View Full Version : COMCAST Offers 4.0MB download for $52.99 an month!!!
Marcdaddy
01-01-2004, 02:28 PM
I just ordered it to upgrade my service from 1.5KDown and 256K Up to 4.0M Down and 384K Up at a price of $52.99 a month and a one time fee of $99.00 which includes a Wireless MODEM/ROUTER and 2 wireless cards heres the order URL from them
http://homenetworking.comcast.net/pricing.asp
ReconSniper
01-01-2004, 02:38 PM
anyone know if Comcast is available in Florida?
Marcdaddy
01-01-2004, 02:41 PM
Go to the URL link and goto check availabilty in your area and it will tell you, fo the seach by zip code.
Serapis
01-01-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Marcdaddy
1.5KDown and 256K Up
I think you mean 1.5MB Down / 256K Up
ReconSniper
01-01-2004, 02:43 PM
it says the host is down and cant complete the search
Edit: I just called them, and they dont offer service in my area. Which sucks, since Im paying 44.95 for 2down and 384 up
Marcdaddy
01-01-2004, 02:47 PM
Recon i just clicked the url and it worked lol.
finalgt
01-01-2004, 03:06 PM
Ugh, not available in my area. Fucking Adelphia sucks, they took over the cable in my town about 8 years back and haven't done ANYTHING as far as laying cable is concerned. The shitty part is Cablevision was here before, and they were getting ready to roll out their cable service here. Looks like I'm stuck paying $60 a month for less features and a 1.2 megabit download from stupid, lame overcharging Speakeasy. Yaaay.
fuck you adelphia
Archer75
01-01-2004, 04:00 PM
I already pay that for comcast for 1.5mhps down and 256kbps up.
They are supposed to be increasing everyones download speed to 3mbps for free. Got a newsletter telling me they were doing this, and others have already been given the new speed.
But what I really want is more upload speed. I could careless about download.
jpmkm
01-01-2004, 04:02 PM
That should be 4M/second, which is a rate. When I read the title I was thinking, "How would only being able to download 4 megs in a month be anything close to a hot deal?" lol.
MrSteel74
01-01-2004, 04:07 PM
There's a hitch in this deal you have to have Comcast Cable as well to get $52.95 otherwise it's $67.95.
"$52.95 Comcast Cable Video customers
Prices vary for non-Comcast Cable video customers."
So the deal may not be that hot.
Marcdaddy
01-01-2004, 04:14 PM
I woulda paid $100 a month for 4M download, also if you have a router and modem they will waive the setup fee, which i just did after i got off of the phone with a tech. I download so much from the newsgroups it sick, since i bought my new house and moved 6 months ago my download meter shows ive downloaded 568GIGS worth of crap LOL!
novaflare
01-01-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Marcdaddy
I woulda paid $100 a month for 4M download, also if you have a router and modem they will waive the setup fee, which i just did after i got off of the phone with a tech. I download so much from the newsgroups it sick, since i bought my new house and moved 6 months ago my download meter shows ive downloaded 568GIGS worth of crap LOL!
Not lol on comcast downloading more than around 50 or 60 gigs can get your account suspended has been a thread on dslreports forums where some 20 users who posted in the forums have had their accounts suspended. Comcast limits how much you can download in a given month but they dont tell you what the limit is no one knows if its 50 60 70 etc gigs. and you avraged 95 gigs or so per month some dled around 80 gigs and got the letter telling them their account would be suspended etc.
DMystikaLD
01-01-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by novaflare
Not lol on comcast downloading more than around 50 or 60 gigs can get your account suspended has been a thread on dslreports forums where some 20 users who posted in the forums have had their accounts suspended. Comcast limits how much you can download in a given month but they dont tell you what the limit is no one knows if its 50 60 70 etc gigs. and you avraged 95 gigs or so per month some dled around 80 gigs and got the letter telling them their account would be suspended etc.
Man you really like making it hard for people to read what you're saying. Please for god sakes try to type sentences.
badjoke
01-01-2004, 04:58 PM
myparents rsplittin up so im gettinga new house and imgettingcomcast and i cant wait hell ya
sigmend
01-01-2004, 05:21 PM
You can just buy the 1.5Mb down, comcast is upgrading the whole US to 3Mb down on their standard package.
