Receiver for simple 2.1 computer setup

I found what I think is a pretty solid deal for some Klipsch B-3 bookshelves @ $199/pair via Amazon. ( klipsch.com: http://++++++++++++/yjm5ryh || amazon.com: http://++++++++++++/yhk33a6 )

Anyway, I don't feel like I need to buy a big home theater receiver if are smaller ones that are used for simpler setups like like the one I'm putting together. I'll be connecting via optical from my EP45-UD3R board. (If there's a real reason to buy a new soundcard for something like this, I'm open to that.)

I watch a few movies, play a few games, and listen to music. I don't expect anything audiophile quality, but rather something that sounds better than the hollow computer speakers we're all familiar with.

Given a budget of ~$400 for both receiver and sub, are there any suggestions for a) receiver, and b) sub that won't shake my apartment neighbors' walls?

1) Forum gremlins have killed your links.
2) If you are outputting via optical, there is no need for a good sound card. The receiver will be doing all of the leg work.
3) Not shaking the walls? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? :-)
- I'll post a recommendation tomorrow....Well, when I wake up at least. $400 is plenty to net you a great sub and receiver.

Onkyo receiver under $200..highly rated: Onkyo TX-8255 Stereo Receiver

Originally Posted by Daishiknyte

1) Forum gremlins have killed your links.

oops.. the links are tinyurl with the same stuff after the /. I guess tinyurl is discouraged.

klipsch
amazon.com

Originally Posted by Daishiknyte

3) Not shaking the walls? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? :-)

I just don't want something so loud that I can't listen to it without causing disturbances. There will be times, of course, that I don't mind.. but if I'm watching a movie late at night, I still want to get some bass without waking the neighbor baby.

Originally Posted by mangamonster

Onkyo receiver under $200..highly rated: Onkyo TX-8255 Stereo Receiver

Thank you for the recommendation. I've never hooked up a sub to a receiver without a dedicated sub-out. Can you (or anyone else) explain how to use a stereo receiver with a sub?

After some researching, I think I've got my sub selected (Onkyo SKW204) and narrowed the receivers down to 4 or so.

My next question, which helps decide which receiver to buy, is how much power do my Klipsch B3s need to function well? The Klipsch website says they are 85W speakers (340 max) -- so will a 50W receiver power them sufficiently or will I need 100W per channel to give them enough juice?

The receivers I'm looking at so far:

Pioneer VSX-519V-K (5 channels, 110W per channel, and sub pre-out) $166
Onkyo TX-8555 (2 channels, 100W each) $248
Onkyo TX-8255 (2 channels, 50W each) $194
Sony STR-DH100 (2 channels, 100W each) $122

The obvious benefit for me with the 5 channel is having the sub output, and being able to add surround later, even though I really have no plans to do so. If 50W is sufficient, but 100W is better, then I really don't see why I'd buy the Onkyo 8255 over the Sony. The same is true if 100W is better regarding the Onkyo 8555 and the Sony. Are the Onkyo receivers really that much better when dealing with something as small as my setup? Maybe they are, and I'm hoping someone with more knowledge will lay it out there for me.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the Sony simply because it seems well powered enough, and comes in significantly cheaper than the other potential solutions. I'm looking forward to people telling me either why that's not such a great idea, or why it makes sense given what I'm looking for.

Thanks in advance for any further assistance.

Hmmm... Is there a reason you are getting the Onkyo instead of the Dayton series of subs on Partsexpress?

Originally Posted by 450

Hmmm... Is there a reason you are getting the Onkyo instead of the Dayton series of subs on Partsexpress?

Not particularly. I'm an Amazon Prime member, so I get free 2nd day shipping on that particular sub. It's also marked down to $106, which seemed competitive with any of the Dayton series. I'm also not familiar at all with the Daytons, but I'm open to anything at this point. Would you recommend them over the Onkyo at roughly the same price point, if not a little more expensive with shipping cost at partsexpress? (I want to have everything put together by the end of this week, 12/6)

For partsexpress' cyber monday, you can get a 12" dayton for $99. The onkyo is a good choice too.

Don't worry about 50 watt vs 100 watt. If you ever turn the volume up high enough to use it, annoying your next door neighbors will be the least of your problems. I've listened to a 30 watt/channel amp easily drive speakers to unbearable volumes. On that note, I would take the onkyo receivers as my first choice. They have a solid line of products and an excellent reputation.

