7900gtx - turn off optimizations = X1900xtx IQ?

AstroCat

AstroCat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
151
Ok, I just got a 7900gtx and I'm having a bit of buyers remorse. I know that the 1900 from ati is supposed to have better IQ and much less shimmering.

If you turn off all the AF optimizations for the 7900, like I always have with my 7800gtx, will the 7900gtx come close to or equal to the 1900 IQ, and shimmering?

I swear the 1900 would have been my first ati card, if it wasn't for the darned heat/noise problems I keep hearing about.

Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.
 
I believe it does and i think it even exceeds ati IQ.

But i have never done a direct compare.

Last time i checked with my x850xt my 7800gtx looked way better.

But i haven't tried any 1x00 series ati's.
 
I also wonder how big of a perfomance hit I will be taking by turning all optimizations off. I don't know of any benchmarks that show this comparison.
 
From what i have seen on forum posts and my own experiences it's not noticable at all sometimes around 5% worst case.

There was a thread on nvnews where someone did a comparison.

I lock this stuff globally and then only change aa and af per profile and i have never noticed any shimmering (except when i first got the card and didn't know to clamp LOD).

I upgraded from an x850xt and the diffrence was magnificent, i thought the IQ was much better than ati's at the time.
 
If you turn all the optimizations off it would be about equal, maybe better than ATIs IQ at default but still can't match it when HQ AF is used. And HQ AF has almost no hit( <1% ) at all on the 1900s so it's typically left on.

I've seen some people say that the hit on Nvidia cards is as much as 20% when all the optimizations are disable. I haven't seen any comparisons so I can't say for certain though.
 
See, I would be totally happy with the X1900xtx, but if it's going to be super loud I'd hate it. I went through a lot of trouble making my case very quite, 120mm fans, etc...

Just how horrible is the X1900xtx as far as noise?
 
Bigjohns97 said:
I believe it does and i think it even exceeds ati IQ.

But i have never done a direct compare.

Last time i checked with my x850xt my 7800gtx looked way better.

But i haven't tried any 1x00 series ati's.
Click to expand...

If you haven't compared two card from the game generation then you probably shouldn't make any conclusions ;)
 
I should also mention the current noise of my 7800gtx256 is 100% ok, how much worse would the 1900xtx be during game play?
 
The IQ is diffrent with Nvidias taken a larger hit. Their was a link on Beyond 3D that showed Nvidia Performance without AF opts to = ATi AF IQ and it took something like a 15% hit.
 
Bigjohns97 said:
good thing i didn't :)
Click to expand...

yeah man, why are people so spiny about some of these subjects around here...people need to CHILL OUT!
 
the current 1900xtx cooler is too loud for people who want quiet. it's a beast of a card but if you have it on your desk in a SFF forget it.
 
AstroCat said:
Just how horrible is the X1900xtx as far as noise?
Click to expand...

In 2D, i don't hear my XTX over my 12cm casefan @ 1400rpm, it's inaudible. In 3D yes, you'll hear it. For me no problem because i use a headset while gaming.

Personally, i don't consider a aftermarket cooler like the Axelero which is quiet in 3D too because i like the concept of the stock cooler. It sucks all the hot air out of the case, it works like a casefan. It helps keeping you mobo chipset cool too.
 
It's actually impossible to shut off all Nv opts to be honest. Angle dependent AF is hardwired into the hardware. HQ in Nv's driver is not equal to HQ AF in ATi's control panel.

And for those that say what do you stare at the screen the whole time? Here's another point, Ati shimmmers less with opts on than Nv with opts on.

It's like someone saying crossfire works better than SLI. True colors shining through. There are certain areas where defeat is defeat even if your guy is the better choice for you. Ati's AF is better. Thats the truth. Anything else is !!!!!!ism.

I think Brent still likes the 7900GTX anyways, he saw the morphing in BF2. It's alright people, you can lose a check box. Get over it. :) Make your choice KNOWING a 7900GTX is faster in many games but ATi's AF is better. Knowledge is power. Don't need to delude every con of a choice until it's what Jesus himself would have picked/made. It doesn't work that way.

Anyways, guess that was a bit preemptive. Not targetting anyone. This topic always ends up boiling down to AF and that's the scoop. Nv won the benchies and has a great $300 option. Pick your poison.
 
Bigjohns97 said:
I believe it does and i think it even exceeds ati IQ.

But i have never done a direct compare.

Last time i checked with my x850xt my 7800gtx looked way better.

But i haven't tried any 1x00 series ati's.
Click to expand...


I've done direct compare of 6800 and 7800 cards, ATi just completely beats nvidia for iq to the point ATi with 2x AF looks better than nvidia with -1 LOD bias AND 16x AF!!!
 
Bigjohns97 said:
I believe it does and i think it even exceeds ati IQ.

But i have never done a direct compare.

Last time i checked with my x850xt my 7800gtx looked way better.

