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sabregen
Fully [H]
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- Jun 6, 2005
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After patiently waiting for 2 days now (since I just got my second GTS 320SC on Monday...today being Wednesday), I have finally installed and tested the ThermalTake TMG ND5 8800GTS/GTX cooler. This isn't setting out to be a review in the complete sense that [H] offers to us. I'd had these for 2.5 hours at this point. Here's the dirt, complete with pictures.
I bought an additional eVGA 8800GTS 320MB SC edition here on the forums. The catch was that the card was currently (at the time of purchase) being watercooled. The seller informed me ahead of time that the stock cooler was non-operational, so I set out to find new coolers for my existing card and the new one that was on the way. I had looked at the Thermalright coolers, but the idea of giving up more than two slots just wasn't sitting well with me, despite the performance that Thermalright is reknowned for. As I was searching the forums, I found someone that linked to Sharka Corporation, and the new-ish TMG ND5 cooler (in stock). After looking at the price, while it wasn't bad, I started looking around for other US resellers that had other 8800GTS/GTX cooling solutions...there wasn't any. I then began looking for other resellers of the TMG ND5...there wasn't any. I figured that it was "a sign" and that I should go ahead and pull the trigger on these. For those that have been looking, and want to go check out ThermalTake's marketing product page, and the link to Sharka Corporation, here you go:
Sharka Corporations TMG ND5 link
ThermalTake's product page
Now to start on the real dirt. The stock 8800 cooler that we all know and love has the fan at the rear of the card (near the power connections). The TMG ND5 is the opposite orientation. The 80mm fan on the cooler is near the DVI ports. The cooler blows the air out towards what will be the front of your case. This has caused an interesting dilemma for me. I was planning on a case re-wire job tomorrow, as I have also recently moved up to a eVGA 680i A1...and the previous wire job was for a P5B Deluxe/AP-Wifi Edition. Stuff just isn't in the same place between the two boards. At any rate, I have 3x120mm intake fans just inches from the exhaust of the TMG ND5...which if you recall what I just said, is pushing it's hot air at my intake fans. I will have to choose my fan layout carefully during the rewire. I know that was a bit long-winded, but I think it's worth mentioning, as I know many of you (except you WC'ers, maybe), are going to be in the same boat I am.
The coolers are taller than your stock cooler. Many of us that change video card cooling solutions from stock to something else, are aware of this being pretty normal. The TMG ND5 runs about 2.0" inches above the top of the card. Make sure that your case can support the additional width (when positioned horizontally in a tower case) that this cooler protrudes. Get the measuring tape it you have to. You'll see examples of this in the pictures I post below.
The TMG ND5 does NOT interfere with SLi bridge connections. If it did, I would call ThermalTake's R&D department and give them what for. Aside from the additional height in the cooler, there's nothing about this cooler that will prevent normal connections for SLi users, like myself.
Now that you have all of my "issues" with the cooler, here's some step by step install stuff, and some notes on that whole process.
The victims are two eVGA 8800GTS 320MB SC editions (no GTS 320MB flames, please...that's not why I am doing this):
The replacement coolers for the stock ones arrived in perfect shape, on time from Sharka Corp. They were more than helpful to me, throughout the order process. The items were shipped within 24 hours from ordering, and they provided tracking information upon shipment. This is what we have all come to expect from places like ZZF, ClubIT, and Newegg. It's nice to see a company (whom I have never dealt with, or even heard of before this!) follow suit, and let you know what's going on. I even e-mailed the customer service contact representative while I was at work (because I can't access my personal e-mail there...it's an Air Force Base, and they block it) to get my tracking information that I had forgotten to write down...they responded within an hour with the tracking number so that I could quell my anxiousness. That's above and beyond, as far as I am concerned!
This comprises the retail packaging that Thermaltake gives you. The cooler, the mounting hardware, a TMG ND5 stiocker for your case badge library, instructions, thermal pads, mosfet sinks,and product registration information card, for your records. As we have all come to expect, pretty standard fare here.
