What components needed for first HTPC?

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peTeMelster

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
198
Hey guys, sorry for the newbie question. I've tried reading the sticky hear, but it's too much and most of the links don't work anymore.

My question is what do I need to set up my first HTPC?

I know it's basically a computer, but then, what makes it different than normal computers?

What are the components that a HTPC has that normal computers don't? Both on the software and hardware end.

I think HTPCs use HDTV cards, right? What is the best card for this? I've tried to do some reseach on it and it's all very confusing - ATSC, NTSC, digital, analog, different inputs, different image quality through the same inputs, other features, remote controls, software bundles. I have no idea where to start to choose one. Any tips?

And software - which software do I need?
 
peTeMelster said:
What are the components that a HTPC has that normal computers don't?
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Mostly the software. Some people want their HTPC to be really quiet so they buy those parts. Basically you'll need a vc with outputs to compat. w/ your display. Also you'll need a soundcard. Then if you wanted to you can run software like SageTV or MCE 2005. If you want to tune into your "tv" you'll need a tuner that will accept and tune your particular type of service. There are tuners for most every type of service. If you don't know what type of tuner you need you need to tell us what service you have. Also check out the avs bb for tuners. SageTV will use your hauppauge remote.
 
The soundcard on my motherboard won't work?

Well, my display will either be a normal computer monitor (VGA or DVI) or my HDTV (also VGA or DVI, no HDMI).

Can I use onboard video card?

Mostly, I would want my HTPC to be able to record TV shows to my hard drive that I can watch normally on my TV. Isn't that the whole point of an HTPC?

I guess my question is, how do I know/figure out what kind of tuner card I would need? I'm not sure what you mean by service. I have basic free TV at home plus some shows from Asia (I guess that's satellite?) Then at school, I get basic cable (i.e. VH1, MTV). I would like to be able to capture both at home and at school. Is there one tuner card that can just capture anything and everything?

I've been hearing the term hauppauge a lot. What is hauppauge?

Thanks!
 
peTeMelster said:
The soundcard on my motherboard won't work?

Well, my display will either be a normal computer monitor (VGA or DVI) or my HDTV (also VGA or DVI, no HDMI).

Can I use onboard video card?

Mostly, I would want my HTPC to be able to record TV shows to my hard drive that I can watch normally on my TV. Isn't that the whole point of an HTPC?

I guess my question is, how do I know/figure out what kind of tuner card I would need? I'm not sure what you mean by service. I have basic free TV at home plus some shows from Asia (I guess that's satellite?) Then at school, I get basic cable (i.e. VH1, MTV). I would like to be able to capture both at home and at school. Is there one tuner card that can just capture anything and everything?

I've been hearing the term hauppauge a lot. What is hauppauge?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It depends on the soundcard the MB has, mine does S/PDIF in and out so thats all I use. Otherwise I wouldnt touch its regular outputs. If your MB has Optical or Coax out and you have a reciever or the TV has Digital audio in then go that route.

You can use your onboard video card, but you really dont want to, it wont have enough juice to power everything very well. Even more so if you every want to throw up HD. Now you dont have to go break the bank with a video card, but definately an Nvidia 7x serries minimum or equivilant card would do great. In mine I currently have my old 6800 running, the CPU cant handle HD so its not a big deal at the moment, my main system was upgraded so HTPC has to wait for new stuff.

Recording TV show's is just a perk of the HTPC. If thats all your really after maybe consider just buying a DVR? I am saving up and waiting a little while for a good HD tuner so I can record that stuff when I am not home, but as I only have off air programming, no rush.

As for your service, if you pay for cable or satelite then you will have to run a cable out from that box into your tuner card and so forth. Now there is software that can allow your HTPC to take controll of the satelite for recording and more maybe (heard of it and googled some a while ago) but I dont know anything at all about it. At school if they have everything set up on their end and you just plug into the wall then just plug the wall into the HTPC and go from there.

Hauppauge is a tuner card brand from WinTV I think that is generally considerd the "best" or most commonly purchased.

Back to your origional post, HTPC's dont really have anything extra that a regular PC doesnt. Maybe a Tuner card if you dont use ATI's. They generally have a lot more hard drive capacity depending on how your set up is going to work. For mine at the moment I just took my old computer and its 750 gig's and put it in a new home theater styled case, bought a motion sensing mouse and wireless keyboard combo and that was it. When I have the money to upgrade it will get a CPU that can handle HD, a video card to match, much better hard drive set up with SATA for speed (dont know about using raid for backup of data), otherwise its already got a gig of ram and runs very well. A lot of what makes the HTPC as well as a few hard drive tweeks can be your software. If you stick with Xp, Vista, or go with XP media center it can change your experience and look a decent ammount.

