Looks like we have company in the Physics Arena

Makes me think of Adam Sandler....

Well, whoop-a-dee-doo!

The only reason I care about videocard based physics is because it's very existance from 2 different vendors is probably going to fuck up any chance of standardization in hardware based physics for years, and that pisses me off. The only upside is that it will probably force an open DirectX style standard in the long run, but that could still take years, and in the meantime the whole market will be a mishmash of different pieces of hardware and software...

Now, if the 3rd one allows 3 card Crossfire.. That will be more worthwhile.
 
Wich isn't so bad for Ageia.
First it's aimed at CF audience who want to keep CF option With a dedicated GPU for Physics.
But then again there for, you must very favor HavokFX titles. it makes no sense if your gone like more physX titles. Like a lot UE3.0 games and more.

This smells first as a HD DVD BlueRay thing. A gamble choice.
Two solutions for the same thing. And Dev's and gamers must make a choice or wait what floats on top wich may take a while.

But for me and a large part of the audience, as I see It. I don't need CF. But take it anyway.
I might like a good HavokFX title and want it to play in optimom form.
Also a Killer PhysX app.
To Put a R600 and something R600-ish for HavokFX next to it and a PCI-E PPU card :)

Yes because in short lime Ageia will come with PCIE PPU to. Where that chipset can eb use for to.

For CF I would need 4 PCIE16 slots and the monitors that support realy heavy settings. Like 2560x1600. No extreem Budged so 3 slot is fine. The max I need.
To keep the options open.
 
Okay, we need standardization NOW!

Reason: We don't want to buy a third video card AND a PPU!

As much as I support the PPU, I would rather have GPU physics than have to buy both (and, on top of that, not be able to use NVIDIA). They need to make it so that both types of games will run on both types of cards.
 
arentol said:
Makes me think of Adam Sandler....

Well, whoop-a-dee-doo!

The only reason I care about videocard based physics is because it's very existance from 2 different vendors is probably going to fuck up any chance of standardization in hardware based physics for years, and that pisses me off. The only upside is that it will probably force an open DirectX style standard in the long run, but that could still take years, and in the meantime the whole market will be a mishmash of different pieces of hardware and software...

Now, if the 3rd one allows 3 card Crossfire.. That will be more worthwhile.
Click to expand...

QFT! Some games working with ATI, some working with NVIDIA, and some working with AGEIA is exactly what I'm worried about. It's something that can and should be avoided.

But, it is the Inq, so maybe we will see some standards by the time hardware physics really takes off.
 
HOCP4ME said:
QFT! Some games working with ATI, some working with NVIDIA, and some working with AGEIA is exactly what I'm worried about. It's something that can and should be avoided.

But, it is the Inq, so maybe we will see some standards by the time hardware physics really takes off.
Click to expand...

So what would everyone rather have?

1. Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
2. Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics, Havok, etc

Not too tough of an answer.
 
The Inquirer can be full of crap some times but this could be true. I for one won't be using Physics cards or anyhting along the lines for a long time yet. I wait until prices settle and new tech has emerged before I buy something. I think a Physics dedicated card would be better than GPU Physics processing but the my opinion.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
So what would everyone rather have?

1. Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
2. Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics, Havok, etc

Not too tough of an answer.
Click to expand...
Ageia is using their own middleware simply because they had no alternative. They're giving the SDK away for free to create a market for their hardware (they are, after all, a semiconductor company, not a middleware developer). They will support a standard interface such as DirectPhysics all the way, as this achieves the same end. They'd most likely support HavokFX as well, if Havok allowed it.

Hopefully we'll see DirectPhysics at some point in the future, taking middleware out of the equation entirely.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
So what would everyone rather have?

1. Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
2. Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics, Havok, etc

Not too tough of an answer.
Click to expand...
No it's wrong. Guess you went for 2?

A1 Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
A2 Nvidia/ATI hardware that works with Havok FX
B1 Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics. Wich support PPU to.

