9800GTX vs. 8800GTS vs. 8800GTX at high res

I know the forum is already flooded with debates and complaints about the 9800 cards shaping up to be pretty bad. But I have a question...

The 8800gtx is better than the 8800gts at high resolutions, right? (ie 1920x1200 or higher)

And a lot of people have been saying that the 9800gtx won't be much better than the gts since it's essentially the same card. So does that mean that in high resolutions, the 8800gtx will actually be better/the same as the 9800gtx? 0.o
I find that hard to believe... surely the 9800gtx will be better at high res? In which case there must be something more to the 9800gtx than clock speed to make it better than the 8800gts?

Sorry if I sound like a noob... It's because I pretty much am but if anyone can clear up my confusion that would be nice

all the tests so far shows its only slightly faster, meaning it will not be a new generation just a new refresh of existing 8800 cards.

Yeah, that's what I've been gathering, but I'm confused because when I've asked about 2x8800gts or gt instead of 2x8800gtx, people have said that 8800gtx is better if you game at high resolutions. So if people are saying that the 9800gtx will essentially be a gts, doesn't that mean that the 9800gtx will mostly be inferior at high resolution and only slightly better/ the same at low res?

good point though I don't know.

These are the questions I'll ask:

What improvements does pci-e2 have over 1?
What's the difference between the architecture of the 9 series and 8?
The oc capabilities?

The 8800 GTX and Ultra are significantly better setup to handle higher resolutions, outperforming the 9800GTX in both raw pixel output (ROP x core clock) and Memory throughput (bus width / 8 X mem speed).

The stats on the two, using 675Mhz core speed for the 9800GTX, as its the latest estimate:

Card.........................................................9800GTX:.........................................8800GTX:........................................% decrease
Memory Throughput (GB/s).........................68.8................................................84.4................................................18
Max Raw Pixel output (GP/s)......................10.8................................................13.8................................................22

nearly every other stat, including the all important General Shader ops/sec is favoured toward the 9800GTX, but the 8800GTX will frequently out perform in older games (particularly ones without a huge texture/shader load load) on 1920X1200 and up monitors. Sound kinda like maybe one of the longest standing and most unanamously used game engines of all time, Valves Source engine, Anyone? I'll bet you will see, at 1920X1200, in HL2 ep:2, the 8800GTX regularly outperforming the 9800GTX.

GG 9800GTX, you are tay suck!

And I would still get the 8800GTS 512mb, simply because its cheaper. at $450 the 8800GTX is a waste.

Young Boy said:

What improvements does pci-e2 have over 1?

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None. No exaggeration, the 9800GX2 will not be able to saturate a full pci-e 16X 1.1 bus.

Pci-e 2 wont be around for long either. Its an increase of bandwidth by a factor of 2 in an exponentially growing requirement. The successors to the Geforce 9 series and Radeon HD3k series might see its use, maybe even their sucessors will use it, but by then we'll be on a new standard.

Young Boy said:

What's the difference between the architecture of the 9 series and 8?

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None. No exaggeration. G92 on the 8800s to G92 on the 9800. The G92b (shrink to 55nm) should be out in late Q2/early Q3, and will probably be marketed as the 9900GTX.

Young Boy said:

The oc capabilities?

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marginal to significant, Higher then that of the 8800GTS512mb, due to its new power regulation and bigger cooler.


If the 9800GTX doesn't hit an a retail price of $199 (which it wont), I will rant about how terribly un-next-gen this card is. On the other hand, I might not have to, as the 9800GTX has serious backlash potential. Think about it: average customer, doesn't know what an SP is doesn't know what a pipe is, only knows that the next gen is out and that tried and true when Nvidia releases a new gen it usually sets records. So s/he ditches the 8800GTX and upgrades to a 9800GTX at the expensive of $100. Games perform on par/slightly better/slightly worse. The result? resentment.

MrWizard6600 said:

None. No exaggeration. G92 on the 8800s to G92 on the 9800. The G92b (shrink to 55nm) should be out in late Q2/early Q3, and will probably be marketed as the 9900GTX.

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Considering nVidia track record with the 8800GT/GTS.

They may launch that GPU as also a 9800GTX, to add to the confusion.

Or... hey may market it as the new 10 series, X800GTX.

I have no faith in nVidia making sense these days...

Menelmarar said:

I have no faith in nVidia making sense these days...

