Issues with Buyer

M

MC FLMJIG

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
4,516
I sold a water cooling kit about 2 weeks ago. I received + feedback over 10 days ago as well. I tested the kit and packaged it carefully and made sure no moving parts. I kept tight communication with the person, answered question as fast as I could and gave advice. Everything went well.

Recently, however, I received an email that the rad was broken and that their VC and X-Fi was destroyed.

I sell a ton of stuff overseas and ever so often sell here in the states. I make sure what I sell is in the condition stated and that there are pics. I also know how important shipping is. Above all my rep is very important to me.

I don't feel like this is my fault yet I was willing to go halfsies on another rad. I even looked for a place and sent a link but I don't think the person wants this though. I'm debating on what to do. I will reiterate that I made sure everything worked before I sent and packaged well. There's a tad more but I'm sleepy... :)

Advice would be nice as I've never faced this kind of issue before.
 
Hmm...this happens to a lot of people.

Ask the buyer if he would like to return the item for you to inspect. Also, you are not liable for any damages to his computer because he was the one who put it in his computer, not you, so if he asks if you can replace his damaged devices, say no.

Also, this happened 2 weeks ago. That is way too much time for the buyer to report a problem. He should have report it like maybe a day after receiving it. Sometimes it clearly states that the buyer has received it in working condition, but while use, he broke it and put the blame on you.

Also, check his feedback. Read through it carefully.

Did you sell the item as-is. No refunds?

I hope this helps. :)
 
I believe that rad is strongest part of all the w/c kit, how could it be broken during shipping if all the other parts are still ok!

I dont know whos that person to whom you have sold this w/c kit, but you look experienced and trustable seller here!

Anyway smart person would do some leak test before setting this w/c on system! So you shouldn't be sorry about other damaged parts! And I'm not saying that you should be sorry for damaged rad! Maybe you should ask him to provide you with some photos with this rad to see how its damaged!

So for now I'm on your side! ;)
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I will ask for proof and/or pics.

Well. To clear a few things out...

I received positive feedback on 4-05 . DHL delivered it on 4-04 @ 1:55 pm.

I received the complaint early this morning. The first email said it was broken from get go. I them told them they were suppose to check for a few hours b4 fully installing it. They then emailed me stating that they had connected it for 12 hours and there were no problems and then they placed their hardware in and then it broke. Gushing all over the place. :rolleyes:
 
MC FLMJIG said:
Thanks for the advice guys. I will ask for proof and/or pics.

Well. To clear a few things out...

I received positive feedback on 4-05 . DHL delivered it on 4-04 @ 1:55 pm.

I received the complaint early this morning. The first email said it was broken from get go. I them told them they were suppose to check for a few hours b4 fully installing it. They then emailed me stating that they had connected it for 12 hours and there were no problems and then they placed their hardware in and then it broke. Gushing all over the place. :rolleyes:
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With the text in bold red, the buyer has stated that the item arrived working. That statement just ends this issue. :) What I mean is that the buyer received the item working, then he broke it by placing his hardware in. That was his action to put in the hardware, not yours.

Also, the item arrived to the buyer on the 4th, and he complained this Sunday morning which is the 15th. That gave the buyer a lot of time to use the item, so basically that means that he broke it while use. He should have reported it earlier.

In conclusion, you need to tell him that that was his action to put in his hardware and he should have reported the problem earlier.

I say that the seller wins this case. :D If my advice does not end this issue, I'm still on your side. :)
 
Agreed. You are not at fault. The buyer at ample time to report a problem and did nothing and ontop of that he stated in his email it worked fine before it broke.

If this somehow ended up with you being liable, that will set a precedent for all future transactions @ [H]ardforums.

not really...I just watch too much Law and Order
 
Not starting to smell good? I dont have a digital camera or a cell phone with a camera, that is your problem, not mine. You had best figure out what your plan of action is in regards to getting me something in return, else a paypal claim will be filed and then you will definitely wish you had been a little more curtious to me in the first place. I will only ship the radiator back to you only after you have figured out what you are going to do. Otherwise I'll throw it away because it is broken. Im tired of arguing over the internet about this, if you would like to resolve the problem, buy me a new radiator. Fair and square-yours was broken, I need a new one.

MC FLMJIG said:
No one has a digital camera or cell phone? I want to see the puncture of the Radiator. I want to see what the problem is. I want to see how this is messed up.

Also regarding shipping the rad back... If it doesn't work then why can't you ship it back?

I sent it all in perfect working order. Refund is out of the question unless you ship me the entire unit back and I see how messed up it really is.

