-Ray like it was intended?

[Treyshadow]

Actually no ozziegn. I also have 20/20 vision, and sit 14 feet from a 110 inch screen (projector). A good 720P device with some of the best processing out there will have a better overall picture than the 1080P device with lesser capabilities. Since the nature of the techy is to purchase that shiny new 1080P set because of the sheer marketing and ego boost, they purchase mostly for personal piece of mind. What is being stated by brentsg is true.

At a certain distance, 720P vs. 1080P becomes a wash
At a certain distance better processing wins over sheer resolution

This isn't a Joe six-pack thing, this is a reality thing. Now ok, I have a 1080P projector, but its only for my front row. My back row quality has not changed much (save the better black levels from the new unit) as the resolution had reached a point where the screen door effect (SDE) was mitigated. According to BrentSG, at 8 feet (96 inches) the 50 inch set at almost 2:1 viewing distance pixels and SDE has been nullified.

[toddw]

I've heard some sets look so good it's like looking out a window.

[BillR]

Actually no ozziegn. I also have 20/20 vision, and sit 14 feet from a 110 inch screen (projector). A good 720P device with some of the best processing out there will have a better overall picture than the 1080P device with lesser capabilities. Since the nature of the techy is to purchase that shiny new 1080P set because of the sheer marketing and ego boost, they purchase mostly for personal piece of mind. What is being stated by brentsg is true.

At a certain distance, 720P vs. 1080P becomes a wash
At a certain distance better processing wins over sheer resolution

This isn't a Joe six-pack thing, this is a reality thing. Now ok, I have a 1080P projector, but its only for my front row. My back row quality has not changed much (save the better black levels from the new unit) as the resolution had reached a point where the screen door effect (SDE) was mitigated. According to BrentSG, at 8 feet (96 inches) the 50 inch set at almost 2:1 viewing distance pixels and SDE has been nullified.

Putting aside everything else for a moment you as a customer have to decide the primary use of the device. Are you mostly a TV watcher or are you a true home theater enthusiast?

There in as the Bard said lies the rub.

A TV oriented person will usually hang a 50” flat panel on the wall in a typical living room and find themselves 8 to 10 feet away. Since in many cases they have just moved from a 27” or 32” TV to them this is literally a huge improvement and just fine for their intended use.


The home theater guy or gal already knows that they want to create or recreate a true movie theater in their home, sound and all. You have to think for a moment, where do you sit when you go to the movies. My guess (born out of fact) is you will sit about mid-theater. Why you ask. If you are too close you have to move your head from side to side to see the movie, cool when you were a little kid not so cool as an adult. Over time you end up sitting further back from the screen to a point where the whole screen fills your field of vision without having to move either your head or eyes to take in the whole picture. Since your eyes have the potential to consume up to 80% of your body energy if you sit that close to the screen you tend to tire out and fall asleep or lose interest in the movie. (Lucas school 101).

The movie studios take all this into account when they finalize the surround sound for a given movie, that is, the sound is scaled to the ratio I described above.

The end result is simple, when you have full screen vision and full audio fill you will forget you are home and become immersed in the theater experience. Don’t forget that seeing a really detailed picture is important but half the budget of a good movie was spent on the sound.

Bad sound and be a really bad experience, worst then seeing pixels. I’ve seen 65” RP TV’s with speakers no taller then 3 feet while the center channel is placed on top of the set. The result is when you watch a film such as Terminator and Arnold rides across the front of your room on his well recorded Harley it actually goes up hill from the left speaker to the center channel and back down hill through the right channel all the while your eyes see him riding on a level surface. The effect is certainly diminished if not lost altogether.

Ok, yes I went off topic a bit but I’ve spent years learning all this and I have no problem sharing what I’ve learned. Sony when they still produced their CRT based 36 XBR suggested a viewing distance of no more then 4 feet. Mitsubishi back in the day of their 65” RPG sets suggests 8 to 9 feet as a maximum. I am sitting 6 feet from my 50 inch.

So, 14 feet from your 110” screen is not out of line at all. Have you tried 12 feet?;)

[seemlessthunder]

okay, so what about people that absolutely want the best in picture resolution say with something like Blu-Ray DVD movies? surely you can't expect to gain the most from those DVDs on a non 1080p TV right?

I mean come on, let's face it. it's pretty safe to assume that the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war has ended with BD being the winner. so don't you think that the majority of the population is going to want to have a TV that's actually capable of viewing the full resolution of Blu-Ray like it was intended?