But i haven't tried any 1x00 series ati's.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you've come to your own conclusion.

Why do you "think" if you don't know.
 
AstroCat said:
I also wonder how big of a perfomance hit I will be taking by turning all optimizations off. I don't know of any benchmarks that show this comparison.
Click to expand...

none

chill out man the max differance between these cards is like 5%. if you looked at some of the benchies, nvidia really got there crap together on this one. with aa and af on max the G71 takes far less of a hit then the G70.
 
BBA said:
I've done direct compare of 6800 and 7800 cards, ATi just completely beats nvidia for iq to the point ATi with 2x AF looks better than nvidia with -1 LOD bias AND 16x AF!!!
Click to expand...

I don't believe that. I think you had some settings wrong.
 
Come on over to my shop and I can let you compare the 2 side by side. I won't tell you which is which and you pick the better IQ.
 
I should say with my rant OP if you have not seen shimmering yet, I wouldn't get all excited yet. You already have an Nv on the way. The drivers are better etc. I'm not one to go and cancel deliveries. You have a 7900GTX on the way. You shouldn't be worrying about this right now. :)
 
Astrocat send that card back tell them the problem and get the X1900xtx.

The sound every one is screaming about is not that bad. It is loader . But it doesn't sound as bad as people say. If what I am saying is not true I will buy that X1900xtx from you.
 
nobi125 said:
Sounds like you've come to your own conclusion.

Why do you "think" if you don't know.
Click to expand...
The first spin on yet another controversial thread, gj. [sarcasm] You are the man [/sarcasm]
 
I could do that BangForTheBuck. No doubt. I have had a 7800GTX and a x1900XT so I won't be coming over to the shop. ;) The differences can be minor but let me play BF2. I would just know what to look for, thats all. Wouldn't be that hard for me.

I don't know why people were jumping on your back though. You were comparing your experience with an x850 and a 7800GTX. Heh... the x850 would have angle dependent AF anyways. It's not like what we are talking about now. Just because they weren't side by side, sounds like his opinion to me.
 
This Drivers are better BS is a little annoying . Not true. ATI has an excellant driver program =to.or>than NV. CCC is so easy its unreal. propaganda is a useful tool . But thats all it is.
 
Damn. You just don't agree with anyone. The x1900XT driver is not in perfect shape right now. Considering the 7900GTX's origins, I'm sure it's fine. It's a lot easier to add my custom widescreen resolutions when I was with Nv and a 7800GTX. It's not a gigantic app also. A lot of enthusiasts hate shit like that. Propaganda, alright, that's your opinion I guess. I forgot about you and your style of posts. I get why people got on you so fast now. I forgot. :p
 
No, NV cards cannot equal, nor exceed ATi's IQ. ATi's HQ AF alone is enough to be above NV's IQ.

Also, saying NVs drivers are better, is an opinion, and far from fact.
 
All I was saying is ATI'S driver program is great. and if what your saying is true than the OP has some wonderful improvements to look forward to at least 12 times a year. So even tho You think I was disagreeing with someone by your own words your saying ati has some improvements to make on the current generation of cards . The current performance of X1900xt is already great. So by your own words performance is only going to improve month by month by month . Is this not so can we agree on that.
 
Having directly compared a 7800gtx and a x1800xl image quality wise, I have to give it to ATI. I tried everything to get the 7800gtx up to the image quality of the x1800xl with HQ AF enabled (which had almost no performance hit, like 1-2% max). The Nvidia card just couldn't match it, and it was noticeable, particularly in Quake 4.
 
Bigjohns97 said:
I don't believe that. I think you had some settings wrong.
Click to expand...

I think at one point I had EVERY setting wrong trying to get the nvidia to look like the ATi...finally found the two reasons: LOD Bias on nvidia is set to a high positive value to reduce textures at distances sooner to combat shimmering and no angular AF like ATi.

The closest you can get an nvidia to look like ATi is to set LOD Bias to -1 to counter the factory setting, but be prepared for excess shimmerring with FSAA turned on.

Why is this so hard to believe? Have you never actually used both cards?
 
BBA said:
I've done direct compare of 6800 and 7800 cards, ATi just completely beats nvidia for iq to the point ATi with 2x AF looks better than nvidia with -1 LOD bias AND 16x AF!!!
Click to expand...

Wow how you are wrong, although you can be allowed your opinion, saying stuff like this is sooooooo dumb.

I have compared:

ATI: 8500, 9800 Pro, X800XL, X1600XT
NVIDIA: FX 5600Ultra,6600GT,6800NU,7800GS

I prefer NVIDIAs 2D quality.

3D it depends. The AA quality i would give an edge to NVIDIA(excluding the FX) because it is more bold. ATI tends to fade a lot of fencing/power lines in distance, when NVIDIA draws them.

