this is my build plan, is it ok?

firas · Nov 15, 2007

I posted this topic here but Anchen advised me to post it here

I finally decided to gather a decent PC and get rid of the 128mb graphic chip life
I’m not really into the hardware stuff and believe me when I say that here in the middle east I consider my knowledge better than all the local suppliers here
Yesterday I circled a whole area of computer shops just to ask them about the GeForce 8800GT and not just that they don’t have it, they didn’t even heard about it
I entered a shop and start asking a guy and it was like love from the first look, we instantly knew that we know
After a long discussion and 2 cigarettes I found the following:

processor
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (4x 2.4GHz/8MB L2 Cache) = what equals 307USD
My question:
I didn’t go for Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6700 (4x 2.66GHz/8MB L2 Cache) cuz it’s much more expensive (I think it would be 280USD more than the 6600)
And didn’t go for Intel Core 2 Extreme Quad-Core Processor cuz I don’t have a money printer (yet)!
And didn’t go for Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6850 (2x 3.0GHz/4MB L2 Cache) cuz I liked the sound of the word “Quad” (though it costs about the same price like the one I chose)
My question:
I’m I right? I’m not really into overclocking and I noticed in the 6600 is mentioned a lot in the overclocking challenges so I thought that maybe it’s an overclocker processor
I have a good budget but not an open one, so does the 6700 deserve the extra price since the only deference I noticed is the + 0.200GHz
Now to the usual middle eastern complex, generally when companies (for example Toshiba) manufacture a Laptop they make 2 types from the same model, one for the middle east and the other for the rest of the world
Not exactly but it happens a lot of times, it happened to me when I bought my Sony DVD Player and discovered after that that the model I bought is exclusive for middle east region.
So is there more than a model from Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (4x 2.4GHz/8MB L2 Cache)?
Is there some fully optioned/higher quality version and lower end/quality one?

I noticed here that there might be:
and what the hell is this
is it an upgrade or what?

MotherBoard
For the mobo I went for the eVGA NForce 680i SLI = what equals 334USD
the question:
Is this the right choice? I don’t know a lot about these new motherboards but I just like the sound of the word EVGAAA!
And of course.. is there more than a version from this model? Should I look for some specific option in it?
Should I go for something like:
Asus P5N32-E SLI nForce® 680i SLI (about 90USD more)
Asus Striker Extreme nForce® 680i SLI (about 180USD more)
Would they give me better performance or cooling or anything that deserves the money difference?

Graphic Card
For the graphic card he had EVGA GeForce 8800GTS = what equals 388USD
And he told me that he can order the 8800GT for me and that it would cost me around 428USD (I think he said its 512 DDR3 XFX model)
question:
Shouldn’t the GT be cheaper than the GTS? Should I tell him to order some specific version from the GT specially that it’s all about the Graphic card for me, at least should I be far from some GT models cuz I heard about some heating problems with it, and I also noticed that there is a big deference between the GT models (I mean one could be a lot better that other one)

The funny thing is when I told him that I want a normal 400W power supply, he was disappointed from me and told me that he thought that I’m better than this then he explained the reason that you all know, so I think I’ll go for some 800W one.

Final Q, I have a PC and I may be able to wait a little bit if the waiting deserves, so should I wait another 2 or 3 months cuz I heard (yes I hear a lot) that there will be some major changes at the beginning of 2008 Specially than 45 nm Processors from Intel which I have no idea about

Ya I remembered, he told me something about installing 2 Graphic cards on the mother board and stuff like that, could the eVGA mother board handle 2 GT’s? How can you tell if a mother board does? Or a graphic card can? and is this to the nvidia based motherboards that anchen mentioned?

Sorry for the long topic and thnx.

EDIT:
Do you recomened Kingiston or Crosair for the RAM?
Is it right that the Intel 6600 is better for graphic progrmaz not for gamz and the E6750 or E6850 is better unless the 6600 was OC'ed
Is there any chance that the 8800GTS 640MB could be better than the 8800GT (maybe only if the monitor is 20 inch or more)
Is it true that the ATI 3870 will be better than the 8800GT (both price and performance)

I saw some cheap prices for the 8800GT here
is it true that it's better to get the cheapest one and OC it by myself cuz the other cards is more expensive cuz they are OC'ed

engiNURD · Nov 15, 2007

Someone got the cliff's notes to that?

