AMD's Direction and Next-Gen Bulldozer Revealed @ [H]

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

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AMD Beyond Barcelona & the new BULLDOZER Revealed - AMD CTOs chime in this morning on what exactly is AMD's plan for the future. In that we see AMD's next generation desktop and server parts revealed - the BULLDOZER. Along with that, M-SPACE, BOBCAT, and FALCON FUSION Family.

While AMD is not releasing hardly any detail about what this processor is about under the hood, from what we have been privy too it is almost a fully new way to think about processing while at the same time keeping a very keen focus on not shutting out legacy applications that exist in the market place. We will see BULLDOZER in enterprise servers as well as on our own desktops. The statements that most needs to be focused on are, “Continued Scaling for single-thread performance,” and “Partitioned for future scalability and modularity.”
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I wonder what this says about Barcelona. Will it fill the gap long enough for Buldozer to come out. 09 is still quite a long ways off.

And what of the r700? Nvidia will soon release the G90 series in November.Ati will have a very hard time catching up if it gets too far behind.
 
So AMD has confirmed what we feared all along: Barcelona is going to be a performance flop and is aimed as a low-cost-low-power-usage stopgap until Bulldozer and Fusion arrive.

That makes my inner geek cry. What happened to these claims of full-speed 1080p H.264 encoding? I was really looking forward to a huge shootout between Barcelona and Penryn on who could make my HD videos convert to AVC faster. :(

On a side note, it sounds like the reverse-hyperthreading rumors may prove to be true in Bulldozer. Funny world, isn't it? :)
 
I don't really like this, AMD is pretty much saying "We're going to be great in a couple of years" but for now you can go f yourself.
 
Hey Kyle, not to be a goose stepping, mirror saluting grammar Nazi, but that first sentence in your quoted headline seems way off.

"...is not releasing hardly any detail" - Implies that a lot of detail is being released.

"privy too" - Supposed to be "privy to"?

The entire sentence is also a fragment.
 
Thanks for the information. Very interesting stuff.
AMD: good luck with that.:eek:
 
mpcamer1220 said:
Intel did something like that with Conroe too, right?
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But they didn't delay so long with Conroe; we got I think less than 12 months after the hype machine cranked up. The hype attitude was also different, and it lived up to its hype. Intel's attitude was "check out our kickass CPU that comes out in a few months!!!" AMD seems to be taking a low-profile approach and trying to detract attention from Barcelona with Fusion/Bulldozer. Not a good sign in this industry. :(
 
I've been saying all along that Barcelona was a stop gap... And guess what I got flamed like a pig on a spit for that one....

I still think Barcelona will take the lead at some point, but prolly not with the launch chips, and more likely after C2Q hits the wall....
 
Thanks for the article Fellas as always.

However, we care more about what is going on now rather than 2 years from now. AMD is so keen to talk about what they are working in the distant future yet you don't hear a peep out of them about products that will reportedly be released in a short time.

Especially products that could potentially sink or swim the entire company.
 
InorganicMatter said:
But they didn't delay so long with Conroe; we got I think less than 12 months after the hype machine cranked up. The hype attitude was also different, and it lived up to its hype. Intel's attitude was "check out our kickass CPU that comes out in a few months!!!" AMD seems to be taking a low-profile approach and trying to detract attention from Barcelona with Fusion/Bulldozer. Not a good sign in this industry. :(
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Intel did exactly the same thing with C2D... They were trying to take attention away from P4... It is no different, and your suggesting that it is, just goes to show.....
 
Good to see something on AMD. Yet, i'm waiting to see what barcelona has to offer before I get excited about AMD again.
 
duby229 said:
Intel did exactly the same thing with C2D... They were trying to take attention away from P4... It is no different, and your suggesting that it is, just goes to show.....
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The difference being Intel's roadmap:

Netburst -> Conroe

versus AMD's roadmap:

K8 -> K10 -> Fusion

Intel was taking attention away from their current sucky architecture. AMD is trying to take attention away from their next-generation architecture that they have all but admitted will be sucky. We will see though, AMD has pulled one out of their hat before.
 
