Getting ATI to support Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling

Deusfaux

Gawd
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
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EDIT: FEEDBACK LINK: http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web


Do you guys think we can organize something, perhaps across multiple forums to get them to do this?

The issue:

Users with widescreen monitors (like my Dell 30" @ 2560x1600), and games that dont support widescreen/can't be hacked to run in NON-stretch widescreen.... would like to run their games as large as possible, ideally filling the monitor vertically, and with black bars on the sides, as opposed to stretching the 4:3 image to fit horizontally as well.

Catalyst drivers have only the option for "centered timings", which will run your application in the proper aspect ratio, in a centered box, with black bars on the sides AND top and bottom.

The problem, if you're playing something @ 1024x768, you'll get a very small viewing box of the game, with massive black areas all around it.

The only other option is to scale the image to fit the screen, but that stretches it, which is a BIG NO-NO, as it distorts the images.


Catalys MOBILITY drivers, as well as NVIDIA's drivers have functionality for a better solution included included. It's a third panel option of "Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling", where the image is scaled up to fit the monitor veritcally, but the ratio (4:3) is maintained, so the image is NOT stretched, and there are black bars on the sides (but not the top and bottom!).

There is no good reason why desktop Catalyst drivers do not have this functionality.

ATI has stated in responses to users emailing them about the issue that the might add it in if enough people want it.

Thats where we come in, if we can get enough people raising a stink about it, maybe they will finally put the damn function in.

Perhaps someone has that link where to give them feedback about it. Maybe we should write up a draft email everyone can copy and paste to make things easier on the lazy people. :)



ASSUME all images are on a 1920x1200 LCD/panel


Commie-Killer patched with widescreen support (you see more on the sides):
wide.jpg


Commie Killer without widescreen support, at a resolution of 1280x1024 (max due to load PC can handle, or max due to game design), with "Scale full image to panel size" option checked under Catalyst: (things are stretched out of aspect)
stretch.jpg


CK, same rez as above, with "Centered Timings" checked off: (it is a small box in the middle with borders on all sides)
centeredtimings.jpg


CK, same rez, but with Nvidia drivers (AND HOPEFULLY SOON ATI CATALYST DRIVERS) with "Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling" option: (there are only borders on 2 sides, image is scaled up to fill monitor along one axis, aspect is maintained)
ratioscaled.jpg
 
What I get with my 1333x768 is the screen is partly cut off and is offset to a side.

(Seriously, WTF is with samsung's resolution?)
 
I can't even get Centered Timings to work the way yours works. Everything scales to the full panel size for me. Everything.. :mad:
 
The Catalyst mobility drivers have problems doing it, too. I've said it before, I'll say it again: nVidia can do Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling with the same exact hardware, but ATI cannot. It's either a software flaw or a hardware flaw, but nVidia doesn't have this flaw.

ATI should have addressed this problem long before now, and long before widescreen monitors became popular. The only thing that will compel them to fix it is if there is hue and cry louder than there has been in the last 2 1/2 years that this has been going on.

Or if they are unable to fix existing cards (if it is a hardware flaw), then they really should correct it with future cards. My conclusion is that they either don't care to fix the problem (since it has been going on for 2 1/2 years) or they don't know how to do so.

This problem is extremely annoying. Thankfully, most games these days have widescreen support. Unfortunately two games that I enjoy do not. I've "corrected" my problem by buying a new video card. I doubt seriously that ATI will ever address this issue, considering that first they denied that it was even a problem and then claimed it was the monitor's fault. Of course, an nVidia card hooked up to the same monitor doesn't have the problem, so draw your own conclusions.
 
I may end up going nvidia with my next vid card purchase. I started out with a geforce mx 440, went to a geforce ti 4600 and liked them, went to a 9800pro, then 9800AIWpro, then an x850xt (which i use on my 2nd box) and now an x1900xtx.

I'd like to go to a widescreen (i already own one lg204t) but when I game, it is EA bf2 and bf2142 (which don't natively support widescreen). If ATI does not fix this problem I will buy the top of the line nvidia card when I make the jump to dx10.

Before anyone points me to widescreen forum and recommends the changes, let me point out that the screen cuts off part of the action.
 
Dear ATI,

I just bought a 22-inch widescreen and have to connect my other 4:3 monitor to fully enjoy games that don't support widescreen resolutions.

please add previously said scaling functionality so that I don't have to do this.

thank you.
 
I can get it working with my 2005fpw. I can play any game and it makes it full screen proper aspect.
 
I can get it working with my 2005fpw. I can play any game and it makes it full screen proper aspect.

You are mistaken

You cannot get say, Starcraft to fill your screen vertically and not horizontally.

It is either stretched horizontally, or run in a box.