/me ADHD... I'll read it all later if and when I have time, lol. Or maybe someone will come along and save me some typing...

oooh, a small list of questions at the bottom... maybe I can answer those...

firas said:
EDIT:
Do you recomened Kingiston or Crosair for the RAM?
Is it right that the Intel 6600 is better for graphic progrmaz not for gamz and the E6750 or E6850 is better unless the 6600 was OC'ed
Is there any chance that the 8800GTS 640MB could be better than the 8800GT (maybe only if the monitor is 20 inch or more)
Is it true that the ATI 3870 will be better than the 8800GT (both price and performance)

Whichever is cheaper. They both make good quality products.
No, the Q6600 @ 2.4Ghz is just fine for games, too.
Yes, a very good chance.
No, just price will be lower, IIRC.

Dangman · Nov 16, 2007

Yikes, I can see why Enginurd asked for Cliff Notes.

Anyway to answer to your questions:

CPU:
Yes you made a good choice. And no there isn't a region specific Q6600 anywhere. However there are different steppings of the Q6600, the B3 and G0. The B3 was the first Q6600 stepping out but it ran pretty hot and was limited in OCing capability. The G0 stepping runs cooler and can OC higher than the B3 stepping.
If you're in the U.S, you can get the G0 stepping here:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping CPU - $274

AS for your links, what are you talking about? You posted the same link twice.

Mobo:
Which specific eVGA 680i board did you get? There's like 4 or 5 different modles in that particular line.

And frankly, unless you plan on SLI, which is only needed if you're gaming at a resolution beyond 1920x1200, get a P35 based mobo instead. The P35 chipset runs cooler, a bit more stable and can OC higher.

Graphics Card:
Yes, the 8800GT should be cheaper than the GTS 640MB. However, due to the laws of supply and demand, the prices and availability of the 8800GT skyrocketed and plummeted respectively. Also, any GT model will do. Just find the cheapest one. Though also find out how much the GTX will cost for you. If it's pretty close to the 8800GT, then get the 8800GTX instead.

PSU:
Remember that wattage doesn't mean as much these days. What matters most is where those watts are being delivered. For current rigs, it's all about how much amps are on the +12V rail since most PC parts draw their power from there. You determine the amperage on the +12V rails by first finding out what's the total combined wattage set aside for the +12V rails alone. For a mid-range gaming rig, try to get a PSU with around 30A to 40A on the +12V rails. Here's a link that help you learn more about PSUs:
http://www.jonnyguru.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

Can you please tell us what PSUs are avaliable to your? By now I'm assuming you're in the Middle East due to the references to the Middle East. If you don't know what's avaliable, try to get a PSU made by Corsair, Seasonic, Enhance, Silverstone, PC Power and Cooling or part of the Antec EarthWatts series.

Final Q:
Yes the new Penryn 45nm CPUs are coming out in Q2 2008. Basically they're faster and cooler running Core 2 Duos. I think the new Penryn CPUs offer about 10% to 15% more performance than current C2Ds. Also they have enormous overclocking potential.

As for whether a mobo can handle two video cards, if it has SLI anywhere in the name, then it can support two Nvidia video cards since SLI is an Nvidia tech. You may hear about Crossfire but Crossfire isn't worth it IMO.

And if you're cash strapped then yes it is better to get the cheaper card and OC it yourself. The more expensive models are usually heavily OC'd

Now a few questions that you can answer for us (Yes I am reiterating a few):
- Where are you? US? Canada? Egypt? etc
- Where are you getting your parts from?

firas · Nov 17, 2007

Sorry for the long topic but I thought it would be better if I explained as much as I can

Whichever is cheaper. They both make good quality products.

But should I look for some specific thing in it? I noticed that most of them comes with 800 speed, should I look for something faster than 800? or some other thing?

No, the Q6600 @ 2.4Ghz is just fine for games, too.

If you say so, anyway I don’t know how the dual could be better than the Quad in anything

Yes, a very good chance

WHAT!?! Maybe you mean only if the monitor was 20 inch or bigger, don’t tell me that it can beat it in some other way than that!
This is what makes me think like that:

more here

oooooooooooooooooooooooops, NOW I NOTICED THAT THE CARD IN THE COMPARISON IS GTS 320MB not the 640MB one, this will phukin change everything, it’s like I’ve been living in a lie for the past period.
I’ll ask later cuz I need to update my stupid information first

No, just price will be lower, IIRC.

