For those who think 754 is dead...
 

Well, I recently got my DFI Lan Party 250GB in the mail, and a AMD64 3000+.. Took the extra money I was gonna spend on going 939 and put that into my RAM budget and got pc3200 512mb corsair 2-2-2-5 XL XMS ram. WOW is all I can say... Im already to a STABLE 2.5 overclock... And the bios is so use friendly... this is really more mobo and RAM based sure, but now Im more than happy I went this route, as compared to others who are struggling with their MSI and ABit boards. Not having dual channel does stink, but when I was able to put this money into BETTER single channel RAM, the difference was more than clear.

Im not saying 939 is weak, but I do advise people to look into going 754... I'm already at 2.5 on air, and IM not finished yet, My goal is a stable 2.6. I wanted to post this because I noticed the negative connotation that has went with "buying a 754" lately, and wanted to dispell some of the belief that was necessarily inferior.

And no socket is future proof, not even your new 939s without nf4 and even without PCI-e slots.

wow, this is a very useful post n motivating. i already ghave a 3400(tryin to sell it so i can get 939), i thought of going with the DFi too but people are saying 754 is dead plus i own OCZ 512x2 dual plat. mem.

the timings on the mem is 2.3.2.5 (ocz el dual plat.)
CPU: A64 3400 1mb cache ClawHammer(2.2)
do u think i can hit 2.4 with the dfi board??

Socket 754 does not support dual channel.

Not that 754 is bad, just not as futureproof.

[QUOTE=Tenchi4U]Socket 754 does not support dual channel.

Not that 754 is bad, just not as futureproof.[/QUOTE]
if only it made a noticable difference, which it definately doesn't. The 754 still has the most mature motherboards and is cheaper than the 939's. Right now, i would go with the 754 until the NF4 comes out with PCI-E.

[QUOTE=ignitionxvi]if only it made a noticable difference, which it definately doesn't. The 754 still has the most mature motherboards and is cheaper than the 939's. Right now, i would go with the 754 until the NF4 comes out with PCI-E.[/QUOTE]

word, if I was buying new, id be hard pressed to NOT buy the DFI and a decent 754 newcastle. talk about bang per buck!!

I completely see where you are coming from. I’ve been trying to decide if I should go with socket 939 or 754. The main thing that attracts me to 754 is that DFI board and how detailed the bios is, and I know that if I want to upgrade to a pci-e graphics card in the future I will have to get a new motherboard anyway.

I’m leaning toward the DFI board right now simply because it is the best 754 board out there and it doesn’t seem like anything will be better. Whereas with the MSI board I know there will be better socket 939 boards coming out in the near future.

754 may not be as futureproof, but cmon, whats that anyways other than a marketing strategy? To remain 'futureproof'' you'd have to obtain a time machine. Also, consider this, you get a board without PCI-e, and then you're gonna have to go out and buy a PCI-e card, mobo, and cpu all at the same time. Whereas I got the best bang for my buck now, and then when nf4 comes out and is revised and running great, I upgrade and save myself a few hundred bucks.

You might obtain a 5% increase from Dual Channel, if that... Buy good RAM and run it dual channel when you DO decide to upgrde to 939 when nf4 is perfected. That 5% increase is more than up for by a 5% overclock and better RAM.

I just got my 754 setup a week ago, and Im so glad I did. The BIOS on it guys is incredible. My only regret would have to be not spending less on my car sound system, and buying watercooling to push this thing even further. Personally, Im an intermediate overclocker, and the genie bios pretty much taught me how to overclock.

Not to mention, who DOESNT love UV? ;-)

Also, if I am able to hit 2.5 (running at 2.4) on a 3000+ newcastle, Im sure the extra 200 MHz for you would be a breeze... and if you dont want that clawhammer anymore, Im sure i can take it off your hands for my newcastle + cash ;-)

People say "futureproof" like it means something. Most people don't do much in the way of incremental upgrades on systems - generally, mobo/CPU get upgraded together (and RAM, if need be). What does it matter if, by getting a 754 CPU, I don't have dual channel memory? When I finally get around to upgrading, all the 939 boards out now are going to be old & crusty and much better stuff will be available. I wouldn't be suprised if the 939 boards on the market now are going to have trouble upgrading to high-end CPUs coming on the market a year from now, anyways. I know that every upgrade I've done over the last 8 years has involved big jumps (socket8->socket370->socketA->socket754) and generally I wait until I can get between a 150% and 200% performance boost before upgrading. Are saying that there's a s939 board that'll support an Athlon64 5000 fully?

