Clean install with Vista Upgrade - The foolproof approach

Here goes for “take 2” of this guide. Kyle’s efforts at correcting database problems recently ‘nuked’ about ten days of posts, and a couple of damned fine install guides along with them. We’d had quite a few questions cropping up regarding installing with a Vista Upgrade package, and both forum regular bbz_ghost and myself were motivated to write up some guides.


Which method should I use?

Not surprisingly, when you enter your Vista Upgrade product key code into the Vista installer you don’t get to perform a ‘Clean install’. That’s not because the function is ‘missing’ from the Upgrade disk. The disk itself is identical to every other Vista disk. It’s just that the installer recognises your product key as an upgrade one, and then restricts what functions are offered to you. But the installer will also allow you to ‘skip’ entering your product code, and then let you put a time-limited ‘trial’ install in place. It is this capability that the Upgrade version clean install workarounds are based on.

Some time back now I introduced the ‘Single install clean install’ technique to this forum. This workaround has you installing a ‘Trial’ install of Vista, and then issuing commands to ‘assign’ your product key to the installation and activate the installation. It is this technique which bbz_ghosts excellent guide was based upon. If you care to try this technique, you would do well to follow the advice bbz_ghost was able to determine by having a closer look at the technique. Disabling UAC isn’t actually necessary. All you need do is right click the ‘Command prompt’ entry on the Programs menu and choose to “Run as administrator”. Then issue the commands mentioned in my article.

That technique, however, is neither the one I use myself or the one I recommend others to use. Sure, it takes less time to complete, but I’ve had quite a few people report to me that they haven’t been successful in following and using it. Activation has failed for them!

I use and recommend the ‘dual install’ workaround instead. This technique has you installing the ‘Trial’ install of Vista as before, and then running a second install from within Vista, this time using your product key when you do the install. The trial install of Vista is seen by the installer as an ‘Upgrade path’, and will let you proceed to perform a ‘Custom clean install’. This technique WORKS EVERY TIME. It is a foolproof method, and thus the one I recommend people to use.


Isn’t it more time consuming, and is that really a ‘Clean’ install?

It’s easy enough to pooh-pooh the dual-install method on the basis that it ‘takes longer’. But it really doesn’t take up any more than a few minutes of your time! Forget the old assumptions that applied to earlier Windows versions. Vista is DIFFERENT!

The install routine is much more like an ‘unattended’ install than ever before, for starters. There’s a small amount of user input required right at the start of the install. There’s a little bit of user interaction required right at the end of the install. In between, you can wander off and do whatever you like. You won’t come back to the machine only to find that the install has ‘stalled’ half-way through waiting for user input! It’s a big improvement.

You can also ditch the old assumption that a ‘Clean install’ necessarily has to be a format/fresh install process. Vista’s ‘Custom’ install provides absolute stability when run to a partition where a Windows installation already exists. It bundles all the stuff there into a windows.old folder, which can be removed later with ‘Disk Cleanup’ if you wish.


The legal Concerns

I don’t want to tie the thread up with endless ridiculous arguments. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO USE A WORKAROUND TECHNIQUE TO CLEAN INSTALL YOUR SYSTEM!

To remain legal when deploying a Windows Upgrade package, you MUST be replacing an existing qualifying license. Your license is a contract or agreement. It is not the actual disk, it is not the actual installation. Your license is represented by your legitimate product key code, your COA sticker, and your use of the legitimate key code to legitimate and activate your Windows installation.

In large part, legality depends upon the ‘honour system’:

• You must own a legitimate qualifying Windows license in order to be eligible to use an Upgrade product.
• You must discontinue the use of that pre-existing license after you deploy the Vista Upgrade license.

That’s it, in a nutshell. It is one thing to use a ‘workaround’ as a method for putting a clean install on the primary drive/partition in your system, rather than running an actual upgrade over an earlier installation. That’s fair enough. So is installing Vista as a dual-boot, side by side with your existing qualifying installation to enable you to access and use both whilst you are making the transition from one OS platform to the next. But using these techniques as a ‘cheap’ way of getting Vista, or using them as a means to continue using your qualifying license, on an ongoing basis or on a different machine, is another matter entirely. That’s illegal! Don’t kid yourself that you can have clear conscience if you do that!