It doesn’t matter now since I was thinking that GT is much stronger than the GTS640MB

The G0 stepping runs cooler and can OC higher than the B3 stepping

Actually I heard some members talking about this G0 thing and didn’t know what they mean, thnx for mentioning it, I’ll make sure to get a G0 if I want to buy the 6600

AS for your links, what are you talking about? You posted the same link twice.

How did that happen!, never mind, the Item in the link had a name like “Intel Q6600 upgrade” so I thought it’s some kind of a thing that you attach to the Q6600 to make it better, but maybe they just mint the G0 thing

Which specific eVGA 680i board did you get? There's like 4 or 5 different modles in that particular line.

Ahhh, could it be more complicated!! I’ll go this evening and ask the guy in the computer shop about the model, but when I searched now I noticed that the different models from the MOBO is actually the same one but the difference is in the warranty and stuff like that, anyway I’ll ask the guy

And frankly, unless you plan on SLI, which is only needed if you're gaming at a resolution beyond 1920x1200, get a P35 based mobo instead. The P35 chipset runs cooler, a bit more stable and can OC higher.

And I thought that I got the best thing!
Correct me if I was wrong…
MOBO’s are 2 types:
1-Intel based mother board which will have the word P35 somewhere in its name
2-Nvidia based MOBO’s which will have the word SLI

The advantage of the SLI MOBO’s is that we can attach 2 graphic cards to it in the future (both cards should be from the same type)
The advantages of the p35 chipset is that it runs cooler, a bit more stable and can OC higher
First I don’t know how the p35 is cooler and faster though the eVGA SLI 680i I mentioned is very expensive and should be good MOBO

I didn’t really understand this

which is only needed if you're gaming at a resolution beyond 1920x1200

Are you referring to the SLI capability of accepting 2 cards or is there something else?

Another not related question, is it true that we can attach 2 GTX Ultra to the same MOBO? If yes then why when some member in some forum attached a screenshot of his screen (with some framrate program running) while playing Crysis with top graphic settings and very high frame rate everybody started wondering how did he do it!? Isn’t it true that he might have 2 ULTRA’s running?

So if I decided that I don’t want to use 2 Graphic cards in the mobo, what should I look for in a mobo?
all have Dual Channel Supported
all have FSB: 1333/1066MHz FSB
about all have Maximum Memory Supported: 8GB
is those GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 2, ultra cooling MOBO’s ok? Damn this is just too complicated for me!

any GT model will do. Just find the cheapest one

I don’t know why People keep saying that! Isn’t it true that every card have different cooling (fan)

Though also find out how much the GTX will cost for you. If it's pretty close to the 8800GT, then get the 8800GTX instead

I guess you said that cuz you noticed that the GT price I mentioned is over the limit, well trust me the GTX is also over the limit, anyway let me just try to find which is really stronger the GTS640 or the GT

PSU

Thnx for the PSU explanation and link, I thought that the PSU brand is not important and that it’s all about watts

Yes the new Penryn 45nm CPUs are coming out in Q2 2008. Basically they're faster and cooler running Core 2 Duos. I think the new Penryn CPUs offer about 10% to 15% more performance than current C2Ds. Also they have enormous overclocking potential.

Are you talking about something like that Intel QX 9650

cuz it’s just too expensive, or you mean that there will be some high-end 45nm processors and some lower-end one’s
EDIT:
are those the lower-end 45nm

You may hear about Crossfire but Crossfire isn't worth it IMO.

Isn’t crossfire the same as SLI but crossfire is for ATI?

And if you're cash strapped then yes it is better to get the cheaper card and OC it yourself. The more expensive models are usually heavily OC'd

Will the heavy OC affect the cards life time?

I’m in Saudi Arabia (I’m not a Saudi but working in a consultant joint company in Saudi) and believe me…buying a good computer here is difficult as hell, to put you in the picture quickly… I know about computer hardware more than any guy in a computer shop here! Damn most of them didn’t even here about quad core or 8800GT
After I finally decide what I want and if I found the prices too unreasonable I’ll just tell one of my friends at work to bring some parts for me when he goes for a leave (we have employees from all over the world, America, Australia, France, England, ..Etc)

EDIT:
Alienware is bringing 15.4 and 17" notebooks with 8800M GTX by next month
Here is the leaked info on google cache,they took them down quickly..

