PPU's Dead

T

TeamStrykerCore

[H]ard|Gawd
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Is it just me, or do you guys feel that PPU won't ever make mainstream like a lot of people tend to believe?

Kind of like that console.. what was the name phantom.

By mainstream i mean.. when you build a computer you need core components
like memory, cpu, hard drive..

Would ppu's be included in that list?
 
I don't think they'll ever become mainstream.

Not with multi-core processors.
 
blade52x said:
I don't think they'll ever become mainstream.

Not with multi-core processors.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Now I know the PPU-fanatics are going to yell and scream that "the PPU is much faster than even a quad core processor," and they're right, but who cares? Multi core cpu's are "good enough" for doing software physics, and I'm willing to bet that nearly every development studio would rather just use a multithreaded software physics engine (that everyone can run) over the propreitry PPU engines.

Very few studios are going to bother licensing and implementing the PPU engines when they know that very very VERY few people even have them to begin with.

Overall I see PPU's going the same way as hardware sound DSP's: they'll always be there lingering there on the edge, but no one ever really pushes them. Hardware sound chips are a perfect parallel: chips like the Audigys and X-Fi's are much more powerful than any software solutions, and yet most games (and even Vista itself!) do not use them at all (of if they do use them, it's just for some lame reverb effects or something).
 
Well I can aquse you'all for anti PPU fanatics.:)
Or just plain short sightness.

PPU sucses is depending on a killer app.
Most of those 120+ game are still in produktion and game making takes time. So Ageia sucsses or not will unveal in 2007/2008.
Favorite wich are possibility to that are Unreal 3 Cellfactor Revolution.

They arent out yet so if the are out 3 month and are populair we will know if the adoption to PPU will take on.

And off course PPU will be benched with those games.
And around mid 2007 that time Multicore isn't Mainstream yet but still expensive by then the scheapest will reach $500 And AMD have Quad FX
Multicore will reach mainstream in 2008.
And HavokFX might be roling out there first games and or patches mid 2007.
It's year will be 2008 to.

So where is the Corpse?

While it's alive and kicking hard becouse it has a bit of a rough time.

You mentioned PS3 I just geusing.
It just out while it sucses will show in the later years it must serve Sony.
That would be 10 years. So after 5 years you can say more on that.
Also what BR will do.

Unless you have a cristal boll.

It takes time to make games. Crap once in a year good once several years. And years aren't a garanty it will be good.

Just wait how it turns out.
 
I just simply think that Newer better CPU's and GPU's w/ multi-cores / their own physics processing units will outdo the current ppu's being developed.
 
TeamStrykerCore said:
I just simply think that Newer better CPU's and GPU's w/ multi-cores / their own physics processing units will outdo the current ppu's being developed.
Click to expand...

Well that's a good point. But it make common sense that Ageia must come with PPU2 to.
A produck cycle of 2 years is to long to be competable with the GPU solution.

And I think Ageia need replacement for there lightweight first attempd a bit sooner. Like say one year.

But depends also if Game devs keep supporting the free PhysX API.

A GPU do zero with PhysX. physX use CPU with that.
A PPU do nothing with Havok(FX) That will use CPU instead.

So the combination competes not just PPU alone.

So there are two markets level.
The middlware API PhysX or HavokFX
And what the gamers would buy for there games. And wich game will be populair.
that push the needs for PPU-cards and or G-card for Physics.
 
SuperGee said:
A GPU do zero with PhysX. physX use CPU with that.
A PPU do nothing with Havok(FX) That will use CPU instead.

So the combination competes not just PPU alone.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's not "will Ageia succeed or fail," Ageia just needs to make PhysX appealing enough to developers such that it is commonly adopted. The the only question is how many PhysX cards will be sold, they will be usefull regardless if PhysX takes off. If we have a robust open physics API which can be hardware accelerated then everyone wins, not just Ageia.

Also, to whoever made the comment about licensing physics engines. That shouldn't be an issue, given that PhysX is entirely open.
 
Hvatum said:
If we have a robust open physics API which can be hardware accelerated then everyone wins, not just Ageia.
Click to expand...

