Dell to start preloading ubuntu

G

Grathrax

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
333
http://news.com.com/Dell+picks+Ubuntu+for+Linux+PCs/2100-7344_3-6180419.html

Cnet and slashdot are reporting that Dell is going to start selling PCs with Ubuntu preloaded.

I think this could do well so long as they market the hell out of it. Naturally since Ubuntu will be preloaded, a lot of problems (ie driver support) will be solved right out of the box, and hopefully the average user won't have to ever touch the terminal.

Thoughts?
 
I just hope that average joe consumer understands what they are getting into w/ Linux. I like Linux myself, but find the semi-cryptic commands to operate and install to be a little much for many people.
 
Standpoint said:
I just hope that average joe consumer understands what they are getting into w/ Linux. I like Linux myself, but find the semi-cryptic commands to operate and install to be a little much for many people.
Click to expand...

I think that average Joe consumer does the following things:

  1. run a web browser
  2. write a letter
  3. print said letter
I don't think you'll need to touch the command line in linux to do either of these things.
 
The article doesn't make mention of any potential cost differences between a machine that will have Windows preloaded and one that will have Ubuntu installed. I'm curious to know whether or not a buyer will save $50 or something between two identically spec'ed machines. I also want to see if (without buying Canonical paid support) the price of the comp would be equivalent to a Dell n-series desktop. My initial feeling is no, as Dell would have to support users with their Ubuntu install, while they won't support any OS on an n-series, but I'd like to know.
 
The Linux box would likely not have any crapware or ad-sponsored junk to subsidize the cost of the machine. Anyone have hard numbers on how much that cruft knocks off of the price of a machine? It might go a long way towards making up for the cost of Windows.
 
IMO the average uses does:

1) porn surf. I mean surt the web ;) -- Firefox handles this.
2) email -- Thunderbird handles this.
3) 'office' activities; write letter, make speadsheet -- Openoffice handles this.
4) play various 'minor' games; solitare, minesweaper -- gnome games handles this.
5) digital camera activities; download pictures, resize, etc --- picasa handles this.

I feel this covers about 80% of the computer users I know of. All these can be done through the window manager. Granted it will take a little learning on the users part in how the apps work. That is most likely the downfall since most people are not willing to learn something new.

Keith
 
The question is, will they support it? IE if Grandma calls up because her new box is kernel panicing upon boot, will they have trained staff availible to deal with this?

If so, this is big.
 
Yes, this was Ubuntu's major drawback with OEMs: Support.

Now if Dell had onhand staff that could fully support
(K)Ubuntu then shit, let the fun begin!

On another note...I just got Beryl working and oh my god its the sexiest desktop I've ever had the chance to play with.

Cube ftw!
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
The question is, will they support it? IE if Grandma calls up because her new box is kernel panicing upon boot, will they have trained staff availible to deal with this?

If so, this is big.
Click to expand...

if the kernel is panicing on-boot then there are issues with either
1) hardware
2) something corrupted
Ubuntu (well any linux) & Dell do just work together

as to support they were talking abt utilising the existing ubuntu forums with minimal in-house support
 
I like the idea of Ubuntu coming on new Dells. if they want it to stick, they need to do at least one major thing, and thats pimp out a bunch of the Linux software the way Apple does with their Mac stuff. Running software is what the operating system is for. People who have Ubuntu pre-installed will need to be told what is available, or they will become disenchanted with it. Also, someone will need to make it easy to get itunes running in Linux. I don't really use it, but I know many people who are addicted to it, so it's what you might call a "killer app". A Linux version would be optimal, although that would mean Apple would have to be more willing to contribute back to opensource than they currently seem to be.
 
Standpoint said:
I just hope that average joe consumer understands what they are getting into w/ Linux. I like Linux myself, but find the semi-cryptic commands to operate and install to be a little much for many people.
Click to expand...
haha, I'd agree with you here, except than anything non-gui driven is cryptic to the persons you're talking about.
 
drizzt81 said:
I think that average Joe consumer does the following things:

  1. run a web browser
  2. write a letter
  3. print said letter
I don't think you'll need to touch the command line in linux to do either of these things.
Click to expand...