AF quality with NVIDIA on HQ compared to ATI(not using Angle-Independent) is pretty even, || much edge to ATI. of course the HQAF on the X1K line looks really good
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Come on over to my shop and I can let you compare the 2 side by side. I won't tell you which is which and you pick the better IQ.
Click to expand...


I can show you flat out the difference. It's not un-noticeable.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
Wow how you are wrong, although you can be allowed your opinion, saying stuff like this is sooooooo dumb.

I have compared:

ATI: 8500, 9800 Pro, X800XL, X1600XT
NVIDIA: FX 5600Ultra,6600GT,6800NU,7800GS

I prefer NVIDIAs 2D quality.

3D it depends. The AA quality i would give an edge to NVIDIA(excluding the FX) because it is more bold. ATI tends to fade a lot of fencing/power lines in distance, when NVIDIA draws them.

AF quality with NVIDIA on HQ compared to ATI(not using Angle-Independent) is pretty even, || much edge to ATI. of course the HQAF on the X1K line looks really good
Click to expand...

And whats wrong about what I said again?

Oh...and I haven't noticed nvidia drawing power lines in distances where the ATi did not. What games please?

Cards I have and compared: ATi 8500, 7900P, X800XT, X1900XTX. nVidia TNT/TNT2U/GF1/GF2/GF2U/GF4/GF-FX 5700/6800GT and my friend had the 7800GTX512 (Mine was on order two months until I cancelled and bought XTX)...of course, my friend also sold his 7800GTX and bought an XTX as well...and why would you think that is?
...Nevermind...don't answer.
 
BBA I couldn't agree with you more I can see the differance plain as day . ATI has better IQ period . Thats the only reason I stay with ATi I use the side by side to allow my customers to make a informed decision ( 19 out of 20 choose the monitor with ati card running it.)
 
Well, I have the X1900XTX and a BFG 7800 GTX 512, and the ATI takes an edge for IQ in any game where you turn on AA and AF to HQ settings. The NVIDIA card slows down significantly while the ATI card seems to suffer a little less with these options turned up. If you play FEAR, the ATI card eats the NVIDIA alive.

The shimmering on the NVIDIA card was a little annoying, especially when you are running around in a FPS, and the flashing texture distracts you a tad. I like to blame my poor kill to death ratio on shimmering. :D But, really, it's not that bad. The ATI however is clean as a whistle when compared.

I have to agree with the previous posts about 2D. While colors are richer, the ATI fonts always seem a little fuzzy and out of focus in 2D. The NVIDIA card was so crisp, I thought I had some settings wrong when I first installed the ATI. It was kind of like going from a DVI connection to a 15 pin D-Sub.

The X1900XTX sounds like a vacuum at start up, but quickly quiets down. The stock HSF is a little chinsy as far as design and build. In 3D mode, it really is not that loud. But, it is louder than the NVIDIA, which sports a much better HSF design.

Side by side, the ATI just seems more crisp. Some textures just appear more correct color wise. But, after running each card the settings tweaked for IQ, it is really hard to tell the differences. I am quite happy with both.
 
Thats what my customers say its more vibrant picture. I credit ATi for my excellant kill ratio of 5/3 and I don't use cheats my daughter gets so mad at me.
 
Well, I've gotten the opportunity to test out a x1900xtx and so far here's what I think:

1. It's louder than my 7800gtx256OC for sure, but not as loud as my old 6800ultra.

2. The IQ/Lack of shimmering is for sure noticeable better on the x1900xtx over the 7800 (Tried Wow, HL2, BF2 and COD2)

3. The fan does oscillate as the load increases but so far it's not been too bad and not over the sound of my game playing. My room is around 72F temp and my case has good airflow with 120mm fans and is generally very quiet, the 1900 is by far the loudest thing in the case. I don't know how bad it can get under hotter conditions. More testing on this for sure is needed.

4. The worst part for me is the "whine" of the fan especially in idle mode, since my system is generally so quiet it really sticks out. The airflow noise is ok on my setup.

Not sure yet if I'm going to keep the x1900xtx, I've been with nvidia for years, and this would be my first ATI card ever. I'm a little nervous about the drivers, bugs, etc... so I'm not sure yet. The other issue is the "whine" of the fan, I'm just so used to a quiet gentle "woosh" and that's it. Actually sometimes it's so quiet you can easily forget it's on. The wonders of 120mm fans :)
 
i must say, watercooling is a blessing. No noise from my X1900XTX :)
X1900XTX%20WC.jpg
 
What is necessary to set up water cooling for the 1900 card... seems like a lot of extra work, no?
 
AstroCat said:
What is necessary to set up water cooling for the 1900 card... seems like a lot of extra work, no?
Click to expand...


It is alot of work to cool just the video card, but if you cool the CPU and GPU it makes for a heck of an overclocking beast. My X1900XTX idles at 31-34C depending on room temp and during gaming at 710/840 it hits 40C max. It is alot of work, but well worth the investment.
 
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