So, what kind of memory timings did you need to use in order to get it running at 2.5. I have a 3000+ and a DFI lanparty and I was just starting to overclock that thing. Also what multi are you using?

Having done the 939 route recently, I can completely attest to 754 being more mature.

I ordered on halloween. I just yesterday finally got a working motherboard.

I am quite happy with my s754 setup (save the annoying fact that my mobo doesn't have a PCI/AGP lock). I'll upgrade to another 754 mobo when the s754 mobo's with NF4 and PCI-Express come out. At lest I hope what I read in Maximum PC about 754 mobos with PCI-E
is true. I don't think they will have SLI, but that is okay by me.

[QUOTE=lopoetve]Having done the 939 route recently, I can completely attest to 754 being more mature.

I ordered on halloween. I just yesterday finally got a working motherboard.[/QUOTE]


What motherboards did you use? Try? End up with?

I wrapped my computer in tachyon particles to make it future proof, but I put on too many, and it traveled back to last week.

For AMD procs, dual channel basically doesn't matter. For P4's it is a live or die performance difference. (different design, different needs)

AMD = Low Latency
P4 = Bandwidth

==>Lazn

[QUOTE=2krazy]wow, this is a very useful post n motivating. i already ghave a 3400(tryin to sell it so i can get 939), i thought of going with the DFi too but people are saying 754 is dead plus i own OCZ 512x2 dual plat. mem.

the timings on the mem is 2.3.2.5 (ocz el dual plat.)
CPU: A64 3400 1mb cache ClawHammer(2.2)
do u think i can hit 2.4 with the dfi board??[/QUOTE]
Haha! I'm selling my 3200+ so I can get a 3700+ :p

wow thanks to the thread, i just ordered my DFI BOarD!! i was comtemplatin on 939 or 754!! dangg
i have 3400 Clawhammer do u guys think i can oc to 2.5 with my OCZ El Dual Plat. 512x2 mem(stock timing 2.3.2.5)?

you should get a mobile 3400+ and let us know how it works. ;)

[quote=xyoufailmex]Not to mention, who DOESNT love UV? ;-)[/quote]
i don't. i'm more of a blue light fan myself. take note:

[img]http://www.freewebs.com/ozzimark/comp.JPG[/img]

though that is with a blacklight on in the ceiling :D :D

but anyhow, back on topic. here's how i see it:
754 currently has better boards (namely the dfi lanparty) then the 939, however if you plan on upgrading your cpu within the next year or so, 939 would be the way to go, cause it appears that 754 is gonna be delegated to the semprons. no dual core, and atm, no 90nm.

[QUOTE=(cf)Eclipse]you should get a mobile 3400+ and let us know how it works. ;)


i don't. i'm more of a blue light fan myself. take note:

[url]http://www.freewebs.com/ozzimark/comp.JPG[/url]

though that is with a blacklight on in the ceiling :D :D

but anyhow, back on topic. here's how i see it:
754 currently has better boards (namely the dfi lanparty) then the 939, however if you plan on upgrading your cpu within the next year or so, 939 would be the way to go, cause it appears that 754 is gonna be delegated to the semprons. no dual core, and atm, no 90nm.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm getting a 3700+ DTR. :p

[QUOTE=Dallows]What motherboards did you use? Try? End up with?[/QUOTE]

Ordered Abit AV8, had one with wrong bios. Ordered Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra-939, found that they lied about DDR400 support, DC support, etc (worst board I've EVER used, will NEVER use gigabyte again), RMAed Abit and will use it soon. Done some tests, and it's great :)

I have an asus A8V socket 939. and I compared it with a few socket 754 boards out htere, and it WIPES THEM OUT OF THE WATER! Ive used asus for a long time. Ive had very good experiance with them. and I can get my AMD 64 4000+ to 2.6GHz stable on air but it overheats alittle, so I keep it on stock because I dont need all that power.

But Ive built a number of socket 753 and socket 939 systems and I have to say socket 939 is great. and fast as hell with some dual channel memory.