Marcdaddy
01-01-2004, 06:53 PM
WELL Mystikal what can i say other then i havnt gotten any letter and i have even talked with comcast representives who told me that they were only targeting people in congested areas, i live in a brand new neighborhood with like 8 houses in it, so i highly doubt im gonna get a letter anytime soon. Furthermore comcast is going to start offering people to watch streaming movies in real time to there PC, So what are they gonna do ban everyone for sukking up bandwith. Simply its just the luck of the draw and i highly doubt anything is gonna be done about it. Besides i can always get DSL if it happened.
blackspawn
01-02-2004, 12:08 AM
hmm interesting...im currently paying $99 a month for comcast pro which seems equivalent to the home network thing posted (i also get 4mbps and 5 static ips)...it looks like this still splits one ip though, anyone know off hand? it doesnt say anything about more ips
(btw, the $99 is split between 5 people so we dont really care about the price much, especailly seeing that next to our tuition cost, few dollars is petty cash :oP )
Marcdaddy
01-02-2004, 12:32 AM
I cant remember off hand if it is just one static IP, im gonna call them tomorrow and find out though for sure.
Originally posted by badjoke
myparents rsplittin up so im gettinga new house and imgettingcomcast and i cant wait hell ya
:eek: :confused:
What the hell happened to today's young?
Priorities man, PRIORITIES!
disreguard this if you are looking for the silver lining.:D
They've already switched over to 3M/sec here in Californa, just became available in my neighborhood last month. $42.95/month for comcast customers (which i am) and only $19.95 for the first 3 months. Goodbye SBC DSL, Hello COMCAST!!:D I'm ordering this weekend:D
Makes me glad I use Cox and get 4.5Mbit down and 384K up as their "basic" service for 29.99 a month :cool:
kooshball
01-02-2004, 03:05 PM
ok you need to get your BYTES and bits right.
8bits = 1 byte
kb=kilobits
kB=kilobytes
4.0MB=4.0megaBYTES/SECOND...which got me all excited...
but from the page it's actually
4.0Mbps
so..
not worth my money, :)
i get 3.0mbps at around 40$ with roadrunner
koosh
ozziegn
01-02-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by ReconSniper
anyone know if Comcast is available in Florida?
uhh yes, they most certainly are in FL.
also, there really isnt all that much to talk about because Comcast already upped our D/L and U/L from 1.5MBs/128K to 3.5MBs/384 a while back ago FOR FREE. :cool:
that being that, me paying an extra $13 for an extra .5MB speed would hardly be worth it.
ozziegn
01-02-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by ReconSniper
it says the host is down and cant complete the search
Edit: I just called them, and they dont offer service in my area. Which sucks, since Im paying 44.95 for 2down and 384 up
you live in Tampa and they dont service your area? :confused:
you either must:
A. be in some sort of boonies area of Tampa (if there is such an area in Tampa)
or
B. have Bright House (Time Warner) as your local cable company
-BTW, I live in Lake County which is about 30 minutes N. of Orlando and we have Comcast over here and their service is pretty good 98% of the time.
Spetsnaz Op
01-02-2004, 08:19 PM
why would you pay 5 bucks a month to rent a router?
freecableguy
01-02-2004, 08:27 PM
Because you have to. I just spent over 2 hours on the phone with Comcast arguing over the requirements of Comcast Home Networking....here are the rules:
1) You WILL use Comcast equipment
2) Some asshole from Comcast WILL come out to your house to set you YOUR network with THEIR equipement
3) If you don't like that you can go fuck yourself
That's what I learned. What a bunch of fucking assholes. Comcast did a complete 180 degree turn going from 'home networking is not supported in any way' to 'if you want 4Mbps you have to use our equipement the way we say'
FUCK THAT. No one touches my setup except ME. NO ONE tells me what equipment I can and can not run. Oh yeah, the PRO speeds of 3.8Mbps down 384Kbps up are not available anymore either, except to those that are gandfathered in at $99/month. So if you want the Home Networking at 4Mbps down 384Kbps up be prepared to deal with these assholes. No thanks. I'll just wait until the bump to 3Mbps down and 384Kbps up. 4 would have been nice though...
