Dual Core vs Dual CPU

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Slartibartfast

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
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Hey all, as you may have guessed by my recent postings I've been researching for a new comp, and have a few more questions for you guys:

I'm debating whether I should go for a single dual core system (probably an Opty 170), or a dual single core system (2x Opty 240ish with the intent to 265+ in a year or so). From what I understand, on the Supermicro H8DCE and Tyan K8WE mobo, there are seperate memory banks for each cpu, so that the memory bus won't bottleneck when each cpu needs to access memory (this is what you guys mean when you talk about NUMA, correct?) Given this, if I am running an intensive single-threaded app (ie some sort of game), will the cpu handling the game only have access to its own memory, or can it use the memory normally assigned to the other cpu if need be?

Similarly, wouldn't the two cores of a dual-core cpu conflict with each other if both needs to access the system memory at the same time, causing a slight delay?

On a side note, assuming a dual cpu setup, would having 2x512 sticks for each cpu be noticeably better than just having 1x 1gb stick per cpu?

Finally, what about stability? It would seem to me that in a dual cpu system, the seperate memory banks combined with the fact that it's ECC Registered would make the system more stable overall than just a dual-core setup. Am I right in this?

Thanks for any and all input!
 
Part of the answer lies in the OS too. XP 32 has memory limitations that XP 64 does not. However, since you will be using 2GB's of RAM that will not be a problem. Some of the new games take advantage of dual core or dual CPU configs. As far as stability, the difference is night and day, IMHO.
 
Here's the Rule Of Two:

Need clock, use single cores.
Need threading, use dual-cores.

If you're gaming, use 254's. If you're doing a database server, use 270's.

Really is that simple. The single-cores are superior for gaming, especially since very few games thread worth a damn. CoH/CoV is an exception to the rule - threading is actually quite good - but you still will see better performance out of two single-cores versus two dual-cores or a dual-core.
 
Thanks for the input so far. My aim in building this machine is something that I can game with reasonably, but it will certainly not be the focus of the machine - I'm probably only going to get a 7600gt for the video card. I want something that's going to be a rock-solid heavy multitasker than I can reasonably upgrade for a few years. I like stability more than I like performance, so I'm willing to spend more on a dual cpu rig if it's going to give me more stability and flexibility than just a dual core rig.

Anyone have any information about my memory questions?
 
You will get faster timings out of 512, ala Corsair. I chose Samsung because of its reliability and stability and opted for 2GB sticks for upgrade room.
 
theseeker said:
You will get faster timings out of 512, ala Corsair. I chose Samsung because of its reliability and stability and opted for 2GB sticks for upgrade room.
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Well, unfortunately money's going to be tight for a while, hence why I'm thinking the 4x 512. Traditionally I buy Crucial - how do you like the Samsung?
 
Slartibartfast said:
Well, unfortunately money's going to be tight for a while, hence why I'm thinking the 4x 512. Traditionally I buy Crucial - how do you like the Samsung?
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It was expensive, but it is worth it. I bought mine from Officalmemory they are very helpful and there is someone online to help you.
 
theseeker said:
It was expensive, but it is worth it. I bought mine from Officalmemory they are very helpful and there is someone online to help you.
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Thanks for the linkage, I'll definitely look into it.

Also, I'm leaning towards the supermicro h8dce for the mobo. Can anybody recommend some good power supplies for this board?
 
theseeker said:
Either board requires a lot of power. Your safest bet is PC P&C.
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That's what I figured - those things are a big hit in the wallet though. Do you think the 850 could support an sli system or would I want to go for the 1kw?
 
Slartibartfast said:
That's what I figured - those things are a big hit in the wallet though. Do you think the 850 could support an sli system or would I want to go for the 1kw?
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The 850 will be more than sufficient. I just have a tendency to go for overkill, which I need to curtail. BTW, these PSU's are rather large, so check your case first.
 
theseeker said:
The 850 will be more than sufficient. I just have a tendency to go for overkill, which I need to curtail.
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I'm trying to find a good powersupply that won't crap out on me but won't be too expensive - I have to pay the electric bill too :p The problem is newegg won't tell me what connectors are on the power supplies, and that supermicro board says it needs the 24, 8 and 4 pin connectors on the mobo all connected.

edit: I'm looking at this case.
 