Another EDIT:
this is what I call a ProseesOOrrrrrrr 12mb cach

Dangman · Nov 17, 2007

WHAT!?! Maybe you mean only if the monitor was 20 inch or bigger, dont tell me that it can beat it in some other way than that!

I think enginurd meant the that new 8800GTS being release later this year will beat 8800GT. So calm down. you're right, current GTS cards are pretty slow compared to current GT cards. However, the new revisions of the 8800GTS should be faster than the GT.

Correct me if I was wrong
MOBOs are 2 types:
1-Intel based mother board which will have the word P35 somewhere in its name
2-Nvidia based MOBOs which will have the word SLI

The advantage of the SLI MOBOs is that we can attach 2 graphic cards to it in the future (both cards should be from the same type)
The advantages of the p35 chipset is that it runs cooler, a bit more stable and can OC higher
First I dont know how the p35 is cooler and faster though the eVGA SLI 680i I mentioned is very expensive and should be good MOBO

There are actually more than two types of mobos out there. Some are based on VIA chipsets and ATI chipsets. Also, not all Nvidia based mobos have SLI. But to keep things simple for you: the most current and latest mobos and the ones you should be looking at are based on the following chipsets: P35, 650i, and 680i. You may hear things about the X38 and X48 chipsets but mobos based on those chipsets are not worth the money.

Also remember that the more expensive an item is does NOT automatically make it better than other items. Also the reason why the P35 chipset runs cooler and can OC higher than the 680i is because it's a better designed chipset at least in therms of heat output. So yes cheaper P35 based mobos do run cooler than some 680i mobos.

I didnt really understand this

which is only needed if you're gaming at a resolution beyond 1920x1200

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the SLI capability of accepting 2 cards or is there something else?

Basically, you only need SLI if A) there is no SINGLE card that offers the performance you want and B) if you're playing at a resolution of 1920x1200 and more because thats when SLI will actually make a big difference. Anything below that resolution and SLI is a bit of waste.

Another not related question, is it true that we can attach 2 GTX Ultra to the same MOBO? If yes then why when some member in some forum attached a screenshot of his screen (with some framrate program running) while playing Crysis with top graphic settings and very high frame rate everybody started wondering how did he do it!? Isnt it true that he might have 2 ULTRAs running?

Yes, you cna use two of any Nvidia card as long as they're of the same model on an mobo with SLI capability. So yes you can use two 8800Ultras in SLI. BTW there is no such thing as GTX Ultra. It's simply called the 8800Ultra.

As for the questioning of a poster's frame rates and screen shots, I'm betting that's referring to Crysis. Crysis is a new game that absolutely punishes current video cards right now. And by punishment, I mean current video cards, even two 8800Ultra in SLI, barely have enough power to play Crysis at max settings at max resolutions. Hence why people were asking how that person got that much FPS.

So if I decided that I dont want to use 2 Graphic cards in the mobo, what should I look for in a mobo?

Well look for any features that you may want. Here's a simple checklist:
- Do you need two IDE ports?
- Do you need more than 4 SATA ports?
- Do you need RAID support?
- Do you need heavy overclocking stability?
- Do you need parallel or legacy ports?
- Do you dual LANS or onboard NICs?
- Do you need Firewire?

As for GIGABYTE Ultra Durable 2, ultra cooling MOBO isn't a mobo. It's a feature of Gigabyte mobos. And yes mobos that feature are usually good mobos.

I dont know why People keep saying that! Isnt it true that every card have different cooling (fan)

No, not really. Some manufacturers just slap a new picture on the stock reference oooler. The ones that do use a different coolers aren't always that better than the stock cooler. The different coolers are sometimes louder and sometimes better than the stock cooler. But those costs more and the better cooling is only by a few degrees, maybe 10C at max in my experience. But it's really of no importance. It's usually best to just a third-party cooler if you want to keep a video card pretty cool.

So yes. just pick the cheapest GT you can find. The stock reference coolers were designed for the GT so they will keep the card within normal temps. As for any clock speed difference, you can OC the card to the speeds of factory OC'd cards.

Thnx for the PSU explanation and link, I thought that the PSU brand is not important and that its all about watts

Unfortunately thats a common mindset/line of thought of many people, even among some so-called PC enthusiasts and gamers.

Are you talking about something like that Intel QX 9650

cuz its just too expensive, or you mean that there will be some high-end 45nm processors and some lower-end ones
EDIT:
are those the lower-end 45nm

Yes the CPUs mentioned in that link are the low end 45nm and the ones I was talking about.