I also find it very difficult to see how the barbs were severely bent. This entire ordeal is no starting to smell good.

Good day.

F L M

Good morning. There is not much to be confused about. I do not have a digital camera to send you pictures, nor do I want to fill up the loop again just so I can show you water flowing everywhere. Water does not leak out of the tube connections, as they are clampd with worm drive clamps and are sealed tight. One side of the radiator is faulty. The barbs on the radiator were also severeley bent. In all fairness I should have returned the product to you in the first place, no hassle. I will NOT ship you the radiator back, as I will be left without a computer for a while and I cannot have that, as I am a student. I am endeavoring to work this out amicably...please either refund my money or buy me a radiator that is better.


MC FLMJIG said:
Morning.

I'm a little confused now. I'll explain later.

Can you please send me pics of where the rad is broken? OR, can you send it to me so that I can inspection it and see how it was broken before I shipped it.


With all respect sir, your feedback is of absolutely no consequence to me. No hardware was inside the case initially, as there were no leaks for the first 12 hours that i primed the pump. After that, I turned off the pump, connected the peripherals, and turned the pump back on. There was an immediate stream of water jetting out of the radiator. So much coolant and water got into the cards that even without a live current, the cards were ruined. This is absolutely unacceptable to me. I assumed you were trustworthy prior to buying from you, and maybe you are, but I refuse to lose my hard earned money and hardware because of carelessness on someone elses part. I don't wish to turn this into a paypal fiasco, because we both know that it will take a toll on your account, and I dont need that. I respectfully request that you either buy me a new radiator or immediately refund my money. As for the cards, I can live with a dead GPU and xfi, but I cannot take out all the tubing and water blocks again for fear of further damage. Again, I dont consider this is any way a reflection of ur dealings or character, but I am thoroughly displeased.

Maruxxx


MC FLMJIG said:
You're suppose to install the rad and water kit 1st before you place ANY hardware in the case. There should be at least a few hours with the pump running to make sure all is okay. Then and only if it's okay one places the hardware in.

That is impossible! I checked it before I put the add on. I also packed it tight with newspapers making sure it touched NOTHING. I stand firm on this. I have impeccable feedback on heatware and even when I sell overseas!

Even though it is NOT my fault because it was in USABLE and WORKING condition when I sent, I'd still be able to help you on half on another rad of similar price.

http://www.overcool.com/exec/product.asp?userid=99942576596930&item_id=29998&add_id=29998

Comes out to $32 and I'm willing to give you half.

F L M


The radiator you sold me leaked EVERYWHERE when i turned on the pump. It seems it was cracked and broken before i even installed it. Contact me and LMK what you can do about this...both my graphics card and XFI are now gone because of this. Needless to say I am not happy.
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Here is letter to the T from the beginning of this fiasco.
I took persons H name of to keep confidential.
They are also a noobie - ... yea my fault. NO posts whatsoever.

Starts from bottom to the top.
 
He's lying and scamming you. Give him nothing.

If it were me, I'd talk to the mods to see if he can get banned for trying to blackmail and extort you through use of his fake story.

With the PayPal end, who knows if you'll get screwed, but as long as you had delivery confirmation and supply them with the PMs along with an explanation how how it is IMPOSSIBLE for this to have happened (ie: if he tested it and there were no leaks the problem was clearly on his end when he hooked up his hardware) you shouldn't get screwed through PP.

At least put this guys name on here so other people know not to deal with him.
 
No kidding. The part about not shipping it back because he'd be left without a PC seals the fact that he's lying about it being broken. Total BS. PayPal will NOT side in his favor unless he provides proof that he either did not receive the item or has proof that he received the item broken. That implies photographs of the broken item at the time of receiving it. If you can give PayPal the tracking information, and a copy of what you just posted to the forums, you're pretty much in the clear here.
 
Tell him to send it back or piss off. If he doesn't send it back, stop replying to him. If he opens a PayPal dispute, place the tracking number in and say "buyer refuses to demonstrate that it is or ever was broken and will not ship the item back for inspection" and I guarantee you will not lose the dispute.
 
The dude doesn't even have any posts. Of course hes trying to screw you. He think that he will get his money back and then never ship you the busted radiator.

Red my above post. You're set.
 