You don't need a PC P&C unless you have a massive amount of HDDs or similar...SLi dually rigs run fine on the high-end Silverstone (S12 iirc and higher) and the Enermax Liberty too (it has a EPS modular plug). Silverstones are supposed to some of the more efficient PSUs out there as well.
 
movax said:
You don't need a PC P&C unless you have a massive amount of HDDs or similar...SLi dually rigs run fine on the high-end Silverstone (S12 iirc and higher) and the Enermax Liberty too (it has a EPS modular plug). Silverstones are supposed to some of the more efficient PSUs out there as well.
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I'm going to run 3 sata drives (raptor for os/programs and a raid 1 for file storage). Initially it's just going to be one videocard but I want to keep sli an option for the future.
 
Slartibartfast said:
I'm trying to find a good powersupply that won't crap out on me but won't be too expensive - I have to pay the electric bill too :p The problem is newegg won't tell me what connectors are on the power supplies, and that supermicro board says it needs the 24, 8 and 4 pin connectors on the mobo all connected.

edit: I'm looking at this case.
Click to expand...

If you decide on the P&C PSU, I would suggest you e-mail them. They are very good about telling if it will work stock.
 
movax said:
You don't need a PC P&C unless you have a massive amount of HDDs or similar...SLi dually rigs run fine on the high-end Silverstone (S12 iirc and higher) and the Enermax Liberty too (it has a EPS modular plug). Silverstones are supposed to some of the more efficient PSUs out there as well.
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I guess the reason that I am so adamant about PC P&C PSU's is because of the instability problems I have had with PSU's in the past. There is not another PSU as stable.
I believe Toms Hardware arrived at a similar conclusion.
 
PC P&C are stable as hell, no doubt (I believe they are guranteed stable), but sometimes you will end up with a PSU that's just as good if you're lucky enough. Silverstone has shipped bad units to me in the past, but I always end up with a good one in the end.
 
movax said:
PC P&C are stable as hell, no doubt (I believe they are guranteed stable), but sometimes you will end up with a PSU that's just as good if you're lucky enough. Silverstone has shipped bad units to me in the past, but I always end up with a good one in the end.
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I dont doubt you, but I have had too many bad experiences, and I hate RMA'ing.
 
I've heard a lot of good things about PCP+C, but I don't exactly want to spend $400 on a psu if I can avoid it...
 
Slartibartfast said:
I've heard a lot of good things about PCP+C, but I don't exactly want to spend $400 on a psu if I can avoid it...
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I can understand that, but then again why buy a Ferrari with a 4 cylinder? :D
 
H8DCE requires the PCP&C 1KW customized.
Configuration thusly; 12V3 to the 24 pin, 12V1 to 8 pin, additional 4 pin carrying 12V2.
$499.00, with a few days of leadtime. Must be ordered by phone. Your PCIExpress 6 pins should be 12V3 as well.

No other power supplies have tested and passed with the H8DCE. It gets pissy unless you've got 24+8+4 all connected. Rail configuration isn't TOO particular, but that's what I recommend based on conversations with PCP&C and Supermicro.
 
AreEss said:
H8DCE requires the PCP&C 1KW customized.
Configuration thusly; 12V3 to the 24 pin, 12V1 to 8 pin, additional 4 pin carrying 12V2.
$499.00, with a few days of leadtime. Must be ordered by phone. Your PCIExpress 6 pins should be 12V3 as well.

No other power supplies have tested and passed with the H8DCE. It gets pissy unless you've got 24+8+4 all connected. Rail configuration isn't TOO particular, but that's what I recommend based on conversations with PCP&C and Supermicro.
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I am glad to see that someone besides me endorses that PSU.
 
It's not that I'm against them, I'm just working on a close budget. I'm trying to keep it around 2000 but that's starting to look impossible. What about the Tyan K8WE? What are my power supply options there?
 