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With all the success nVidia is enjoying these days, why would they care about sense? As said countless times, AMD needs to release a product that knocks the sense back into them.

I'm just gonna through my 2 cents into this, but the 9800GTX is something special just for the fact that its able to take the performance from the 8800GTX (G80 A2/A3) and further lower the power required like the 8800GTS (G92). The 9800GTX could of easily been pumped with enough juice to power lower Manhattan like the HD2600XTX were and we would of had a monster on our hand, but nvidia went with the balance route that every one complaint about that they did not take with the 8800GTX.

RangerXML said:

The 9800GTX could of easily been pumped with enough juice to power lower Manhattan like the HD2600XTX were and we would of had a monster on our hand, but nvidia went with the balance route

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For me personally, if I'm buying top end for pure horsepower, I'm not concerned with power consumption. People don't buy 1K power supplies just to look at. I don't believe their top of the line product should be "balanced". I say "give me the monster" and let me choose.

TypeO said:

For me personally, if I'm buying top end for pure horsepower, I'm not concerned with power consumption. People don't buy 1K power supplies just to look at. I don't believe their top of the line product should be "balanced". I say "give me the monster" and let me choose.

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Can we say 9900GTX, just sounds cooler

Anyways Nvidia wants to save its big guns for the 10800GTX

I'm so lost

vic23211 said:

I'm so lost

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What are you lost about? No worries my friend. It's definitely damn confusing but it's been this way for awhile now. I'm sick of the numbers 8,9,0, and the letters G, T, S, and X.

yeah their are other cool, hip, letters. what about q? and z? and w? lots of w's will be good fun

MrWizard6600 said:

If the 9800GTX doesn't hit an a retail price of $199 (which it wont), I will rant about how terribly un-next-gen this card is. On the other hand, I might not have to, as the 9800GTX has serious backlash potential. Think about it: average customer, doesn't know what an SP is doesn't know what a pipe is, only knows that the next gen is out and that tried and true when Nvidia releases a new gen it usually sets records. So s/he ditches the 8800GTX and upgrades to a 9800GTX at the expensive of $100. Games perform on par/slightly better/slightly worse. The result? resentment.

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I would like to agree with this statement, but unfortunately I think you are overestimating most people's ability to tell these things. We still have clowns on these forums where you expect a certain level of knowledge claiming that humans can't see over 60fps or even 30 in some cases. The sad truth is that most people will by 9800GTX and think they got a much better card which is exactly what Nvidia is counting on.

shiznit said:

The sad truth is that most people will by 9800GTX and think they got a much better card which is exactly what Nvidia is counting on.

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I HOPE that doesn't turn out to be true.
Pricing will ultimately determine thumbs up/down for the 9800GTX. One would think it would be priced somewhere inbetween the 8800GTS and the 8800GTX. If it is closer to the GTS in price, is more efficient, and overclocks better, it could turn out to be a pretty good deal. Unfortunately, like you said, some people with the 8800GTX might get roped into "upgrading" to the 9 series.
It was reported that 8800GTX would be replaced by the 9800GTX, and the 8800 Ultra will be replaced by the 9800GX2. So again, I HOPE...

Pricing should be the strong point of the 9800 GTX. Currently the 9800 GTX looks like it will be priced between $299 and $349 MSRP. Compared to the G92 8800 GTS ($245 - $320 at the egg) and the G80 8800 GTX ($369 - $599 at the egg), even if it performs "only" as well as the 8800 GTX that still means that you should be getting that performance at a cheaper price. It's not a good deal for people who have the 8800 GTX, but it's good for just about anyone else.

Nspace said:

Pricing should be the strong point of the 9800 GTX. Currently the 9800 GTX looks like it will be priced between $299 and $349 MSRP. Compared to the G92 8800 GTS ($245 - $320 at the egg) and the G80 8800 GTX ($369 - $599 at the egg), even if it performs "only" as well as the 8800 GTX that still means that you should be getting that performance at a cheaper price. It's not a good deal for people who have the 8800 GTX, but it's good for just about anyone else.

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its a minor extension to the 8 series, worthy of a 50 rating at best. If I were emperor of the universe, it would be called the 8801 KBTGTX (kinda better than the GTX).

MrWizard6600 said:

its a minor extension to the 8 series, worthy of a 50 rating at best. If I were emperor of the universe, it would be called the 8801 KBTGTX (kinda better than the GTX).

