Reason 8800GT looks so good because no 9800GTX out yet

Z

Zorachus

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
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Everyone is freaking out what a great super deal the new 8800GT is, oh my god the best geek card ever made, it is cool, fast, and cheap :rolleyes:


One reason for that = no 9800GTX out yet. If the 9800GTX was here on sale for $500.00 or so, and twice the performance of the 8800GTX, the 8800GT wouldn't look as good as it does today because it is being compared to the $500 8800GTX.

Otherwise the 8800GT would look average, in SLI it would just maybe be a little above half performance of the 9800GTX most likely. Maybe that is why nVidia has not released a 9800 series yet ??

Also my point is the 9800GTX was supposed to be here around now, one year after the 8800GTX release
 
Sheer genius.

If the new high end card was out then a midrange part from the last generation wouldn't look very good. Great job, Sherlock.
 
You are totally and completely wrong.
The shear performance of this card with Crysis, is the reason it is selling.

It will run ANYTHING you throw at it. It sells itself.
 
so you re saying quad cores are hot because quintuple cores aren t out yet ? sheer genius !
 
rhagz said:
Sheer genius.

If the new high end card was out then a midrange part from the last generation wouldn't look very good. Great job, Sherlock.
Click to expand...

"last generation" you calling a card that was released THIS WEEK last generation?

"mid range" would be $150 or so, certainly not more than $200...
 
I disagree, it look so good because there's nothing better for the money. Being 15% away from something that costs twice as much is just a bonus.
 
gibber said:
"last generation" you calling a card that was released THIS WEEK last generation?

"mid range" would be $150 or so, certainly not more than $200...
Click to expand...

Why are you such an idiot?

If the 9-series cards were out THERE WOULDN'T BE A NEW 8800 in the first place.
 
Man you guys :rolleyes: I am saying everyone stop jizzing all over their new 8800GT like it is a half priced 8800GTX, well the 8800GTX is one freaking year old of course the GT will be close to the speed, but we should have a 9800GTX out now, and then the 8800GT looks like less of a deal compared to a 9800GTX, and then the 8800GT should be priced like $125 then that would be a good deal
 
What you are really saying is you hate Nvidia and can't stand to see them get all the attention while your beloved ATI is sitting in the corner where he belongs for being so bad.
 
So, because something better hasn't come out, an 8800GT is not as good... as something that doesn't exist.

I can agree with that. Octa-cores don't exist yet, so quad cores are worse compared to them, because they are only better than dual cores.
 
Fuck this thread, I shouldn't have started it :D Just trying to make some kind of point against all the hype the 8800GT is getting, when I am really pissed they even released this 8900GT and not the 9800GTX I really want to upgrade
 
Well when i think about it the 9800GTX is crap compared to the 10800GTRX which i heard was due for late 2008/Early 09
 
Zorachus said:
Man you guys :rolleyes: I am saying everyone stop jizzing all over their new 8800GT like it is a half priced 8800GTX, well the 8800GTX is one freaking year old of course the GT will be close to the speed, but we should have a 9800GTX out now, and then the 8800GT looks like less of a deal compared to a 9800GTX, and then the 8800GT should be priced like $125 then that would be a good deal
Click to expand...

Not really. The 7950GT cost $180 and its still a great card that does the job well.
 
/start old school reference

rhagz said:
What you are really saying is you hate Nvidia and can't stand to see them get all the attention while your beloved ATI is sitting in the corner where he belongs for being so bad.
Click to expand...

*rhagz smacks Zarachus with a wet trout*

/end old school reference

;)
 
The 8800GT is arguably one of the best bang/buck cards ever released, alongside the likes of the 9700pro. THAT is why people are excited, even if this "9800GTX" you so much create fantasies about by starting a million other threads/posts like this were out already, it still is the best value for the money, and a solid "mid-range" card in that case.

TROLL THREAD RATINGS:

TOPIC TITLE: 2/10, very unprovocative, doesn't grab attention well and has little hyperbole.

SPELLING/GRAMMAR: 7/10, it is written well enough to be somewhat discrete about its trolling.

LENGTH: 4/10, Succint and to the point, the exact opposite of any serious post regarding this sort of topic.

RANDOM RANTING/RAVING: 9/10, you make lots of unfounded statements with plenty of angst once you actually get going.