You might be suprised what the average joe does with a computer these days. Sure, for these tasks, Linux is fine. But when you start getting into this like digtal entertainment, things start getting rough quickly.

I just installed Ubuntu on an Athlon 64 3400+ Socket 754 system. That was a piece of cake. It got the sound and video right out of the box. It even SAW my cheapo Brother MFC-420 network printer, though it didn't get the drivers right.

I've been trying to get DVD playback and MythTV up and running. Not fun and not working yet. I actually got heavily into Red Hat Linux seven years ago and was almost competent, but being a Microsoft platform developer, I haven't touched Linux since then.

The thing is if I wanted to I could all that I wanted up and running I'm sure. But I've already got my Vista and XP boxes recording TV in Hi-Def and dealing with all of my daily tasks from work to play.

What does Linux offer the average, heck even the above average computer user? More security, sure, but Windows isn't as bad as the press makes it out to be on that front if you do simple things, like not install all the software that pop us tell you too, not open attachements from unknown scources, scan software (no need for an active virus scanner really) and run a spyware app. Sure its cheaper, but is it really? Sure Linux has thousands of apps, but you lose the ability to run lots of stuff. Wine is not a 100% solution and not without its own issues.

A good deal of the good FOSS apps like OpenOffice and GIMP to name a couple run on Windows. If you got Windows XP for say $200 when it came out, that copy lasted for five years lets say now that Vista is about, so that's $40 per year. That's not a lot in terms of running a computer these days. People with broadband connections are paying that a month. No to mention other software, like games.

Now, in the business world, I could see the benefit of saving the cost of Windos licenses for thousands of machines. But even there, you've got to factor in all the costs of migration, training, lot productivity, interoperability issues. Sure it can be worked out, but at the end of the day do you really know what you've saved. Probably not.

In the consumer realm, Linix is mostly a solution in search of a problem. The biggest benefit is added security, not cost for most people with say a desktop and a laptop, which came with Windows anyway.

The more I look at desktop Linux, for a general purpose computer, the more muddled it becomes. Works pretty well for a lot of things. Great at what it is at its core, hackers paradise. Sucks at other things. Get the average user to try to play a DVD with an out of the box Ubuntu install for instance.

Really, what might actually bring Linux into the desktop world are web apps. Powerful web apps have always held the promise of making the base OS irrelavant. But then the desktop get bigger and more powerful, it all kinds on new gadgets and widgets and the web apps just tend to be rather bland. But maybe they will become all that, then free Linux would obviosuly be the way to go.

My conclusion is that unless you want or need Linux, don't bother. It just doesn't offer much overall. Don't get me wrong, its a great OS, just what would a person really need it for. Maybe for the kids to keep them from installing viruses or playing games. Not trying to be a smart ass, but if I had kids and they had computers, I would conisder installing Linux on their machines to keep them out of trouble.
 
heatlesssun said:
You might be suprised what the average joe does with a computer these days. Sure, for these tasks, Linux is fine. But when you start getting into this like digtal entertainment, things start getting rough quickly.

I just installed Ubuntu on an Athlon 64 3400+ Socket 754 system. That was a piece of cake. It got the sound and video right out of the box. It even SAW my cheapo Brother MFC-420 network printer, though it didn't get the drivers right.

I've been trying to get DVD playback and MythTV up and running. Not fun and not working yet. I actually got heavily into Red Hat Linux seven years ago and was almost competent, but being a Microsoft platform developer, I haven't touched Linux since then.

The thing is if I wanted to I could all that I wanted up and running I'm sure. But I've already got my Vista and XP boxes recording TV in Hi-Def and dealing with all of my daily tasks from work to play.

What does Linux offer the average, heck even the above average computer user? More security, sure, but Windows isn't as bad as the press makes it out to be on that front if you do simple things, like not install all the software that pop us tell you too, not open attachements from unknown scources, scan software (no need for an active virus scanner really) and run a spyware app. Sure its cheaper, but is it really? Sure Linux has thousands of apps, but you lose the ability to run lots of stuff. Wine is not a 100% solution and not without its own issues.

A good deal of the good FOSS apps like OpenOffice and GIMP to name a couple run on Windows. If you got Windows XP for say $200 when it came out, that copy lasted for five years lets say now that Vista is about, so that's $40 per year. That's not a lot in terms of running a computer these days. People with broadband connections are paying that a month. No to mention other software, like games.