On my main system I change drivers and tweek things a lot, but I get the HTPC running and I leave it alone. My video upconverting is done through Zoom Player and the 20 doller Nvidia DVD codec, instead of putting 2 - 300 dollers into a good upconverting DVD player I get pretty good results for only 30 dollers. (Actually bought ZP and Codec.) The only thing that really stress's the computer is ripping DVD .vob's to the hard drives so that I dont have to load discs, just load the file I want.
Theres a lot more that they can do and mine is a very humble first build but I love it and dont think I could have a regular set up again. To much convenience and perks from the lowely set up I have now to switch.

I would suggest making a list of;

-Budget
-Needs
-Future?
-Space
-Portability?

and see what you can get to fill those needs.

There are a lot of really smart people on this forum who know a lot more than I do, so maybe one of them will add their brain to this threat but hopefully some of the junk I said will help you out a little. Or just give you some refrence.
 
Hello and welcome to the forums.

You might want to check this out.
http://www.velocitymicro.com/category.php?cid=33
It doesn't sound like you are too sure about building a computer. HTPC's can be trickier than a regular desktop because of the specialized parts and software configuration. I'd recommend a Velocity Micro HTPC for you. They are reasonably priced and very good.
 
Ripskin said:
You can use your onboard video card, but you really dont want to, it wont have enough juice to power everything very well. Even more so if you every want to throw up HD.
Click to expand...
Which I guess explains how the 6150 series IGP was popular for HTPC use. :rolleyes:

Lets break it down into something that is actually helpful and accurate. If you're going Intel then you should pick up a video card cause the Intel IGP is pretty much crap for HTPC use (theres little hardware acceleration, if it's even working correctly, and the level of video quality from it isn't even worth trying it out); if you're going with an AMD setup then you can go with a board based on NV's 7050 chipset (pretty much just one on the market right now) which is the best option around still if you plan on going with HD material (Blue-ray/HD-DVD stuff) as well as regular SD material. Theres also AMD's 690G chipset but when it comes to HD material it doesn't fare as well as the 7050 (or even the older 6150 IGP) but there are plenty of boards around that use it and it is a decent option.

If you want the full experience (like being able to handle 1080i/p content) then you need a seperate video card, for pretty much everything else the onboard video is enough to handle it.
Recording TV show's is just a perk of the HTPC.
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Exactly, no one said that you even have to record TV with an HTPC. Basically if you have a lot of video/audio content and wish to display it then an HTPC makes the best solution.
I guess my question is, how do I know/figure out what kind of tuner card I would need? I'm not sure what you mean by service. I have basic free TV at home plus some shows from Asia (I guess that's satellite?) Then at school, I get basic cable (i.e. VH1, MTV). I would like to be able to capture both at home and at school. Is there one tuner card that can just capture anything and everything?
Click to expand...
He's asking how you get your TV? Is it cable TV, regular over the air (OTA) or do you have satellite? Is this in the US or overseas (from the US)?
Hauppauge is a tuner card brand from WinTV I think that is generally considerd the "best" or most commonly purchased.
Click to expand...
Hauppauge is the company, the (old) brand was WinTV which now is just the name of the crappy TV viewing software that comes with their cards. Hauppauge's cards are considered the "safe choice" cause you can easily go down to any tech shop (like CompUSA or even Circuit City, Best Buy) and pick one up and it will give you decent results.
Back to your origional post, HTPC's dont really have anything extra that a regular PC doesnt. Maybe a Tuner card if you dont use ATI's. They generally have a lot more hard drive capacity depending on how your set up is going to work.
Click to expand...
Okay....

Building an HTPC isn't any different then building a system meant for gaming or one meant for surfing the net; you just have keep in mind what you want to do with it and select the best parts from there. You wouldn't put a 8800GTS into a system meant for Mom and Dad to surf the net, would you?

Keeping with that an HTPC is 20% hardware and 80% software; software is what can make or break your HTPC.
I would suggest making a list of;

-Budget
-Needs
-Future?
-Space
-Portability?
Click to expand...
Very nice list, this is something that the OP needs to respond to if he's going to get any real constructive help cause right now we know none of these things.

Oh, as for the sound card. You don't really need one (even if he's using the analog outs) cause the onboard is decent enough for about 90% of HTPC builds. There are situations where you would need a seperate sound card but seeing as how you're even asking this question I would take it that you don't need one.
 
Thanks guys, lots of great info.

Let me try to answer the requisite questions so I can get better help.

Budget
As cheap as possible, hopefully $500-600 including everything except monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse.

Needs
Mostly just want to record TV shows at specified times, often when I will not be at home. The case does not have to match existing furniture or electronics. I don't care about a HTPC case, and in fact, I will be using the Antec Sonata II with its included 450W Antec SmartPower power supply that I have laying around. Would be nice to do things such as HD video editing (which I know does take a lot of power if you want it to be smooth) and playing back video and audio files smoothly. No gaming or at most, light gaming. Other simple things - Word, Excel, and basic functions like that.