This is the most important piece of the puzzle. I'd like to see an open physics API. If it can be hardware accelerated, as you said, but provide software fallback (at a CPU hit) then everyone can get on the same page. As it stands, there isn't any one standard to comply to, so Havok and PhysX are kind of going their own way. This isn't good for anyone, really. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between PhysX physics implementations and the Havok variety. I don't see why there can't be a standard; everyone is trying to get to the same place, why not build a common road, rather than try to hike there two or three different ways.

Everyone wins that way.
 
Yes we need a standard API. Sure but where does a standard come from. From a market with no standard where there is a need created for a standard.
So before a standard there is first chaos. So the standard will come after the many choices wich are two in this case. That take just a lot more time then waiting for games to come out.
Hardware accelerated Physics is so new. We stand at the eve of the two solutions and a standard is far away but will come.

You can wish what you want but if you want to play the killer PhysX app optimal you need a PPU card. And for a killer HavokFX game you need that extra G-card.
If you don't want to spent dobble hardware then don't.
While others will enjoy there games in full in this nonstandart API period of a couple of years. The choice its to the costumer.
Non
one
Both
Depending on Budged and wich game the gonna like in the near future.

So there cant be a standart because no new market starts with a standard because first there is a competatitive new market with there own solution and then MS/OPEN.. steps in
As Dev's have a need for a standard.

And on top of it PhysX and havok FX are based on older Physics API. Novodex and Havok. They are proven Middleware highlevel API.

while the standard have to mature first Like Direc3d did in the years.
PhysX and HavokFX might coexcist for longer time. Of proven robustness and Devs are use to work with that.
And after a long time the standard will be just and get a large support form the dev world.

So I find it silly to look so far forward and keep wishing for something that will not be around any time soon.

What now count is the choice you wil make. Non, one, both.
 
I believe the main reason that ageia failied was in the fact that they were too greedy to begin with. Trying to sell developers a liscencing fee AND sell consumers cards left room for other things to be adopted.

Next, the physics shown currently is considered eye-candy. Until the game developers use physics to accurately predict and compensate for things like bullet-wall erosion, or aircraft damage, or vehicle damage and reaction then there is no real reason for it.

After that, there is the network traffic. In a multiplayer game does one client handle all of the effects? That would cause a spike if 32 or 64 or possibly even 3 other people are playing on the internet. Do they all handle their own effects? How many objects now need to be tracked? Is someone going to come up with a slick algorithm that allows for all computers to process the same objects flying around and reacting off each other exactly? It took the valve team years to get accurate hit-box prediction down. What about when that is multiplied 100 fold? So we say ok, it will all be handled by the dedicated server. It will only cost 5 thousand a month to operate, and since the physics cards are only needed for one out of every 50 computers and are now required to be 1U pcix or Sata cards they cost three thousand apeice.

On the flip side of this, with the DX10 specifications, and AMD and Nvidia working on streaming processors (gpu's with multipurpose core logic) we could very well see havoc having a version that runs on gaming computers. As far as ageia, hopefully there is some sort of collector value attached to the cards in 10 years. They had a great idea, but bad business model.
 
I think it will be mainstream if two conditions are met and maintained. First there needs to be at least one hot title for it like say UT2007 or maybe HL2. That or some of the new expansions supporting it for say BF2. The second thing that needs to happen is pricing. Right now I'm seeing them sell for almost $300 CAD. Drop that down by half and I'll even pick one up.

As for new CPU's? I don't think this makes sense at all really. First of all these new CPU's are top end and carry a top end price needing new motherboards. It is not like you can just go buy one and plop one in. (We all don't run a hardware site) Most people especially gamers seem to forget mainstream by definition means "common" If you do any kind of searching you notice that most common configs are not top end CPU's. Most I would say are single core CPU's running DDR1 ( Valves polls point this fact out clearly) So using this logic most people around the world are not going to get away with a top end Intel CPU or AMD CPU to void the need for a PPU.

So the question begs to ask: What is most likely going to be common, a PPU for under $200 or a quad core CPU system for $2000? My vote goes to the PPU and obvously other big names think so to like Asus, BFG to name a few!
 
Processors are 100% necessary, and WILL drop in price, so I think your last statement is moot.

I think Ageia and the ppu has no chance simply from a standpoint of space. Many mobo's right now simply don't have the room once you throw in the all-important graphics card or two, your sound card and whatever other cards need tossed in such as tv tuners, usb or...what have you.