The first victim for the cooler install. At this point, I have installed the RAM thermal interface pads. Note that they are probably close to 1/8" thick. Using AS5 simply does not work for the RAM, so don't even try. The cooler (stock and the ND5) sit mainly on the GPU core (which is massive), and will not make contact with the RAM chips. If you choose not to use these pads, and elect to find your own, keep this in mind.
These are the mosfet aluminum coolers. I could have removed the provided adhesive and replaced it with AS Ceramique (and may, in the future), but I was far to excited to get all this installed (remember, I had two cards to do). They're small, and there's four of them. Not much else to do but peel off the backing and stick them on...hopefully you aren't drinking and they are on straight and covering all 3 chips intended to be covered.
Picture of what 3 out of 4 installed mosfet aluminum sinks looks like:
Now, someone may correct me on what exactly this chip is on the 8800 cards. I think it could be the HDCP compositing chip...I don't know for sure. Regardless, the thermal pad for this one matches the thickness for the RAM chips. The pad is very small, probably around 3/16"x3/16". Again, this thickness in the pad is required to make contact with the ND5, so don't lose it. It's small, so that wouldn't even be a challenge. Keep track of it. Here's a before and after:
This is the back of the ND5, the side that makes contact with all the RAM pads, HDCP chip pad, and the copper part, of course, makes contact with the G80 GPU core. The initial picture shows the clamshell platic cover that keeps the TIM from getting smeared of damaged in shipping.
Here's the clamshell removed. It is stuck to the Cu section of the cooler with a clear adhesive. Alcohol or AS Cleaner will make short work of any residual gunk when you remove the clamshell.
At this point, I have wiped the pre-installed TIM off with a paper towel, and am getting ready to use the AS Cleaner 2-step process. I don't trust OEM TIM, I don't care what anybody says. I could have left it I suppose, but if you have ever looked at your G80 core, it's huge. The installed TIM was like 1/2"x1/2", and I just can't trust that it is sufficient, despite my best efforts to trust ThermalTake.
TIM cleaned with AS Cleaner, ready to go.
The victim, trembling and ready for a violation...lucky, not a warranty violation, thanks to eVGA's warranty policy on aftermarket coolers.
The G80 core with 5 dots of AS5 on it. Yes, that's a lot (you know you were thinking it!), and I made sure to remove the excess when it was all fairly even. Here's a before and after:
Here is the back of the 8800 and it is sitting on the ND5 at this point, the mounting hardware is out, and the holes are all aligned. Be sure to use the included plastic washers to keep from shorting your card (or worse, frying it) when mounting the cooler to the card. I'm going to keep it short here, but here's the process:
From the back of the cards PCB, this shows the height of the ND5 over the stock cooler. Like I said before, this is approximately 2" above the PCB.
Another top down shot here. this one, showing the TMG ND5 installed on the 8800, and how the visual appearance is. From the front it is obvious that the cooler is above the PCB at the top section, but hard to see just how much.
And finally, we have the approximate line up (of where each card would be positionally on the card, in relation to one another) of the eVGA 8800GTS SC edition stock cooler versus the ThermalTake TMG ND5 cooler. This shows how much the dimensions differ between the stock cooler and the ND5. Also present is the rear-venting of the ND5 versus the backplate venting of the stock cooler. Notice that the ND5 is much stockier, opting for vertical expansion over the stock coolers lengthier solution. I would expect that this allows the ND5 to dump the heat quicker from the card because the heat being generated has less distance to travel. With the stock cooler, the hot air has to travel the entire length of the card, heating components along the way. With the ND5, what we get is a shorter run from heat source to heat exhaust. The drawback with the ND5 (as previously stated) is that it will be venting towards your intake fans. I can't imagine why ThermalTake went this route, and I have concerns that a forceful fan setup (for intake) could overpower the ND5's 80mm fan's ability to expell the air against the incoming air pressure provided courtesy of the intake fans on your case.
All of that being said, and done, I am now running SLi. I have both of my cards flashed to 650core/950memory. This was a lowest common denominator solution. My original card was flashed to 665/965 with the original cooler, but the new card had been tested by the previous owner to 650/950. I tested it myself, after installing the NS5, and found that I could go higher, but I had concerns about stability and heat.