Isnt crossfire the same as SLI but crossfire is for ATI?

In basic definition, which is using two video cards to form one video card, yes. In actual performance and implantation, no. Crossfire isn't as mature, stable, or offer a good performance as SLI despite the fact that Crossfire theoretically should be faster. Also, some games barely support SLI, let alone Crossfire which hasn't reached as widespread use as SLI setups.

Though I could be proven wrong if the new ATI cards in a Crossfire setup are shown to offer pretty good performance.

Will the heavy OC affect the cards life time?

No if you don't go for a crazy OC, keep the card cool, and make sure that the OC is stable.

buying a good computer here is difficult as hell, to put you in the picture quickly I know about computer hardware more than any guy in a computer shop here!

Actually that's the same here in many parts/stores of the U.S. I know more about PCs than many sales reps at my local Best Buy or Frys, local computer stores. I remember one guy who worked at Frys said that a Sempron could beat a Core 2 Duo. And then there was a Best Buy sales rep who said that 7600GT was faster than an x1950GT because of the higher model numbers. Come on!

Alienware is bringing 15.4 and 17" notebooks with 8800M GTX by next month
Here is the leaked info on google cache,they took them down quickly..

And? Here's my take on gaming laptops: they're not worth it. Well at least in many cases anyway. They're worth it if you travel or move around a lot where space for a desktop isn't always a guarantee and you really need to play a game during your travels/movings. Or if you live in a small dorm room or living quarters where even a Small Form Factor PC like a Shuttle takes too much space. Basically they're worth it if you're mobile, in tight spaces and you need to play games whenever you get a chance. But for most cases, a gaming laptop isn't worth it. But for the price of one expensive gaming laptop (around 1800+), you can build a desktop that outperforms that laptop by a large margin with an LCD monitor and still have enough for a cheap laptop for mobile computing.

And don't worry about the long posts. It shows that you're making an effort to learn more and that you care about PCs.

firas · Nov 17, 2007

Thnx A LOT for the great answers, I’ll comment on them later (after I understand them all)
But initially I guess I’ll delay the whole thing cuz of 2 reasons:
1-

Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.67ghz 1333fsb 12 l2cache LGA775 $316

This seems to be a lot better than the:
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (4x 2.4GHz/8MB L2 Cache) = what equals 307USD
2-

even two 8800Ultra in SLI, barely have enough power to play Crysis at max settings at max resolutions

OMG, I thought the GT would be enough, my minimum target now is the Ultra (I think by the time that Q9450 will come, the Ultra will be cheaper or better cards will appear)

Dangman · Nov 17, 2007

firas said:
Thnx A LOT for the great answers, Ill comment on them later (after I understand them all)
But initially I guess Ill delay the whole thing cuz of 2 reasons:
1-
This seems to be a lot better than the:
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (4x 2.4GHz/8MB L2 Cache) = what equals 307USD

Technically, yes the Q9450 is better than the Q6600. However do note that your price for the Q6600 is higher than what Americans pay. So when the new Q9450 comes, most likely it will be higher priced, at least for your area, than the Q6600.

2-
OMG, I thought the GT would be enough, my minimum target now is the Ultra (I think by the time that Q9450 will come, the Ultra will be cheaper or better cards will appear)

It is enough depending on what resolution you're planning to play at. I believe the GT is good enough for Crysis at up to 1600x1200 resolution.as long as you turn down a few settings here and there.

engiNURD · Nov 17, 2007

Danny Bui said:
I think enginurd meant the that new 8800GTS being release later this year will beat 8800GT.

Yah, thats what I meant, hehe. ... and I'll read the rest later, but it looks like Danny covered all your questions.

As for memory, it depends on which CPU you get and what your target OC is going to be. Maybe this chart will help...

Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
(CPU Multiplier) x [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed
2 x [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 x [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

Q9450: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
Q9450: 8 × 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Easy OC
Q9450: 8 × 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Good OC
Q9450: 8 × 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Great OC

I think the Q9450 can reach 4Ghz, so if you want 2GB, go for some Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 2x1GB sticks. If you want 4GB, go for the G.Skill DDR2-1000 PK 2x2GB sticks.

Also, you won't notice the difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, its negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

this is my build plan, is it ok?

firas

2[H]4U

engiNURD

Fully [H]

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod

firas

2[H]4U

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod

firas

2[H]4U

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod

engiNURD

Fully [H]