ReconSniper
01-02-2004, 11:06 PM
I live in tampa and no where close to the boonies. Brighthouse is my cable company, and is all of tampas. I called comcast and they said they do not service the Tampabay area.
ozziegn
01-03-2004, 10:30 AM
so you have Bright House in your area, huh?
then that explains it. I have NEVER seen any markets that have two (or more) cable companies in the same area which is BS because isnt that the same as a monopoly?
ReconSniper
01-03-2004, 10:38 AM
well brighthouse doest offer that speed under 150$ month. So they cant even compete with that price. Biz class is a rip to due to the same speed at double the cost.
Marcdaddy
01-03-2004, 01:32 PM
Ditto, it makes you wonder how much money these companys are truely making, probably making it hand over fist id say.
kronchev
01-03-2004, 01:48 PM
I cant WAIT until they update the lines (soon!) since we're paying some shitty amount a month for about 1meg down and literally 20k up
I cant even host internet games :9
Stealth5325
01-03-2004, 02:42 PM
I'm not totally sure that this is correct for all the comcast upgrade areas, but it's only 256k up guys. Whomever promised 384 should probably go do a speed test and check that claim. I'm fairly sure it'll be 256. I've looked at my modem's config file, and that's all I'm getting. While the home networking upgrade is a 384 up, the regular 1.5-3.0 tranisition was only a downstream change. Not that this will matter to any normal person, but the hardcore gamers among us would have liked a 33% reduction in our ping time, and we'll have to pay for home networking (and thus have some shmuck that knows far less than we do come touch our networks) to do it. Sux.
kronchev
01-03-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Stealth5325
I'm not totally sure that this is correct for all the comcast upgrade areas, but it's only 256k up guys. Whomever promised 384 should probably go do a speed test and check that claim. I'm fairly sure it'll be 256. I've looked at my modem's config file, and that's all I'm getting. While the home networking upgrade is a 384 up, the regular 1.5-3.0 tranisition was only a downstream change. Not that this will matter to any normal person, but the hardcore gamers among us would have liked a 33% reduction in our ping time, and we'll have to pay for home networking (and thus have some shmuck that knows far less than we do come touch our networks) to do it. Sux.
higher transfer rates arent lower ping times
kenshinjdm
01-03-2004, 04:23 PM
i dont have comcast in my area.....
i pay 40 a month for 2mb down....i forget what up is..
thats a good price for 4mb...sucks! i cant get that
vbrtrmn
01-04-2004, 08:32 PM
COX has a monoply of consumer broadband in my area, unless I want to get satellite. I can't even get Verizon DSL.
Stealth5325
01-04-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by kronchev
higher transfer rates arent lower ping times
I must respectfully disagree. As a network engineer/administrator, and as an experienced online gamer, the upstream bandwidth and thus speed is the ONLY resonable determining factor that we have some control over when ti comes to ping times. Sure, congestion and load play a part, but if transfer rates had little impact on ping times, the 56k people would have the smae ping times as the 384k DSL people, when in fact they have almost 4X the ping, and that's on a very good dial up connection and a very poor DSL connection.
nas6034
01-05-2004, 12:25 AM
is this 4megabytes or 4megabits? cause I have Earthlink Cable and at night times I get 400-600kb download, or else I usually get about 350kb download, and my upload is 48kb, so its not bad for 44.95/mo
jpmkm
01-05-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Stealth5325
I must respectfully disagree. As a network engineer/administrator, and as an experienced online gamer, the upstream bandwidth and thus speed is the ONLY resonable determining factor that we have some control over when ti comes to ping times. Sure, congestion and load play a part, but if transfer rates had little impact on ping times, the 56k people would have the smae ping times as the 384k DSL people, when in fact they have almost 4X the ping, and that's on a very good dial up connection and a very poor DSL connection.
I disagree. Satellite internet can be quite fast, but it has very high latency and therefore very high pings due to the distance the signals have to travel. Sending a ping and getting a reply simply doesn't use a whole lot of bandwidth, so it's not a very good indicator of connection speed.