A is a near future choice to make on wich game you gona realy like and uses wich solution to accelerate Physics. And the choice to Upgrade or not for playing it optimal.
B is a long term standarisation. UE4.0 engine. NextNextgen game engines. All major Hardware soution supported by a standard.

A1/2 is totaly not so clear for the masses. To few games for PPU out now and nothing for Havok FX yet for a while.
The games deside in the near future.

Offcourse there sick people with a hardware fetish still playing with Voodoo Hardware. :)
So I guess some have already a very strong preference based on air in this case.
the voodoo crowd have nostagy and the glory day's that make them that sick. :)

I have a preference to but keep my options open. First the wave of PPU games.
For Games I buy Hardware. Not for Hardware Games.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
From the sounds of things we should see the competition for the physics hardware dollar with the RD600 release. Can't wait to see the outcome!
Click to expand...

I can't wait either...tired of the PR :p

Terra - You forgot GPU-physcis in your sig :p
 
Terra said:
I can't wait either...tired of the PR :p

Terra - You forgot GPU-physcis in your sig :p
Click to expand...

Trust me we are all sick of PR and tech demos. Lets get to the point were physics is actually enhancing the gaming experience.
 
SuperGee said:
This smells first as a HD DVD BlueRay thing. A gamble choice.
Two solutions for the same thing. And Dev's and gamers must make a choice or wait what floats on top wich may take a while.
Click to expand...
It certainly does, and with your analogy, I have figured out which side will win between Havox and Ageia!: It will be the PORN INDUSTRY that descides the fate. Much like Betamx and VHS. Betamax had better quality, but VHS is what PORN INDUSTRY decided to use and it became the standard. So now all we have to know is what the next gen LEISURE SUIT LARRY or Playboy Mansion (lost in breasts2) will use, and the wait is over. LOL
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Trust me we are all sick of PR and tech demos.
Click to expand...

I havn't seen any techdemos fra ATI/NVIDIA? :)
I have seen one from AGIEA, that has evolved into a full game..besides the other games that has PhysX support.
But the GPU-physics side has been all PR, no show...

Lets get to the point were physics is actually enhancing the gaming experience.
Click to expand...

Let get something on the table...not just empty words...because I have seen nothing for ATI/NVIDIA in regards to GPU-physcis...but empty words...
Harder than they thought?

And this is physics enhancing the gameplay: Not a techdemo anymore..sorry :p

Terra - Unless you wanna call all games for techdemos? :rolleyes:
 
griff30 said:
282MB! I'll download but I hope this islike the PORNO I was talking about! LOL :cool:
Click to expand...

Well, it's kinda physics porn, if you like ;)
That reality-engine sure looks good :)

Terra - No wonder Epic grabbed it ;)
 
R1ckCa1n said:
So what would everyone rather have?

1. Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
2. Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics, Havok, etc

Not too tough of an answer.
Click to expand...

No, here's the situation:

AGEIA supports PhysX API and DXPhysics
Now, ATI and NVIDIA can either:
1. Support Havok. Then you'd need PhysX for DXPhysics and GPU physics for Havok.
2. Support DXPhysics. Then, both solutions would work with all games.

Bottom line is, if we don't get both solutions to use a common API, things are going to be very bad for us. Otherwise, we'll need both solutions to play both types of games. And I don't think anyone here wants to buy a PPU and a physics GPU.

Either that, or Havok needs to allow AGEIA to support their engine. After all, it would only gain them more sales, so why not?
 
AFAIK it's not really an issue of whether Havok will let the Ageia card work with it, so much as it runs through either GLSL or HLSL, which isn't currently supported. If Ageia wrote an opengl implementation or directx driver it might work just fine with Havok. I think it's unlikely that that will happen though.
 
Wich means when DxPhysics takes of. That would be some year's. Novodex(PhysX) and Havok FX will as API kick the bucket. Because the standard one takes over.
Well Ageia has the PPU Core bussness to fall back to. Havok FX will dissapear? Or they have years to design and make there DXPhysX HArdware solution. Or focus as a PS3 API. Wich novodex(PhysX) is also.

I also guess that DX Physics would support CPU PPU GPU xboxone/360 no sony no Wii?