Anyways, enough rant. On with the technique itself! There are countless guides already available, of course, but none cover the details about avoiding the various traps and pitfalls you might encounter. This’n is the best you’ll ever read!

Performing a Clean Install – the initial install

Before you begin sit back and have a quick think about just what you are trying to achieve. It’ll impact on some of the choices you need to make. Throughout this guide you will be choosing ‘Custom Install’ as the installation type, when prompted. But you will also get opportunity to make decisions about partitions on your drive(s).

If you already have a Windows installation on your primary boot partition/drive, and want to replace that with a clean, new Vista install, make sure you’ve backed up any necessary files there before you begin. You’ll get the opportunity to delete that partition and then create a new one in the same drive space. That will effectively ‘wipe’ it for a clean install.
If you want to install Vista cleanly as a dual-boot configuration, ensure that you have a partition available to install it to, or have enough ‘unallocated space’ on your drive(s) to create a suitable partition in.

I’ll remind you about that a bit later, at the relevant point, so let’s get on with it.


Begin by disconnecting that PC from the internet! Unplug the Lan cable, turn off the modem/router, or whatever else it is you need to do to have the thing “not connected”. This first install will complete MUCH more quickly if there’s no internet connection available. Then pop the Vista DVD in the drive and reboot, making sure that BIOS setup is configured to boot from CD-ROM. When you arrive at the prompt, choose ‘Install now”.



When prompted for your product key, leave the entry box blank. Remove the tick beside “Automatically activate Windows when I’m online”, and then click on ‘Next’.
You’ll be presented with a couple of prompts about not having entered your product key. They’re a bit tricky, so read them carefully and be sure to choose the option which indicates that you actually don’t WANT to enter that key code yet! When you’re past those prompts you’ll be asked to select which version of Vista you want to install. Be sure to select the version which matches the product you’ve actually purchased. (These procedures won’t work if you choose the wrong version.)

Next you will be asked what type in installation you wish to perform. The ‘Upgrade install’ option should not be selectable at this point, but remember that you need to choose ‘Custom Install anyway! After you do so there’ll be a smallish delay, and then you’ll arrive at the drive/partition selection screen.



If you’re unfortunate enough to own one of those horrible older systems which won’t actually let the Windows installer ‘find’ a SATA drive until the SATA/RAID drivers are installed, you can load those drivers at this screen, using the button provided for the purpose. You don’t need to have the drivers on a floppy disk like you did with XP. They can be on a CD or even on a USB thumb drive if you like.

The ‘Drive Options (Advanced)’ button gives you access to a limited range of partition tools. Highlight the drive or partition you wish to make changes to. ‘Delete’ removes that partition. ‘New’ creates a new partition in unallocated space. Time to recall that stuff we talked about earlier. Make the changes you need to make in accordance with where and how you want Vista to be installed. When you’re done, select the relevant partition and click ‘Next’.

The actuall Windows installation will commence, and it’ll be time to wander of to make a brew, or whatever else it is you want to do. The install will take about fifteen to twenty minutes to complete. You won’t see another prompt until it’s nearly time to arrive at the Vista desktop.


Finishing off the initial install.

When you finally wander back to the machine you should see a screen prompting you to enter a user account name. The machine will have rebooted a time or two while you were away, and in between presented a message that it was about to “Start Windows for the first time” when it wasn’t really quite ready to do that. You’d have seen all that if you’d sat there watching, but it would’ve seemed to take a lot longer than it did when you wandered away for a brew and a chinwag.

It doesn’t matter what you enter in response to the user account prompt, or to the prompt about computer name in the following screen. Hell, this is only a preparatory install. The subsequent screen, though, is one prompting you about security settings:



Choose the “Ask me later” option. We’re not internet connected yet, remember! You’ll then have a short wait whilst the system does a ‘performance check’, and then you’ll arrive at the Vista desktop. Congratulations! Stage one completed!

Running the second Install.

Now to put the ‘real’ install in place. Reconnect that network cable, turn that modem/router on or whatever else it is you need to do to have that active internet connection available again. Then eject/reinsert that Vista DVD , allow it to autoplay and choose “Install now” when prompted.