ReconSniper
01-05-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by nas6034
is this 4megabytes or 4megabits? cause I have Earthlink Cable and at night times I get 400-600kb download, or else I usually get about 350kb download, and my upload is 48kb, so its not bad for 44.95/mo
Where do you live? Just wondering because in my area I can get earthlink cable, AOL cable, or Roadrunner, and it is all the same exact thing, only I have to sign into the ELN or AOL network with those two and with RR I just am always on. I was just wondering since it is the exact same thing that if the speeds are going to be any different?
Stealth5325
01-05-2004, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by jpmkm
I disagree. Satellite internet can be quite fast, but it has very high latency and therefore very high pings due to the distance the signals have to travel. Sending a ping and getting a reply simply doesn't use a whole lot of bandwidth, so it's not a very good indicator of connection speed.
All wireless forms of communication have a very high signal loss. thus, they have to do more checking to make sure the packets have arrived in sequence and are undamaged. This causes the latency in satellite communications, yet does not affect the overall download speed as much, thus the explanation.
I ordered my comcast cable internet on saturday, it'll be all ready to go on Tuesday when they remove the filter. Seriously though, why would anyone want to stay with DSL anymore. I've been a long time DSL consumer. It was just always the way to go, but now DSL can't even compare to what Cable has to offer. Cable is twice as fast and nearly half the price of my DSL line. Just got a great deal through Circuit City. They hooked me up with a free modem after rebates, along with an extra $100 MIR just for activating my account, as well as $19.95 for the first 3 months of service and $42.95 after that. I'd definately a happy customer, as long as it all work on Tuesday when they say it will. :D
Raedon
01-05-2004, 01:03 PM
Comcast is the worst Cable modem provider.. They suspend heavy bandwidth users without pointing to anything in the agreement that says, "no more then 60gig in a 30 day period."
Road runner has been the best I've used.. uncapped (that was in the 90's.. no idea if they do that now)
the cable provider I use now, Cablelynx, has 1.5mbit/1.0mbit for $44.. and if you don't need it they have a $19.99 a month cable service that is 256/256..
Lol, does anyone have good DSL? All I ever hear is "DSL in my area blows"
war_child
01-05-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Raedon
Comcast is the worst Cable modem provider.. They suspend heavy bandwidth users without pointing to anything in the agreement that says, "no more then 60gig in a 30 day period."
Road runner has been the best I've used.. uncapped (that was in the 90's.. no idea if they do that now)
the cable provider I use now, Cablelynx, has 1.5mbit/1.0mbit for $44.. and if you don't need it they have a $19.99 a month cable service that is 256/256..
Lol, does anyone have good DSL? All I ever hear is "DSL in my area blows"
I have great DSL service from a local provider. I'm currently at 768/384.
Oh almost forgot; I always get those speeds "never fails"
nas6034
01-05-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by ReconSniper
Where do you live? Just wondering because in my area I can get earthlink cable, AOL cable, or Roadrunner, and it is all the same exact thing, only I have to sign into the ELN or AOL network with those two and with RR I just am always on. I was just wondering since it is the exact same thing that if the speeds are going to be any different?
I live in NYC, and also I have earthlink cable provided by time warner and I dont need to sign on to any Earthlink network, im always connected to it, i also had aol cable, it was capped at 190kb so i killed it, then i signed up for road runner but it was 2 much money, now i have Earthlink, the Download speeds are great, their newsgroup servers have a retention rate for files for 7days, and articles for 30days. and you max out on download from the newsgroup servers, the limit is 5gigs per month per email address, so once u reach the limit u delete that email make a new one and use it and u can dl at max speed again, u can have 10email accts at any given time, if u reach the 5gigs they cap the download on the newsgroups to 30kb download. so making new emails is a little loop.
Defc0n 6
01-05-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Stealth5325
I'm not totally sure that this is correct for all the comcast upgrade areas, but it's only 256k up guys. Whomever promised 384 should probably go do a speed test and check that claim. I'm fairly sure it'll be 256. I've looked at my modem's config file, and that's all I'm getting. While the home networking upgrade is a 384 up, the regular 1.5-3.0 tranisition was only a downstream change. Not that this will matter to any normal person, but the hardcore gamers among us would have liked a 33% reduction in our ping time, and we'll have to pay for home networking (and thus have some shmuck that knows far less than we do come touch our networks) to do it. Sux.