Those folks who want the most from their systems are what Ageia is targeting as their core market. This is the same group that will have their pc case stuffed full of gaming goodness already. Sure there might be room for a ppu, but if there's an argument of space and cost vs. usability, I don't know that Ageia's answer will win.

There still remains that killer app, and hard evidence that a software/graphics solution can't produce effects that are nearly as good if not equal to what you'd get from Ageia.
 
all of this reminds me of the APIs Glide vs OpenGL, guess which one won !, so an open physics engine would be a VERY big step from AGEIA to really make his product mainstream IMHO
 
"Processors are 100% necessary, and WILL drop in price, so I think your last statement is moot."

You missed the point totally. Game makers make there living on the common denominator. They build there games on the basis of what most people will have. now not tomorow. Fact is regardless if you can accept it or not, is that most people won't and don't have multiple-core CPU's. So saying that the CPU will void the need for a PPU is silly at best unless everyone out there pretty much at the same time upgrades there entire systems pretty much at the same time! lol Not gonna happen dude sorry...

Realistically the only ones that are in any position to by-pass the need for a PPU is the dude with the pizza box on his desk with the name Fatality. Or the dude running a hardware site such as this one who gets hardware to test as it comes out. Take me for example. I consider myself a gamer who knows the technology but simply can't aford to upgrade my system twice per year to have the lastest. I just migrated to PCI-Express and that took a new motherboard and memory and a video card. But guess what? My motherboard dosen't support multiple cores only 04a 04b procs. Does it makes sense for me to buy another motherboard/chipset/ CPU just so I can not really need a PPU? Heck no!! I would sooner run out and buy a simple add-on card for hundreds less...
 
aramis said:
Processors are 100% necessary, and WILL drop in price, so I think your last statement is moot.

I think Ageia and the ppu has no chance simply from a standpoint of space. Many mobo's right now simply don't have the room once you throw in the all-important graphics card or two, your sound card and whatever other cards need tossed in such as tv tuners, usb or...what have you.

Those folks who want the most from their systems are what Ageia is targeting as their core market. This is the same group that will have their pc case stuffed full of gaming goodness already. Sure there might be room for a ppu, but if there's an argument of space and cost vs. usability, I don't know that Ageia's answer will win.

There still remains that killer app, and hard evidence that a software/graphics solution can't produce effects that are nearly as good if not equal to what you'd get from Ageia.
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MB space is a huge problem. I just ordered a Geforce GTS 8800 which takes up two slots, and I already have an M-Audio revolution sound card. That leaves me with one slot, and an extra card would have to be crammed in between the sound card and the two-slot video card. Air flow becomes a huge problem, because top end video cards generate a lot of heat. Sure, I could ditch my high end sound card, but I know for a fact that it enhances my games, and it also enhances my music and movies. My MB has sound, but I don't mind spending extra for noticeably better performance and a better experience.

Your last statement is the clear dividing line; we still need an application and hard evidence that a hardware solution provides an experience and performance that is noticeably superior to software. When that day comes, I'll be in line buying one, but I'll probably be buying a new MB, too, because I'm currently out of room.
 
"MB space is a huge problem. I just ordered a Geforce GTS 8800 which takes up two slots"

This is the problem of the video card makers. It is kind of funny because barely 5 years ago most motherboards had slots galore. I remember on my P3V4X there were 6 PCI slots. Having VGA cards that take up 2 or even 3 is silly and a huge design flaw. I won't buy a video card if the cooling solution on it is as big as my keyboard lol. Because first that tells me the manufacturer is concerned that it runs hot and also it tells me that the engineer that designed it was an idiot with the audacity to assume there card is the only piece of hardware I will want in my motherboard.
 
maleficarus said:
"MB space is a huge problem. I just ordered a Geforce GTS 8800 which takes up two slots"

This is the problem of the video card makers. It is kind of funny because barely 5 years ago most motherboards had slots galore. I remember on my P3V4X there were 6 PCI slots. Having VGA cards that take up 2 or even 3 is silly and a huge design flaw. I won't buy a video card if the cooling solution on it is as big as my keyboard lol. Because first that tells me the manufacturer is concerned that it runs hot and also it tells me that the engineer that designed it was an idiot with the audacity to assume there card is the only piece of hardware I will want in my motherboard.
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Design flaw or not, that's the way they are making them. What is a gamer to do? Not buy a high end video card so that they can fit a physics card in their system? Or are we supposed to all move to water cooling?