Quiet noise levels are NOT required for now. Later, I'll build an HTPC that is quiet too, but for now, I don't care about quietness. Want to be able to watch TV from my computer and record the shows, plus do the other typical functions of a normal computer. I know all about things like quieter fans, fanless PSUs, fanless graphic cards, better CPU heatsinks, foam padding, hard drive suspensions and isolation.

Future
Would like some space for upgrades, such as a faster, better CPU (so I'm probably getting a P35 motherboard) or DDR3 memory. The CPU I will be using for sure is the Intel E4300 Core 2 Duo 1.8ghz 2mb L2 cache.

Space
Plenty of space. But I'm not sure what you mean. How big is my room? Or how big can I have the HTPC be? The HTPC could be, I don't know, 2 feet by 2 feet by 1 foot and I'd be fine. It can even be bigger. Again, looks and space aren't big concerns for me. Like I said though, I'm definitely using the Antec Sonata II case and its included PSU.

Portability
Doesn't have to be portable. Is going to be parked in the living room. Although, sure, some portability would be nice, but I'm not looking for something super small.

=========================================================================================

The parts I will be using for sure are:
*Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 CPU
*Antec Sonata II case and Antec SmartPower 450W PSU
*Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500gb 16mb cache hard drive or maybe the Western Digital SE16-something (can't stand the loud seeks on the Seagate 7200.10 drive). I hear the Samsung SpinPoint have switched the a noisy JVC motor, so it's no longer good if silence is what I'm striving for.

Parts I'm Considering:
Graphics Card:
I was thinking of the Nvidia 8500 GT card, because it has a special engine to decode HD H.264 content, even better than the 8800 GTX. The 8600 GTS has this engine too. But really, as cheap of a video card I can get away with. I would like HDCP though.

Sound card
Do I really need one? I'm usually satisfied with the onboard sound. I'm not an audiophile. Unless I am not getting any sound recorded or the sound being recorded is recorded inferiorly (as opposed to just being played back inferiorly), then I will stick with onboard.

CPU Cooler
Probably just use the stock Intel CPU cooler too, unless heat really is a concern. Yeah, I know using it will defeat the goal of silence, but oh well. The person I'm building it for doesn't care about noise levels.

========================================================================
My situation now is this:
I already recently built less than a month ago a new desktop computer meant to be a workhorse computer for video editing with these specs:
*Antec 900 case
*Intel E4300 CPU (this is the CPU I will use in my HTPC...I will literally take the CPU from this computer and put it in the HTPC, and upgrade my video editing station with the Q6600)
*Gigabyte P35C-DS3R motherboard
*Crucial Ballistix 240-pin dual channel 2x1gb RAM (DDR2 PC2-8500) with 5-5-5-15 timing at 2.1 volts
*Antec Earthwatts 500W Power Supply
*Lite-on 20X DVD burner with Lightscribe
*Scythe Ninja Plus B CPU heatsink with Noctua NF-12 800RPM fan instead of the Scythe fan
*random PCI card to get Firewire IEEE 1394.
*Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500gb 16mb cache hard drive
*no audio card, using onboard sound, which is HD audio, not AC97

I am building this new HTPC mainly for a family member. He doesn't need as high performance parts as I do, so I am switching some items from my video editing station into his HTPC. Those parts are the E4300 CPU and probably my Seagate hard drive. I will replace my hard drive with a couple Western Digital 500gb drives.

We already bought the case and PSU, so that's set in stone. So is the CPU. Everything else is up in the air. I'm hoping for $500 though. We got the case/PSU for $50 and the CPU for $82, so that leaves $368-468 (maybe that's not enough though, so I guess I can stretch it to $568 if really necessary) for everything else.

The Nvidia 8500 GT can be had for around $60, and I think it's good enough, right? If not, I might throw in the Nvidia 8600 GTS fanless version I have now into his HTPC and get myself a 8800 GTS or GTX (although I lose the HD engine, the quad core CPU should be plenty fast enough).

Audio card - again, do I need it? If so, is a cheap $30 Creative Audigy card good enough?

I was hoping to get a cheap P35 motherboard for the HTPC, around $50 if possible. $100 if necessary, and if that's still not enough, then I'll get the same Gigabyte board I got for my video editing station for $160.

Cheap DVD burner - $35

Hard Drive - $110-120 budget for either the Seagate or Western Digital 500gb.

THESE ARE MY MAIN QUESTIONS:

Capture Card (tuner card)
This is where I don't understand anything. What do I need? What is the "best" card that can capture things at the best possible quality (I'm guessing that'd be digital rather than analog) from all types of sources. I'm quite confused about all the talk about over the air broadcast, exclusive broadcast, satellite, direct TV, cable, normal TV, ATSC, NTSC, and whatever else there might be.

I want a card that can capture everything from anywhere at the best quality, but I don't know - maybe the cost is prohibitive. So, I'd like to be informed about all the different models and what kind of features they have. Really, I have no idea what features a capture card even needs or can even have.