FOLLOW-UP REPLIES FOR FUEL TO THE FIRE: 1/10, you insult your clientelle with juvenile comments and little else to try to keep the posting frenzy aloft.

REVIEWER'S TILT: 3/10, the topic is far too absurd to be taken seriously even by the most gullible of posters.


TOTAL SCORE: 4.5/10, a decent beginner's effort, but not worth the read.




Zorachus said:
Fuck this thread, I shouldn't have started it :D Just trying to make some kind of point against all the hype the 8800GT is getting, when I am really pissed they even released this 8900GT and not the 9800GTX I really want to upgrade
Click to expand...

Zorachus said:
Man you guys :rolleyes: I am saying everyone stop jizzing all over their new 8800GT like it is a half priced 8800GTX, well the 8800GTX is one freaking year old of course the GT will be close to the speed, but we should have a 9800GTX out now, and then the 8800GT looks like less of a deal compared to a 9800GTX, and then the 8800GT should be priced like $125 then that would be a good deal
Click to expand...

Zorachus said:
Everyone is freaking out what a great super deal the new 8800GT is, oh my god the best geek card ever made, it is cool, fast, and cheap :rolleyes:


One reason for that = no 9800GTX out yet. If the 9800GTX was here on sale for $500.00 or so, and twice the performance of the 8800GTX, the 8800GT wouldn't look as good as it does today because it is being compared to the $500 8800GTX.

Otherwise the 8800GT would look average, in SLI it would just maybe be a little above half performance of the 9800GTX most likely. Maybe that is why nVidia has not released a 9800 series yet ??

Also my point is the 9800GTX was supposed to be here around now, one year after the 8800GTX release
Click to expand...
 
Zorachus said:
Man you guys :rolleyes: I am saying everyone stop jizzing all over their new 8800GT like it is a half priced 8800GTX, well the 8800GTX is one freaking year old of course the GT will be close to the speed, but we should have a 9800GTX out now, and then the 8800GT looks like less of a deal compared to a 9800GTX, and then the 8800GT should be priced like $125 then that would be a good deal
Click to expand...

You really dont understand anything...at all.
 
well he does have a point. a mid range card coming out a year later SHOULD performs like or close to 1 year old high end part. this is how its always been. except nvidia it seems has in fact deviated from its past release cycle and with no other high end part coming out this year the only thing that matters is whats out right now, which is a GTX for 500 or a GT for 250, and the GT has 90% of the GTX's performance so its kinda a no brainer.
 
nissanztt90 said:
You really dont understand anything...at all.
Click to expand...

The man has a point, I just don't think it's illustrated well. What I believe he is saying, which I agree with, is the fact that people appear to be flocking to a product engineered with superior technology, but intentionally nerf'd to not exceed the past technology's watermark. The G92 platform the 8800GT is based off of could easily power a card considerably faster than the GTX, but nvidia does not dare release the card at it's maximum potential because theres no reason to beat the top dog (which is the GTX). And there's certainly reason for animosity in that regard they are getting more of your money and you're completely okay with them not giving you the best product they can. If ATi's XT3000 (that's their next revision due out in 2 weeks, right?) beats the GTX, you will instantly see the true G92 product that the 8800GT should have been - Then you'll see his point.
 
Zorachus said:
Everyone is freaking out what a great super deal the new 8800GT is, oh my god the best geek card ever made, it is cool, fast, and cheap :rolleyes:


One reason for that = no 9800GTX out yet. If the 9800GTX was here on sale for $500.00 or so, and twice the performance of the 8800GTX, the 8800GT wouldn't look as good as it does today because it is being compared to the $500 8800GTX.

Otherwise the 8800GT would look average, in SLI it would just maybe be a little above half performance of the 9800GTX most likely. Maybe that is why nVidia has not released a 9800 series yet ??

Also my point is the 9800GTX was supposed to be here around now, one year after the 8800GTX release
Click to expand...

thanks for pointing that out sherlock! Yes, some people are stupid, but not the vast majority (i hope).

and no i was not calling you stupid if you misconstrued what i was saying
 
Let's say nVidia does release the 9800GTX just after Crysis is released in a few weeks, and the 9800GTX is 2x faster than 8800GTX, that would make it 2.5 times faster than a 8800GT or so. But ya just paid $275 for the 8800GT but for only twice that price you would get a 9800GTX for close to $550 but will give ya like 200% the increase in games, compared to that the 8800GT does not seem the deal it is
 
cerebrex said:
The man has a point, I just don't think it's illustrated well. What I believe he is saying, which I agree with, is the fact that people appear to be flocking to a product engineered with superior technology, but intentionally nerf'd to not exceed the past technology's watermark. The G92 platform the 8800GT is based off of could easily power a card considerably faster than the GTX, but nvidia does not dare release a card at it's maximum potential because theres no reason to beat the top dog (which is the GTX).
Click to expand...