Now, in the business world, I could see the benefit of saving the cost of Windos licenses for thousands of machines. But even there, you've got to factor in all the costs of migration, training, lot productivity, interoperability issues. Sure it can be worked out, but at the end of the day do you really know what you've saved. Probably not.

In the consumer realm, Linix is mostly a solution in search of a problem. The biggest benefit is added security, not cost for most people with say a desktop and a laptop, which came with Windows anyway.

The more I look at desktop Linux, for a general purpose computer, the more muddled it becomes. Works pretty well for a lot of things. Great at what it is at its core, hackers paradise. Sucks at other things. Get the average user to try to play a DVD with an out of the box Ubuntu install for instance.

Really, what might actually bring Linux into the desktop world are web apps. Powerful web apps have always held the promise of making the base OS irrelavant. But then the desktop get bigger and more powerful, it all kinds on new gadgets and widgets and the web apps just tend to be rather bland. But maybe they will become all that, then free Linux would obviosuly be the way to go.

My conclusion is that unless you want or need Linux, don't bother. It just doesn't offer much overall. Don't get me wrong, its a great OS, just what would a person really need it for. Maybe for the kids to keep them from installing viruses or playing games. Not trying to be a smart ass, but if I had kids and they had computers, I would conisder installing Linux on their machines to keep them out of trouble.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on all points and definately makes me think about things.

Your forgetting one thing though...

Ubuntu Beryl > Vista :D

But yeah, Linux does have its share of problems...like the 8800's for example :(
 
Beryl is a program. Vista is an OS.

If you're comparing Beryl to Aero, that's entirely a matter of personal preference.
 
heatlesssun said:
Get the average user to try to play a DVD with an out of the box Ubuntu install for instance.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that if you buy a Dell with pre-installed Ubuntu it would not be a clean OS-installation. I have yet to see a newly bought computer that had a clean installation of Windows on it. Most likely they will have DVD playback set up properly before they ship the computer, with all the applications needed installed and all the needed settings already implemented.

For what it has to offer beyond a computer with Windows pre-installed, I suppose one thing would be the ease of installing new games and applications from the "add/remove" menu. I do not see users like my parents going to Google to search for some application, download an installer and then running it. And I don't see them purchasing a program like Photoshop just to be able to resize a photograph either.

Windows itself has a lot of advantages in terms of application/game and hardware support but I think a computer with Windows pre-installed leaves much to be desired. I speak from the experience of setting up two laptops with XP pre-installed. These were on paper pretty fast computers, but with all the crippleware, shareware and just plain crap that was installed and which ran at each start-up one would not believe the specs from using the computer. The absolutely biggest villain here would have to be the anti-virus and in particular Norton Anti-virus.

I think it could enjoy a reasonable amount of success if they play their cards right. We'll just have to see.
 
First, I think it's important to note this is not actually news. Maybe the fact that it's Ubuntu this time, but Dell and HP have offered Linux as an option for a while now. I know when I worked at HP, we offered the option of not having an OS installed for $50 less. I know I've seen people posting here that says Dell did that as well. You had to call in and specifically request it.

As for the topic at hand, Dell better be prepared to support the OS as well. One of the primary reasons people buy an OEM direct is for the support. If they are equipped to handle such questions as "I just bought your new PC, but my son's games won't install", then it could be a good thing. I'd easily consider getting a new tower, if I had Ubuntu support to go with it. I wouldn't buy a Dell tower though, if they still use proprietary parts, but that's for a separate thread.
 
djnes said:
First, I think it's important to note this is not actually news. Maybe the fact that it's Ubuntu this time, but Dell and HP have offered Linux as an option for a while now. I know when I worked at HP, we offered the option of not having an OS installed for $50 less. I know I've seen people posting here that says Dell did that as well. You had to call in and specifically request it.

As for the topic at hand, Dell better be prepared to support the OS as well. One of the primary reasons people buy an OEM direct is for the support. If they are equipped to handle such questions as "I just bought your new PC, but my son's games won't install", then it could be a good thing. I'd easily consider getting a new tower, if I had Ubuntu support to go with it. I wouldn't buy a Dell tower though, if they still use proprietary parts, but that's for a separate thread.
Click to expand...