May I respectfully suggest that you post in the video card section and advise the people in there that their cards have "design flaws", and that they would be much better off using a lower end single slot card and a physics card? I'm sure the reaction will be overwhelming, but I doubt it will be one of agreement.
 
1) I have a 680i board with an extra PCI-e x 8 slot waiting for nvidia's physics solution and /or Ageia's PCI-e card. If it looks good I'll buy one, that's why I bought the 680i board.

2) The Ageia card has been out since GRAW......where is their "killer game".....they are late to the dance and about to be replaced by nvidia if they dont hurry up.
 
Perhaps im a bit behind with this discussion, but I can agree with most points that have been said already. Though, I dont quite agree that the "PPU is dead" argument to be a true one, I can imagine having options of multi-core software rendering, or using some common platform, similar to OpenGL (but for physics). AMD is supposedly going to have a quad-core within a year or so, Intel already has a quad-core, and both AMD and intel have had dual cores for quite some time now, which leaves 1 to 3 more cores to use.

For example, I just downloaded a game called Rigs of Rods (freeware download). Its basically, a truck driving simulator. Graphics isnt anything to get excited about, but the physics calculations grind my 3000+ A64 to a crawl. Im trying to imagine games 5 years from now... I dont claim to know everything about games, I dont even claim to really understand whats going on, but my basic understanding is there are a few big peices to making a game work, Physics, processing the user inputs/loading data, and the graphics.

Assuming, 5 years from now, that AMD and intel are making at least, quad cores for the lower/mid cost cpus, what can three additional cores do for a game, aside from physics, which would give a noticable improvement? Using a core or two for physics may not be the fastest option avalible for games, but neither is buying a budget video card and a sempron/celeron, even though people manage to play games that way. I see it just coming down to whats avalible (software and hardware), and for how much.

The multi-core cpus are going to be common in the future more than ever, whether someone wanted one or not (unless intel and amd plan on keeping a single-core processor). As far as the "PPU dead" question, Its really more a question of "will some universal software physics platform exist"?.

Though thats just my $0.02
 
The PPU is dead....

We don't need a dedicated physics processing unit.

It's not like someone popped up out of the blue and said
let's put physics into games / calculations. That's been done
for years.

I will agree to the point that how physics are calculated in games
or programs will changed with new quad cores / qbits / etc different
processing options coming out.
 
At this point, I agree that the PPU will never become mainstream. I hope it does, as another option to customers, but at this point it looks doubtful.

Multi-core CPUs are not what will kill (has killed?) the PPU, however. It is GPU physics that will prevail. GPU physics are still something that everyone with a modern video card can (or will be able to in the future) take advantage of, and they outperform multi-core CPUs by a long shot.

It seems that a lot of people here are opposed to GPU physics and want CPU physics instead. I don't see why. You won't have to buy anything (other than having a DX10 graphics card, and by the time hardware physics becomes mainstream, you will), and the system will outperform one based on even a quad-core CPU.

Quad-core CPUs may be "good enough", as someone said at the beginning of this thread, but GPU physics are much better and almost as easy.

I also don't understand why some people say "we don't need hardware physics acceleration". WIth GPU physics, you don't have to buy anything, you don't need extra slots in your computer, and you get a better overall gaming experience. Who cares if we need it? Since it only makes things better, why not take it anyway?
 
Remember when GPU's used to be wayyyyy more technologically advanced than cpu's.... *I know at times they still can be*
 
magoo said:
1) I have a 680i board with an extra PCI-e x 8 slot waiting for nvidia's physics solution and /or Ageia's PCI-e card. If it looks good I'll buy one, that's why I bought the 680i board.

2) The Ageia card has been out since GRAW......where is their "killer game".....they are late to the dance and about to be replaced by nvidia if they dont hurry up.
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No, they won't be replaced by Nvidia - if they do, it will be short-term.

If Intel has it's way, both PPUs and GPUs will be replaced by x86-based stream processors with dozens of simple cores. While this concept design will never see the light of day, a true product based off this technology might be closer to the Cell design, with a few complex cores and a couple dozen stream processors.