I must say that I have added Sharka to my favorites list after dealing with them. They were top notch in getting these to me, and assisting my anxiety when I asked for a tracking number from work because I was too dumb to write it down before I left my house. If you haven't dealt with them before, I suggest you check them out!
Thermaltake has another well planned and delivered product on their hands. We all know and love them for many reasons. Even if you're not a fan, they do provide alternatives in design and function in the marketplace. That, in and of itself, it good for all of us. More products competing for market share in the enthusiast market benefits us all at some point, even if you're really on a budget. It's the trickle down effect. What is hot and high-end now will come to the budget sector in time, and we're all better off for it.
I bet you're all wondering what the temps are like with these, right? All temperatures were obtained in all cases using nvmonitor, and recorded by using the logging capability built in to the application, recording it to a TXT file. Load temps are obtained by running 2 back to back instances of 3DMark06 (since I can't get ATiTool 0.26Beta to read my clocks), the highest load temp obtained is wat is reported. My apologies for not having reported all of the information when I initially made this post last night. I was just trying to get this out before I went to bed. In a cooler review, one of the most important things would be, of course, the temperature differences. I have fixed the layout after going back this morning, and reading it....I was confused. Sorry about that, here's the data (hopefully, in a more readable format).
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 62c (idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 59c (idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 67c(idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 65c(idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 73c(idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 71c(idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 82c (load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 79c (load on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 84c(load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 82c(load on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 88c(load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 84c(load)
So, despite my concerns about intake fans over-pressuring the 80mm fans on the ND5s, the coolers are doing well. I think, unlike Thermalright, ThermalTake has opted for quieter operation (compared to the stock cooler) instead of a maximum OC cooler. I have done many aftermarket video card mods, and the temp drops on those were more substantial. However, I am kind of prone to doing the swap anyways. I'm an excess kind of guy (where I can afford it). I like these more (aesthetically) than the stock cooler.
I may have left something out that you wanted to know, so post it here in the thread! I was PM'ed several times regarding this purchase, and asked to provide some information on these coolers when I had them installed. Well, now you know my take on these. My rig specs are in my sig line, so check them out if you're curious about my particular setup. I hope it helped for those that are considering this because the Thermalrights are too big. Let me know what you think!
I bought an additional eVGA 8800GTS 320MB SC edition here on the forums. The catch was that the card was currently (at the time of purchase) being watercooled. The seller informed me ahead of time that the stock cooler was non-operational, so I set out to find new coolers for my existing card and the new one that was on the way. I had looked at the Thermalright coolers, but the idea of giving up more than two slots just wasn't sitting well with me, despite the performance that Thermalright is reknowned for. As I was searching the forums, I found someone that linked to Sharka Corporation, and the new-ish TMG ND5 cooler (in stock). After looking at the price, while it wasn't bad, I started looking around for other US resellers that had other 8800GTS/GTX cooling solutions...there wasn't any. I then began looking for other resellers of the TMG ND5...there wasn't any. I figured that it was "a sign" and that I should go ahead and pull the trigger on these. For those that have been looking, and want to go check out ThermalTake's marketing product page, and the link to Sharka Corporation, here you go:
Sharka Corporations TMG ND5 link
ThermalTake's product page
Now to start on the real dirt. The stock 8800 cooler that we all know and love has the fan at the rear of the card (near the power connections). The TMG ND5 is the opposite orientation. The 80mm fan on the cooler is near the DVI ports. The cooler blows the air out towards what will be the front of your case. This has caused an interesting dilemma for me. I was planning on a case re-wire job tomorrow, as I have also recently moved up to a eVGA 680i A1...and the previous wire job was for a P5B Deluxe/AP-Wifi Edition. Stuff just isn't in the same place between the two boards. At any rate, I have 3x120mm intake fans just inches from the exhaust of the TMG ND5...which if you recall what I just said, is pushing it's hot air at my intake fans. I will have to choose my fan layout carefully during the rewire. I know that was a bit long-winded, but I think it's worth mentioning, as I know many of you (except you WC'ers, maybe), are going to be in the same boat I am.
