E6600 with Scythe Ninja Plus - temps are almost in the 80s!

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Xschtar

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
103
Hello,

I have a E6600 on a P5W DH Deluxe with 2GB TWIN2X memory and a Scythe Ninja Plus for cooling. My FSB is set to 375, which gives the processor a speed of 3,37 GHz or something. Vcore is 1,45, Vdimm is 2.10. The problem is, my cooling doesn't really work. My temperatures are like 10-20 degrees above what they should be. I have great airflow in the case, but lots of cables. The heatsink has two 120mm fans blowing on it, but it doesn't really get hot. It stays cool. Therefore, CPU temperature as shown in the BIOS is ok, around 40 something idle. Now, TAT shows the core temps and they are not so good (temps are in Celsius):

At idle: 54 / 53 degrees
Full load: 67 / 65 degrees
Full load after a couple of minutes: 77/76

This is kind of high, right? Well, I remounted the cooler and applied more thermal paste. Before, the temperatures were all 10 degrees higher and the max core temp was over 90 degrees. I hope this hasn't damaged the cores, I've been running like this for 3 weeks, not knowing the core temps. So when I checked the cooler it wasn't touching the CPU metal thingy save for a round spot in the middle. So I creamed on some more thermal paste (and a little on the side, oops!) and the temps dropped. But they are still too high! What should I do?

Pictures from when I remounted the cooler:


Before


Before


After


After
 
That is very, very odd. I personally think you're using too much paste, but those temperatures are still too high. Clean everything off, again. Visually inspect the heatspreader on the cores, is it concave/convex? In other words, does it not seem totally flat? Do the same for the heatsink's contact area. Also, how did you apply the AS5? I put on a small bead and spread it out, contrary to AS' site, but my temps are excellent.

edit: check vcore using cpu-z, is it higher than you've set it or something? Two more things, clean up your cables, and are the two fans you're saying blowing on the ninja attached to it? Or are they far away?
 
The contact areas didnt seem concave or convex, neither on the cooler nor the CPU. Vcore according to CPU-Z is 1.408v but it goes down to like 1.384v at full load. Stepping 6, revision B2. On of the fans is mounted on the cooler and one is 5 cm away. The cooler, as I've said, doesn't get very hot. If you touch it it doesn't even feel hot. But maybe I'm touching in the wrong area or something.

That sounded gay...
 
my guess is that the hsf isn't making complete contact with the processor, check to make sure the metal mounting plate isn't interfering with any of the capacitors on the mobo.
 
When you say One fan is mounted on the cooler, and one is 5 cm's away, are they on opposite sides? If so, do you have them in a push-pull configuration? Meaning one pushes air thru the heatsink, the other pulls air out of the other side of the heatsink? If both fans are blowing air AT the heatsink from opposite sides, the heat is not going anywhere, it will just buildup around the heatsink.

Do you need that much voltage to be stable at that speed? Voltage=heat. If you don't absolutely need that much voltage, don't set it there.

You say you have alot of cables in the case, are they hindering airflow? Can you ziptie them in such a way as to improve the flow of air? This may help slightly.

Honestly, the second picture you having showing the cpu before the remount, with the small area in the center covered in thermal paste, doesn't look to bad. The center of the chip is where the most heat is, and if you make good contact there you should be alright.

Good luck.
 
Fact that HSF stays cold and CPU get's hot tells you everything. there is a bad heat transfer between CPU and HSF. You have tryeed to solv it with increasing amount of thermal grease but thats just making a transfer surface bigger. It works but doesn't solves a thing because layer od a thermal grease is to thick. That means preasure between CPU and HSF is not enough.

There are few important things for heat transfer.

One of it is a thermal grease. It's used to eliminate air pockets between hsf base and cpu not to be main conductor of heat between cpu and hsf. That's why more of it didn't solved a problem.

Your problem is that heatsink doesn't make enough preasure on CPU. Thighter contact gets better heat transfer is. hence or You are instaling hsf wrong or it's mounting bracket doesn't apply enough preasure. It might be hsf touches something and can't come low enough.