InorganicMatter said:
The difference being Intel's roadmap:

Netburst -> Conroe

versus AMD's roadmap:

K8 -> K10 -> Fusion

Intel was taking attention away from their current sucky architecture. AMD is trying to take attention away from their next-generation architecture that they have all but admitted will be sucky. We will see though, AMD has pulled one out of their hat before.
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Show me where they admit it will suck... Everything I have read claims a 40% clock on clock performance gain. I've never heard anyoine from AMD say it will suck. As a matter of fact everyone that I have ever read from AMD seems to be very enthusiastic about it. We have at least 2 guys on this forum that work for AMD in some capacity and they both seem very excited about it.

So show me where AMD says it will suck... Please... I dare ya.... Triple double dog dare.....
 
duby229 said:
Show me where they admit it will suck... Everything I have read claims a 40% clock on clock performance gain. I've never heard anyoine from AMD say it will suck. As a matter of fact everyone that I have ever read from AMD seems to be very enthusiastic about it. We have at least 2 guys on this forum that work for AMD in some capacity and they both seem very excited about it.

So show me where AMD says it will suck... Please... I dare ya.... Triple double dog dare.....
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I never said AMD said it sucks, I said all but has admitted it. ;) Of course they'll never admit it, they'll scream that it rocks until the Apocalypse. See this:

As we stated above, Bulldozer represents a radical departure from the K8 technology that is the basis for AMD’s upcoming Barcelona cores. K8 and its Opteron and Athlon families have served us well with things looking a bit brighter lately for AMD Barcelona. But make no mistake about it, AMD is going to be looking to low power Barcelona cores that deliver excellent performance per watt to stop the bleeding both in terms of technology leadership and profits lost to Intel through Q209. Barcelona will scale to the high GHz it must have to be competitive but do not expect that in quantity till 2008.
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You have to learn how to read between the lines of an industry analyst under NDA. ;) I shall help translate: Barcelona needs a very high clock speed to compete with Penryn. AMD cannot get the clocks that high on 65nm. So instead of focus on high-performing chips, AMD is producing cheap, low-power CPUs in hopes of taking the budget market and some of the high-density server market. They will make another attempt at the performance market with 45nm and Fusion/Bulldozer, come 2009/2010.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I never said AMD said it sucks, I said all but has admitted it. ;) Of course they'll never admit it, they'll scream that it rocks until the Apocalypse. See this:


You have to learn how to read between the lines of an industry analyst under NDA. ;) I shall help translate: Barcelona needs a very high clock speed to compete with Penryn. AMD cannot get the clocks that high on 65nm. So instead of focus on high-performing chips, AMD is producing cheap, low-power CPUs in hopes of taking the budget market and some of the high-density server market. They will make another attempt at the performance market with 45nm and Fusion/Bulldozer, come 2009/2010.
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I think you left out the last part in your translation, basically saying don't expect Barcelona to be competitive until 2008 when they can get the clock speeds up.
 
TruthInRuin said:
I think you left out the last part in your translation, basically saying don't expect Barcelona to be competitive until 2008 when they can get the clock speeds up.
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Guess I wasn't clear, sorry. That's what I meant when I said they are waiting for 45nm.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I never said AMD said it sucks, I said all but has admitted it. ;) Of course they'll never admit it, they'll scream that it rocks until the Apocalypse. See this:


You have to learn how to read between the lines of an industry analyst under NDA. ;) I shall help translate: Barcelona needs a very high clock speed to compete with Penryn. AMD cannot get the clocks that high on 65nm. So instead of focus on high-performing chips, AMD is producing cheap, low-power CPUs in hopes of taking the budget market and some of the high-density server market. They will make another attempt at the performance market with 45nm and Fusion/Bulldozer, come 2009/2010.
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You just go right on ahead and twist and wiggle. Twist it good. Go ahead... Right on :D

Now that is out of the way, I'm pretty sure that this has been common knowledge for at least 2 months now. Your just understanding this now are you? I remember you personally flamed me when I said Barcelona was a stop gap to hold AMD over after they found out K10 was a failure. It was this realization that got the ATi acquisition rolling. K10 was a massively parallel architecture. It didnt work. ATi already has a massively parallel architecture. AMD started talking to ATi about a possible buy-out, and announced K8L. After a few months AMD made an official announcement about the buy-out and renamed K8L to K10, then a few weeks later renamed K10 to Barcelona. So barcelona is nothing more then a stop-gap measure to hold them over till ATi's architecture is ready. And it really is that simple.