The coolers are taller than your stock cooler. Many of us that change video card cooling solutions from stock to something else, are aware of this being pretty normal. The TMG ND5 runs about 2.0" inches above the top of the card. Make sure that your case can support the additional width (when positioned horizontally in a tower case) that this cooler protrudes. Get the measuring tape it you have to. You'll see examples of this in the pictures I post below.
The TMG ND5 does NOT interfere with SLi bridge connections. If it did, I would call ThermalTake's R&D department and give them what for. Aside from the additional height in the cooler, there's nothing about this cooler that will prevent normal connections for SLi users, like myself.
Now that you have all of my "issues" with the cooler, here's some step by step install stuff, and some notes on that whole process.
The victims are two eVGA 8800GTS 320MB SC editions (no GTS 320MB flames, please...that's not why I am doing this):
The replacement coolers for the stock ones arrived in perfect shape, on time from Sharka Corp. They were more than helpful to me, throughout the order process. The items were shipped within 24 hours from ordering, and they provided tracking information upon shipment. This is what we have all come to expect from places like ZZF, ClubIT, and Newegg. It's nice to see a company (whom I have never dealt with, or even heard of before this!) follow suit, and let you know what's going on. I even e-mailed the customer service contact representative while I was at work (because I can't access my personal e-mail there...it's an Air Force Base, and they block it) to get my tracking information that I had forgotten to write down...they responded within an hour with the tracking number so that I could quell my anxiousness. That's above and beyond, as far as I am concerned!
This comprises the retail packaging that Thermaltake gives you. The cooler, the mounting hardware, a TMG ND5 stiocker for your case badge library, instructions, thermal pads, mosfet sinks,and product registration information card, for your records. As we have all come to expect, pretty standard fare here.
The first victim for the cooler install. At this point, I have installed the RAM thermal interface pads. Note that they are probably close to 1/8" thick. Using AS5 simply does not work for the RAM, so don't even try. The cooler (stock and the ND5) sit mainly on the GPU core (which is massive), and will not make contact with the RAM chips. If you choose not to use these pads, and elect to find your own, keep this in mind.
These are the mosfet aluminum coolers. I could have removed the provided adhesive and replaced it with AS Ceramique (and may, in the future), but I was far to excited to get all this installed (remember, I had two cards to do). They're small, and there's four of them. Not much else to do but peel off the backing and stick them on...hopefully you aren't drinking and they are on straight and covering all 3 chips intended to be covered.
Picture of what 3 out of 4 installed mosfet aluminum sinks looks like:
Now, someone may correct me on what exactly this chip is on the 8800 cards. I think it could be the HDCP compositing chip...I don't know for sure. Regardless, the thermal pad for this one matches the thickness for the RAM chips. The pad is very small, probably around 3/16"x3/16". Again, this thickness in the pad is required to make contact with the ND5, so don't lose it. It's small, so that wouldn't even be a challenge. Keep track of it. Here's a before and after:
This is the back of the ND5, the side that makes contact with all the RAM pads, HDCP chip pad, and the copper part, of course, makes contact with the G80 GPU core. The initial picture shows the clamshell platic cover that keeps the TIM from getting smeared of damaged in shipping.
Here's the clamshell removed. It is stuck to the Cu section of the cooler with a clear adhesive. Alcohol or AS Cleaner will make short work of any residual gunk when you remove the clamshell.
At this point, I have wiped the pre-installed TIM off with a paper towel, and am getting ready to use the AS Cleaner 2-step process. I don't trust OEM TIM, I don't care what anybody says. I could have left it I suppose, but if you have ever looked at your G80 core, it's huge. The installed TIM was like 1/2"x1/2", and I just can't trust that it is sufficient, despite my best efforts to trust ThermalTake.
TIM cleaned with AS Cleaner, ready to go.
The victim, trembling and ready for a violation...lucky, not a warranty violation, thanks to eVGA's warranty policy on aftermarket coolers.
The G80 core with 5 dots of AS5 on it. Yes, that's a lot (you know you were thinking it!), and I made sure to remove the excess when it was all fairly even. Here's a before and after:
Here is the back of the 8800 and it is sitting on the ND5 at this point, the mounting hardware is out, and the holes are all aligned. Be sure to use the included plastic washers to keep from shorting your card (or worse, frying it) when mounting the cooler to the card. I'm going to keep it short here, but here's the process:
From the back of the cards PCB, this shows the height of the ND5 over the stock cooler. Like I said before, this is approximately 2" above the PCB.