Yep, it is only a downsteam upgrade. I just called them and they said that by first querter, everyone should have a 3.0 download, but upload shoudl be same. I'm :) and :( at the same time :p
This comcast cable is awesome. I just got it hooked up this afternoon and i've been getting upwards to 400K. It's pretty awesome. So far i'm happy after using my 1.5 mbps SBC DSL for so long. This was a much needed upgrade :D About that 60gig/month thing, i've never heard anyone else complain about it, we'll see if anything happens, but i doubt it
leedogg
01-07-2004, 04:25 AM
Sent them an email asking for a speed/price breakdown and they sent me the following...which didnt contain the download speeds (anybody know what the advertised down/up is?)
Pricing Information*
Basic Service $17.47
Preferred Service $26.67
Combined Basic/Preferred $44.14
Analog converter $1.75
Digital converter $1.75
HDTV converter $5.00
Premium channels:
HBO $15.95
Cinemax/Showtime/The Movie Channel/STARZ) $12.95 each
RTN/TV Asia/ZEE TV USA/WKTV) $15.95 each
Digital Classic $9.95
Digital Plus $14.95
Installation Fees:
Unwired Home Installation $53.21
Prewired Outlet Installation $35.19
Additional Outlet (unwired) $23.36
Additional Outlet (prewired) $16.98
Additional Outlet (separate trip) $37.23
HDTV Installation $49.00
High Speed Internet Professional Installation $99.00
Modem Purchase (with or without Self-Install Kit) $49.00
Trip Charge $15.00
Hourly Service Charge $28.14
Reconnect/Restart $33.75
Change of Service (non-addressable)
Change of Service (addressable)
Cable High Speed Internet Service:
w/Cable Service $42.95
w/out Cable Service $57.95
Comcast Pro High Speed Internet Service $95.00
Monthly modem rental $3.00
Additional IP (each) $6.95
Other Charges:
Channel Guide Magazine $2.95
Unreturned Modem $139.00
Unreturned Digital Converter $450.00
Unreturned Converter (Non Digital) $125.00
Change of Account Status $1.99
Mini Amplifier for Multiple Outlets $45.78
Telecaption for Hearing Impaired $146.31
Comcast C.H.S.I. Self Installation Kit Shipping and Handling $9.95
A/B Switch $3.05
Late Fee $4.00
FCC Regulatory User Fee $.04
PEG/I-Net Grant Fee(not applicable in City of Gaithersburg) $1.25
*Rates exclude franchise and FCC fees and taxes. Rates subject to change.
damnit. Looks like its $95 for me...
Cyclone187
01-07-2004, 03:22 PM
:P they ugpraded my service to 4mbps/384kbps at no extra charge. I'm still paying $40! haha
Anthony.L
01-08-2004, 07:04 AM
WHOA, this is available in my neighborhood. Looks like I will be calling Comcast. I could live with 384k upload, 128k wouldn't be doable. Right now I have a 1mb/1mb DSL and paying $88 per month so this is a WAY better deal. :D
cosmos
01-08-2004, 05:40 PM
Eh... Screw comcast. At first I was an @home customer... then attbi... now comcast. Comcast is by far the worst of the three. Whenever there's an outage they blame me but yet it magically comes back up later without me doing anything to my equip. I'm also tired of companies outsourcing customer service to India. I actually like to talk to people I can understand and don't have an tough accent.
I recently ditched comcast for a local DSL company. The speeds aren't as good but right now I'd rather be doing business with a better company. Oh ya... I went Satellite for TV too...
I was just surprised...I was a customer for 5+ years but they didn't care...
MooCow
01-08-2004, 11:12 PM
For the amount we have been paying (around $40 a mo.) I expect more than just some lame ass 30kbps upload rate :rolleyes:
Thats almost as slow as ISDN for fucking shit's sake. The download rate was improved from 225kbps to 400kbps in my area, which is good, but I would have loved that if I had that for the past three fucking years.
BangItOut
01-09-2004, 01:42 AM
please remember that there is MegaBits and MegaBytes!