:p :p :p

Boo fxxxxxx hoo, you found a retarded and misguides thread about how i am a troll. Just because some pussies over at anandtech dont have dropped balls doesnt mean i have ever been dishonest or stolen anything in my life. Now get me a new radiator, I wont ask you again.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MC FLMJIG
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=2013144

Have a good day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oczman
Look Im tired of this. Stop complaining about the lack of a camera. Im not gonna make the radiator leak again to show you that it is broken. This is your last chance, either you offer to buy me a better radatior, such as a Thermochill, or I will turn this over to Paypal. Ill tell you again, I will not ship you the rad back. I dont have to prove anything to you...the rad leaks from both the inside and the outside...no cracks are visible amongst black paint and droplets of water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MC FLMJIG
I want to see for myself how badly this rad is destroyed. Ship it to me so that I can see. Since you don't have a camera the only way is for you to ship it to me.

Do as you wish. I'm sorry for the situation but I know what I sent and have pics before I shipped.

F L M
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I hate this junk. The dude needs marked and banned. Paypal will not do anything with him refusing to send it back. ANY company requires that for RMA.
 
Well Vert hit it dead on man. That guy is a troll. You can easily tell it is the same guy because he lists his location in Palos Verdes, as well as having the same name mentioned in the troll thread. Funny..... I read that troll thread a while back and when I saw you post his name was oczman, It sounded familiar. Anyways, its obvious he is a bad trader. Unfortunately for you, I guess you dont check AT often, that would have given him up. AT forum is great as well, you should always check the troll threads there before doing a deal.

Also it looks like he was last online today. Im sure he will probably be banned now.
 
I dont know what kind of rad you have sold to him, but I believe it is some of the cheap ones! And its funny that now he's asking for Thermochill one :D

Now I'm definitely on your side MC FLMJIG and wish you luck to end it up with this troll soon! ;)
 
So you sold him a $25 radiator and now he wants a Thermochill and "won't ask you again". I hope he doesn't see this thread cuz I wanna see his next PM. :D

If he leaves malicious heat, send heatware staff a link to this thread and it will be erased.
 
Cool. Thanks!

I sold him a waterkit (Swiftech Premium). It was in very good condition. It was used less than 6 months. Probably close to 3.

No, I don't go to AT. Good advice. I like H. I'm a member of a few more but really reside here. :)
 
I will NOT ship you the radiator back, as I will be left without a computer for a while and I cannot have that,
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if the rad was "broken" and "destroying his computer" then how does shipping it back change anything?

GL with paypal if it comes to that!
 
Paypal isnt going to do anything.. all they care about is if he received the package or not. Especially forum buys, they don't care.
 
Tell him to try this on someone a stupid as him and it might work.....:)
Other than that, give him nothing.
Paypal wont do anything to you as long as you can prove he received it....
 
Hahaha.. owned!

MC FLMJIG owes nothing!

And I hope that the thing actually did destroy his VC and X-Fi! :) Yes.. I am evil!
 
doggyworld said:
Hahaha.. owned!

MC FLMJIG owes nothing!

And I hope that the thing actually did destroy his VC and X-Fi! :) Yes.. I am evil!
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The buyer might be lying about his VC and X-Fi destroyed.... ;) Then again....I have the same thoughts.

So OP, I say you have won the case. Just tell the buyer to f**k off. :p
 
This was an interesting read. Hope he (buyer) removes himself from the gene pool.
 
Why dont you feedback him. If he tried to buy from someone and they never saw this thread.....they would have no clue.

EDIT

Wait, I noticed you did already give him positive heat :eek:
 
I agree with the others. Heh, though really, I posted because something jumped out at me...it makes me sad to see he's from my hometown. Though really, doesn't surprise me.

Heh, knowing the people there, he's probably a rich, spoiled "gangsta"-wannabe brat who screwed up and killed his own system and is now throwing a tantrum about it. Or he just decided to try to con someone into buying him a better rad because mommy wouldn't pay for one. Though the first makes me grin. =P

Anyhow, good luck getting this mess settled!
 
This is the dumbest case of im a stupid scammer who has no idea how to scam! :)
He blatently admited the rad worked BEFORE he installed into his system. Than stated his system is toast. THan he tells you he cant send the Rad cause it would render his system inoperable.......

okay....
conflicting statements here, time to give up the scam already! :)
Dont tell him to f*$& off, cause thats not polite nor very good even if he is a scammer.
 
MC FLMJIG said:
I sold a water cooling kit about 2 weeks ago. I received + feedback over 10 days ago as well. I tested the kit and packaged it carefully and made sure no moving parts. I kept tight communication with the person, answered question as fast as I could and gave advice. Everything went well.

Recently, however, I received an email that the rad was broken and that their VC and X-Fi was destroyed.

I sell a ton of stuff overseas and ever so often sell here in the states. I make sure what I sell is in the condition stated and that there are pics. I also know how important shipping is. Above all my rep is very important to me.