754's kick total ass...
i'm running an Asus K8V-b, 1Gb PC2700 VALUE RAM, and hit 2.4Ghz perfectly stable.
I also have a clawhammer, either way 754's are more mature, and still kick ass.
s939's are cool and all...but they're still pricey.....a good 754 system is a bit cheaper and with some damn good performance, and still enough to scare the bejesus out of some 4Ghz P4's....heh

Im not saying socket 754 is bad.. Ive built at least 2 and they are both GREAT systems.
But I like socket 939 just for teh fact of dual channel. and by the way the EVP technology IT REALLY WORKS! I was getting this file from a freind and then when I recived the file and opened it the process was instatly stoped! it took PC-cillin a while to catch up with the EVP and then PCcllin poped up and sayed Virus quarentined.

but I like socket 39 and socket 754 as long as its an AMD 64 :)

am i the only one that doesnt see that big of a price difference between 754 and 939?

[QUOTE=pandora's box]am i the only one that doesnt see that big of a price difference between 754 and 939?[/QUOTE]

QFT. Why not pay just a few bucks more for an upgrade path up to at least FX-57/4200+ and dual core on 939, instead of stopping at 3700+ with a 754?

:confused:

I've heard that they might only go to 3.0-3.2ghz and after that change the socket again for the duel core. Which I could see because there ahead of Intel by a good deal and are most likely not to worried about speed increases. So I really don't think its going to matter if its 754 or 939 in the end you'll have to upgrade to a new cpu/mb.

754s are still a great OC solution that is probably the cheapest way to go and I think you will see we have written more than a few favorable articles about them in the last year. As for being "future proof", I would suggest that you will never get much more performance out of a 754 as you can get today unless we are looking WAY down the road and Semprons have scaled to over 3GHz.

[QUOTE=nVmatrix]I've heard that they might only go to 3.0-3.2ghz and after that change the socket again for the duel core. Which I could see because there ahead of Intel by a good deal and are most likely not to worried about speed increases. So I really don't think its going to matter if its 754 or 939 in the end you'll have to upgrade to a new cpu/mb.[/QUOTE]
dual core only needs a bios update, amd seems to be going to great lengths to make sure that dual core will be able to go into socket 939 without making people replace their mobo's

[QUOTE=(cf)Eclipse]dual core only needs a bios update, amd seems to be going to great lengths to make sure that dual core will be able to go into socket 939 without making people replace their mobo's[/QUOTE]

Yes, I heard that too. But then again I heard that they will change it to a higher pin (941-942) thinking power issues.

[url]http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20108[/url]

[QUOTE=(cf)Eclipse]dual core only needs a bios update, amd seems to be going to great lengths to make sure that dual core will be able to go into socket 939 without making people replace their mobo's[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.overclockers.com/articles1156/[/url]

==>Lazn

people say 754 is the cheapest way to do, but be honest 939 chips are cheaper nowadays lol..

amd 64 3000+ 754: 149 at newegg

[url]http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-425&depa=0[/url]

amd 64 3000+ 939: 155 at newegg

[url]http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-499&depa=0[/url]

msi k8n neo platinum 754: 101 at newegg

[url]http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-457&depa=0[/url]

msi k8n neo 2 platinum 939: 139.50 at newegg

[url]http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0[/url]


so the price difference is no longer there. 754 is not worth it when for like 40 bucks more you can go 939. if your going to complain over 40 bucks, you obviously dont have the cash to upgrade at all.

[QUOTE=nVmatrix]Yes, I heard that too. But then again I heard that they will change it to a higher pin (941-942) thinking power issues.

[url]http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20108[/url][/QUOTE]
seriously. think about that for a moment. what good would an extra 2 or 3 pins do for power problems if you already have 939? almost nothing actually. plus, what power problems? the 90nm is runinng at much lower power levels than the 130nm is. take things from inquirer with a small grain of salt. hehe


[QUOTE=Lazn_Work][url]http://www.overclockers.com/articles1156/[/url]

==>Lazn[/QUOTE]
i don't see anything in there that disagrees with what i have said ;)

Granted the DFI is a nice board, though s939 has other advantages that have not been mentioned in this thread

1) SSE3 (next stepping will have it)
2) 90nm vs 130nm. Statistically the top overclock for a 90nm core is higher then that of a 130nm core.
3) Duel Channel (0-6.5% performance increase)

When factoring price differences you must take other things into account. s939 boards seem to be slightly more exspensive. These can be compared 1 to 1.
Processors on the other hand the s939 varients are clocked 200mhz slower. So a 3000 s754 (2.0ghz) = 3200 s939 (2.0ghz) and so on. The flip side is that the 90nm s939 3000, 3200, and 3400(maybe its 3500) all overclock exstreemly well.