By now you’ll have realised that the installation only really took up a few minutes of your time at the keyboard, so the second run through will be a breeze. It’s same as before, with the following changes:

• You’ll be asked if you want to download updates for the installation. Might as well do so, because it’ll save time installing updates afterwards.
• When prompted for your product key, be sure to enter it. Again, you can deselect that ‘Automatically activate…” option.
• You won’t need to go through the rigmarole of choosing which Vista version to install. Your product key will automatically select the correct one.
• When prompted, choose to perform a ‘Custom install’ again. (Some people report success from using the ‘Upgrade’ option, but I’d advise you not to. Upgrading the trial install can lead to severe problems.)
• When you are prompted about partitions, simply choose the appropriate one and click on ‘Next’. You’ve already done the configuring first time through, so it doesn’t need to be done again.
• Be sure to enter the User account name and System name of your choice. This run through is ‘for real’.
• When prompted about security settings select the option of your preference. ‘Recommended’ configures Vista to automatically download and install updates.

That’s it! Job done. You now have 30 days in which to install any necessary device drivers, install your software and configure your system before Windows ‘needs’ to be activated. You can be confident that the installation will activate online quite successfully, so take your time setting the system up before doing so. If you activate right now, then botch the install with mis-configurations and incompatible software, a reinstall so soon would almost certainly see you needing to telephone activate next time. Get your system working the way you want it to first!

Oh yeah! By the way! That ‘trial’ install has been put in a folder called windows.old, and you can remove it whenever you wish simply by running Disk Cleanup. Choose ‘Files from all users’, and enable the ‘Previous Windows installations’ checkbox. Disk Cleanup will then remove the folder and its contents for you, to reclaim that drive space.


A final tip


Okay. So some people are too impatient!
Doesn’t matter if it’s a workaround ‘clean install’ or any other Vista install, some people are just in too much of a hurry to get it activated. Then they stuff about, screw up the install, have to wipe and start over again, try to re-activate and the activation fails! They get confronted with this:



DON’T PANIC!

You don’t really have to go purchase a new product key. That message is only saying that your key is in use because it’s in use ON YOUR MACHINE! The message is only indicating that online activation has failed. Select the ‘Automatic telephone activation’ option, and follow instructions.

That’ll fail too (DUH!) and you’ll be connected to a call center person. Explain that you’ve blown out the activation with hardware/settings/whatever changes, and that Windows is only installed on the one machine. You’ll be provided with an activation code and instructed how to enter it and get your installation activated again.

so i think im gonna get 64bit vista premium upgrade, now do I have to make a partition for it before installing vista? or will vista allow me to make a partition? Right now i have like 10gb linux partition which tonight or tomorrow im gonna find out how to get rid of. i have a 160gb hdd, and thinking of 100gb xp, 60 vista, or 80/80 not sure yet. Thanks

Vista will allow you to make the partition. I would use something like GParted to remove the Linux partition, and clear the drive completely. Then install XP using either the 80 GB or 100 GB partition. Leave the rest of the drive blank, and then proceed.

Good question.

If Windows XP is already on the rig and all the hard drive space is already committed to an XP partition, there are two approaches you could take.


The first (and the one I would recommend) would be to simply add another hard drive to the system and install Vista on that. More storage space is always better, and if the rig is a desktop rig then this is the ONLY option I would recommend. Mucking about changing partitions on a desktop rig just to avoid the small cost of another hard drive is silly.



If the rig is a laptop, though, you'll need to resize the XP partition to make some room for a Vista partition. This needs to be done first, and needs a special software tool for the task.

I prefer to use a commercial partition management tool for the job. Some people here would recommend the use of a good freeware tool such as GParted. Whichever partition management tool is used, it needs to be able to be run from a bootable CD, in order to reduce the size of the XP partition in the safest possible manner.

Plenty of partition management tools claim the ability to reduce the size of the system partition whilst Windows is up and running, but that's always a risky approach, IMO.

DeaconFrost said:

Vista will allow you to make the partition.

Click to expand...