AMD already saw the tide changing, and shelled out for ATI so they could create a competing hybrid designs. AMD will start on the low-end with their Fusion, but once their entire product line includes the GPU-on-chip, there's no stopping developers from taking advantage of it (much like the gradual acceptance of SSE - today, EVERY new program uses it).

AMD hopes that software will evolve over time to tap into the unused potential of a CPU that houses a powerful GPU. Down the road, Fusion could accelerate security and cryptography algorithms and more mainstream applications such as image and video processing.
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PPUs are dead on arrival, and GPUs won't be around much longer. The only question on my mind is: where will Nvidia be in 10 years? They'll be dead, unless they find a buyer (not Intel), or they completely re-invent themselves.

Unfortunately for Nvidia, having a 10-year jump in the stream processing arena will not be enough to keep up with Intel, let alone AMD+ATI.
 
Im an nvidia fan.boy!!!!!!.. I seriously agree with their statement. They are going to be in a world of hurt unless someone picks them up.
 
"PPUs are dead on arrival, and GPUs won't be around much longer. The only question on my mind is: where will Nvidia be in 10 years? They'll be dead, unless they find a buyer (not Intel), or they completely re-invent themselves."

GPU's are soon to be dead? lol How you figure that?
 
maleficarus said:
"Processors are 100% necessary, and WILL drop in price, so I think your last statement is moot."

You missed the point totally. Game makers make there living on the common denominator. They build there games on the basis of what most people will have. now not tomorow. Fact is regardless if you can accept it or not, is that most people won't and don't have multiple-core CPU's. So saying that the CPU will void the need for a PPU is silly at best unless everyone out there pretty much at the same time upgrades there entire systems pretty much at the same time! lol Not gonna happen dude sorry...

Realistically the only ones that are in any position to by-pass the need for a PPU is the dude with the pizza box on his desk with the name Fatality. Or the dude running a hardware site such as this one who gets hardware to test as it comes out. Take me for example. I consider myself a gamer who knows the technology but simply can't aford to upgrade my system twice per year to have the lastest. I just migrated to PCI-Express and that took a new motherboard and memory and a video card. But guess what? My motherboard dosen't support multiple cores only 04a 04b procs. Does it makes sense for me to buy another motherboard/chipset/ CPU just so I can not really need a PPU? Heck no!! I would sooner run out and buy a simple add-on card for hundreds less...
Click to expand...


No, I didn't miss the point, honestly. You actually raise some good points. I am still running an aging AGP system myself, and am in the same boat as you. What I'm saying is that the $2000 processor today is going to be a "$200" processor in the future. I'm saying that the GPU and CPU solutions are going to end up being built-in, instead of needing to look for yet another expansion card.

Also, EVERYONE currently is in a position to bypass the need for a PPU. Everyone who doesn't own a PPU but plays games like GRAW, HL2, Oblivion, or any other game that makes extensive use of physics is bypassing it. That's just my point. I can play these games without this card. I don't need it, and heck, with things as they are currently, I don't want it.

Take Crysis and Alan Wake for example. I'm salivating over these games and may upgrade. Those are killer apps for DX10 and thus to me warrant looking into an upgrade. What does Ageia have?

... the answer continues to be nothing. And until they do, the PPU is going to be dead.
 
maleficarus said:
"PPUs are dead on arrival, and GPUs won't be around much longer. The only question on my mind is: where will Nvidia be in 10 years? They'll be dead, unless they find a buyer (not Intel), or they completely re-invent themselves."

GPU's are soon to be dead? lol How you figure that?
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Seconded. The specific power of a GPU can NEVER be matched by a CPU unless it has an obnoxious number of cores. GPUs aren't going anywhere.

Physics, on the other hand, unlike graphics, aren't moving forward exponentially. Right now, we're at the "good enough" stage, and there's not much farther to go. A PPU is useless.
 
I wouldn't say the PPU is dead... However, I would say that the Ageia solution to a PPU is dead.

Nvidia and ATI will pickup where it left off.
 
doesn't nvidia 8800 stream gpu process vertix, pixel, and geometry units aka physics?

8800 geometry > aegia ppu.
 
djBon2112 said:
Seconded. The specific power of a GPU can NEVER be matched by a CPU unless it has an obnoxious number of cores. GPUs aren't going anywhere.