Originally Posted by Daishiknyte

For partsexpress' cyber monday, you can get a 12" dayton for $99. The onkyo is a good choice too.

Don't worry about 50 watt vs 100 watt. If you ever turn the volume up high enough to use it, annoying your next door neighbors will be the least of your problems. I've listened to a 30 watt/channel amp easily drive speakers to unbearable volumes. On that note, I would take the onkyo receivers as my first choice. They have a solid line of products and an excellent reputation.

Thank you. My last question is basically a sanity check on how this hookup should go.

PC optical out -> receiver
receiver R/L out -> sub R/L in
sub R/L out -> klipsch R/L

Something like that?

Originally Posted by hiptoss

oops.. the links are tinyurl with the same stuff after the /. I guess tinyurl is discouraged.

Of course it is! You have no idea what is hiding behind a TinyURL redirect link, it could be something malicious.

If you want something easy to read, use the inline URL tag.

Here's how (replace <> with [] )

<url=http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/b-3-overview/>use the inline URL tag.</url>

Originally Posted by defaultluser

Of course it is! You have no idea what is hiding behind a TinyURL redirect link, it could be something malicious.

If you want something easy to read, use the inline URL tag.

Here's how (replace <> with [] )

<url=http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/b-3-overview/>use the inline URL tag.</url>

Yeah, I figured it out and had it correct in that same post. Thanks!

Originally Posted by hiptoss

Thank you. My last question is basically a sanity check on how this hookup should go.

PC optical out -> receiver
receiver R/L out -> sub R/L in
sub R/L out -> klipsch R/L

Something like that?

I think from your choices above, the Pioneer receiver is the only one with optical and hdmi inputs. The others are all analog. IMO, the Pioneer is your best choice because the digital to analog converter in the receiver will be far superior to the DAC on your PC's sound card. Computer digital to analog conversion is extremely low end and introduces all types of audio artifacts into the listening experience.

So, it would look something like this:


PC Optical out > Pioneer Receiver > L/R speakers

**If the receiver doesn't have a dedicated sub out, you can use the Tape Out instead, in addition to the L/R speaker outs. You won't be able to control the sub's volume though from the receiver if you use tape out though...instead, you will need to use the subs independent volume level.

Originally Posted by mangamonster

I think from your choices above, the Pioneer receiver is the only one with optical and hdmi inputs. The others are all analog. IMO, the Pioneer is your best choice because the digital to analog converter in the receiver will be far superior to the DAC on your PC's sound card. Computer digital to analog conversion is extremely low end and introduces all types of audio artifacts into the listening experience.
.

nonsense.

to the OP:
the pioneer isn't a bad choice, it'll let you expand in the future (if you ever want to), has the sub out (but you'll have to configure 2.1 on its end, not the PCs end), and a few other features over the Onkyo analog kits (which are probably 10 to 20 year old designs, there is nothing wrong with this, it just means you're missing a lot of modern features), and we'll just forget you ever considered that Sony

as far as "the soundcard does all the legwork", not entirely true (queue obnoxious whining teenage flametard), while it isn't handling D/A conversion (which can be a good thing, but doesn't automatically mean "zomg audiophile perfect 10/10 quality best in the world forever lol"), it still handles audio processing, so theres still an application there, if you want something like Pro Logic on the system's end, or CMSS, alternately, you could get the stereo Onkyo receivers (if expansion doesn't bother you), and a decent soundcard, you'll have a beefier amplifier, but overall less features on the receiver side (as its analog only in design)

as far as connections
if you get the Pioneer, you can either use the front L/R high inputs on the sub, as you originally set out to do, or use the LF output, in order to do the later, the xover has to be configured on the receiver, rather than the sub

if you get one of the stereo Onkyos, you'll run through the sub as you originally set out to do

either way, you're going to control the volume of both the sub and the speakers from the receiver, you'll just need to dial the sub's amp into an acceptable level

regarding using the tape/PFL outs:
I would honestly never suggest this, as its a full range line level signal, which the sub may or may not be designed to handle (if its not performing any xover action on whatever input you jack into, thats a problem), if it offers high level inputs, go for those instead, as theres a proper xover and so on behind that, LFE is another choice, assuming your source device has a proper crossover in order to provide that signal

furthermore, theres no reason to give up the preamp control of the receiver when theres more than a few solutions that leave things working cleanly

obobski, what part of my comment was nonsense. Not quite understanding...