AreEss said:
No other power supplies have tested and passed with the H8DCE.
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What other supplies have you tested? Regular-case-shaped ones, or rackmount? What about the case Supermicro sells with the h8dce and a 645W power supply?
AreEss said:
12V3 to the 24 pin, 12V1 to 8 pin, additional 4 pin carrying 12V2.
Click to expand...
That's potentially all 72 A just for CPUs, board and memory (the rails are 18/18/36, in order). I mean, wow. Where does all that power go? And if it's just to provide stable voltage, why does it need to be overspecced by so much? Say 100W * 2 for the chips (that's their TDP, more or less); that's 16 amps. Where's the other part of the power get used? Are you overclocking when you do the stability test? What are the actual draw figures when it's running? What other hardware are you using with it? I'm a little skeptical...

But I'm not arguing; I really want to know. I'd like to get an Opteron system, but if it's going to need the 1kw it's going to take me a little longer ;) I won't be overclocking, one graphics card, one or two drives.

 
AreEss said:
Here's the Rule Of Two:

Need clock, use single cores.
Need threading, use dual-cores.

If you're gaming, use 254's. If you're doing a database server, use 270's.

Really is that simple. The single-cores are superior for gaming, especially since very few games thread worth a damn. CoH/CoV is an exception to the rule - threading is actually quite good - but you still will see better performance out of two single-cores versus two dual-cores or a dual-core.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. Which is why I went with 254's.
 
AreEss said:
H8DCE requires the PCP&C 1KW customized.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree if it's absolutely mission critical or important, but the hundred or so pages of the H8DCE thread on 2cpu.com feature happy users with the H8DCE before the 1kw was even available. I'll save $200/$300 and stick with a Liberty os Silverstone kthx.
 
movax said:
I don't disagree if it's absolutely mission critical or important, but the hundred or so pages of the H8DCE thread on 2cpu.com feature happy users with the H8DCE before the 1kw was even available. I'll save $200/$300 and stick with a Liberty os Silverstone kthx.
Click to expand...

So the Enermax Liberty has all of the proper mobo connectors? I haven't been able to find any good pictures or anything.
 
jonnyGURU's review claims an 8-pin and a 4-pin, but another site mentions that there's a 4+4 connector, which leads me to believe it's just one actual cable and therefore not suitable. Newegg shows the 4+4 but you can't tell if there's another cable in there somewhere. Maybe one could get a converter from SLI power to 4-pin?

Edit: the Seasonic 600 has 4 and 8-pin connections - see newegg pics. 2*18A rails, maybe it'd hold up? I'd like a quiet machine...

 
Slartibartfast said:
So the Enermax Liberty has all of the proper mobo connectors? I haven't been able to find any good pictures or anything.
Click to expand...

I am not sure about the Liberty, but the Enermax I am using works perfectly with my Tyan K8WE.
 
I have dual 246s in the H8DCE. Also add in three hard drives, one optical drive, RAM, and a 6800GT (requires the PCI express molex). Plus a bunch of fans. This is all running off of the original Antec True Power 550 EPS12V. It has been absolutely stable. You don't need to spend a ton of money on a PS, but you really should put as much money into one as you can, and stay with the name brands, gotta love the $50 600W Power Supplies that some people buy. When I see stuff like that I just cringe...

Despite the fact that I own the Antec TP550 EPS12V, I can say this about the newest True Power 2 550W EPS12V from Antec. The power supply comes configured either with an 8-pin SSI connector that has a 4-pin wired to that connector, or just an 8-pin SSI connector that can be split into two 4-pin. If you end up with the H8DCE, the 8-pin w/ the 4-pin just reaches the necessary connectors. If you end up with the 8-pin that splits into two 4s, then you will need molex/4-pin adapter. I have no idea WHY Antec would do this on thier EPS version of the power supply, makes no sense to me. They work fine with the hardware (just sent out 20 systems based off of the H8DCE w/ dual 265s), however, the fact that it is hit or miss with what you get with this power supply, I can't really give it a 100% recommendation.
 
Slartibartfast said:
So the Enermax Liberty has all of the proper mobo connectors? I haven't been able to find any good pictures or anything.
Click to expand...
The Liberty datasheet reports a EPS connector, and I think someone here used it in their planned build. As you can see though, you've got several reports of working PSUs in different configurations.
 
unhappy_mage said:
Edit: the Seasonic 600 has 4 and 8-pin connections - see newegg pics. 2*18A rails, maybe it'd hold up? I'd like a quiet machine...
Click to expand...

