First Timer Advice/Help

So I going to be building a new box, and although I wont be doing any OC, it will be run at 100% load 24/7 and will be quite the heat monster.

I will have 4 GTX295s, and 2x Xeon 5550's(=i7 920) all in one box.

I am think that maybe I should WC this rig, but im not sure where to even start as I have never looked into WC, I have been looking at parts online and I can tell that it can get expensive very quickly.

The thing though that I am most concerned about is leaks. Does this happen often, or can I set it up and let it run for year and it will be good.
I would prefer something that does not require a lot of maintenance, and im not sure where WC will provide that.

Also what are some good value Rads, and Waterblocks?

I'm a noob at WC, but I've been researching for a couple years now.

If you're very careful and leak test the heck out of it, and you don't really move your case much, I could see it running for a year. As far as maintenance, keep it running with Distilled water and some sort of silver kill coil with *no* other additives, and it will probably be relatively maintenance free as well.

I have no opinion on value blocks for the GPUs, but the Enzotech Sapphire is a great value price CPU block, and a great value RAD is the Swiftech MCR320-QP.

You don't mention what case will be housing all this gear, so that might help you decide if WC will work well for you too.

Originally Posted by nitrobass24

So I going to be building a new box, and although I wont be doing any OC, it will be run at 100% load 24/7 and will be quite the heat monster.

I will have 4 GTX295s, and 2x Xeon 5550's(=i7 920) all in one box.

I am think that maybe I should WC this rig, but im not sure where to even start as I have never looked into WC, I have been looking at parts online and I can tell that it can get expensive very quickly.

Yeah, expensive is an understatement, especially if you want the best materials.

Originally Posted by nitrobass24

The thing though that I am most concerned about is leaks. Does this happen often, or can I set it up and let it run for year and it will be good.
I would prefer something that does not require a lot of maintenance, and im not sure where WC will provide that.

When I had my desktop watercooled, it ran for a year straight with no leaks and no problems. Just make sure you plumb everything correctly and leak test before you put in with your system. From a performance standpoint, you should use either worm clamps or compression fittings to prevent leaking, as they work better than anything else.

Originally Posted by nitrobass24

Also what are some good value Rads, and Waterblocks?

The major difference with Rads is the amount of air you have to push through them. So while people say something like the HW Black Ice GTX is a "cheap" rad (personally, I think the fit and finish of them are just as good as many other more expensive rads) that doesn't perform well, it's only because they have a high fin density (fins per inch, FPI). Thus, you need to have some high speed fans, around 2000 rpm, to get the best out of that rad. Other rads, like the XSPC XS/Thermochill PA/Feser have lower FPI and are thicker to make up for the lower density. These larger rads perform the best, but you're looking at 3x the price. Comparatively though, you can get away with 1200 rpm fans for more quiet computing.

Personally, I feel that I run a different direction than most people here in suggesting Koolance products. I've had a great experience with them, but I know they command a price premium that's hard to justify since their performance is in line with other high end stuff. I don't know if they're Xeon compatible, but the best out CPU block out there would be the Copper Heatkiller 3.0. As far as a 295 block, the Heatkiller, Koolance, DD, Enzotech, EK, all perform around the same, as far as I know. Just keep in mind for that amount of hardware, you'll be looking at around 9x120 or 12x120 in rads to keep all that cool. So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

Originally Posted by crazjayz

So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

Not at all.
I would like to keep everything mounted internally though.
I dont want Rads and fans hanging off the side of the case.

Originally Posted by nitrobass24

Not at all.
I would like to keep everything mounted internally though.
I dont want Rads and fans hanging off the side of the case.

May I suggest then the Mountain Mods Acension case. It's pricey, but it's one of the few cases that you can fit all this hardware in, with internalized cooling, and still have some room to spare. Call them up for a custom 8-slot back since you'll need that for you 4x 295s.

Originally Posted by crazjayz

The major difference with Rads is the amount of air you have to push through them. So while people say something like the HW Black Ice GTX is a "cheap" rad (personally, I think the fit and finish of them are just as good as many other more expensive rads) that doesn't perform well, it's only because they have a high fin density (fins per inch, FPI). Thus, you need to have some high speed fans, around 2000 rpm, to get the best out of that rad. Other rads, like the XSPC XS/Thermochill PA/Feser have lower FPI and are thicker to make up for the lower density. These larger rads perform the best, but you're looking at 3x the price. Comparatively though, you can get away with 1200 rpm fans for more quiet computing.

Personally, I feel that I run a different direction than most people here in suggesting Koolance products. I've had a great experience with them, but I know they command a price premium that's hard to justify since their performance is in line with other high end stuff. I don't know if they're Xeon compatible, but the best out CPU block out there would be the Copper Heatkiller 3.0. As far as a 295 block, the Heatkiller, Koolance, DD, Enzotech, EK, all perform around the same, as far as I know. Just keep in mind for that amount of hardware, you'll be looking at around 9x120 or 12x120 in rads to keep all that cool. So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

HWLabs now has the SR1 series which is 9FPI. I love 'em. Upgraded from HWLabs GTX's. With the same fans(~1400rpm) the SR1's dropped my temps by over 5C on both idle and load.