I think most of us have known this for months now.
 
Come on now... A lot of you are talking about the old P4 and the upcoming Barcelona as if they were complete failures, simply because Conroe and Bulldozer are / were primed to be significantly better.

That still didn't take away from the fact that the P4's were still good enough for most gaming purposes.

Enjoy what you have now (or will have very soon, for those waiting on Barcelona). Whatever you buy will do fine for a good while, and by the time you do need something so powerful that a multiple core Barcelona is considered far too feeble, then you will have already gotten your money's worth.
 
InorganicMatter said:
I never said AMD said it sucks, I said all but has admitted it. ;) Of course they'll never admit it, they'll scream that it rocks until the Apocalypse. See this:


You have to learn how to read between the lines of an industry analyst under NDA. ;) I shall help translate: Barcelona needs a very high clock speed to compete with Penryn. AMD cannot get the clocks that high on 65nm. So instead of focus on high-performing chips, AMD is producing cheap, low-power CPUs in hopes of taking the budget market and some of the high-density server market. They will make another attempt at the performance market with 45nm and Fusion/Bulldozer, come 2009/2010.
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I think you need to learn to read beyond your own bias

what that paragraph STATES, is that the new Gen CPU, after barcelona, will be based on a totaly different core, and that AMD is releasing barcelona to compete with intels current/near products, and that they won't release HIGH GHZ CHIPS in VOLUME until 2008.

no where do they say or admit that

"Barcelona will suck"

FTR, the server industry cares about power consumption and heat, thats why it states Barcelona will be providing, competing if not better PPW then intels offering.
 
You know, nevermind. You can't win an argument with a fanboi, so nevermind it all. I'll just unsubscribe this thread and go back to Genmay, where I can converse with normal people.
 
|CR|Constantine said:
Thanks for the article Fellas as always.

However, we care more about what is going on now rather than 2 years from now. AMD is so keen to talk about what they are working in the distant future yet you don't hear a peep out of them about products that will reportedly be released in a short time.

Especially products that could potentially sink or swim the entire company.
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Which is exactly what bothers me. AMD needs Barcelona to succeed, so why don't they show it beating the hell out of Intel's offerings ? Is it really capable of doing it ? I would guess that if they had it, they would have showed it by now.

And now they are already talking about the future, when Barcelona is not even out yet...It definitely doesn't look good. Let's see what happens.
 
Ranari said:
Hey Kyle, not to be a goose stepping, mirror saluting grammar Nazi, but that first sentence in your quoted headline seems way off.

"...is not releasing hardly any detail" - Implies that a lot of detail is being released.

"privy too" - Supposed to be "privy to"?

The entire sentence is also a fragment.
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Damn, no Pulitzer for me. ;)
 
InorganicMatter said:
No bias, just facts. ;)

I'm pretty sure it says Barcelona can't compete with Intel's current, and that AMD is going to have to do a lot of work on brute-forcing clockspeeds to make it compete.

Your logic truly escapes me. :confused: Two posts ago you called me biased towards one camp because I said that, and now you are agreeing with what I said.
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where do yo see that? all it said, is that high clocked Barcelona chips won't be out in volume till 2008, btw, which is for Barc, not Agena.

again no where does it even HINT or IMPLY that barc core cpus won't be able to compete with intels offering, considering AMD still leads servers in more then 4 core configs, with the Aging K8 core.
 
I have to admit I see a lot of folks making up stuff in between the lines here rather than reading between them.
 
I hope this works out as well as AMD says it will, because I'll be in the market for a desktop in 2009. However, I'm holding my applause - K10 was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread too, and it has yet to materialize, let alone dazzle us with its performance.
duby229 said:
You just go right on ahead and twist and wiggle. Twist it good. Go ahead... Right on :D

Now that is out of the way, I'm pretty sure that this has been common knowledge for at least 2 months now. Your just understanding this now are you? I remember you personally flamed me when I said Barcelona was a stop gap to hold AMD over after they found out K10 was a failure. It was this realization that got the ATi acquisition rolling. K10 was a massively parallel architecture. It didnt work. ATi already has a massively parallel architecture. AMD started talking to ATi about a possible buy-out, and announced K8L. After a few months AMD made an official announcement about the buy-out and renamed K8L to K10, then a few weeks later renamed K10 to Barcelona. So barcelona is nothing more then a stop-gap measure to hold them over till ATi's architecture is ready. And it really is that simple.