This isn't a new practice. The vanilla 6800s that came out way after the Ultras were just Ultras with disabled pipelines. You could actually enable them and clock it to Ultra speeds and get a cheap Ultra.

This happens every generation. You don't want to make your flagship obsolete and you don't want to just tweak old tech and slightly outperform for less money. You save that moment for a whole new generation.
 
Zorachus said:
Let's say nVidia does release the 9800GTX just after Crysis is released in a few weeks, and the 9800GTX is 2x faster than 8800GTX, that would make it 2.5 times faster than a 8800GT or so. But ya just paid $275 for the 8800GT but for only twice that price you would get a 9800GTX for close to $550 but will give ya like 200% the increase in games, compared to that the 8800GT does not seem the deal it is
Click to expand...



where do you get your math from? jw
 
rhagz said:
This isn't a new practice. The vanilla 6800s that came out way after the Ultras were just Ultras with disabled pipelines. You could actually enable them and clock it to Ultra speeds and get a cheap Ultra.

This happens every generation. You don't want to make your flagship obsolete and you don't want to just tweak old tech and slightly outperform for less money. You save that moment for a whole new generation.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I completely understand the marketing standpoint for why it's done - it's business. I'd be arguing that exact point against myself if I were you. The reason I made this evident is because the 8800GT owners are attacking someone who is bringing this to light - don't get pissed off when you see a new 9800GTS come out and smoke your 8800GT. Sure, it'll be more expensive, but it's going to be damn near the same card. The reason you have an 8800GT and not a 9800GT is because ATi has not brought anything competitive to the table. The 8800GT is just there as a placeholder to test their next architecture, and to sop up the little bit left of the market that hasn't already bought a G80 card. There is good in it - you get close to the same performance for a damn good price, BUT - don't be fooled into what you're really purchasing - the nerfed 9800.
 
cerebrex said:
Sure, it'll be more expensive, but it's going to be damn near the same card.
Click to expand...

The true 9800GTS will be no closer to the 8800GT than the 8800GTS was to the 7800GT.

It will be a whole new generation. They may come out with a new 8800GTS based on the 8800GT but it's going to be the same generation, not a leap forward that comes with that first number increasing by 1.
 
rhagz said:
The true 9800GTS will be no closer to the 8800GT than the 8800GTS was to the 7800GT.

It will be a whole new generation. They may come out with a new 8800GTS based on the 8800GT but it's going to be the same generation, not a leap forward that comes with that first number increasing by 1.
Click to expand...

I hope you're aware the 8800GT is the next architecture - it's 65nm technology with half it's pipeline turned off.
 
cerebrex said:
I hope you're aware the 8800GT is the next architecture - it's 65nm technology with half it's pipeline turned off.
Click to expand...

A die shrink is not a new archetecture. And half it's pipleine turned off? I seriously doubt there is 256 stream processors in there with 144 of them disabled.
 
GoldenTiger said:
The 8800GT is arguably one of the best bang/buck cards ever released, alongside the likes of the 9700pro. THAT is why people are excited, even if this "9800GTX" you so much create fantasies about by starting a million other threads/posts like this were out already, it still is the best value for the money, and a solid "mid-range" card in that case.
Click to expand...

Agreed, after seeing the benches its clear the 8800GT is an awesome bang for the buck card. However the prices of the GTS and GTX are now bound to drop soon so well have to see if this holds true for very long. Personally im holding out for a $150 GTS320 or $200 640 but it may never happen.

Either way its cheap but best bang/buck not a chance. the X1950pro is better bang/buck just because the 8800GT faster its not more performance per $$. There is no arguably about it you can figure it out through simple math you dont even need to guess. Bench both cards add up all FPS/Scores and devide it by the price and you have performance per dollar.
 
The OP has a point as someone else has pointed out. The 8800 series has been excellent line, and AMD has not been able to compete. Maybe it is just that good.