I don't feel like this is my fault yet I was willing to go halfsies on another rad. I even looked for a place and sent a link but I don't think the person wants this though. I'm debating on what to do. I will reiterate that I made sure everything worked before I sent and packaged well. There's a tad more but I'm sleepy... :)

Advice would be nice as I've never faced this kind of issue before.
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You sold item to him 14+ days ago.
He left positive feedback 10 days ago.
Item was not leaking when you sold it.
Buyer left positive feedback with the rad either untested, or tested "good" in his mind.

Buyer, in this case, I believe, was at fault, and should not have left positive feedback until such time that he found out that the radiator is, or is not, defective.

Secondly, you NEVER just go and install the WC kit in your rig, especially if used. You give at LEAST a 24 hour, if not 72 hour external leak test. Sounds like the buyer might not have done so. Since he didn't do so, or didn't know to do so, I think the fact that you are willing to "go halfsies" on a new rad (that you know was fine) is above and beyond the call of duty.

IMHO, buyer either broke, or didn't test the item before deploying it. Both are his fault if any damage occurred to extraneous system. Especially with all the evidence you've posted prior.
\
 
Just so you know, heat23 takes weeks to reply to support e-mails. Don't be surpised if it's a month before you hear back that they removed it
 
CyberDeus-RagDoll said:
You sold item to him 14+ days ago.
He left positive feedback 10 days ago.
Item was not leaking when you sold it.
Buyer left positive feedback with the rad either untested, or tested "good" in his mind.

Buyer, in this case, I believe, was at fault, and should not have left positive feedback until such time that he found out that the radiator is, or is not, defective.

Secondly, you NEVER just go and install the WC kit in your rig, especially if used. You give at LEAST a 24 hour, if not 72 hour external leak test. Sounds like the buyer might not have done so. Since he didn't do so, or didn't know to do so, I think the fact that you are willing to "go halfsies" on a new rad (that you know was fine) is above and beyond the call of duty.

IMHO, buyer either broke, or didn't test the item before deploying it. Both are his fault if any damage occurred to extraneous system. Especially with all the evidence you've posted prior.
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What about the whole "it worked! Now it doesn't! But I'm not sending it back to you because my computer wont work without it! But it's broken!" shinanigans?

The blackmail and evidence that points to oczman being a troll doesn't help the buyer's case, either.
 
hmm, I just read this thread. With it being two weeks since he was "convicted" of being a troll and actively trolling on here, why is he still not banned as a bad trader? I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, but I am curious.

In fact, he's on right now reading or sending a private message.
 
jpangelo said:
4:12 pm cst - oczman is online "Instant Messaging"

hth
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"Last Activity: Today 02:09 PM
Private Messaging @ 02:09 PM"

Yep.. either he's sending another nasty PM to the OP. Or trying to scam someone else?
 
SPARTAN VI said:
What about the whole "it worked! Now it doesn't! But I'm not sending it back to you because my computer wont work without it! But it's broken!" shinanigans?

The blackmail and evidence that points to oczman being a troll doesn't help the buyer's case, either.
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Guess you missed the last line of my statement. The part that you quoted.. You know.

ME said:
Especially with all the evidence you've posted prior.
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My point was, even without that evidence, he still would have been in the right.
 
CyberDeus-RagDoll said:
Guess you missed the last line of my statement. The part that you quoted.. You know.

My point was, even without that evidence, he still would have been in the right.
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Oh yes.

I was following the chronologic events you posted. The buyer didn't post positive feedback though, AFAIK. The seller, the op, did and got bit for it. Bottomline, there's no excuse for this guy's behavior. The OP offered to make good on the deal if what oczman said was true. That the radiator was cracked and destroyed his hardware. The guy is reluctant to send it back giving away that the radiator actually does work. When you lie so much, it's hard to keep your story straight! oczman resorts to blackmail, a blatant "buy me $$$$ radiator or else!" How diplomatic.
 
SPARTAN VI said:
The buyer didn't post positive feedback though, AFAIK. The seller, the op, did and got bit for it.
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MC FLMJIG said:
..... I received + feedback over 10 days ago as well.....
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From the first post. 2nd sentence. The SELLER (who is the O.P.) says he received positive feedback.


Some advice, spartan VI... try reading the entire posts :) You've messed up twice on this thread, and both things you were thinking of were clearly posted. My statement about "especially with all the prior proof" and MC FMJIG's post about "received positive feedback"

I applaud your attempts to help, but if you don't read everything, you miss something important.
 
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