They sure do, I mentioned that in my tiny post, and I have two such machines I use at work. Dell n-Series don't come with Windows installed (but come with FreeDOS). You can also get an n-Series with Red Hat Enterprise Linux installed on it.
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1

Now the other thing - I am certain they would have to provide support for Ubuntu. Otherwise...it's just an n-Series desktop (which doesn't receive OS support since they expect the user to install a new OS on the system). What form this support takes though, I don't know. eeyrjmr mentions something involving a mix with the Ubuntu Forums, but does that mean they tell people to go to the Ubuntu forums? What if their problem was "My network's not working?" :p
 
I think this will make Linux more of a target for problems. Hopefully I am wrong which is usually the case.
 
Chances are, they're offering Ubuntu as a way to make cheaper systems. Ubuntu has smaller system requirements than Vista, so Dell will be able to advertise cheaper entry level systems. At the same time, they will encourage Vista to be used, so that customers will customize systems to be big enough to be expensive.

Dell already has a setup that lets them offer their cheap systems disproportionately cheap in comparison to modestly upgraded expensive systems. with Ubuntu they will be able to undercut manufacturers who only offer Windows. Ubuntu's smaller system requirements will provide that ability.

It suddenly has me questioning Dell's resolve to support Ubuntu. They may be going into this with no real financial commitment, expecting to come away with profits regardless of results. There are certain things that have to be done "just right" for people to have a happy experience with Ubuntu, but if they are just throwing it on there and saying "here you go, bye", then people may become disenchanted with it.
 
The reason has been clearly identified. It was the customers # 1 request. If customers demand this, then obviously they need to market accordingly. I don't think this has anything to do with Dell wanting to push lower end systems due to low end system requirements.

Their # 1 request from customers was OO and Open Source OS.
 
Carloswill said:
The reason has been clearly identified. It was the customers # 1 request. If customers demand this, then obviously they need to market accordingly. I don't think this has anything to do with Dell wanting to push lower end systems due to low end system requirements.

Their # 1 request from customers was OO and Open Source OS.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm being cynical, but they aren't a charity, they want to make money. If there wasn't a way to make Ubuntu profitable, they wouldn't be doing it, especially with Microsoft looming above. I would hope it's merely to ingratiate themselves to their customers, but I find that hard to believe.

Time should reveal what their motivations may be. If in a few months we see links to special offers that are trimmed down systems with Ubuntu pre-selected...
 
Langford said:
Maybe I'm being cynical, but they aren't a charity, they want to make money. If there wasn't a way to make Ubuntu profitable, they wouldn't be doing it, especially with Microsoft looming above. I would hope it's merely to ingratiate themselves to their customers, but I find that hard to believe.

Time should reveal what their motivations may be. If in a few months we see links to special offers that are trimmed down systems with Ubuntu pre-selected...
Click to expand...

Nobody is expecting nor asking Dell to be a charity. They are a business that asked their customers what they wanted and the number 1 answer was linux. To provide Linux at that point isn't rocket science, it's common sence. Moreover, if you ignore your clients wishes, somone else will step up and take them as clients.

Dell sells computers. Operating systems enhance the sale of computers. Dell could care less what OS is used because they make their money on the hardware either way. The only income wildcard here is the crippleware package.... will it be on the Linux systems?
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
The question is, will they support it? IE if Grandma calls up because her new box is kernel panicing upon boot, will they have trained staff availible to deal with this?

If so, this is big.
Click to expand...

I don't think this has been mentioned in the thread yet, but the article said that users will have a chance to purchase support from Canonical. I didn't see anything concrete on support directly from Dell. It will be interesting to see if outsourced support from Canonical can really be useful.

Damn, I really wasn't looking to buy a Dell...but this makes me want to reconsider...
 
drizzt81 said:
I think that average Joe consumer does the following things:

  1. run a web browser
  2. write a letter
  3. print said letter
I don't think you'll need to touch the command line in linux to do either of these things.
Click to expand...

Until an update gets pushed down the pipeline that breaks the X server, like the one released shortly after Edgy.

That's going to create a support nightmare.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top