Another top down shot here. this one, showing the TMG ND5 installed on the 8800, and how the visual appearance is. From the front it is obvious that the cooler is above the PCB at the top section, but hard to see just how much.
And finally, we have the approximate line up (of where each card would be positionally on the card, in relation to one another) of the eVGA 8800GTS SC edition stock cooler versus the ThermalTake TMG ND5 cooler. This shows how much the dimensions differ between the stock cooler and the ND5. Also present is the rear-venting of the ND5 versus the backplate venting of the stock cooler. Notice that the ND5 is much stockier, opting for vertical expansion over the stock coolers lengthier solution. I would expect that this allows the ND5 to dump the heat quicker from the card because the heat being generated has less distance to travel. With the stock cooler, the hot air has to travel the entire length of the card, heating components along the way. With the ND5, what we get is a shorter run from heat source to heat exhaust. The drawback with the ND5 (as previously stated) is that it will be venting towards your intake fans. I can't imagine why ThermalTake went this route, and I have concerns that a forceful fan setup (for intake) could overpower the ND5's 80mm fan's ability to expell the air against the incoming air pressure provided courtesy of the intake fans on your case.
All of that being said, and done, I am now running SLi. I have both of my cards flashed to 650core/950memory. This was a lowest common denominator solution. My original card was flashed to 665/965 with the original cooler, but the new card had been tested by the previous owner to 650/950. I tested it myself, after installing the NS5, and found that I could go higher, but I had concerns about stability and heat.
I must say that I have added Sharka to my favorites list after dealing with them. They were top notch in getting these to me, and assisting my anxiety when I asked for a tracking number from work because I was too dumb to write it down before I left my house. If you haven't dealt with them before, I suggest you check them out!
Thermaltake has another well planned and delivered product on their hands. We all know and love them for many reasons. Even if you're not a fan, they do provide alternatives in design and function in the marketplace. That, in and of itself, it good for all of us. More products competing for market share in the enthusiast market benefits us all at some point, even if you're really on a budget. It's the trickle down effect. What is hot and high-end now will come to the budget sector in time, and we're all better off for it.
I bet you're all wondering what the temps are like with these, right? All temperatures were obtained in all cases using nvmonitor, and recorded by using the logging capability built in to the application, recording it to a TXT file. Load temps are obtained by running 2 back to back instances of 3DMark06 (since I can't get ATiTool 0.26Beta to read my clocks), the highest load temp obtained is wat is reported. My apologies for not having reported all of the information when I initially made this post last night. I was just trying to get this out before I went to bed. In a cooler review, one of the most important things would be, of course, the temperature differences. I have fixed the layout after going back this morning, and reading it....I was confused. Sorry about that, here's the data (hopefully, in a more readable format).
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 62c (idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 59c (idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 67c(idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 65c(idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 73c(idle on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 71c(idle on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 82c (load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition stock, single card @ 576/850 = 79c (load on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 84c(load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked, single card @650/950 = 82c(load on ND5)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 88c(load on STOCK COOLER)
8800GTS SC edition overclocked , SLi overclocked @ 650/950 = 84c(load)
So, despite my concerns about intake fans over-pressuring the 80mm fans on the ND5s, the coolers are doing well. I think, unlike Thermalright, ThermalTake has opted for quieter operation (compared to the stock cooler) instead of a maximum OC cooler. I have done many aftermarket video card mods, and the temp drops on those were more substantial. However, I am kind of prone to doing the swap anyways. I'm an excess kind of guy (where I can afford it). I like these more (aesthetically) than the stock cooler.
I may have left something out that you wanted to know, so post it here in the thread! I was PM'ed several times regarding this purchase, and asked to provide some information on these coolers when I had them installed. Well, now you know my take on these. My rig specs are in my sig line, so check them out if you're curious about my particular setup. I hope it helped for those that are considering this because the Thermalrights are too big. Let me know what you think!