Reading thorugh this post, I would say the 754 is fine, if you already have it. But, if you are looking to build a new system, I would go 939 all the way. If you want to keep things cheap and already own a 754 system, that is a good way to go.

I would like to see what the SiSandra memory benchmark is on the 754 is versus the 939. On my AMD 64 3200 running at 2.75 GHz, it is close to 7500. The best I could do on my P4 3.2E was 5800 at 4.2GHz, so the memory bandwidth of the AMD 64 is superior to the Intel. I wonder what a 754 can do with single channel.

[QUOTE=HeavyH20]Reading thorugh this post, I would say the 754 is fine, if you already have it. But, if you are looking to build a new system, I would go 939 all the way. If you want to keep things cheap and already own a 754 system, that is a good way to go.

I would like to see what the SiSandra memory benchmark is on the 754 is versus the 939. On my AMD 64 3200 running at 2.75 GHz, it is close to 7500. The best I could do on my P4 3.2E was 5800 at 4.2GHz, so the memory bandwidth of the AMD 64 is superior to the Intel. I wonder what a 754 can do with single channel.[/QUOTE]

That is pretty bad for an Intel Dual Channel sytem (or was that single channel?)

Yes DC AMD systems have great bandwidth, but even my 533mhz FSB P4 got ~6000MB/S with PC2700 running at 166mhz. And a 800mhz FSB P4 should get more like 6400MB/S unoverclocked. (and even more overclocked, like your 4.2 was)

Edit: from what I am finding online, that is actually about right.. hmm I will have to check when I get home what I actually got.. I must be remembering wrong

==>Lazn

Sorry, realized I was flaming. Deleted.

[QUOTE=Kyle_Bennett]754s are still a great OC solution that is probably the cheapest way to go and I think you will see we have written more than a few favorable articles about them in the last year. As for being "future proof", I would suggest that you will never get much more performance out of a 754 as you can get today unless we are looking WAY down the road and Semprons have scaled to over 3GHz.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I'm on a crusade to prove to the world that s754 is not any worse than s939...

Long live the s754!! :D


[url]http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=13[/url]

I just dont see the performance difference between the s754 and s939. At least the prices for the s939 are dropping.

A good Chaintech VNF3-250 ($70@ newegg) and a 2800+ ($120@ newegg) can give you AthlonFX peformance for very cheap! The VNF3-250 is one helluva overclocker and with good cooling people are getting 2.4-2.6ghz o/c on air.

Looking at Anand's review I think its easy to see what is the best bang for the buck. ;)





FYI my pc is tying the AthlonFX-51 in all benchmarks and beating it in some due to my higher HTT. I just wish my mobo had an agp/pci lock like the VNF3 mobo does.... not to mention everyone I see with the VFN3 has 275mhz HTT or higher, alot people are getting well over 300mhz HTT amd the VFN3 allows up to 400mhz HTT!

EDIT:
Here is Anand's review of the VFN3.
[url]http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2063&p=4[/url]

754 still kick ass.....As for being future proof, my other computer has this cell processor that doubles in clock speed every 18 months.....with my organic gpu with self expanding pipelines... :D :cool: ;)

Running my 3400+ at 2.6 ghz and the temp hovers around 44c. I also Compared quite a few benchmarks and it performs somewere between a 3800+ and an FX-53. So I have to tell ya, I'm lovin the 754. FX-53 performance on the cheap is nothing to sneeze at :)

[QUOTE=Juan Sanchez]Running my 3400+ at 2.6 ghz and the temp hovers around 44c. I also Compared quite a few benchmarks and it performs somewere between a 3800+ and an FX-53. So I have to tell ya, I'm lovin the 754. FX-53 performance on the cheap is nothing to sneeze at :)[/QUOTE]
Tee-hee... wait till I get my hands on a 3700+ DTR... can you say "hallo 2.11vcore?" :eek: :D