24" LCD's: "Pandora's Box"

Hey everyone,

I just ordered an Acer AL2423W 24" LCD display from Newegg.com and I hope I made the right choice.

I received a 26" LG HDTV (26LX1D model) and wasn't happy with it. It had a low res of 1366x768 and no DVI input. So, I thought I'd get a 24" LCD monitor, i know alot about LCD's, it should be easy right? Well... erm, it was until I though I'd get the Dell 2407WFP. With just a tiny bit of research... I opened up a whole new box of worms... er, pandora's box that is.

First, I learn that the Dell 2407WFP has horrible colour banding, similar to a "TN" display to get fast response times. Then, I tested my current 19" LCD, and found it had banding issues also, and the grays always were tinted pink / green. Well, then the Dell won't be any different, and i can live with it right? Then, I hear the Dell has a wobbly stand, backlight bleeding issues, and then this thing called "INPUT LAG".

At the sound of Input Lag, I curl into my chair and rock back and fourth wishing those words to go away. First, I learn that most monitors are TN panels, that the 6MS response times are actually lies (GTG measurments) and now all 24" suffer from INPUT LAG!?

I didn't have to research anything to know what those two words combined meant. I later then did research and find monitors like the Dell 2407 had ~35-45ms of input lag... I was almost crying at this point. Then I learned of the new Acer 2423 that hardly anyone knew about. No color issues, many people said it was TOO bright, and one reviewer said "NO MOUSE LAG!" then, I later found this page: GoT Review (Translated to English).

^^ That was the only page I could find documenting how much unput lag this monitor has. 20MS, that sounds pretty good compared to others! Because, if I get this LCD and find my mouse lags ANY, I will strangle someone with a shameful analog VGA cable. Is 20MS less than most 24"? Has anyone used the Dell 2407 to tell how bad it is?

It makes me sick to my stomach, that companies now use "Gray-to-Gray" measurments to fool people into lower response rates, and use technologies such as "Overdrive" to reduce ghosting by causing input lag, lower their monitors to 6-bit colours, TO REDUCE GHOSTING A COUPLE MS, AND CAUSE LAG SO BAD WE CAN'T EVEN MOVE OUR MOUSE?

Was the Acer a good choice? Why are people so anal about ghosting? Maybe it will teach them a lesson to get a monitor so laggy they can't move their mouse.

-Any feedback appriciated!

Just some stuff from Wikipedia:

While the pixel response time of the display is usually listed in the monitor's specifications, no manufacturers advertise the input lag of their displays, likely because the trend has been to increase input lag as manufacturers find more ways to process input at the display level before it is shown. Possible culprits are the processing overhead of HDCP DRM and DSP techniques employed to reduce the effects of ghosting

Click to expand...

And the Wiki also said "Most sensitive users can tolerate input lag under 20MS". And I remind myself of an artist talking about a painting, lol... I can "feel" my mouse and "become one with it" as soon as I start using it

I wish I could slap everyone who hates LCD's because of ghosting with my keyboard right now, that entire mass of people is causing things like this to happen because all the manafacturers are trying to get uber response times. Serisouly, does ghosting matter if you have 60MS input lag?!

Save the buyers remorse until after you get the monitor and play around with it.

I've been trying to hint at the fact this Acer has the lowest input lag i've seen. People should look into it

I think you made a good choice, and the input lag and ghosting issues are overblown. My older lcd has 25ms rating and i had 0 issues with ghosting. Currently i have 244T samsung and ppl complained about input lag with that model,..yet it's seems as responsive as any display I've seen/experienced. If not faster!

lol...I feel your pain. Before I hit the "confirm order" button for my Acer F-20 I read everything I could about this monitor, similar monitors and many others...I found that too much research can give you unfounded fears and make you aware of too many issues which may or may not actually exist.
When I finally took delivery I took a deep breath, closed my eyes and fired it up. Well what do you know...using pixel buddy I found no dead pixels with any color, I found that my windows desktop looked fantastic in widescreen and a lot of websites are set up to center with the wide format. With major trepidation I fired up a few games....Flatout 2 (not the best widescreen implementation) was stretched but still looked and ran great with no ghosting that I could tell. Rome Total war..with the 1.5 patch that adds widescreen looks fantastic and I can see more of the battlefield. NFSMW was a different story but with a simple res hack I was soon playing at 1680x1050 and it looked great and played smoothly.

The bottom line is this...like the gentleman above said wait until you actually have the thing in front of you before you get buyers remorse.

Yea I just ordered 2 Acer AL2423Wdr's from newegg yesterday so hopefully there nice and good...I decided not to go the dell route, because you cant beat the 699.99 price and free shipping...plus i already have an lcd tv for the 360 and who needs a card reader on their monitor anyway.