Originally Posted by mangamonster

obobski, what part of my comment was nonsense. Not quite understanding...

digital to analog conversion within a PC is not "extremely low end" and does not "introduce all types of audio artifacts", furthermore, a receiver is not an assurance to have a higher quality D/A, nor is an external device

external does not mean a thing, except external

a quality soundcard, and even a quality onboard solution, can easily match the D/A abilities of this receiver, and even receivers costing many times as much, at least if you're going to compare objective, legitimate terms, if you want to debate over what "feels" good, well, that has no empiric measurement and means nothing to anyone but you (or whoever is making the claim)

My opinion is that obobski is strongly against going outside of a PC's audio card for audio conversion and that external DACs are nonsense. That's fine. I'm not. I still stand by my opinion that the built in audio cards are the weak part of any PC that converts audio to analog. I know this because I can hear it. I've tested it. I can tell the difference. Of course, either of our opinions are both subjective.

Either way, to the OP, you can test it out for yourself and decide. Anything that puts out a digital audio signal (1's and 0's) MUST be converted to an analog signal. That is the duty of a computers sound card (digital to analog conversion). I tested it out for myself before I bought my audio equipment. The difference in sound quality is substantial. The built in soundcard on any PC (Macs are pretty decent) is usually of subpar quality and will pose as a bottleneck for some people's. That's why I suggested using the digital out straight to the Pioneer, as it will have a better/cleaner digital to analog conversion. But, if sound quality is not that important to you, by all means, the line out from your PC will do fine.

I still stand by my suggestion and using optical out from your PC to the receiver is truly a no brainer as there is no real added cost involved...all you need to do is buy an optical cable if you don't already have one and they are less than a couple bucks. Plug it into the receiver and listen to it. If it provides you with a better listening experience than the analog audio out from your PC, then that's excellent. If not, than that is also fine.

What I DO NOT suggest is going out and buying a 'high end' PC audio card. It's an substantial added cost that shouldn't be explored since the Pioneer can already bypass your PC's DAC and do the processing for you. That is just my opinion though, because as obobski said, the only correct configuration for your audio setup is what makes you happy..what makes you enjoy the listening experience.

a soundcard is NOT just there for D/A conversion, in fact, thats the LEAST of its duties, its there to decode/encode and process audio signals to offload them from the central computer, a soundcard is *not* a DAC, a DAC is a component of a soundcard, there is a large difference


my point was actually NOT that "the only correct configuration for your audio setup is what makes you happy" (please don't think you can change my words), instead it was that any such arguement based on purely subjective opinion is moot, as it loses context the second its basis is applied to another scenario, and based on this premise, any subjective claim to the effect of "I tried it myself and have seen the light" is baseless

in context, the D/A's available on discrete internal solutions and quality onboard solutions (assuming there is no noise bleed, and please take this qualification to heart) are going to be on par, or vastly better than, the Pioneer receiver in question, and many receivers at many times the price, this is not based on an opinion of the device, but instead factual measurements of the device, which represent its electromechanical characteristics (e.g. I don't feel that the Earth is round, I know that the Earth is round, due to objective measurements)

on a related note, none of this functionally matters with modern devices, as long as something in the neighborhood of 92-94 dB S/N is reached, and IMD is sufficiently low, these features have been more or less available for at least the last decade, in other words the difference between something like a dCs Ring DAC or one of those fancy pants MBLs and the output from, say, a modern Oppo DVD player will be more or less identical, at least in terms of what the DACs are actually doing (the analog output stages may differ slightly, either to add distortion (which many audiophiles find pleasing) or to drive a specific load)

Again, your post is completely objective no matter how far you delve into the specifics. Let the OP decide what sounds best.

Originally Posted by mangamonster

Again, your post is completely objective no matter how far you delve into the specifics.

thats my goal, to be objective and provide factual data to the best of my ability

Let the OP decide what sounds best.

yes lets fight over him/her like two children tearing at a teddy bear