Or post a photo of your claim otherwise
 
You are mistaken

You cannot get say, Starcraft to fill your screen vertically and not horizontally.

It is either stretched horizontally, or run in a box.

Or post a photo of your claim otherwise

havent tried starcraft, but i run Rainbow Six - Vegas at 1024*768 and it fills the screen with the correct aspect.
 
could you provide a photo of this? I mean I have my doubts here....

what panel setting do you have chosen in the drivers?

"scale image to full panel size"

or

"use centered timings"


the only way i could see it happening is if the display device auto scaled, but as far as i know dell's dont do that.
 
It works for me too. The problem is with you, bud.

ahahaha, yeah no.

This has been an on-going issue for many many ATI users since widescreens first started gaining popularity

photograph your screen if you dont mind or suggest otherwise, one running the game, another showing what panel option you have selected in the drivers
 
Ahh, I see what you mean. In order to do what you want I just do fixed scaling with my monitor. Can you not do that?
 
I have scale image to full panel size and aspect selected in my monitors Control panel.
 
I have scale image to full panel size and aspect selected in my monitors Control panel.


So maybe it IS your monitor working around the ATI driver shortcomings?


Is this OSD (on-screen display) settings you are changing via the buttons on your monitor when you say your "monitors control panel"




Obi - "fixed scaling" is not an option under panel properties... where are you seeing it? what kind of card do you have?
 
Obi - "fixed scaling" is not an option under panel properties... where are you seeing it? what kind of card do you have?

+1

i dont see any option where i can choose fixed scaling in the ATI control panel :confused:

in fact i dont remember seeing it anywhere, in any ATI driver release :(
 
So maybe it IS your monitor working around the ATI driver shortcomings?


Is this OSD (on-screen display) settings you are changing via the buttons on your monitor when you say your "monitors control panel"




Obi - "fixed scaling" is not an option under panel properties... where are you seeing it? what kind of card do you have?

My monitor's panel properties.

My monitor > Your monitor. :D
 
I highly doubt that.

I have 2 30"....


So my point still stands. Any really, you probably want your drivers doing this and not your monitor anyways.


DAMN YOU ATI
 
As things stand for me with this 2007FPW, I have to fuss around with the monitor settings every time I want to scale the resolution to 4:3. So it works, but it's a real pain. Come on ATI!
 
Used to be a problem for me, using the latest catalysts works perfect. Can play non stretched;O
 
Well I have a few comments. First off, what the hell are you doing with a 30" monitor and trying to run it at 1024x768? If you can afford a 30" and you want to play games, surely you've got a video card decent enough to run most of the games today at something CLOSE to the native resolution of the monitor.

Secondly, I've had both NVIDIA and ATI cards and used them with my 30". Unfortunately, NVIDIA's scaling is broken (At least with G80) and it only will stretch to fit. I would prefer an option NOT to scale so that I could run BF2 and BF2142 at 2048x1536 which would leave me with bars on the sides, and very small and almost un-noticable ones on top and bottom. NVIDIA does have the driver option to not scale, but unfortunately it doesn't work. The adjustments don't do anything. It is a known and documented issue, that hasn't been addressed apparently.

I can't stand how the image looks when it's stretched at all. That's just my personal preference. The ATI cards didn't alter the image at all, and it filled the monitor based on the resolution I used. In most cases that was 2048x1536 or 2560x1600. If a game didn't run fast enough and ran like crap, I changed to 1280x800. 1280x800 does fit the screen perfectly on the Dell monitor as they are designed to use that resolution as a second "native" resolution. Thereby remapping 4 pixels and combining them into 1 in order for 1280x800 to look decent.

The only reason I can see scaling really being worth while (to me at least) is when you are playing a really old game like Diablo II that doesn't do anything but run at 800x600 or 640x480. That's obviously going to be far too small on a 30" screen. In which case fixed aspect ratio scaling would be ideal.
 
And in the last sentence I think you understand what we are getting at.

Now us 30" users have a little bit of a different situation that some other users but the point is there and you DO see it

for games that dont support widescreen, you dont want to be running them in a box/with any black on the top and bottom.

we are lucky that if the game supports 2048x1536 there is only a LITTLE black space on the top and bottom, but non 30" users dont have that luxury, and besides, it should be NO black space on the top and bottom.

And what about games that dont support 2048x1536? What about ones that top out at 1600x1200? Thats a lot of black space/small box

What about YES all the older games that cant do above 640x480? 1024x768? Running in such a small box is unnacceptable as is blowing them up all streteched and out of proportion


yes, in the meantime, I try to run my non widescreen games in 2048x1536 or 1024x768 (as it will get auto pixel-doubled up to 2048x1536) if the former isnt supported, but really thats just minimizing a problem that shouldnt be there in the first place.