Another question: If recording TV shows is just a perk of a HTPC, then what would it's main purpose be usually? I mean, can't all normal computers already play video and audio stuff well so long as you have the right codecs?

I am located in the US, but am getting satellite TV shows from overseas (Asia). I want to capture those shows. I also want to capture normal shows in the US too though. Normal TV. Cable TV (which I'll have at school). Hi definition content. Everything. Although the HTPC I'm building will stay at home, I'm bringing my video editing station to school, and on that computer, I'd also like to be able to watch TV (including the cable that my school provides, and in the future, any satellite programs I might get), and record those shows as well.

What capture cards would you recommend, and what kind of features do they have? Software too - if software is 80%, that's pretty important. What differences are there in the software?

Also, can you tell me more about this ZoomPlayer and Nvidia codec? What purpose do they serve? I have the following players:
VLC
Media Classic Player
Winamp
Windows Media Player
GOM Player
Quicktime Pro
DivX Player

As far as codecs, I have a bunch too. ffdshow and the combined community codec pack (which includes a whole bunch of codecs).

Thanks again!
 
So, wait. This sounds like a general work system with a tuner card more then an HTPC. What exactly are you trying to do with this system?
 
Well...hmm...what exactly is a HTPC then? I asked above and the answers I seemed to get were it has special software and a tuner (capture) card.

What makes the HTPC different than a normal computer?

And to be clear, the video editing computer is a separate computer than the HTPC I'm trying to build.

I want to be able to watch the TV shows I get normally through my PC and be able to record them. That's the primary function. Secondly, I want to be able to do general PC tasks - Word, Excel, some light video editing (the heavy editing goes to my video editing computer), playback of video and audio content.

Computer #1: Video Editing Workhorse
Main purpose: heavy editing of hi-definition videos
Secondary purpose: general PC usage
Tertiary purpose: watch TV and record TV shows on the PC

Computer #2: HTPC (but it doesn't have to physically look like a HTPC, as long as it functions like one)
Main purpose: watch TV and record TV shows on the PC
Secondary purpose: general PC usage
Tertiary purpose: light video editing
 
peTeMelster said:
Well...hmm...what exactly is a HTPC then? I asked above and the answers I seemed to get were it has special software and a tuner (capture) card.

What makes the HTPC different than a normal computer?
Click to expand...
A dedicated rig for playing back media. Think "TiVo/high end DVD player on steriods," you wouldn't use Word on something like that.

I want to be able to do general PC tasks - Word, Excel...
Click to expand...
That is not an HTPC. If you want an HTPC then these things have to go.

What you want is a PC that has a TV tuner in it. Pretty simple, just buy a TV tuner and some decent PVR software (if you need an OS then get MCE or Vista Home Premium and use the PVR app included with them).
 
So what does a HTPC do better than a normal quality computer? Plays video and audio? I think my video editing computer plays the videos and audio pretty well, I don't see where the extra quality would come from. I mean, all modern computers can play back video/audio well now, so why not allow the PC to also do normal PC stuff like Word, Excel, light video editing, etc.?

According to wikipedia, a HTPC is simply a standard PC connected to a TV. Nowadays, that basically bars no modern computer. I mean, my video editing computer has DVI and VGA outputs, which are able to connect to my HDTV. People not intending HTPCs hook up 37" Westinghouse HDTVs to use as their computer monitor, even though it's really a TV. I'm just having a hard time seeing why you would build a HTPC if all it can do is play media files and record TV shows, considering that virtually all modern computers can do that and much more.

Wikipedia points out a few more characteristics of the HTPC:
quiet
large storage capacity

But, I always want my computers as silent as possible. So this is hardly a HTPC characteristic. In fact, noise should be quieter on a normal desktop computer because you are much closer to it and might even sleep with it on in your room, while the noise in the lviing room is usually louder and you are farther away from the HTPC, so the HTPC can be a little louder than normal desktops before you'll notice the noise. And in terms of large capacity, most people have pretty large capacity hard drives nowaday. I have 500gb and am planning to upgrade to 1 TB. I think that definitely qualifies as large capacity, so again, I don't see why this is a distinct HTPC characteristic.

Then I started reading the advantages of a HTPC on wikipedia.
1. May support HD and surround sound. Hmm. So do normal modern PCs. So no advantage there.
2. Digital video recording. Well, apparently with a tuner card and software, a normal PC can do that too. This is what you call a normal PC with a tuner card, which is not a HTPC, according to you.
3. One media location. Well, if all my video and audio files are on my hard drive, that's one location. I'm not understanding how this is different than a normal PC. Wiki also mentions easier to search for files by artist, genre, director, etc. I'm guessing this is a software advantage, and if you install such software on a normal PC, then again, no advantage.
4. Gaming. Normal PCs can game too, and usually are more powerful than HTPCs, so gaming on normal PCs would be better.