I think those are a) the same people that would buy 480p instead of 1080p if it were marketted as better or b) people who use their sets as computer monitors.

You can't compare bottom of the barrel or even medium quality displays to very high end displays. These normally cost over 2x the price of a standard fare 1080p set for a reason. You get higher quality panels with better processing, usually precalibrated for color accuracy, actually capable of accurate color (unlike many cheaper displays that are often somewhat off), better darks/lights, better color gamut, more precise parts and inspection.

Processing makes a huge difference as I've stated before and, while more detail is great, a high quality display will have a much better picture than a cheapo. This is a great opportunity to get a premium display for near normal price. It wouldn't surprise me if this would still look great as a computer monitor putting out 1080i.

Saying 1080p automatically is better is like saying that louder speakers are automatically better. But in practice, loud speakers may sound much worse then speakers that are slighly softer, but have more accuracy. Speakers can have distortion, cut of highs/lows, have less dynamic range between them, output to a very focused point or have a wider range of accurate output, etc... Point is there's a lot of factors that go into good video, just like there are that go into sound. 1080p is just one factor.

Assuming everything else is identical, 1080p WILL be better than 720p. The 1080p sets in the pricerange of this Pioneer are NOT identical and pale in comparison on all other fronts where the PE excels. The 1080p version is around $6k and it's that expensive for a reason - it blows standard 1080p sets you see in BB/CC out of the water. Even the non-elite versions of these are very expensive. $2500 is the price of the non-elite version of this. The non-elite 1080p version is $5k.

I saw the standard version of this in BB and it looked better than the 1080p sets around it. If you're talking about "the majority of people", they will be brainwashed by marketting hype. Personally, I prefer to buy something for quality and my own enjoyment rather than because Sony said I should or some other big company that has a vested interest in telling you that the newest thing is better or necessary. The "majority" or people liking something or thinking they like something doesn't automatically make it better. It's proven that if people are told repeatedly something's true that they'll assume it is unless they actively are analyzing it. This is true here. You've been told countless times that 1080p is better, so you've come to believe it automatically is and that anything less is poor quality in comparison.

1080p is better, but that statement carries the assumption that all other factors are equal. It usually isn't stated that way though so the "majority" of people will incorrectly look past a 720p set without a second glance if only because of the fact that it's 720p. This doesn't automatically make 1080p better, it just means that people have been hammered with a simpler message to get them to buy something "1080p is the best and what you want in a tv" versus "1080p is the best assuming all factors are the same, but if they aren't a 720p set may actually be significantly better due to a number of factors....". Which one is easier to remember? Exactly - like the "average" person you claim to represent, you've overlooked everything besides raw resolution because that's the only thing you've been trained to look for in a tv.

In terms of having the "true resolution" that's very dependent on the film and the transfer. Some BR disks are poor upconversions and actually look worse than a SD DVD upconverted on a high quality display like this one. Going forward, directors don't give a damn if you're able to see a particle of dust on a desk or an extra freckle on an actors nose. If it matters that much, they'll do a close shot on it or incorporate it in a similar such way that places emphasis on it such that you notice it.

[nilepez]

FWIW, I believe the minimum recommended distance from a set is roughly 1.55 * Width of Screen.

So I'd assume the min on a 50" screen is roughly 6.5'

I personally found that 6-8' (I didn't measure) worked fine with a 70" XBR2 SXRD set.

Of course I might not sit as close if it was a plasma. I find that i see too much dot crawling with them. But as I said before, the Elites are probably an exception to the rule.

[wasupdog]

Now I’ll state an opinion. My fear is the TV market will go the way of everything else these days, screw the quality, people want cheap. A very similar situation we faced in the HiFi business with the advent of MP-3. It makes less then no sense to hook an MP-3 player to a good audio system just to enjoy missing half the music.

This country used to demand quality, now we have become the ultimate whores of Wal-Mart and China. Frankly, that sucks.

yes, this sucks but u can't do anything about it. not everyone makes an attorney's salary and the majority of ppl don't make anything close to that, if even half that. believe me, i'm not against you, i'm just stating the facts. my last stereo was $5k, not multi-channel av, it was equipped with a single disc player for 2-channel music cd's. if i made more money i'd own my own condo and have a pimp av setup.

when i was in college and worked retail u naturally notice whenever something goes on sale it sells like hotcakes. it has been said before, 99% of people are not at the enthusiast level where they nitpick and research to get the highest sound and picture quality. they just want cheap :confused:

[BillR]

FWIW, I believe the minimum recommended distance from a set is roughly 1.55 * Width of Screen.