Considering many others using same HSF have lower temps I supose it's your install.

Best way is to apply little drop of thermal grease in middle od a CPU and then evenly spred it across a CPU. Then place a heatsink and be sure it makes thight connection. Pressit onto a CPU a bit CPU will not brake (like it use to with older types of cpu's without IHS)

As tighter a contacts get layer of a thermal grease will be thiner hence more metal will touch metal hence better heat transfer.






MD
 
One pic looks like too much and the other looks like too little.

I'm also having issues with heat, although not as bad, and I see something similar when I unmounted my ninja. You can tell that the outsides of the cpu are pressing against the base of the sink more. That's a concave IHS.

I'm lapping both of them when my lapping kit gets here in a few days.
I'll share my results.

I'm running 1.315v btw. You could probably use less.
 
Thank you for the replies, but I don't think the appliance of thermal paste is the problem. I've tested with normal amount of thermal paste, bad results. Lots of thermal paste, much better results (still bad though). Now I don't think the mounting system is the greatest, but when I manually press the cooler the temps don't change a lot. And I live in a small country and cannot easily get all the little screws and 1 inch 2 inch whatever inch spirals required to build a mod. When I lower the Vcore, the system becomes kind of unstable.

But OK, probably there is not enough pressure in the IHS. When mounted, I can push on the cooler and it moves a couple of millimeters. I don't know the word in english, but... it's not rock steady. Either that or one of the surfaces is concave or convex. Could there be something in the way? Nothing that I see, anyway. Is there anyway for me to fix this, save for some crazy McGyver solution like grinding down the cooler/IHS surfaces like some mechanic maniac or building a mod out of kitchen appliances? Can I run the processor like this without permanent damage? 78 degrees is not terrible... just slightly terrible...

Maybe I should apply looots of AS5. It actually took down the temps more than 10 degrees.
 
But is it dangerous? The system seems kind of stable... but when I the put vCore at 1.400v I get BSODs all the time.

Always my bad luck... now with working BIOS settings the core temps are at max, 81 and 77 for CPU 0 and 1.
 
Xschtar said:
But is it dangerous? The system seems kind of stable... but when I the put vCore at 1.400v I get BSODs all the time.

Always my bad luck... now with working BIOS settings the core temps are at max, 81 and 77 for CPU 0 and 1.
Click to expand...

85'c is the MAXIMUM rated thermal condition for the chip. After 84.9'c it will stop executing instructions, and shut its self down to prevent immediate damage.

Any temperature above 70c is VERY stressful on the chip.
 
I've been over 85, I know that... crappy cooler... couldn't the sensors be malfunctioning? The temperatures should NOT be this high... argh I'm going crazy... maybe I'm actually better off with the stock cooler, huh?
 
Xschtar said:
I've been over 85, I know that... crappy cooler... couldn't the sensors be malfunctioning? The temperatures should NOT be this high... argh I'm going crazy... maybe I'm actually better off with the stock cooler, huh?
Click to expand...

Are you 100% certain the pins are in far enough? If you need THAT much paste for it to spread, there's obviously a problem with your contact (as you've mentionned). What were you getting with the stock cooler?

Additionally, you shouldn't need a Vcore past 1.35 to stabilize at less than 3.3ghz.
 
I need a high voltage, I don't know why. Maybe I messed up the CPU with the high temps. Here is a photo of the backside of the mobo and a blurry photo of the heatsink mounted. All the pins clicked, both the first time and now. I never tried the stock cooler, but I got a feeling it would work better. A huge 5 kg copper heatsink monster for nothing...






Oh, and also a picture of the case. The two blue fans on the door (side) blow on the GPX card (not seen on picture) and down on the heatsink. The unmounted 120mm fan sits by the memory sticks and blows the air through the heatsink, to the mounted 120mm fan in the back. There are also two 80mm fans blowing on the HDD:s. And this gives me temperatures that are now 57 idle and 80 full load. If someone had a magical solution I would be eternally (and internally) grateful.