Koolance is a joke... What reviews are you looking at that show their performance is 'in line' with other high end stuff? Koolance has always been a joke. They were just the first to do 'all in one' easy systems and charge a lot for them.

But yeah none of that really matters. The huge amount of surface area required to dissipate all the heat from a system like that is going to be crazy. 9-12x120 sounds about right.

Originally Posted by Zoson

Koolance is a joke... What reviews are you looking at that show their performance is 'in line' with other high end stuff? Koolance has always been a joke. They were just the first to do 'all in one' easy systems and charge a lot for them.

Thanks. I have been pressuring this subject.

I also see that people are starting to catch on to my Enzotech Sapphire raving

OP, I have a suggestion as far as your radiator goes.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/wamo2pro.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/waco2fansh.html

The MO-RA 2 Pro more than likely can handle your heatload with some decent speed fans. Problem is external placement. This is the only component you would have to have outside of your case, but It would prolly be easier to just get one big radiator than three 120.3 rads. Yes, you need the shroud or you can make your own.

the mo-ra 2 is very restrictive. I don't think a regular mcp655 pump can handle the radiator plus couple blocks with a decent flow. I'd get something else.

yeah well your going to need two pumps for his setup even if you go with x3 120.3 rads

Originally Posted by crazjayz

May I suggest then the Mountain Mods Acension case. It's pricey, but it's one of the few cases that you can fit all this hardware in, with internalized cooling, and still have some room to spare. Call them up for a custom 8-slot back since you'll need that for you 4x 295s.

he won't need 8 slots if he gets single pcb 295s - with fc blocks they'll only take up a single slot. will need two pumps though - 6 blocks, minimum 3 rads.

Originally Posted by lollerskater69

Thanks. I have been pressuring this subject.

Seriously, I can't stand people who say Koolance makes good products or that they perform well. They never offer up any proof. Just look at Koolance's track record and product history in comparison with a company like Swiftech. Koolance set themselves up for the reputation they have - which is that of a bunch of thieves trying to sell inferior products to people for higher prices than the actual performance products.

Originally Posted by lollerskater69

I also see that people are starting to catch on to my Enzotech Sapphire raving

Looks like a more restrictive Apogee GTZ...

Originally Posted by lollerskater69

OP, I have a suggestion as far as your radiator goes.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/wamo2pro.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/waco2fansh.html

The MO-RA 2 Pro more than likely can handle your heatload with some decent speed fans. Problem is external placement. This is the only component you would have to have outside of your case, but It would prolly be easier to just get one big radiator than three 120.3 rads. Yes, you need the shroud or you can make your own.

I don't think there's any case that could reasonably hold the number of rads he needs to use for this project.
I would personally suggest he get 3x HWLabs SR1-480's which would get him his 12x120 fans worth of surface area and do it with the least restriction possible.

Still gonna need two pumps though, or something like a hydrothruster.

Originally Posted by stainremover

he won't need 8 slots if he gets single pcb 295s - with fc blocks they'll only take up a single slot. will need two pumps though - 6 blocks, minimum 3 rads.

Kinda forgot about the video cards being watercooled when I posted that. Regardless, that case is VERY nice.

Originally Posted by Zoson

Seriously, I can't stand people who say Koolance makes good products or that they perform well. They never offer up any proof. Just look at Koolance's track record and product history in comparison with a company like Swiftech. Koolance set themselves up for the reputation they have - which is that of a bunch of thieves trying to sell inferior products to people for higher prices than the actual performance products.

Seriously? The Koolance GPU blocks are just as good as anything else from DangerDen, EK, or Enzotech. I think the HeatKiller block performs SLIGHTLY better, but for the most part all are relatively in line with each other. What's 2-5*C when you're cooling the card by 30*C? As far as CPU blocks to, I already said that it's know that the HK 3.0 block is the best of the business right now, but the Koolance isn't a bad alternative if you can't get the HK block. Hell, even Kyle uses the Koolance block, and has been using it, ever since testing methodology changed to the i7. I don't see complaints from him.

As far as rads go and whatnot, I NEVER suggested Koolance rads. Yeah, sure they my be changing from all aluminum to copper rads now, but their performance is abysmal. As for the rest of the loop, yeah everything else is overpriced, so you can get the pumps, fittings, etc somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Zoson

I don't think there's any case that could reasonably hold the number of rads he needs to use for this project.
I would personally suggest he get 3x HWLabs SR1-480's which would get him his 12x120 fans worth of surface area and do it with the least restriction possible.

Still gonna need two pumps though, or something like a hydrothruster.

I agree, as far as cases go, you're not going to find anything that can hold 12x120. The MM case can if you stack two 3x120s in the rear, or throw one across the top. That's why I suggested MountainMods because they're willing to make the modifications to get the case you want.

And the SR1s are a good call. Didn't know that HW had a low FPI rad.

Originally Posted by Zoson

Looks like a more restrictive Apogee GTZ...

Bro, the Sapphire has the best flow of all blocks.