So I'd assume the min on a 50" screen is roughly 6.5'

I personally found that 6-8' (I didn't measure) worked fine with a 70" XBR2 SXRD set.

Of course I might not sit as close if it was a plasma. I find that i see too much dot crawling with them. But as I said before, the Elites are probably an exception to the rule.

You are right in the ballpark for a home theater. Nothing is written in stone as far as the calculations on seating distance but again, if you want to take advantage of the whole theater concept your formula is very close.

While dot crawl is far easier to see up close a better set such as your 70” Sony won’t have that problem because dot crawl is a direct result of the quality of the comb filter used by the manufacture. Obviously XBR being Sony’s flagship product dot crawl is not an issue.;)

[BillR]

yes, this sucks but u can't do anything about it. not everyone makes an attorney's salary and the majority of ppl don't make anything close to that, if even half that. believe me, i'm not against you, i'm just stating the facts. my last stereo was $5k, not multi-channel av, it was equipped with a single disc player for 2-channel music cd's. if i made more money i'd own my own condo and have a pimp av setup.

when i was in college and worked retail u naturally notice whenever something goes on sale it sells like hotcakes. it has been said before, 99% of people are not at the enthusiast level where they nitpick and research to get the highest sound and picture quality. they just want cheap :confused:

To be honest further discussion along those lines calls for this thread to be moved to another area of the forum.

Thankfully all has remained civilized so far which is a good thing but the truth is we have gone far off track.

Face it the socio economic plight of this country at the moment doesn’t belong here.

That said my OP represents a wicked pisser of a deal for many people.;)

[blazingrig]

I guess the moral of the story is that for a joe-six-pack buyer who knows nothing about plasmas, a 720p-ish native resolution is plenty. However, those aren't the types of buyers I'd expect to be interested in dropping $2300 on a pioneer or posting on [H]ardforum. They usually buy something like a Maxent (or even worse, a LCD). I think a sophisticated user looking at spending this kind of money might have a more discerning eye than your mother and would want to make sure they got a display that was somewhat future-proof.

There isn't really anything subjective about the fact that a person with average eyesight sitting within the standard viewing distance of a 50inch 720p plasma is going to be able to discern gaps between the pixels and experience screen door effect. Whereas, it takes extremely good eyesight to discern gaps on a 1080p plasma.


Please try to sound more than a pretentious uninformed douche the next time you post. I own a 1080p PRO-110FD and I've seen the 720p 5080 numerous times (friend owns one) and I can tell you that regardless of its 720p resolution it simply outclasses the majority of 1080P TV's. Numerous professional reviewers and home theater enthusiasts have said the exact same thing and you can you shouldn't have a hard time finding the reviews. This set blows away tons of 1080p tv's due to it's exceptional blacks, color recreation, and PQ. Also for your information aren't you aware tons of informed users purchase acceptable higher end LCD's because of specific needs?

The Samsung 71/81 series, Sharps newer series, etc have made huge improvements even though they do not have the Black level of a CRT/plasma but they come close after calibration. Plasmas start around the 42' range and prices for 1080p sets climb even higher. What do you expect all of those people looking for a slightly under 42' 1080p set with multiple connections (dvr, OTA, dvi for computer use, multiple HDMI etc) to go with? Not to mention tons of people who need a LCD around the 26-32' range on their desk for simultaneous PC/PS3/DVR?etc usage. All of this is coming from someone who has a 1080p plasma, 1080p LCD, and CRT in their household. So believe me when I say the majority of your post is bullshi*.

I laugh at snobs like you who try to sound knowledgeable and come here and post laughable nonsense. Go take a look at the AVS forums, you might learn a thing or two from people who actually have the equipment and can make realistic comparisons.

[blazingrig]

Now I’ll state an opinion. My fear is the TV market will go the way of everything else these days, screw the quality, people want cheap. A very similar situation we faced in the HiFi business with the advent of MP-3. It makes less then no sense to hook an MP-3 player to a good audio system just to enjoy missing half the music.

This country used to demand quality, now we have become the ultimate whores of Wal-Mart and China. Frankly, that sucks.