Trust me, you will all be happy with that Acer monitor. I've had mine for 2 weeks now, and its nothing but a pleasure to use. Games are perfect, colors are awesome, brightness to spare. Make sure if you are gaming with it, you have a beefy card. I've got an x1900xtx and I can run everything really nicely [though i will be getting DX10 cards in crossfire when they come out, just to be on the safe side].

As for input lag, it is literally non-existent. I can't feel it at all.

c4eater said:

I think you made a good choice, and the input lag and ghosting issues are overblown. My older lcd has 25ms rating and i had 0 issues with ghosting. Currently i have 244T samsung and ppl complained about input lag with that model,..yet it's seems as responsive as any display I've seen/experienced. If not faster!

Click to expand...

Lol, I know (or at least in my opinion) ghosting issues are way overblown. Gaming is actually the time when i notice ghost trails the least. I most notice them when dragging a white mouse over a dark background. As far as input lag, i'm glad there are people out there telling us if they fell it with certain monitors. It's not about the issue that the image on my LCD might be 1-3 frames behind; it's how sluggish my mouse is going to be. I'm glad the Acer is 20ms, should be barley noticeable.

The strange thing is, some people mention getting that mouse lag when getting a new 24", and then they plug in a high-end optical mouse (Like Logitech G7) and say it eliminates it. No matter how fast your mouse is, it doesn't matter if your screen lags behind - correct?

-Any other comments / opinions on Ghosting or Input Lag is welcome So far i hear that I will like that Acer!

Oh, one more thing: This quote is from your "TFT Technology Breakdown" thread; I was wondering what this fact meant on MVA displays:

-details can be lost when directly viewing dark areas

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Some mice are sluggish when used with LCDs not due to input lag but as a combination of low (60Hz) refresh rates and the low polling rate of the mice (125Hz).

The Logitech G5/7 have a default polling rate of 500Hz which is likely why they don't have this problem.

That makes sense... but the monitor itself is clearly the culprit if an 800dpi mouse exibits no lag on a standard 19" LCD but it does on a larger 24" one. Apparently input lag doesn't effect smaller LCD's.

I mean, buying a Razer mouse with 2,000dpi is rediculous just to compensate for input lag.

P.S. Nice un-reliable UPS didn't deliver the package today, it should be here Tuesday (long weekend, everyone off on monday). Then when I get it I can tell everyone how it is

Cornflake said:

That makes sense... but the monitor itself is clearly the culprit if an 800dpi mouse exibits no lag on a standard 19" LCD but it does on a larger 24" one. Apparently input lag doesn't effect smaller LCD's.

I mean, buying a Razer mouse with 2,000dpi is rediculous just to compensate for input lag.

P.S. Nice un-reliable UPS didn't deliver the package today, it should be here Tuesday (long weekend, everyone off on monday). Then when I get it I can tell everyone how it is

Click to expand...

I never order anything the week before a holiday...if scheduled delivery is friday before a holiday weekend UPS will ream you every time.

joemama said:

I never order anything the week before a holiday...if scheduled delivery is friday before a holiday weekend UPS will ream you every time.

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Hehe yeah, i'll never use UPS again. Last time, i ordered a 2lb package with 3-day shipping (It was coming from California, i'm in Coloraodo) and it took 4 days to get here. And it was only like 1.5 states away!

as far as my Acer goes, it didn't help either that I ordered it monday night, gave Newegg a 2.99 RUSH order fee, and it didn't get out of the warehouse till Wednesday mording.

Ah, the only dis-advantage of online shopping - shipping!

Cornflake said:

Oh, one more thing: This quote is from your "TFT Technology Breakdown" thread; I was wondering what this fact meant on MVA displays:

-details can be lost when directly viewing dark areas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Can aonyone tell me what that sentence from the Technology Breakdown thread means about dark areas?

I don't want to turn this into a tired CRT vrs LCD thig but I noticed the same thing. Had to get rid of my 2405 at the time. I looked around and everything would have a counterpoint. Should I go with this because it's fast, or that because it has better contrast ratio. FW900 for me. I did buy a westy for a TV/gaming setup. Distanmce helps my perception of blur a bit.

texuspete00 said:

I don't want to turn this into a tired CRT vrs LCD thig but I noticed the same thing. Had to get rid of my 2405 at the time. I looked around and everything would have a counterpoint. Should I go with this because it's fast, or that because it has better contrast ratio. FW900 for me. I did buy a westy for a TV/gaming setup. Distanmce helps my perception of blur a bit.

Click to expand...

It is dissapointing, like you mentioned, that everything related to monitors is hard to decide on nowadays, because everything has a counter-point.

But, this is not CRT vs. LCD at all. I'm trying to point out that manafacturers are now causing EVERYONE pain because of terms like "input lag" that never existed, because of the kicking and screaming of CRT users who would rather have their 100lb. FW900 fall on them ( ) than look at 12ms ghosting response rate (Most monitors are 8ms or lower now).