So...basically, I can't figure out how a HTPC is different than a standard modern PC with a tuner card and PVR software. The only difference I can think of is the HTPC computer case, which looks more like a DVD player than a desktop tower. But that's just cosmetics and not function. Perhaps it is that case that is the distinct characteristic that makes a computer a HTPC rather than a normal computer?

Sorry for the newbie question. I'd appreciate it if you could help clarify for me. Thanks!
 
peTeMelster said:
So what does a HTPC do better than a normal quality computer? Plays video and audio? I think my video editing computer plays the videos and audio pretty well, I don't see where the extra quality would come from.
Click to expand...
Is your computer connected to your TV? Is it tweaked specifically for media playback? Is it setup to be controlled by a remote? How about by someone like your parents?
 
It's not connected to a TV, but it can be. Is that the difference? So if I hook up my comp to a monitor its a normal comp, but if I hook it up to a TV its a HTPC?

What do you mean by tweak for media playback? What kind of tweaks should I do?

No remote, but that could be easily added to a normal computer can't it?

Setup controlled by my parents? You mean like password protection for certain content that parents might deem unsuitable for their kids? No, it's not. But again, isn't that just what the software can do? So if I install this software on a normal PC, it'd be able to do that too.

I guess what my question is is why would you allow a dedicated media center (HTPC) only do media playback when it has the potential to do so much more?

Thanks for your patience, CrimandEvil!
 
peTeMelster said:
It's not, but it can be. Is that the difference? So if I hook up my comp to a monitor its a normal comp, but if I hook it up to a TV its a HTPC?

What do you mean by tweak for media playback? What kind of tweaks should I do?

I guess what my question is is why would you allow a dedicated media center (HTPC) only do media playback when it has the potential to do so much more?
Click to expand...
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1183955&highlight=Why+an+HTPC?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1140378&highlight=Why+an+HTPC?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1194274&highlight=Why+an+HTPC?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1114840&highlight=Why+an+HTPC?
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1113772&highlight=Why+an+HTPC?

Those should help explain "why."
 
Hmm, the gist I'm getting from those threads is that an HTPC is a dumbed-down version of a normal desktop computer then. And because they are dumbed down, they are dedicated to media stuff only. Why not use it for other general PC tasks? Because it's too much of a hassle, is more organized only to have media files rather than a whole bunch of other files along with it, and it's in the living room, so there's not as much privacy as a PC in your personal room: that's the general gist I'm reading.

Well, to me, it's not too much of a hassle and those other issues and unimportant to me, so I'm going to build a powerful non-dedicated HTPC then, which is essentially a full-fledged PC computer that can do all that a dedicated HTPC can do plus so much more.

I still find it very hard to understand why you'd limit your computer to do only media stuff though when it's very capable to do much more.

In any case, I'd still need a capture card recommendation and software recommendations. Thanks!

I guess I am not building a HTPC, but a super center that does everything - all HTPC functions plus normal PC functions. Maybe a good comparison is why someone would get an .mp3 player that does nothing but play .mp3s (analogous to a dedicated HTPC) versus a cell phone that can also play .mp3s but also make calls, has a calculator, tells time, saves email addresses, and has a calendar (analogous to a normal PC with a tuner card and appropriate software).
 
If I missed it, then tell me what it is I missed.

I am yet to see what true advantage a HTPC that does only media stuff has over a computer that can do both HTPC functions plus all the normal PC functions. Why would you limit it to media only?

Normal computer with TV tuner/software:
-can do all normal PC stuff: Word, Excel, gaming, Photoshop, video editing, whatever else
-can play back video and audio files
-supports hi def and surround sound
-can have large storage
-can be very quiet
-can watch TV
-can record TV shows
-if you want a remote and wireless keyboard/mouse with range, they work with normal PCs too

HTPC
-can play back video and audio files
-can be very quiet
-can have large storage
-supports hi def and surround sound
-can watch TV
-can record TV shows
-cannot do normal PC stuff because if you did, then it wouldn't be a dedicated HTPC anymore and would be a normal PC that can do everything the HTPC can do plus more
-remote and wireless keyboard/mouse

So why limit the HTPC? So you can call it a HTPC by limiting its functionality?

The only advantages I can see are:
-if you get a HTPC case, it looks nice and matches your living room electronics better (again, I don't care about the looks of the HTPC for this build at least)
-you only have media files, so you won't get disoriented by having a whole bunch of other files (I fail to find the big deal in this...is it really that hard to find where your video/audio files are in a normal PC amidst the other files?)
-HTPCs are usually placed in the living room, so you can't use it as a normal PC without sacrificing privacy, therefore you'd put a normal PC in your personal room and be unable to sit on your living room couch and access your media files, while a dedicated HTPC placed in the living room allows you to do that (but for me, this isn't a big deal...I plan to either do normal PC stuff in the living room, or put the HTPC in a personal room and extend the cables coming out of the satellite receiver/cable boxes/whatever into the personal room)

What other advantages are there of a dedicated HTPC vs. a normal PC that has all the HTPC capabilities?