The people in the PSU forum always mention seasonic as being a great brand, that was actually one psu I was looking at.
 
Slartibartfast said:
The people in the PSU forum always mention seasonic as being a great brand, that was actually one psu I was looking at.
Click to expand...

Kyle has a Seasonic 600Watt in his machine powering 2 7800GTX's, an X2 4800+ and 6 or more hard drives. (Last time I checked) So I'd say the Seasonic is a good one. If it was crap Kyle wouldn't have put it in his machine.

I am using the Enermax Noisetaker 600W EG701AX-VE(W) SFMA ATX2.0 SLI Compliant PSU in my own rig without any issues. Though I'm afraid I'll need more when I add another 7900GTX.
 
unhappy_mage said:
What other supplies have you tested? Regular-case-shaped ones, or rackmount? What about the case Supermicro sells with the h8dce and a 645W power supply?
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That case passes, sure. But that's a case. Not a power supply. You can't get the PSU seperate.You also can't replace that PSU. And it does not hold up under extremely heavy loads, unfortunately. You don't want to push it.
That and the case is way expensive.

unhappy_mage said:
That's potentially all 72 A just for CPUs, board and memory (the rails are 18/18/36, in order). I mean, wow. Where does all that power go? And if it's just to provide stable voltage, why does it need to be overspecced by so much? Say 100W * 2 for the chips (that's their TDP, more or less); that's 16 amps. Where's the other part of the power get used? Are you overclocking when you do the stability test? What are the actual draw figures when it's running? What other hardware are you using with it? I'm a little skeptical...
Click to expand...

Stability tests are 'okay, we're going to piss off this board if it kills us.'
Two REALiZM 800's, dual processors, all DIMMs populated. That's 300W of video alone (150W per REALiZM. That's also extreme VRM stress because it's 75W from each PCI-Express slot plus 75W from the PSU. (Hence why 12V3 to the ATX24.)
It's stable when I break things without losing voltage stability. That doesn't happen too often.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the 7800's are pushing VERY close to that 150W number.

unhappy_mage said:
But I'm not arguing; I really want to know. I'd like to get an Opteron system, but if it's going to need the 1kw it's going to take me a little longer ;) I won't be overclocking, one graphics card, one or two drives.
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Honestly? It's overspeccing and futureproofing. The 1KW garauntees you won't need to replace it for at LEAST a few years. Still, the MINIMUM I'm recommending for most is the 850SSI customized similarly. The 510XE also is capable for yours, but doesn't have the rails to make the H8DCE happy in many situations. It's twitchy enough that I'm not comfortable recommending it. It's not the PSU either; it's the board itself. Draw can be strange with the nForce.

As far as the other solutions; they're not as good, they're not as the 850SSI or the 1KW by a longshot - or as quiet. The 1KW is dead silent when not heavily loaded. Also, the H8DCE prefers 3 rails for very good reason. I have tested with a quad rail with tying, that didn't work well - I was seeing weird ripple. Quad independent rails worked well though. The optimal configuration, to be entirely blunt, is quad rails; 16-20A 12V1 and 12V2, 15-20A 12V3 to the board, and 15-20A 12V4 to the PCI-Express 6 pins exclusively.

It's just really, really expensive.
 
It depends on your priorities and uses. It sounds like mostly you want to do gaming which really means you don't need an opteron and if you do then something like a 144 would be good. Dual cores aren't any advantage for that type of work right now and in many cases they're a hindrance/annoyance.

You should also be weighing the price of a dual proc system against that of a single dual core one. A dual system is going to require a seriously expensive motherboard, ram, power supply, two heatsink/fans and you'll probably want a big case to house it in. It can also complicate what you're going to add to the thing in terms of cards and that is not to mention the heat/noise factor.

For a personal machine (I can't see this being a server for the things you mentioned), I can't see why you'd bother with 2 processors. One fast dual core processor can handle a huge amount of processing. You can also still build a quiet, effecient and economical machine.
 
general said:
It depends on your priorities and uses. It sounds like mostly you want to do gaming which really means you don't need an opteron and if you do then something like a 144 would be good. Dual cores aren't any advantage for that type of work right now and in many cases they're a hindrance/annoyance.