Hence, why i titled the thread "Pandora's Box". No one really knows what the truth is when it comes to looking at monitors, especially ones above 20"

If what you are saying is true, then I think you should stay away from the LCDs with the lowest rated response times. I have a 16ms 8bit SPVA panel and it is great. I also have a second TN monitor that is 8ms. The SPVA panel is certainly a lot better with colors and even viewing angles. I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that if you want a good 8bit panel, you most certainly will not find anything rated lower than 12ms.

First, I learn that the Dell 2407WFP has horrible colour banding, similar to a "TN" display to get fast response times. Then, I tested my current 19" LCD, and found it had banding issues also, and the grays always were tinted pink / green. Well, then the Dell won't be any different, and i can live with it right? Then, I hear the Dell has a wobbly stand, backlight bleeding issues, and then this thing called "INPUT LAG".

Click to expand...

Man, you were lied to. Who told you this monitor had a problem with input lag? All LCD monitors do to some extent but the 2407 is better than the 2405 as far as lag is concerned, and the 2405's lag was only noticeable to a small percentage of people. The stand works just fine as well. Backlight bleeding might be a problem if you get a defective unit. Who filled your head with all this bullshit anyway?

It makes me sick to my stomach, that companies now use "Gray-to-Gray" measurments to fool people into lower response rates, and use technologies such as "Overdrive" to reduce ghosting by causing input lag, lower their monitors to 6-bit colours, TO REDUCE GHOSTING A COUPLE MS, AND CAUSE LAG SO BAD WE CAN'T EVEN MOVE OUR MOUSE?

Click to expand...

Jesus christ...hyperbole much?

I went from 20.1 201B Viewsonic to a 22inch 19.8 viewable SGI SONY G520 never been happier since. Monitor is unbelieveable.. I would of went with the FW900 but i think it was just too big for me and did not want to deal with widescreen game configs just yet.

Okay, got my AL2423W today, i'm posting a detailed review

joemama said:

lol...I feel your pain. Before I hit the "confirm order" button for my Acer F-20 I read everything I could about this monitor, similar monitors and many others...I found that too much research can give you unfounded fears and make you aware of too many issues which may or may not actually exist.
When I finally took delivery I took a deep breath, closed my eyes and fired it up. Well what do you know...using pixel buddy I found no dead pixels with any color, I found that my windows desktop looked fantastic in widescreen and a lot of websites are set up to center with the wide format. With major trepidation I fired up a few games....Flatout 2 (not the best widescreen implementation) was stretched but still looked and ran great with no ghosting that I could tell. Rome Total war..with the 1.5 patch that adds widescreen looks fantastic and I can see more of the battlefield. NFSMW was a different story but with a simple res hack I was soon playing at 1680x1050 and it looked great and played smoothly.

The bottom line is this...like the gentleman above said wait until you actually have the thing in front of you before you get buyers remorse.

Click to expand...

Woot! Acer F-20 FTW! (i have the same version without the red paint )

If you think your LCD is fast and you think it has no lag, you are wrong.
Input lag means you are few frames behind and you can't know this until you play online FPS like Counter Strike.

The LAG is there and yes, it can be 45ms on 6ms display, read more:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/632/page1.html

2-4 frames behind can get you killed if you are PFS pro gamer, choose wisely.
Counter Strike snipers are dissappointed (those with better skills)
while others who don't play online FPS games won't notice anything.

I'm Battlefield fan and sniping a running man will not be possible with such lag. Still undecided.... But prolly will go for Acer AL2423W and just shoot ahead

Cornflake said:

Hence, why i titled the thread "Pandora's Box". No one really knows what the truth is when it comes to looking at monitors, especially ones above 20"

Click to expand...

I know the truth becuase I've used several 23+" LCD monitors.

If you want my experience, the least-laggy 23+" LCD monitor I've used is the 23" Apple Cinema Display. It doesn't lag more than one frame. The HP L2335 is about the same as the Apple, but it has color dithering and horrific backlight bleeding. The Sony SDM-P234 has a little bit of lag, maybe one to two frames. The Samsung 243T is about the same as the Sony, but with far more ghosting. The Dell 2405FPW has about two to three frames of lag and is bothersome to me. The Eizo CE240W is about the same as the Dell. The most-laggy LCD monitor I've tried is the Samsung 244T. That monitor has at least three frames of lag, which is ridiculous. Avoid that monitor.

From what I've read and the pictures I've seen, the Dell 2407WFP has about one to two frames of lag, and the Acer AL2423W is about the same. Most people aren't bothered by that little, but if you're extremely sensitive, the 23" Apple Cinema Display is the only monitor I can recommend.