I don't think most higher end products have gone anywhere. There are companies that make lower end budget products and then there are companies that make middle to higher end products. Typically smart companies offer midrange-high range standpoints, but lets be honest, everyone is not in the same income bracket and people often work their way up. You might start with a lower end product for a limited time and then upgrade to a high end product when you are able to. This generally applies to younger people like students, people starting jobs after college, or just people starting out in whatever they do. Vehicles have Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo ect. Watches have Rolex, Omega, etc even though there are millions of cheap Timex's and the like out there. Even clothing has it's expensive manufacturers (quality shoes/suits/etc) and also the cheap ones who sell their stuff at Wal mart.

However the prior high end companies I mentioned all are doing good. Why? because theres a market for them, just like theres a market for every price point. It's not that people want cheap, it is that some people start out needing cheap or need cheap. Or some rich people people just happen to be stingy with their money, but hey, I can't fault someone for being money conscious or choosing to spend more in whatever interests/benifits them. I know when I had to work up in terms of cars, housing, electronics and everything else.Now I can afford the "higher end" things, however I back when I younger sometimes I had to go with cheap, not because I wanted to but because I had to.

TV's aren't getting worse, far form it, in actuality they are making numerous improvements every year, especially in the LCD/Plasma market. Every manufacturer is pushing out even pricier higher end sets every year, the same way manufacturers like Vizeo are offering cheaper budget sets every year. Vizio/Olevia have the lower end covered. Samsung/Sony/LG/Panasonic pretty much have the mid range to higher range covered. OLED are coming out soon. LCD's are making improvements every year in the contrast/color department and have improved higher end sets every year. Same thing applies to DLP's. Bottom line is this. If you have the money, don't worry, theres always something that'll meet your needs.

(I apologize for the long post which was slightly off topic... However this TV is great, for anyone interested check the AVS forums or home theater magazine/etc for reviews, etc)

[BillR]

Please try to sound more than a pretentious uninformed douche the next time you post. I own a 1080p PRO-110FD and I've seen the 720p 5080 numerous times (friend owns one) and I can tell you that regardless of its 720p resolution it simply outclasses the majority of 1080P TV's. Numerous professional reviewers and home theater enthusiasts have said the exact same thing and you can you shouldn't have a hard time finding the reviews. This set blows away tons of 1080p tv's due to it's exceptional blacks, color recreation, and PQ. Also for your information aren't you aware tons of informed users purchase acceptable higher end LCD's because of specific needs?

The Samsung 71/81 series, Sharps newer series, etc have made huge improvements even though they do not have the Black level of a CRT/plasma but they come close after calibration. Plasmas start around the 42' range and prices for 1080p sets climb even higher. What do you expect all of those people looking for a slightly under 42' 1080p set with multiple connections (dvr, OTA, dvi for computer use, multiple HDMI etc) to go with? Not to mention tons of people who need a LCD around the 26-32' range on their desk for simultaneous PC/PS3/DVR?etc usage. All of this is coming from someone who has a 1080p plasma, 1080p LCD, and CRT in their household. So believe me when I say the majority of your post is bullshi*.

I laugh at snobs like you who try to sound knowledgeable and come here and post laughable nonsense. Go take a look at the AVS forums, you might learn a thing or two from people who actually have the equipment and can make realistic comparisons.

Now now now, because you might not agree with someone’s point of view you can’t just generalize and call them a douche. First, it’s bad form and second it violates forum rules.

The argument between 720/760/p and 1080p is all but moot for several reasons. The main reason has to do with the fact that movies are still and probably will be shot on film for a very long time. From there the film is scanned into digital format and even with video noise reduction and all the nifty new processes in use today the end result can’t look better then the original. Because of this sometimes a higher end 1080p set will prove the garbage in garbage out scenario.

Then there is the reality that the HDMI cable (a device I love to hate) is permanently affixed into the HD spec. As such there is no way we will see that go obsolete without a total new format change. There are still way too many people who have no clue that near the end of the year their antenna on their 10 year old Sony simply won’t work anymore. Even though at some point they will be forced through marketing to buy a digital TV they aren’t / won’t be happy about it. The educational process isn’t moving along at a pace that will keep up with change.

By the way, look for one big change in the next couple of years, the removal of component cables from the back of your new set. Component cables are much easier to manipulate to capture video; HDMI was created solely to stop all digital capture. Of course that won’t happen, but then I don’t pretend to speak for folks that invented it.:)

[Kyle_Bennett]

Damn you guys sit way closer than I ever could. I see pixels that close.