 
LOL!

I just installed the stock cooler for the first time, and the temperatures dropped 10 degrees. This is really fucked up, sorry for the language but I am really disappointed right now. I've now been running at insane temps for almost a month, thinking my CPU was maxing at 45 degrees, and now I run the stock cooler instead of this 100 dollar copper giant, and my temps drop 10 degrees. I am gonna mail the store now and ask for a new one.

Do you guys think I might have damaged the CPU? Sometimes I have had to restart the computer because everything started hacking... like moving the mouse pointer went in steps. Could there be permanent damage? I might have been up in the 90s :( Damn I feel bad right now...

EDIT: I was a bit premature. The stock cooler maxes out (both cores full load for 5 minutes) at 78 degrees, still 2-4 degrees cooler than the Ninja. But this is the lousy stock cooler, so this is normal, right?
 
obivously it shows that the ninja having back contact with the cpu. you not going to see any improvement until you do something about that mounting.
 
Are the temps with the stock cooler normal? They're basically the same temps as the Ninja, 2-3 degrees cooler.
 
You should probably stop holding the mobo using the heatsink for starters, if that's what you're doing in that second pic. Otherwise, my bad.

So what are the temps at now? It's kind of unclear.
 
Ok, the temperatures:

With Scythe Ninja plus: idle 58, full load 80
With stock cooler: idle 56, full load 77

Is the stock cooler also to hot?
 
Xschtar said:
Are the temps with the stock cooler normal? They're basically the same temps as the Ninja, 2-3 degrees cooler.
Click to expand...

Drop the OC and set the system with stock timings. For comparison, my E6600 with a stock cooler and no OC is currently 30C.

If you can't get to the low 30's C without OC and with the stock Intel cooler, you probably have a problem with the thermal connection between the CPU and the cooler. If you can get decent temps, then your problem is likely with the fancy cooler.

One thing that comes to mind is that the heatpipes might have leaked and that's why there is no heat going to the fins. It is also possible that the heatpipes were not filled properly in the first place. If you have a source of heat that you can measure and apply to the contact surface of the cooler, you could rig up a simple test of the cooler performance independent of your computer. If you can do this and significant heat moves through the heat pipes and out the fins, then your problem is the contact with the fancy cooler.

Get a reference straightedge (e.g. a steel measuring ruler - test it against something else and the turn it 180 degrees and see if it is still straight) and slide it over both the CPU and the contact plate of the cooler. If you see light between the straightedge and either of those, you have a surface problem. If it's the cooler, send it back with a complaint. If it's the CPU, you might want to exchange that.

It is possible to refinish the surfaces, but that's another story and shouldn't be necessary IMHO.
 
Have you ever had good temps with this CPU?
If Not, then I would guess that the CPU and IHS is not making good contact and there is no amount of remounting the heat sink that will help. You have remounted two different heat sinks, I think it is safe to assume that the contact between the heat sink and IHS is good, that is saying that each heat sink is installed correctly. I would return the CPU.

When you overclock a CPU, it's not always as easy as just buying parts and installing them. I have modded everyone of my heat sinks to apply more pressure to ensure good contact.
Swiftech is a company that comes to mind when I think about who sells heat sinks that apply a good amount of pressure with the designed mounting system.
 
Ok, this is crazy.

With stock cooler and default everything, nothing overclocked, just regular E6600 @ 2.4 GHz, the temps are 56 idle and 65 full load. Slightly less on the second core. There is obviously something wrong with the CPU. Do you think it's possible to return it on the grounds of it being to hot? I threw away the box...
 
Xschtar said:
Ok, this is crazy.

With stock cooler and default everything, nothing overclocked, just regular E6600 @ 2.4 GHz, the temps are 56 idle and 65 full load. Slightly less on the second core. There is obviously something wrong with the CPU. Do you think it's possible to return it on the grounds of it being to hot? I threw away the box...
Click to expand...

You threw away the box?!?

Call or email Intel, and tell them you load in the low 70s and that your computer keeps crashing.
 