I and Y
4 Megabits/s = 500 kilobytes =500KB/s half a meg of true file size.
the now older offrerings of 1.5 Megabits/s for DSL is really = 187.5 Kilobytes or 187KB/s of true file size.
now, i get 1.2 Megabytes per second! (cablevision NY)
that means in So-Cal language: 9.6Megabits or Mbit/s
for 29.99 the first 6 months then its 39.99.
so for all New Yorkes: enjoy the party!
(other people pay for this like $200-$300 a month.) its because cablevision wants to lure customers away from SLOW DSL, verizon that they do this).
Cable/modem beats DSL anytime!!! (at least in NY)
blackspawn
01-09-2004, 05:53 AM
:eek: i think i want to move to ny!!! im still stuck on 56k at home...dsl, cable, all that end 1 block away from me :( pisses me off...comcast put a thing on my door a couple times over the past year "we are upgrading your services so you can have digital cable and high speed internet!!" i call to find out when itll be done..."by the end of next month!" oh i was excited! that time came, called "itll be done in about one more month", called again in a month, "we don't have your area as listed for having new lines installed...soonest possible time would be about a year" ahhhhhhhhhhhh! they were teasing me :( we still continue to get the upgrading lines things on our doors now and then...im considering going with starband satellite...only 40 a month (compared to like 80-100month other places)...it only gets 40KB/s download and about 4-5KB/s up...but better than 56k...and not $100 a month lol
-side note about gaming pings...upload is where most of your ping comes from, generally download is always sufficient (excluding 56ks here), but the BIGGEST factors in your ping are
1)Distance from server
2)Route signal travels to get to that server
damn kids...you would think traveling thousands of miles in 2 tenths of a second (me on dialup) would be sufficient...demands!! sheesh
im tired...i think i should stop blabbing now
hocplaya
01-09-2004, 07:35 PM
not a fan of comcast.........
http://nashuabmx.org/comcast.jpg
Decent pricing but sure as hell not reliable, atleast in my area of southern New Hampshire.
Cele-CT
01-10-2004, 04:59 PM
yea , got my letter today in the mail about my BW usage. Loved mediaone/roadrunner , att was not that bad , but comcast just really messed it all up. I like to download at 420-430K , but what can we do with it when you get a letter about your download usage.
Bender_Unit_22
01-10-2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Cele-CT
but what can we do with it when you get a letter about your download usage.
maybe not download 60 gigs worth of porn a month
don't abuse it and you won't have a problem
bigmerv
01-10-2004, 10:58 PM
I got the same letter from comcast this month, and I assure you, I DO NOT abuse my bandwidth
Marcdaddy
01-10-2004, 11:58 PM
Guys i download over 100 Gig a month sometimes and i have never gotten any kind of letter, ive been at that pace for well over 2 years.
Bender_Unit_22
01-11-2004, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Marcdaddy
Guys i download over 100 Gig a month sometimes and i have never gotten any kind of letter, ive been at that pace for well over 2 years.
arrrrrrrrrgggggg matey
ZeroS
01-11-2004, 02:50 AM
I'm leaving comcast this week. For less $ money a month I'm getting faster internet.
Basic cable + 4000/500 only 69$ a month :D
Marcdaddy
01-11-2004, 11:19 AM
Your leaving COMCRAP what you getting DSL?
222 1/3 evil
01-12-2004, 01:46 PM
bear in mind that 4MB is actually megabit not megabyte so you'd be looking at approx 500k a sec... not too shabby..
Asazman
01-12-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by 222 1/3 evil
bear in mind that 4MB is actually megabit not megabyte so you'd be looking at approx 500k a sec... not too shabby..
good point, there's a lot of noobs out there.....
the MB in 4MB stands for megabit, not megabyte
blackspawn
01-13-2004, 05:13 AM
shouldnt it be written as mbps so there is no confusion???
pentup
01-13-2004, 07:41 AM
I had a dream that I got this... and then i woke up and realized that broadband STILL isnt available! grrr...
Bugalaman
01-13-2004, 02:00 PM
Shit, my comcast is currently at 3.5 Megabits. I'd like to see DSL be this fast for $42 a month. Comcast has been excelent for me, I've never even seen the internet down (for the past year anyways). Too bad my upload is 251k.
war_child
01-13-2004, 07:22 PM
Does comcast block corporate VPN? Think I might have read it somewhere
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