I think most of us have known this for months now.
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To my memory, you have been saying quite the opposite. You've first smeared the credibility of the people who report that K10 will be anything approacing disappointing. You've then said that these are pre-production samples of K10, and the final product will clearly be much better. You've further claimed - yesterday! - that K10 will scale to 3.8-4 GHz.

When have you said that AMD found out K10 was a failure? When before today have you protrayed K10 as a failure?

Now that Bulldozer has arrived, you're suddenly singing a different tune, and saying K10 was a stopgap all along. Don't pretend that's what you were saying before, because it's not. I could litter this thread with quotes from you that contradict what you just said, but I don't want to derail this thread any further.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
again no where does it even HINT or IMPLY that barc core cpus won't be able to compete with intels offering, considering AMD still leads servers in more then 4 core configs, with the Aging K8 core.
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But it doesn't since you can buy Xeon servers with more than 8 sockets, while Opteron servers are limited to 8 sockets.
 
duby229 said:
Show me where they admit it will suck... Everything I have read claims a 40% clock on clock performance gain. I've never heard anyoine from AMD say it will suck. As a matter of fact everyone that I have ever read from AMD seems to be very enthusiastic about it. We have at least 2 guys on this forum that work for AMD in some capacity and they both seem very excited about it.

So show me where AMD says it will suck... Please... I dare ya.... Triple double dog dare.....
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So are you confident in a 40% lead clock for clock? Or are you confident that it will not be a market leader upon launch?
 
SLee said:
But it doesn't since you can buy Xeon servers with more than 8 sockets, while Opteron servers are limited to 8 sockets.
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Incorrect sir. Core2 based servers cannot currently go above 4 sockets, and until just a short while ago it was 2. Older P4-based Xeons can scale to many more sockets, however. Secondly, K8 can go much higher than 8, just not that high natively. Check out the Horus chipset for more info.
 
visaris said:
Incorrect sir. Core2 based servers cannot currently go above 4 sockets, and until just a short while ago it was 2. Older P4-based Xeons can scale to many more sockets, however. Secondly, K8 can go much higher than 8, just not that high natively. Check out the Horus chipset for more info.
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I never said Core-based Xeon. And the Horus chipset was never released, limiting Opteron to a maximum of 8 sockets for a single system.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
at 8 sockets, the Current Dual core Opterons are pretty damn competitive, so if you throw in QC into the mix =p
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They usually lose to IBM's 8S Xeon servers in the key enterprise benchmarks. And both IBM and Unisys have systems that go up to 16 or 32S. The Core based Xeon MPs aren't released yet though a reported benchmark score on TPC-C suggests it should have no problems setting new records for x86 servers in the major enterprise benchmarks, especially when paired with IBM's new X4 chipset.
 
SLee said:
I never said Core-based Xeon. And the Horus chipset was never released, limiting Opteron to a maximum of 8 sockets for a single system.
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at 8 sockets, the Current Dual core Opterons are pretty damn competitive, so if you throw in QC into the mix =p

point is
Current Gen Intel Core is limited by fsb in >4 cores right? and AMD is still a viable option in that arena with its LAST gen cpu, so in the next gen Barcelona, should still out perform the intel soultion and now by a bit more then then k8
 
visaris said:
http://news.com.com/IBM+plans+new+high-end+Xeon+server/2100-1010_3-6122413.html
Hmm. This site claims X4 will be limited to 16 sockets. Still, that is larger than Opteron. I am surprised to hear Horus never went anywhere though. I saw some early performance graphs, and it was looking pretty good. Any idea what went wrong?
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Not sure, perhaps a lack of demand. The rise of the dual-core processors made the 4S system a very capable system at much better pricing, energy use and space and perhaps made the 8S market irrelevant to all but a few vendors. And then Phil Hester leaving Newisys to join AMD probably didn't help either.
 
Sounds like AMD went to a construction yard to pick codenames for their processors. Bulldozer, Bobcat....lol.
 
When you make this many slides for something 2 years off (reality: 4 years off) it kind of wreaks of "please don't sell your stock!".
 
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