You should also be weighing the price of a dual proc system against that of a single dual core one. A dual system is going to require a seriously expensive motherboard, ram, power supply, two heatsink/fans and you'll probably want a big case to house it in. It can also complicate what you're going to add to the thing in terms of cards and that is not to mention the heat/noise factor.

For a personal machine (I can't see this being a server for the things you mentioned), I can't see why you'd bother with 2 processors. One fast dual core processor can handle a huge amount of processing. You can also still build a quiet, effecient and economical machine.
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A dual Opty 254 will smoke any dual core in gaming, if you play COD2, I have the experience with an FX-55 and a dual core. Dual 254's are like running two FX-57's and that is a combination that is very difficult to beat.
 
Ok, it's like this:

I want gaming to be an option. Every now and again a PC game comes down the pipe that I want to play, but that's not too often. The last PC game I bought was FarCry, if that gives you any indication. I am more than likely going to use a 7600gt, maybe even a 6600gt.

As I said previously, stability is top priority in my book. I want a system that I can do a lot on at the same time and not have to deal with pauses, freezes, etc. I love me the multitasking, hence the reason for pursuing a dual cpu setup. From what I understand, this is a better solution that just running a dual-core. I'm also going back to school in the fall for computer engineering, so I have a feeling I'll be having more use for a beefy rig in the future.

Also, I've never built an smp system, and want the experience. I've learned a lot already just talking to you guys and reading various threads.

Additionally, I think that a dual socket 940 that can take 16 gig of ram and sli is pretty future-proof. Right now I'm looking at getting opty 246's, but in a few years I think 280's will be a viable option (I mean there are people still clinging to their socket A's, ya know?)

And finally...I just plain want it!

On a different note: what's being discussed about psu options for the supermicro h8dce is pretty much the same for the tyan k8we, because they're similar chipsets, right?
 
Slartibartfast said:
Ok, it's like this:

I want gaming to be an option. Every now and again a PC game comes down the pipe that I want to play, but that's not too often. The last PC game I bought was FarCry, if that gives you any indication. I am more than likely going to use a 7600gt, maybe even a 6600gt.

As I said previously, stability is top priority in my book. I want a system that I can do a lot on at the same time and not have to deal with pauses, freezes, etc. I love me the multitasking, hence the reason for pursuing a dual cpu setup. From what I understand, this is a better solution that just running a dual-core. I'm also going back to school in the fall for computer engineering, so I have a feeling I'll be having more use for a beefy rig in the future.

Also, I've never built an smp system, and want the experience. I've learned a lot already just talking to you guys and reading various threads.

Additionally, I think that a dual socket 940 that can take 16 gig of ram and sli is pretty future-proof. Right now I'm looking at getting opty 246's, but in a few years I think 280's will be a viable option (I mean there are people still clinging to their socket A's, ya know?)

And finally...I just plain want it!

On a different note: what's being discussed about psu options for the supermicro h8dce is pretty much the same for the tyan k8we, because they're similar chipsets, right?
Click to expand...


I understand.....so go for it. Just remember, you will always have the ability to upgrade the VC and things that rapidly change. But please, dont skimp on the PSU.
 
theseeker said:
I understand.....so go for it. Just remember, you will always have the ability to upgrade the VC and things that rapidly change. But please, dont skimp on the PSU.
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I know, but $500 is a lot for a psu. I'm looking for that sweet spot of a psu that will be rock solid without busting the bank, if such a thing exists. Also, I have a feeling that dropping a 1kw psu into this box will double my electric bill.

But if I have to, I will. I'm not 100% certain of my budget as of yet.
 
Slartibartfast said:
I know, but $500 is a lot for a psu. I'm looking for that sweet spot of a psu that will be rock solid without busting the bank, if such a thing exists. Also, I have a feeling that dropping a 1kw psu into this box will double my electric bill.

But if I have to, I will. I'm not 100% certain of my budget as of yet.
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Buy an 850, it is virtually the same. Send me a PM and let me know what you want to buy, I have a couple of connections.
 
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