Its ATI/nV will support first Havok FX and way later secondly DirectPX
 
R1ckCa1n said:
So what would everyone rather have?

1. Ageia and their proprietary hardware/software
2. Nvidia/ATI making hardware that works with DXxx physics, Havok, etc

Not too tough of an answer.
Click to expand...

I would rather have the GPU and the CPU performing physics together for many reasons.
However if the PhysX card performs well with the upcoming game releases, I am interested in buying one (+ a dual core CPU and X1950XTX card :))

The icing on the cake would be support for PPUs, CPUs and GPUs working together for Physics.
 
Noticed the mention of DXPhysics, what's that?

Microsoft has stated that they are not currently working on a DirectX Physics API at this time. That means several salient points below:

1. It won't ship with Vista, as other than bug squashing, no new DX 10 features are being implemented at this time. In fact, changes to the DX 10 model are supposed to remain frozen to level the playing field for programmers and hardware developers.

2. It won't exist until a much later version of DX. As explained for answer 1 alone, a significant programming/hardware advantage has to be shown for a new revision of DX to be developed. This will be examined for a much longer period of time than previous DX releases do to the fact each release will have a frozen API for programmers and hardware developers to have a level playing field.

3. Microsoft doesn't currently find a problem with software developers deciding between several physics programming environments. They may wait for a victor and then buy them out instead of investing resources to this "niche" market. Point number three though is speculation, don't ask for a link.

So it's really up to Ageia/Havok to decide on supporting each others methods (PPU and GPU) for their models. I think from a competitive standpoint that this may eventually happen. If not, then a complementary approach of having the necessary PPU and GPU installed into a computer for physics may come down in pricing enough that it'll be more than just the extreme enthusiasts that implement these technologies.

As it stands currently XFire 3 slot approach and PPU cards are both seen as a very small "niche" market and will continue to be viewed as such until there is a more significant market penetration. Until this happens, I'm far more excited over Dual-Core/multi-threaded enhancements to Physics than any of the other hardware solutions at this time. Don't argue about the performance aspects to the two other approaches being superior as I understand and appreciate that, but I don't care due to the cost versus result at this time. As for Dual-core/multi-threading, I've already purchased my CPU and can take advantage of any advancements here already. With Conroe and X2 pricing being what they are, Dual-core will have serious inroads to most desktops over the following year or two. Multi-GPU and PPU will most likely be "niche" for a long time yet.
 
SuperGee said:
Wich means when DxPhysics takes of. That would be some year's. Novodex(PhysX) and Havok FX will as API kick the bucket. Because the standard one takes over.
Click to expand...
I agree with that, though I'm still not convinced that MS is going to do anything with respect to physics in DirectX. Microsoft is generally pretty good at having their standards adopted.

And there will always be other systems that games are developed for that need physics middleware (Sony, Nintendo, etc.).
 
jimmyb said:
I agree with that, though I'm still not convinced that MS is going to do anything with respect to physics in DirectX. Microsoft is generally pretty good at having their standards adopted.

And there will always be other systems that games are developed for that need physics middleware (Sony, Nintendo, etc.).
Click to expand...

Microsoft has stated that they are not currently working on a DirectX Physics API at this time.
Click to expand...

Well, they aren't working on it at this time, but that's because hardware physics is a niche market at this time. When it becomes more popular, and a Havok vs AGEIA war begins to develop, no doubt Microsoft will have their DX physics API out in the blink of an eye. Microsoft is, and has always been, the comany of standards. The reason they've become so successful is because they're the mediators who ensure that all hardware will work together. They did it with Windows, Office, all components of DirectX, and several other things. I don't think they're going to let the chance to standardize another market pass them by. They're probably ready to start work on a physics API at any time if the market gets hot.
 
MS just starting to hire people for it. Physics experts. So it take a long time before we can fidle with it. when the SDK arives incorperating it.
So it's a long term isue. Not so relevant for the Ageia Havok battle.
First thing that comes is more PPU titles and the first HavokFX game.
 
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