So what exactly are you sighing about? Tell me, what did I miss? Thanks!

The only other thing I can see is if somehow the HTPC will be better at playing back video/audio than a normal PC. If so, how does it accomplish this? Because I can't see how it would be able to play video/audio better than a normal PC with the same hardware, codecs, players, and software can.

A gaming rig? I regard that as a beefed up (because of better hardware) computer that can do gaming exceptionally well, better than the average general use PC with no true disadvantage - it can do everything a general use PC can do, but it has better performance for gaming.
A media center (HTPC)? I see it as a dumbed down computer if I try to see things from your point of view that is intended only to do media playback (even though it has the capability to do much more) compared to a general use PC. It's dumbed down because you choose not to use all its abilities, not because it necessarily has inferior hardware. In fact, I think a gaming rig with a tuner card and PVR software is the ultimate computer - it does general PC stuff, media playback, and performs better at gaming.

So unless I am missing something completely as you are claiming, I don't see the point in a dedicated HTPC. Yet, if so many people are into HTPCs that only do media playback and nothing else, there must be a point. Apparently I'm missing it, so please tell me what the point (aka advantage) is of a HTPC over a general use (or gaming) PC with tuner card and PVR software? Logically, the only thing I can think of is because the dedicated HTPC does media playback better than a general use PC. Yet, I've asked how is that possible, a question you have not really answered except to allude to things like "tweaking." I have no idea what tweaking means in this context, but logically, I'm thinking if you tweak your HTPC in a certain way, what is to say you can't do the same tweaks on the general use PC? Therefore, I don't see how an HTPC would be able to do media playback better than a general use PC, and hence I consider the HTPC a dumbed down version of a general use PC. You've basically built a general use PC with tuner card/PVR software, but don't call it a general use PC and call it a dedicated HTPC because you only allow it to do media playback. For what reason you would limit your computer like that, I can't fathom.

This is why I asked in the very beginning what separates a HTPC from a general use normal PC. No one has given me a very clear definitive definition, only pointing out some characteristics. But like I have shown, a general use PC can also have those exact same characteristics. Therefore, I came to the conclusion that if the only difference is a HTPC is only used to do media playback, then it's simply a dumbed down version of a general use PC (I fail to see what a HTPC can do that a normal PC can't, or I fail to see what a HTPC can do better than a normal PC).

Where is the flaw in my logic? From the informative I've received in this thread, I think my conclusion is very logical and sound. But yet, you say I missed it entirely, which means I am probably still missing some informative that you haven't related to me yet. Please tell me what this information is.

The final thing I can think of is this:
A HTPC is a dedicated media player and center, which would typically include things like remote controls and other media center related accessories.
A general use PC would not typically have things like remote controls (although it can) and media center accessories.
A gaming rig has better graphics cards, sound cards, and other components to make the gaming experience better. These components would not be found in a general use PC, although the general use PC can have them installed in it.

Therefore, if you start adding accessories or better components, you start transforming your general use PC into an HTPC or gaming rig. But this is where I find fault in what you've said earlier. You said that HTPCs are not allowed to use Word, Excel, etc. I argue, why the hell not? Because you want to limit it? Because by definition, HTPCs are not allowed to perform general PC tasks? Sounds stupid to me. Instead, I would say you now have a HTPC, but not limit it to media playback. You should allow it to do general PC tasks as well.

The same goes with the gaming rig. If you start adding better gfx cards and components, you have transformed your PC into a gaming rig. Yet, who limits their gaming rig to only gaming? People with gaming rigs still do normal PC stuff on their gaming rig - Word, Excel, Photoshop, whatever. So I simply extended my argument to HTPCs. Why the hell would you limit your HTPC to only media playback when it has the ability to perform general PC tasks as well. Again, the only reasons I can come up with are listed above, and like I said, I find those reasons to be no big deal to me and thus offer no real/true advantage over the general use PC with full HTPC capabilities (which in my view is really just a HTPC, not a general use PC, but you claim it is a general use PC with tuner card/software and not a true HTPC).

So let me summarize my points:
Definitions (according to me):
General use PC - a PC that is used for general tasks such as browsing the Internet, Word, Excel, Photoshop, playback of video/audio, etc. and nothing more
HTPC - a computer that can perform everything a general use computer does, but adds the extra capabilities to watch TV, record TV shows, adds media accessories such as remote controls that you would not use for general PC tasks
Gaming rig - a computer that can perform everything a general use PC does, but offers improved performance in gaming via better components (gfx cards, etc.), cannot watch TV/record shows, does not have remote controls for media playback
Ultimate computer - a computer that combines HTPC and gaming rig capabilities in one machine (so it can do HTPC, gaming, and general use)
Hybrid computers - a computer that combines some HTPC and some gaming capabilities together in one machine, but does not perform those specific functions as well as a dedicated HTPC or gaming rig does; does all general PC tasks as well