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That's funny lol

I still can not believe nVidia had the balls to name this slower card a next generation name Shame on you nVidia

From what I have read when gaming at standard 2560x1600rez with 4xAA 16xAF like most Gamer's use, the 2006 year 8800GTX will actually be faster than a 2008 brand new product.

So two years later nVidia can't even beat their 2006 model or just comes slightly ahead, they should ahve really named it the 8900GTX, and saved the 9800 name for real new product.

Zorachus said:

That's funny lol

I still can not believe nVidia had the balls to name this slower card a next generation name Shame on you nVidia

From what I have read when gaming at standard 2560x1600rez with 4xAA 16xAF like most Gamer's use, the 2006 year 8800GTX will actually be faster than a 2008 brand new product.

So two years later nVidia can't even beat their 2006 model or just comes slightly ahead, they should ahve really named it the 8900GTX, and saved the 9800 name for real new product.

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i think that they wanted to get the 9series naming scheme out of the way so that the totally new naming scheme would be used for a, possibly, totally new architecture (i.e. G100/GT200)

i am curious about heat output since the 9600 runs so much cooler. if i can sell my g92 gts for $x and pay $x+50 to get a card that performs exactly the same but doesn't raise the temp in my case by 15 degrees when i game for an hour, i would be happy.

mk_ln said:

i think that they wanted to get the 9series naming scheme out of the way so that the totally new naming scheme would be used for a, possibly, totally new architecture (i.e. G100/GT200)

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Why didn't they do that with the 8800 series in 2006 ? The 8800GTX was night and day above and beyond the 7800/7900 series, that would have been the perfect product for a new name.

Now the 9800 sounds like ATI's 9800Pro, this is a bad naming scheme, and the 9800GTX is a freaking joke not much faster than it's two year old 8800GTX, who the hell would even buy this 9800GTX, no 8800GTX or Ultra owner will upgrade to it, and a 8800GT is much cheaper and not that much slower...

This new 9800GTX just does not seem to fit in the product cycle, it is supposed to be a little faster than the 8800GT but costs like 50% more, but will be same speed or so as a 8800Ultra, which is built off 2006 year old technology. I would think everyone will pass on this new 9800GTX knowing there is brand new stuff just around the corner due in Summer time from nVidia, and ATI will have their ground breaking R700 out in May/June which should kill this 9800GTX

I believe that if ATI were able to offer a more competitive product one year ago, then the upcoming 9800GTX/GX2 would be name 8900GTX/GX2. To me this is a core refresh thats 1 year late because Nvidia didn't have to hurry.

I just hope that the wait for the true next gen gpu from Nvidia will have the appropriate performance jump from their old flagship cars in the past. With the time to mature their architecture and time for TSMC to shrink the core die, I'm optimistic.

IMHO nV just dropped the ball at a time when AMD is damn hungry for success in the graphics arena. They needed to maintain their lead and they blew it. Provided AMD can execute without some ridiculous delay fiasco, we may have a new leader this year.

I for one welcome our new graphics overlords.

I sent in my 8800GTX-768mb for an RMA and today i got a 9800GTX-512mb for the replacement from eVGA
i dont know if i should be happy or sad lol

Im using a 2007WFP right now but do plan to upgrade to a 25"-30" or so monitor eventually and pllan to run whatever i play on it at high setting (no crysis) Maybe farcry2, WoW and a couple others,.

happy. But if I were you I'd oc every drop I could out of your memory.

All my doom and gloom about the 9800GTX wasn't entirely accurate. Turns out pixel caching is a very small portion of the memory bandwidth used. Most of it goes to lugging those huge textures around. bearing that in mind, the 9800GTX has more than twice the texture mapping power according to GPU review (I dont know if thats accurate, but rest assured the G92 has a better memory architecture). The 320/384bit bus of the G80 was cool, but as it turns out, alot of it is probably unsaturated.

The 9800GTX is a superior card, though not by much.

I just sent my 8800GTS 640mb in hoping I get an 8800GT or 9800GT back. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect an 8800GTS 640mb back, but stories of people getting upgraded, makes me wanna be one.

Competition is ultimately going to benefit us and the "graphic overlords" lol, because they'll want to be on top of their game to outclass one another.

lol thats funny i ahve that same page open iw as reading thru it when you posted
Im goin to install it tomorrow and get back to soem decent settings lol

Good luck on your RMA