Sorry the 8800's are messing with this functionality apparently too, but ATI has never even attempted to include it in their desktop drivers.


TIME TO CHANGE THAT!
 
works in any game, give me a little bit, and ill see if i can take a few pics on digital camera for ya ^^
 
Config.JPG

Config1.JPG

DSCF0005.JPG

DSCF0006.JPG

DSCF0007.JPG

DSCF0008.JPG

DSCF0009.JPG

DSCF0010.JPG

DSCF0011.JPG


Resolutions that the Fixed works in with shown configuration:

1280x720
1280x768
1280x800
1360x768
1360x1024
1440x900

Other resolutions do not work fixed scaling. Only those I listed.

-Vashy
 
Resolutions that the Fixed works in with shown configuration:

1280x720
1280x768
1280x800
1360x768
1360x1024
1440x900

Other resolutions do not work fixed scaling. Only those I listed.

-Vashy

Maybe you misunderstood (or i misunderstood) but most of the pictures you posted above show the issue that the OP mentioned. On everything but the final picture the desktop is simply centered in the middle of the screen. What they are asking for is for it to be scaled but maintaining the correct aspect ratio, so they dont get a stretched image. This would result in either black bars going horizontal or vertical down the screne . But it definetely would not show bars going both ways, as in your pictures.
 
it is running those said resolutions in the center of the screen, if it is wide, it makes it wide in the center of the screen. I believe your mistaken
 
Anything smaller than your monitor's native rez is running in a box, as far as I can see, correct?

IE - there is black/space on all 4 sides


Fixed aspect ratio scaling would result never having black on the top and bottom, as you do in most of your images. each image would be scaled up to fit the screen vertically


yours isnt doing this, its running in a box, which is just as bad as stretching. those are the only 2 options ati drivers give us... get catalyst mobility and nvidia drivers had the 3rd option we're asking for - fixed aspect ratio scaling



So again, everyone with ati desktop cards has this problem, whether they are aware of it or not. P.S. thanx for taking the time to put up the pics though, and sorry to dishearten you. I mean, I got an ATI card too and its irritating. some are lucky and have monitors that do the scaling in place of the drivers that dont
 
my screen does make everything stretch if i dont want it in a little box.im confused at what you want
 
my screen does make everything stretch if i dont want it in a little box.im confused at what you want

Right, ati driver only support pictures 2 and 3 that i drew in the first post.

We want picture 4, see how it touches the top and bottom, and isnt stretched?


IE, you get to use as much of your monitor's space as possible without stretching the image.


its an option not available to ati drivers
 
Anything smaller than your monitor's native rez is running in a box, as far as I can see, correct?

IE - there is black/space on all 4 sides


Fixed aspect ratio scaling would result never having black on the top and bottom, as you do in most of your images. each image would be scaled up to fit the screen vertically


yours isnt doing this, its running in a box, which is just as bad as stretching. those are the only 2 options ati drivers give us... get catalyst mobility and nvidia drivers had the 3rd option we're asking for - fixed aspect ratio scaling



So again, everyone with ati desktop cards has this problem, whether they are aware of it or not. P.S. thanx for taking the time to put up the pics though, and sorry to dishearten you. I mean, I got an ATI card too and its irritating. some are lucky and have monitors that do the scaling in place of the drivers that dont

I'm confused as to why you would want it to fit your screen vertically.. You'd end up with some butt-ugly images since you're not fitting 1 pixel to 1 pixel. You end up fitting 1 pixel into like 1.44444 pixels which means pixel #1 is put in box 1, pixel #2 is put in box 2 AND 3.. yeah, that would make for a really crappy image.
 
i just set up my laptop to display like that with GMA and it looked like garbage, why on earth would you want that
 
The only reason I can see scaling really being worth while (to me at least) is when you are playing a really old game like Diablo II that doesn't do anything but run at 800x600 or 640x480. That's obviously going to be far too small on a 30" screen. In which case fixed aspect ratio scaling would be ideal.

This is EXACTLY the situation when it comes into play. I still play Diablo II, StarCraft, Sacred and Sacred:Underworld (which is more recent), even Dynasty Warriors 4 Hyper PC. None of these games can be hacked to run in widescreen, so if you can't get Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling to work, the screen gets stretched - 4:3 stretched to 16:10 is not pretty, to say the least.

If a game has variable resolutions, most of the time playing with the *.ini file will allow you to run it in a 16x10 aspect. A few can be hex edited to work, if you do a search for 16-bit shorts looking by resolution.

There are some, though, that just will not do 16:10. Fire up Diablo II and try playing it for more than 5 minutes with it stretched from 4:3 to 16:10, and then you will suddenly realize what the problem is.