According to my definitions, the order of best to worst computers would be:
Ultimate (because it does everything)
Gaming/HTPC/Hybrid (tied, depends on what you want) (because it excels in certain areas)
General Use (because it cannot do certain functions or does them considerably worse than the above machines, excels nowhere)

Definitions (according to what I can gather from your viewpoints):
HTPC - a dedicated computer that does nothing but media stuff, typically comes with things such as remote controls and other media related accessories, can watch TV and record TV shows, not for use with Word, Excel, and other general PC uses (even though it has the ability to do general tasks, to use this computer for general tasks would render the computer no longer a HTPC, but rather a general use PC with TV tuner/software)
General PC with TV tuner/software - a computer that does general PC tasks but can also watch TV and record TV shows, it can also do everything a HTPC can do provided you outfit it with the right accessories such as remote control, software, etc. that dedicated HTPCs typically have

Why?! Why limit the HTPC to media stuff only? What am I missing?
 
Yeah, but at this point, I don't know how else to ask. I want to know what the difference is between a general PC vs. HTPC, and then what TV tuner card and software I should get. That's all.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum

First, let's take an example from ... cars.

The definition of a car is a machine on wheels, you can drive and go somewhere.

But you have different types of cars: F1, 4x4, family, trucks even wheelchairs.

With most of them you can do most things they are purported to do.

But every one has an ability and excells at it. You can allways have a multipourpose van and do most things all the time, so the name.

In PC world all PC can do all things. The question is if we are prepared to wait for the outcome (you can edit video files on a P3 1000 MHz and 256 Mb of memory, will take ages to make a movie in HD)

So, you go to the store, pick up a PC (any one) and you have multipourpose PC. You can surf the web, work at home, do finances, download your digital pictures, a little gaming and watch movies. But if you change the configuration and have a high end CPU, los of memory, a beefy HD and the best video card, you build a gaming rig; if you add a TV card it will still be a gaming rig, a weird one, because nobody uses a IR control remote on a gaming rig, still you can add it.

Downgrade the CPU and the video card, connect 8 video cameras and you have surveillance equipment, that can still surf the web, but you don't want to do that, the data is more important than taking the risk that some virus or spyware corrupts your computer.

And more, you can connect/install everything in the same PC and have an incredible multipourpose system that does everything part time. Yeah, i said part time, because a dedicated system is dedicated and do that little thing the best.

Say you put 2 TV cards in your system and decide to record simultaneously 2 TV programs while you put a job to muxe/demuxe a dvd movie and at the same time you want to play crysis (i know it's not out yet). I don't think you could acomplish that. So you build a couple of systems and you are happy because no one of your need interferes with the other.

So be happy, an HTPC is a little pretty box that sits in the living room and does not disturb the silence and is better a playing DVD than a DVD player with Divx, and can record TV or cable or satellite and reproduce on the TV, and uses a internet connection NOT to surf but to get info about movies, weather and TV programming; wich is controlled via a remote control and does not need a mouse or a keyboard and has an human interface to select watching TV, listening to music or play a movie.

All those things a regular PC can do also, but not as good.

Then again, is only my opinion
 
Honestly I think the term HTPC has been diluted to the point of where people just think it is a PC with tuner cards. This would be like, using a similar analogy as above, calling a race car as just a car with a big engine. This is not even close to the truth.

What is a HTPC...in short a PC for a home theatre. In a theatre enviroment do you edit word files or edit video? The answer should be no. An HTPC should take several theatre related tasks and simplify them into clean and neat interface. As CE mentioned above, your HTPC shoud take key functions (TV watching/watching recording, video playing (file or DVD), and music) and organize it in a way that your parents could use it. If it is anything less than that it now becomes bascially a PC hoooked up to yoru TV. That magic that allows you to put the letters HT in front of it is gone.

Note: Quite a few people play games in their theatres now...therefore gaming could be added in.

Therefore to the OP...if you are trying to actually create a HTPC then do that, but don't say you are trying to make a HTPC when you are trying to just make a PC that has some extra functions. The HTPC is mostly about the SW and silence.
 
So, that goes back to my question. Why limit the HTPC to do only media stuff when it has the ability to edit word files and other general tasks? You mentioned a HTPC should be a home theater that takes key functions (TV watching, etc.) and present it in an organized way. I don't see how a normal PC can't already do that. Unless you guys are seriously saying that if you have other files/applications like Word, that makes things too disorienting and not very organized anymore. Why would a general PC with tuner card be "anything less" than a computer that does solely media stuff? It seems that a general PC with tuner card is "more" not "less." The general PC with tuner card can do everything the so-called HTPC can, plus way more.

That's the part I'm having trouble understanding. What then, is your definition of an HTPC? From what I gather from your guy's point of view, an HTPC is a general use computer that has a tuner card/software, is tweaked to play media files back (via codecs and filters and such I guess), presents the user with an easy, organized way of accessing and playing media files, but is intentionally limited by the user to not do anything other than media playback.