The Vista install routine will only allow you to create the partition if there is available unallocated space on the drive. It won't let the XP partition be 'shrunk' to free up space. There is no ned at all to 'wipe' the XP install, and if it is a working and relied upon installation then doing so would be quite ridiculous!

I'm wondering If I popped in my XP disc, if that will let me create the partition and take space from the current xp partition?

Catweazle said:

The Vista install routine will only allow you to create the partition if there is available unallocated space on the drive. It won't let the XP partition be 'shrunk' to free up space. There is no ned at all to 'wipe' the XP install, and if it is a working and relied upon installation then doing so would be quite ridiculous!

Click to expand...

Based on his wording, it sounds like XP wasn't installed as of yet, since the XP partition sized is "planned". The easiest way to get rid of the Linux partition that is present, is to use something like GParted. Since XP's going on first, XP's drive partitioner doesn't handle Linux partitions, as far as I remember, so something else would be needed to wipe the drive. That's why my other instructions kick in, to install XP and leave the space for Vista untouched.

The sig indicates the rig is already running XP


snipes23, your XP CD will NOT enable you to do that. As mentioned, you need a 3rd party tool for the job, and the safest way to proceed is to use one which can be put on a bootable CD, boot from it, and do the XP system partition reduction without booting into Windows.

I am getting ready to set-up a new rig this weekend.
I am going to follow this procedure implicitly- BUT
I am wondering if there is a way to download all the current hotfixes, drivers, etc in order to speed the install up.

If this is possible; where can I find the specified files? When I look at the MS support site I get 200+ pages of results for "downloads only".

System specs in case of interest or need:

Intel Q6600 2.4 GHz (Hoping to OC to 3.0 GHz)
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM ATX12V / EPS12V 700W Power Supply
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
EVGA 8800GT SSC 512MB
(2) 74GB WD Raptor drives - from my previous system will be reformatted for a clean install
(1) 400GB WD Caviar (Storage drive)

(1) 250GB WD MyBook External Hard drive for Bios updates/drivers/etc

A clean install of Vista is pretty fast, especially on that hardware. Here's how I do my Windows Installs:

1. Start with a properly functioning system, nothing overclocked at this point.

1. Do a clean install, nothing special. I alway format the drive first

2. Run Windows Update until no more updates are available. Kinda silly you have to run it multiple times.

3. Install latest video/audio/chipset drivers.

4. Install my other MS products like Office and Visual Studio

5. Once again run Windows Update until no more updates are available.

6. Do everything else.

I consider this a simple and safe way to install Windows, both XP and Vista and have never had problems. I've got four year XP installs that are working fine. No slow downs or any other such nonsense.

Well, I think I screwed up. I haven't done much OS installing, or reformating, and I must have read the guide at least five times before I started. I got almost to the end of the initial install when the computer restarted to finish. It did and then I was prompted to hit any key to boot from CD Rom. Like an idiot I did and the install started over. then to top it off I put in the product key in. The install finished and seems to be fine, but now I'm wondering if I got a complete version of Vista. Am I stuck now, or can I delete the partition and try the install again? At least I haven't activated it yet. I'm such a noob sometimes. OOps forgot to add it is Vista Ultimate 64 updrade version.

Anyone please?

To address that legal part how would this apply to setting up a dual boot? Using your old OS on the same system with your upgrade as the second OS (already tested to work).

Sorry for the lateness in responding, but I've had that configuration working well without any issues at all.

very nice guide! I am on the fence about getting home premium 64 OEM or the upgrade.. I hear the OEM versions can be fussy about upgrades and re-installs.. I guess I would have to deal with the activation center more often, but that's not the end of the world.. this will be a dual boot with XP on one disk and vista on another.. anyways.. thanks for the guide. that's going to come in handy when I install. cheers!

Hey, I just installed Vista Ultimate x64 on a spare drive so i wouldn't mess up my Raptor if I didn't like Vista. When I right click > properties to see my CPU information, it lists the overall score and then the CPU only shows 2.00 (default for my CPU) when I have it clocked to 3.2. Is this normal?

You probably should have started a new thread for that question, as it's unrelated, but here goes. Use something like CPU-z to test your processor speed, to be more accurate.

does the ultimate upgrade package have the 64bit version in it? or is it like home premium upgrade which only has the 32bit ver, with instructions on how to send off for the 64bit ver??