D2, and StarCraft are old games, but they are still heavily played. Sacred and Sacred Underworld are only a couple years old, as is Dynasty Warriors Hyper PC (yes I realize I'm probably the only person in the world that bought this and liked it...LOL).

As widescreen monitors get more popular and people try to play games that they always have played, this issue will get worse. Frankly I gave up on it and bought an nVidia card. Every time I entertain the idea of going ATI I check to see if this is fixed. Since I see that it is still going on, I guess I'll continue buying nVidia.
 
my screen does make everything stretch if i dont want it in a little box.im confused at what you want


And here is issue number 2: People that have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when you try to explain it...LOL or are pretending that they don'tunderstand because they wish to minimize the problem for whatever reason.

Widescreen = a ratio of 16:10 = 1.6
Normal = 4:3 = 1.333

Sacred, for example, only has one resolution, 1024x768, a ratio of 4:3. Now I could play it with centered timings, but then it would be really small on the screen. I want to use as much screen real estate as possible, so that would leave me needing a place holder, the black bars on either side.

Damn, I can't believe I just started explaining this again in the day and age where just about everyone has HDTV. I'm not even going to try. If you don't understand after watching a non-stretched, pillared tv show that is broadcast in 4:3 on your 16:10 television set, you never will.

I'm getting out of this thread, and the ATI forum completely, because I won't be buying or recommending another product with ATI graphics until this is fixed, and it probably never will be.

I will buy nVidia products, and advise people with widescreen monitors or thinking of getting one to do the same.

Please understand that this isn't directed at anyone personally in this thread.
 
i then proceeded to say i got it working on my laptop and it looked really shitty and dont understand the logic ;| Personally i'm not buying ATI anymore either. I gave them too many trys. They cant get it right.

I know what you mean, and doesnt it still use pixel duplication and such and just smudge the image some? The image on my screen on my laptop just looked crappy imo like that
 
i then proceeded to say i got it working on my laptop and it looked really shitty and dont understand the logic ;| Personally i'm not buying ATI anymore either. I gave them too many trys. They cant get it right.

I know what you mean, and doesnt it still use pixel duplication and such and just smudge the image some? The image on my screen on my laptop just looked crappy imo like that

Again, use the HDTV analogy. You don't want to watch a 4:3 broadcast stretched to 16:9, you want to watch it in pillared mode so that it isn't distorted vertically, i.e. with the pillared bars.

My nVidia card does this.

If you have a 1680x1050 monitor, playing a game in 1280x800 looks fine, because it isn't vertically distorted. If it is in 1024x768, though, that is 4:3. The ATI card, drivers, whatever stretches it all the way out to 16:10 so everything looks fat. That's the problem.

I can see now that since issues like this are still plaguing them that I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

NVidia's drivers may be doing this right now, but they always fix things like this (and for the record, it isn't currently an issue for me, because I don't have an 8800 series - yet). ATI lets annoying crap like this go without fixing it and trying to pretend it isn't a problem, or they place blame everywhere else but on themselves. It's just too much of a hassle to get them to fix irritating things like this.
 
My monitor does just that - fixed aspect ratio scaling - just fine. I was just playing Kotor at 1280*960 (no widescreen support). If i tell my monitor to make it scale in a fixed order it does, otherwise it very slightly boxes it (max vert res is 1050). It does exactly what the OP says cant be done, tho my monitor is whats doing it, not the card. Though i cant imagine a Monitor this day in age that cant do that (except for laptops).
 
My monitor does just that - fixed aspect ratio scaling - just fine. I was just playing Kotor at 1280*960 (no widescreen support). If i tell my monitor to make it scale in a fixed order it does, otherwise it very slightly boxes it (max vert res is 1050). It does exactly what the OP says cant be done, tho my monitor is whats doing it, not the card. Though i cant imagine a Monitor this day in age that cant do that (except for laptops).


Yours isn't scaling correctly either if it is "boxing" it horizontally. It is supposed to work like an HDTV pillar box format for 4:3 broadcasts, and use the entire verticle space. But whatever, I said I would stop even looking in this forum, and particularly this thread, and here I've made more posts...LOL.

Now I'm really going to stop worrying about this and enjoy nVidia which works as it should.
 
Though i cant imagine a Monitor this day in age that cant do that (except for laptops).

Dell 3007 WFPs cant, and they're at the top of the chain....



Anyways I realise in some situations it would result in not the best image, but I still think scaling it up > running in a box > stretching the image.

Its the least of 3 evils. And in lots of situations it WONT result in a crappy image. Even the option to pixel double smaller images would be great. 1024x768 gets pixel doubled on my setup, but thats the only one.

poor Duke 3d is the tiniest box in the world...
 
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