[piscian18]

Pass. I have a 4 year old Hitachi F500 57" rear projection HD cart. I wont get plasma because of the heat, power use, life span, cost. I wont get LCD because I sit about 8 ft away and I can still see the pixels. My TV by all accounts is still a perfect solution for average use. My situation is also a bit complex because everything I watch currently is through a HTPC. In my case an xbox. Eventually Id like to switch to my Ps3 but I want to be able to copy blue ray quality video onto it. So what this amounts to is 10+ terrabyte storage drives being affordable enough that I can throw one in my Ps3 or whatever Hi-def capable mediacenter I have at that time. Not sure if that makes sense to you but thats my situation.

[kumquat]

Fact is that the only 1080p content in existence is Blu-Ray and HD DVD discs.

[brentsg]

okay, so what about people that absolutely want the best in picture resolution say with something like Blu-Ray DVD movies? surely you can't expect to gain the most from those DVDs on a non 1080p TV right?

I mean come on, let's face it. it's pretty safe to assume that the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war has ended with BD being the winner. so don't you think that the majority of the population is going to want to have a TV that's actually capable of viewing the full resolution of Blu-Ray like it was intended?

I had the 5080 (768p) and 5010 (1080p) Pioneer Kuros side by side in my home, 20/20 vision, 8’ viewing distance. Both displays were calibrated as nicely as I could get them without professional assistance. Feeding both Blu-Ray content via HDMI at 1080p, and in MOST cases it was difficult to tell the difference between the displays. If I moved to 6’ then the difference was obvious and I was staring at SDE on the 5080. Likewise if I moved back another foot or two (9’-10’) it became impossible to see the difference between the two displays with any content.

Saying you have to have 1080p to enjoy HD disk media in all its glory is just buying into the marketing unless you are going to sit close enough to appreciate the additional resolution. It’s a matter of viewing distance and nothing more.

You can make the argument that having to process the 1080p source down to 768p is going to introduce some noise or errors, but realistically the processing is so good that a viewer won’t see anything at a normal viewing distance.

Basically if as you said “you absolutely want the best in picture resolution” then this whole argument is moot. If that’s where you stand then there is a good chance you are willing to pay for something that many people will discern little to no benefit from. Sure, you “have the best” but in many cases you’re paying a premium for peace of mind. To your question about the majority of people wanting “a TV that's actually capable of viewing the full resolution of Blu-Ray like it was intended”, they’d better be willing to sit pretty darn close to that 1080p display if they wish to appreciate every bit of that detail.

Basically all I’m saying is that buying 1080p has nothing to do with being a sophisticated buyer. It has everything to do with viewing distance, quality of vision, excellent marketing, and how much extra money you have to burn.

[ozziegn]

^ well, all I'm saying is this. I would (or will) consider buying a 720p Elite Plasma if and when the day ever comes that it looks as good or better than what my 46" XBR4 does while watching a movie like Spiderman 3 on BD. the amount of detail that Spiderman 3 has on my 46" XBR4 on BD is insane.

until then, I can only sit back and watch other peoples' Elites and say, "yeah, your TV looks cool." and be nice about it. :p

[kumquat]

I'd rather have a 720p Pioneer Elite than any other brand of 1080p plasma on the market.

Anyone honestly disagree?

[seemlessthunder]

^ well, all I'm saying is this. I would (or will) consider buying a 720p Elite Plasma if and when the day ever comes that it looks as good or better than what my 46" XBR4 does while watching a movie like Spiderman 3 on BD. the amount of detail that Spiderman 3 has on my 46" XBR4 on BD is insane.

until then, I can only sit back and watch other peoples' Elites and say, "yeah, your TV looks cool." and be nice about it. :p

In other words, you spent a whole lot of mooola on a xbr4 and now you're suffering from what I call "extreme self-justification" where you pretend that no other display can perform as well as it. A quick review of your display acknowledges that the blacks can't match high end plasma levels (such as the PE's) and that motion blur introduces artifacts. How is that better than a plasma without those issues? You would think that if you're eyes are so good to discern such a dramatic difference in quality without even seeing the PE's, you'd be annoyed by the artifacts your set is experiencing in films.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-kdl-46xbr4/4505-6482_7-32468193.html?tag=pdtl-list

[kumquat]

I think it's supremely funny that anyone has the audacity to say that their LCD television is so much better than a Pioneer Elite that they have to "be nice" to Elite owners as some sort of consolation.

[Kyle_Bennett]

I think this has played out.