Originally Posted by crazjayz

Seriously? The Koolance GPU blocks are just as good as anything else from DangerDen, EK, or Enzotech. I think the HeatKiller block performs SLIGHTLY better, but for the most part all are relatively in line with each other. What's 2-5*C when you're cooling the card by 30*C? As far as CPU blocks to, I already said that it's know that the HK 3.0 block is the best of the business right now, but the Koolance isn't a bad alternative if you can't get the HK block. Hell, even Kyle uses the Koolance block, and has been using it, ever since testing methodology changed to the i7. I don't see complaints from him.

As far as rads go and whatnot, I NEVER suggested Koolance rads. Yeah, sure they my be changing from all aluminum to copper rads now, but their performance is abysmal. As for the rest of the loop, yeah everything else is overpriced, so you can get the pumps, fittings, etc somewhere else.

Um the K350 is terrible for multi-block loops. It is so restrictive that it has shown to increase temperatures in a loop without additional pumping power. Why pay $80 for the K350 when the Enzotech Sapphire or Heatkiller LT before the same or better with less restriction.

Originally Posted by lollerskater69

Um the K350 is terrible for multi-block loops. It is so restrictive that it has shown to increase temperatures in a loop without additional pumping power. Why pay $80 for the K350 when the Enzotech Sapphire or Heatkiller LT before the same or better with less restriction.

I guess I didn't take restriction into account. Yeah, it is the most restrictive, so the HK 3.0 is the best buy in this case.

Originally Posted by crazjayz

I guess I didn't take restriction into account. Yeah, it is the most restrictive, so the HK 3.0 is the best buy in this case.

Well, the Enzotech Sapphire is just about as good at the HK and costs about 30 bucks less. If you aren't a freak about less than a degree's worth of performance I would just grab the Sapphire.

well you have to buy a 1366 adapter w/ the sapphire. i believe the hk3 comes with the adapter these days. just something to consider, i suppose.

Even with two pumps, having 2 cpu blocks, 4 gpu blocks and 3 big rads... He's going to do better with the Sapphire.

Also, newegg has the sapphire in a combo deal with the adapter, which essentially makes the adapter free:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.242363
So cheap I'm tempted to buy one just to try it out... Although I did just get a GTZ for cheap in the xoxide closing sale...
.....
At $35 I couldn't say no... Soon we'll have another GTZ vs Sapphire comparison.

+1 for three of crazyjay's recommendations. If you're going for for quad SLI, you are not the target customer for HWLabs. In fact, skip the Swiftech as well as the low end HWLabs and go right for the best high end rads such as Thermochill, XSPC RX or TFC. I'd go XSPC RX but Thermochill is also very good. (And no there's nothing wrong with low end budget rads ok, but let's target the appropriate equipment to the right people. The OP does not look like a budget customer and appears to be able to pay a premium for the best performing WC equipment even if it is overkill. And good quality high end rads are no where close to overkill like 4 x GTX295's anyway)

And yes you should get the heatkiller CPU block as it seems to be the flavour of the month as best performing CPU cooler. There is no other real choice if you just want the best and don't mind paying.

As for mountain mods, I really don't like their looks. But again, I'll have to agree that it is probably ideal for your needs, to house that monster PC of yours and several triple rads.

As for Koolance, I have tracked their progress, and they have actually listened to enthusiasts and really have improved significantly so you can't criticise them like before - but it's still more for people looking at paying a premium for convenience and/or looks. In your case, I'd just get the best rather than go for convenience/looks.

btw: if I were to go for a monster PC today, I'd probably go for new generation GPU's. A rig based on 3 or 4 HD 5870, with it's excellent performance as well as scaling, would likely outperform your 4 GTX 295. But that's a different topic for another forum.

Originally Posted by echn111

btw: if I were to go for a monster PC today, I'd probably go for new generation GPU's. A rig based on 3 or 4 HD 5870, with it's excellent performance as well as scaling, would likely outperform your 4 GTX 295. But that's a different topic for another forum.

Im only going to use nvidia products, because of CUDA

Ok. Well four GTX 295's will make for an impressive but also complicated WC build. Probably looking at two loops with one pump each.

I wouldn't worry too much about the GPU blocks - any decent block will do but because you are looking at quad SLI I would only consider "full cover" GPU coolers. Your air flow over the GPU's with four GTX295's will simply not be sufficient to handle non full cover blocks if your system is seriously stressed. I like EK GPU blocks as they perform well and are dependable - but really any decent (copper) full cover block will do including koolance, dangerdan etc. It is not as critical as the CPU block IMHO.

Leaks not not occur if you build and test carefully. And I have found WC'ing to be low maintence if you use quality parts, design your loop properly, test it and assemble it properly. I just replace the liquid once a year or so....

But it's not cheap, takes time/patience to do properly, and imposes restrictions on your flexibility (i.e. when you decide to replace those GTX295's, that's a major operation). And a "monster" build like this is more complicated and isn't normally something for a first time watercooler. It is a challenge, and you will get superior performance and noise levels, but you need to carefully consider the downside of watercooling as well.