Xschtar said:
Ok, this is crazy.

With stock cooler and default everything, nothing overclocked, just regular E6600 @ 2.4 GHz, the temps are 56 idle and 65 full load. Slightly less on the second core. There is obviously something wrong with the CPU. Do you think it's possible to return it on the grounds of it being to hot? I threw away the box...
Click to expand...

Thats pretty dam hot for a CPU @ stock settings. Definitly something wrong with the CPU IHS concave or bad mounting.
 
If you feel like it, take out your CPU and set the end of a razorblade on it. See how flat your CPU is. See if light comes through.

If that made any sense.

Like this?

Razorblade |
__________|_____
|_____CPU______|
 
Just curious but have you ran the computer w/ the motherboard outside of the case? Let it get to load temperatures and feel the backside of the motherboard to see if it really is burning hot.

Also, while I doubt this is your problem, are these temps in centigrade?
 
In Celsius, yes... many different temp monitors show the same numbers. I have tested the motherboard outside of the case and it is hot. And yes, I threw away the box... I think. Is the box necessary for returning the item? I have the receipt... I haven't tested if the IHS is concave, I will do it soon.
 
Btw, I don't think I can email Intel for support because I don't live in the states, but rather in a small country where Intel probably doesn't have any support... at least I think so. The store won't take it back because they say 70 degrees is a perfectly OK temperature.
 
Xschtar said:
Btw, I don't think I can email Intel for support because I don't live in the states, but rather in a small country where Intel probably doesn't have any support... at least I think so. The store won't take it back because they say 70 degrees is a perfectly OK temperature.
Click to expand...

Why'd you say 70? If you're load temps were in the 80s you've got a problem.

Does THIS website work for you? It's intel's International email help.

Tell them that you're loading in the high 70's low 80s and that your retailer won't take it back.

Wherever you live, you'll just have to ship the chip back to the (Adaquately protected mind you, ask the intel rep for his recommendation of how to protect the chip, get his/her name and INCLUDE it with a note to intel after you ship it.)
 
Thank you Arcygenital for the link, now I'm just waiting hopefully from a reply from Intel. Just called my retailer, they think my temps are normal. Some girl called Johanna said "The processor is so hot because it has two cores, so it's normal" and that there was no point in returning the CPU to store...
 
Okay, I just remounted it for the 11th time and the temperatures are now very high. As you can see on the pictures, the form of the CPU was etched into the cooler. Not good, huh? I applied thermal paste with a razor and it went very well. The temperatures did not drop, however, on the contrary. I also noticed that two copper pipes are very close to a couple of transformators or condensators or something. At no clock my temps are very high, 50 idle and 70 full load. If I press on the cooler and apply a lot of pressure the temps drop 3 degrees. I still really need some help!





 
Mine didnt fit right the POS... so I dont use that big ass thing anymore...

I bought a Zalman CU9700 and OCed right to 3600MHz (400x9) Temps are about 42 idle, 52 load... good enough for me, perfectly stable
 
ninja.jpg
 
Xschtar said:
I also noticed that two copper pipes are very close to a couple of transformators or condensators or something.

Click to expand...

In that third photo, it looks like a part of the cooler is resting on the capacitor. You mentioned in an earlier post that there was a bit of play in the connection. It strikes me that you are not getting good contact.

You could test for the contact the way dentists test for bite - take a thin sheet of paper, like onion skin, and cover it with an ink that doesn't dry easily or a fine chalk. Lay it gently on the CPU and then place the cooler on the CPU (no cooler paste obviously). Then take them apart carefully and see if you get an even coating on both the CPU and the cooler's plate. If only a few spots are in contact, that should show with areas being devoid of any colour.
 
I also see contact on the capacitors. When you get your Ninja back, use tools to bend the heat pipe just a little bit so it will clear the capacitors.

Other than that, stop remounting it! Clean your processor's top and the HSF's bottom with some isopropyl 91%. Buy some Arctic Silver 5 and apply on the processor. Mount the replacement Ninja on.
 
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