I mean, I feel I can create a PC that can meet all the HTPC functional requirements (plays back media files, tweaked codecs, organized way of accessing the files, watch TV, record shows), so why isn't it a HTPC anymore if I decide I also want to edit Word files on it? Seems to me, my PC with full HTPC functionality, but no limitations on editing Word files and such would be the more powerful computer (not because it has better hardware, but because I am allowing the computer to perform other tasks ON TOP OF the HTPC functions). In no way am I limiting HTPC functions.

Does that question make sense?

The point that a previous user made about all PCs being able to do all things, but certain PCs excelling at certain spots (i.e. gaming, media playback). So a PC excelling at media playback is a HTPC. But I've made the point earlier that an HTPC would not excel at media playback over a general use PC that has the same hardware/software/codecs/tweaks. So that effectively knocks out the "advantage" part of the supposed HTPC because the HTPC's media playback "advantage" is not an advantage at all when the general use PC performs media playback identically. You get what I mean?

So that brings me to the conclusion that an HTPC is just a dumbed down PC with tuner card/software. Dumbed down because if you use it to do things like Word, then you can't call it a HTPC anymore, despite the fact that the computer has the ability to do so, despite the fact that the computer does play media well. Yet simply for definition sake, you choose not to because you want it to be a dedicated system only. That makes me think the difference between a HTPC and general use PC with tuner card and tweaked codecs is purely definitional. That's like saying my cell phone that also plays .mp3 files is a .mp3 player (not a cell phone) because I choose to only use it to play .mp3 files. That seems silly to me, so that's why I have this confusion.

What's SW mean? And as far a silence goes, I strive for that in all my computers, so it's not really a characteristic unique to HTPCs.
 
I understand what you're saying, but an HTPC is a Home Theater PC... once you start going past the function of it being just a Home Theater PC, such as adding Office, etc. then you're getting more into it just being a desktop with the ability to record tv, etc. The whole point of an HTPC is to view multimedia (tv, movies, pictures, etc). That's it. It's not supposed to do office documents, etc.

Is there something "wrong" with installing Office on an otherwise "normal" HTPC? No... it's your computer... do whatever you want with it. But the term HTPC generally refers to a computer that will sit at/in/on an entertainment center and provide.... well... entertainment... not Office documents.
 
HW = hardware
SW = software
FW = take a guess. ;)

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The point of the HTPC is the interface (ever play with MCE?) which many of us have mentioned time and time again. An HTPC w/o the interface is nothing more than a PC that does more tasks.

But it seems you have your idea stuck in your head and there is nothing we can do to change it. Rationalize all you want, but until the idea of compartmentalization actually makes sense this debate is nothing more than a revolving door. So good luck...I’m out.

EDIT: Just so you know...I used to think like you until I realized what other people were talking about. Don't worry, you'll get there. ;)
 
Yeah, thanks, you know, I'm trying to get there too. I just...am not understanding, which is why I'm asking about all this.

Anyways, I created a new thread on this topic as it's getting off topic of my original topic here. If people would like to join the discussion, it's over there now.

If the interface is the key difference, then finally, yes, I am starting to see the distinction. This is something that hasn't been mentioned to me earlier or maybe I missed it. However, still, to me, it's a small distinction to me. Interface was never a huge deal to me, so long as it performed the functions I want it to unless the interface is absolutely horrible.
 
peTeMelster said:
Yeah, thanks, you know, I'm trying to get there too. I just...am not understanding, which is why I'm asking about all this.

Anyways, I created a new thread on this topic as it's getting off topic of my original topic here. If people would like to join the discussion, it's over there now.

If the interface is the key difference, then finally, yes, I am starting to see the distinction. This is something that hasn't been mentioned to me earlier or maybe I missed it. However, still, to me, it's a small distinction to me. Interface was never a huge deal to me, so long as it performed the functions I want it to unless the interface is absolutely horrible.
Click to expand...

Bro, this is a really easy question to answer and understand if you are proficient with pc's at all.

EVERY non-necessary thing you add to or do to a pc changes it a bit.
Adding Microsoft Office in and of itself will effect a pc(effect an htpc negatively).

Actually run those programs and you no longer have a stable, quiet, pc with extra memory.

You have a memory-leakin pc begging to be rebooted.

Now you can always add in all these features and go overboard on parts so that the machine still functions very well but you'd be no where near your intended price point.

The simple reason why most people do not use add-ons to their htpc's is because it effects performance. The more pure the system the less the requirements and the less money you spend.

What one of the guys above is suggesting is that you could easily build out multiple cheap pc's to meet your needs without corrupting a "htpc".

More simply put you want ALL of your cpu going to home theater tasks, ALL your memory going to home theater tasks, ditto for the vid cards and everything else.

Some home theater guys actually use multiple pc's just for the home theater. They have a back end and front end. Its amazing what you can do with a 500 dollar pc truly dedicated to one task. They duplicate the 10k Crestron type home automation systems.
 
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