Physics, on the other hand, unlike graphics, aren't moving forward exponentially. Right now, we're at the "good enough" stage, and there's not much farther to go. A PPU is useless.
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I think he's talking about raytracing, which actually works better on a CPU than a GPU. We will still need a GPU, however, even if it is really just another CPU core. We'll still need it to have a direct interface to specialized graphics memory, video output jacks, additional power connector...etc.
 
Ockie said:
I wouldn't say the PPU is dead... However, I would say that the Ageia solution to a PPU is dead.

Nvidia and ATI will pickup where it left off.
Click to expand...

I tnink not. The API PhysX with PPU support must die first.

PPU cant die if there are coming many PhyX games supporting PPU. Agianst a few HavokFX games.

The busness competition is on two levels and the depend on each other.

120+ games suppor tfor PPU means there are coming a lot of games supporting PPU.
even if Performance sucks it is the only hardware to enhance PhysX games.
while Havok FX can use from budged to High-end G-card for Physics.

It's PhysX+ PPU vs HavokFX + GPU.

Free Dev support keeps PPU alive.

PPU can performe less because it cost like a budged to midrange G-card. It doesn't compete with R600 or G80 more with something around $200.

A 8600SE wich mean nothing if you play PhysX games because for that you need a PPU.

Then you cant bench both solution agianst each other because most Games support just one solution.
So you depend on Shynthetical bench suits.
And games do differentt thing with physics.

So the value is what PhysX and HavokFX games are doing with it.
How the enhance there games with hardware accelerated Physics. But then done in a goodway for a populair game.

If those games keeps away like all of them are graw 'ish. and a few HavokFX title are done right. then PPU would Die a slow death. But that is still far away.

Could be Havok FX first 10 titles in 2007 won't push HavokFX much.
But a lot off those 120+ games are out by then and a few good once are between them.

Ageia Could rise out off it Coma.

Well I wait and see. Need a PPU2 :)
 
I didn't get this. If you spend 200$ on a 8600 and 200$ on a ageia ppu why not get a 400$ 8800gts?
 
SuperGee said:
<snip>
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The difference however is that support/use of the PhysX engine DOES NOT mean the game will support the physics card. The card support needs to be hard coded in by itself, and there are VERY FEW games that have/are doing that.

The idea of a dedicated PPU, at least right now, is dead. In 2 years I don't know, maybe ATI/Nvidia/Aegia will release something again that'll take the gaming world by storm. But right now, it's useless and dead.
 
djBon2112 said:
The difference however is that support/use of the PhysX engine DOES NOT mean the game will support the physics card. The card support needs to be hard coded in by itself, and there are VERY FEW games that have/are doing that.
Click to expand...

Yes, but every game that works with the PhysX engine is another game that will not work with the Havok engine.
 
djBon2112 said:
The difference however is that support/use of the PhysX engine DOES NOT mean the game will support the physics card. The card support needs to be hard coded in by itself, and there are VERY FEW games that have/are doing that.
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Agiea and PPU needs a killer game. That means at least one out off
120 must be. More are also welkom what makes it sucses stronger.
It just need to be having this:
1 Popular game.
2 use PPU enhanced Gameplay Physx or good effectphysics

More of those are welcome. But it does not need to be all of them. A few at best within 6 month for now.

So for succes you don't need every PhysX game use PPU. Only a decent part like 1/3 or 1/4 1/2 would be better.

It's important that a few good PhysX PPU enable Games stand out of the larger field of PhysX games.
I dont expect that all PhysX game would be something to buy. It's normal that 2 out of 3 are bad in the industry. But that not a problem. I won't play buy 120+ game sin 2 years.
Like alway I choose what I like best . And off course that have not be PhysX game perse.
Crysis is not one of them.
The idea of a dedicated PPU, at least right now, is dead.
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No it's just new, like born. It must grow in the years because it take years to make games.
More then six month out isn't a long time in the industry it's a short one. Especialy for something new. Dev's must adopt and make games using it. 2 to 5 years take a game to make. some of those 120+ are in end produktion like in 6 month some will be ready. other will be next year. Others are in preproduktion.
Havok just roled out it's FX addon. Havok titles are starting to implement it mid produktion for Patches. They running a small year behind.
In 2 years I don't know, maybe ATI/Nvidia/Aegia will release something again that'll take the gaming world by storm. But right now, it's useless and dead.
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Well Ageia say it aimed produktion cycle will be 2 years. But that 2009. It's about what wil you do with games coming out begin 2007 to end 2008.