DeaconFrost said:

You probably should have started a new thread for that question, as it's unrelated, but here goes. Use something like CPU-z to test your processor speed, to be more accurate.

Click to expand...

I did use CPU_Z, it states the correct OC, I'm just afraid Vita isn't reading it right.

Can I install Vista HP upgrade on a second drive with my XP still connected without Vista deactivating my XP key?

I don't want to have it deactivate in case I decide Vista sux and I want to stay with XP.

Im sure MS will Fix the Upgrade/Clean Install Workaround when the Retail version of SP1 is Releases on March 19th.

Maybe, but that would only be on DVD's created after that time with Sp1 in them, not DVD's that are out there now

finny76 said:

Im sure MS will Fix the Upgrade/Clean Install Workaround when the Retail version of SP1 is Releases on March 19th.

Click to expand...

That's why I am buying and installing now.

Skipping the legal and moral questions, will it work? MS has dicked me around enough in the last 15 years that I feel like I can run a upgrade copy of Vista along side my legal copy of XP and sleep well at night.

Thanks for the clean install workaround. Also of note, i own Vista Ultimate 32/64 bit upgrade, and when i install 32bit the workaround is needed, but if i install 64bit, it installs to a clean drive without a hitch. 64bit version does not check for prior OS.

Cheers!

How does this process work with SP1 Upgrade discs now? I want to be using 64 bit if that matters.

or...

Can I put XP Pro on the PC for like 2 minutes, then run a Vista SP1 64 bit disc, and do a clean install using the update key from a retail Vist Premium SP1 upgrade license key?

I would be surprised if the same method didn't work with the SP1 discs as well.

I'd also like to hear if this is possible with SP1 discs.

A single install, without using the key, then performing the necessary Administrative Command Prompt commands (three of them) are still working just fine with integrated SP1 discs so far in my experience. I've done this about 55 times in the past few weeks, not once has it failed, and it's still far faster than requiring two complete installs - I was never one to preach the dual install method (never had reason to as the single install has never failed for me in over 1,700 attempts) so that's what I continue to recommend.

So it seems that MS did not fix the Clean Install (From Upgrade) issue on the VISTA SP1 Bundled discs!?

bump

subd

Very nice guide on Installing the Vista upgrade clean install. I have a 250 GB IDE HD with XP Pro SP2 installed. I wanted Vista Ultimate. So I purchased the Vista Ultimate Upgrade at Sam's for $221 inc tax. I also intsalled a new WD Sata 320 GB hard disk. Since I didn't want to dual boot in case I wanted to remove XP later, I disconnected the hard disk with XP installed.Then I booted up on the Vista upgrade DVD and followed your guide. Everything went absolutly smooth. Vista Ultimate is now installed, patched, and working great. Have loaded Antivir antivirus and several other programs with no problems. I even installed all the latest drivers for my MB and video card. I am continuing to load programs. Tomorrow I will reconnect the other hard disk with XP. My bios has a quick boot option so I can choose whick hard disk to boot. Just hit ESC key when booting to get menu choice. (If anyone wants to know, the Upgrade version of Vista Ultimate has the 32 bit and 64 bit DVD's). Thanks for the guide. The Vista Ultimat Upgrade version I purchased was with SP1. So the workaround still works.

I used the Quick boot menu (ESC on bootup) on my XFX 790i today and it allowed me to choose which hard disk to boot from. Worked great. This is not exactly dual booting, but it works great. I discovered a bonus. No matter which hard disk or operating system I boot into, I can still access and move files between the 2 disks. BTW, I have 3 partitions on each disk and can see and access all 6 partitions. But I don't have to deal with the boot loader. So should I want to remove the XP system, I can just remove the disk from the computer without affecting the Vista disk.

Would this method work with a Windows 7 upgrade disc?

Thread necromancy!!!

Microsoft made alterations to how the upgrade discs are used to make the installation happen, from what I understand this method does not function any longer.

It might, as I've never done an upgrade installation in the past 12 years - last time was Windows 98SE when it came out. But from my understanding, the clean install using the upgrade media as this thread was meant to instruct is no longer viable.