But as this point in the 8800 life cycle, yes we should be getting last years top of the line performance for half the price or less, we've all become used that schedule. And this is where I think the OP's point is missed, where's the new high-end part?

The high-end becomes the mid-range to be replaced by a new high-end part. Half of the puzzle is missing.

So yes, the 8800GT is a great card, I love my six-month old Ultra, but where's the beef? (high-end part)
 
cerebrex said:
The man has a point, I just don't think it's illustrated well. What I believe he is saying, which I agree with, is the fact that people appear to be flocking to a product engineered with superior technology, but intentionally nerf'd to not exceed the past technology's watermark. The G92 platform the 8800GT is based off of could easily power a card considerably faster than the GTX, but nvidia does not dare release the card at it's maximum potential because theres no reason to beat the top dog (which is the GTX). And there's certainly reason for animosity in that regard they are getting more of your money and you're completely okay with them not giving you the best product they can. If ATi's XT3000 (that's their next revision due out in 2 weeks, right?) beats the GTX, you will instantly see the true G92 product that the 8800GT should have been - Then you'll see his point.
Click to expand...

I do understand his point and infact i kind of agree with him, i was more referring to the 8800GT should be 125 dollars remark, although now that i see the kind of math hes doing...maybe i should cut him some slack.
 
rhagz said:
This isn't a new practice. The vanilla 6800s that came out way after the Ultras were just Ultras with disabled pipelines. You could actually enable them and clock it to Ultra speeds and get a cheap Ultra.

This happens every generation. You don't want to make your flagship obsolete and you don't want to just tweak old tech and slightly outperform for less money. You save that moment for a whole new generation.
Click to expand...

dont forget though the "pipelines" as you knew them in the 6800 cards no longer exist in the 8800 cards. its a completely different architecture. there is just no possible way to turn a 96 shader GTS into a 128 shader GTX...unless your nvidia. :)
 
LawGiver said:
dont forget though the "pipelines" as you knew them in the 6800 cards no longer exist in the 8800 cards. its a completely different architecture. there is just no possible way to turn a 96 shader GTS into a 128 shader GTX...unless your nvidia. :)
Click to expand...

It's the same in priniciple, they just physically disconnect them with a laser instead of disabling them at the BIOS/driver level.

CPUs used to be the same way. They would all come with unlocked multipliers, then people got smart and companies made enthusiast motherboards that let them get top dollar performence on budget chips.

They stopped that quick.. gosh, I remember the original pencil mods.
 
It looks good for the money, I agree. This is basically last year's enthusiast performance at a mid market price point. But I want more of an upgrade. An 8800GT is a lot more powerful than my X1900XT, but it still can't run Crysis on very high at my native resolution and get smooth 45-60fps. So I'm waiting for the next full blown generation of GPUs before upgrading.
 
GoldenTiger said:
The 8800GT is arguably one of the best bang/buck cards ever released, alongside the likes of the 9700pro. THAT is why people are excited, even if this "9800GTX" you so much create fantasies about by starting a million other threads/posts like this were out already, it still is the best value for the money, and a solid "mid-range" card in that case.

TROLL THREAD RATINGS:

TOPIC TITLE: 2/10, very unprovocative, doesn't grab attention well and has little hyperbole.

SPELLING/GRAMMAR: 7/10, it is written well enough to be somewhat discrete about its trolling.

LENGTH: 4/10, Succint and to the point, the exact opposite of any serious post regarding this sort of topic.

RANDOM RANTING/RAVING: 9/10, you make lots of unfounded statements with plenty of angst once you actually get going.

FOLLOW-UP REPLIES FOR FUEL TO THE FIRE: 1/10, you insult your clientelle with juvenile comments and little else to try to keep the posting frenzy aloft.

REVIEWER'S TILT: 3/10, the topic is far too absurd to be taken seriously even by the most gullible of posters.


TOTAL SCORE: 4.5/10, a decent beginner's effort, but not worth the read.
Click to expand...


:D
best post ever.
 
Stereophile said:
It looks good for the money, I agree. This is basically last year's enthusiast performance at a mid market price point. But I want more of an upgrade. An 8800GT is a lot more powerful than my X1900XT, but it still can't run Crysis on very high at my native resolution and get smooth 45-60fps. So I'm waiting for the next full blown generation of GPUs before upgrading.
Click to expand...
Well thats because the game hasnt actually come out yet. And your cpu isnt very powerful, I think crysis use a lot of cpu power.
 
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