Cellfactor Revolution and UT2007 Unreal are pssible games that come out mid 2007.

It use and value depends on the games that are coming out.
Lucky you don't work in a hostpital because you burry live people.
It's use will grow but I geuss to slow for you.
Software and HArdware migrate slowly. Yes I know waiting is no fun.
 
PPU isn't dead. It' the Edsel of 2006 and it will take Fanfare to make something more of it.
Where are the legions of WOW users crying for physics? Thats right they need RPGs and FPS-RPGs like AVP3.
The current PPU may be outdated by the time a killer app arives. However they can make an updated version. Thats the price for buying into new tech.

As for an open Physics API, I agree 100%. Make something MAC and Linux ( YES LINUX!) users can playwith. Take away the requirement for DirectX Microsoft and you will find your killer apps and legion of fans.

Remember Quake3? It played on Windows, Mac, BeOS!, And about everything else.
The "Killer App" for the PPU may actually be a consortium of open apps making for more realistic gameplay across the OS world. Meaning Open AI, OpenGL, Open PPU? and even OpenArtifical Intelligence. Sort of a DirectX for everything with steep optimum requirements, for everyone who hates Microsoft. Then develop games and programs for that.
If the dont make an OPEN COMPLETE Program for all hardware then the PPU will become the CueCat of 2008! Remember http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCatCUECAT? or those who remember the videos for Cuecat they talked of future programs, ect and how EVERY computer would have one. Shit they gave them away and they were fun but other than using them to get to your BEER companies homepage it was useless.
Though they could have marketed them to the Lottery Commision to check peoples lottery tickets and EVERYONE would still use them as people are lazy, and trust the minimum wage zombie at the of Quikie mart to check the numbers for them....See right there is Cuecat's "Killer App" 10 years too late!
 
SuperGee said:
And I think Ageia need replacement for there lightweight first attempd a bit sooner. Like say one year.
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i wouldnt call their first attempt lightweight. it didnt have the software title support as of the release date, or as of now for that matter. but releasing a brand new major computer component is no small feat. i agree that there isnt much use for physx and there is absoloutely no reason anyone should buy one, with the exception of having the bleeding edge in technology, even if it lacks function. i will say i bought one of the BFG cards off ebay for like 75 bucks cause i wanted to see what it could do. the few pieces of software that support it (namely cell factor, which is a 1lvl beta) looked beautiful. there is some real potential here but its far from being a necessary card to have. when the software end of physx catches up it will be interesting to see just how much difference there is between a physx card and just using a quad core processor. i think there will be a need for these cards eventualy, just not yet.

edit: haha i have 4 cuecats i stole from a local news station kiosk in the mall about a decade ago. i turned 1 into a barcode scanner for my x486 with a little C+ code, and the other i used the cord to replace a cord i broke off an old dot matrix printer... those were the days. too bad they arent giving away physx cards

i wouldnt liken the cuecat to physx cards (just yet- it needs time to fail first heh) there is no where near the marketing blitz on PPUs as there was on the CueCat, and physx is still up-and-coming, it has alot of potential unlike a cat shaped barcode scanner (literaly)
 
maleficarus said:
"PPUs are dead on arrival, and GPUs won't be around much longer. The only question on my mind is: where will Nvidia be in 10 years? They'll be dead, unless they find a buyer (not Intel), or they completely re-invent themselves."

GPU's are soon to be dead? lol How you figure that?
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ROFL...Allot of peeps in this thread,well at least the posts made in the last few days are on Crack/LSD,and must have a crystal ball as well. :D AMD who is near in the shitter now financially is going to put Nvidia out of its misery !?!?! I thought taking hard drugs were illegal in the USA ? :p Ageia is a flop,as is there card... Being in a state of denial over a failed piece of tech,is one thing fellas,being dellusional is another eniterly. :D

Hardware acceleration of Physics will be done via CUDA/SP's in DX10 gpu's,and or dual/quad core cpu's.The killer should have arrived ages ago,and has not,and the one small light at the far end of the proverbial tunnel is UT3,which has again been further delayed... And even then,this is all rumour and hearsay,until its been reviewed and is on store shelves for easy purchase.And even then I still have to shell out allot of cash for what I and many,many other think to be questionable at best,technology...
 
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