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Which calibration probe for a Wide Gamut monitor?
- Thread starter Biges
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the eye one display2 is made to go with that monitor. you need to buy the spectraview software to internally calibrate the LUT of that monitor. i'm not sure if you can use the spyder 3 with that software but i know you can use the gretag.
Yes, the Spyder2 and Spyder3 calibration probes are fine with SpectraView II.
I have used the Spyder2 calibration colorimeter with Spectraview II with no compatibility issues.
But I believe Biges, you are asking about using the full Spyder3 Elite/Pro or Gretag software/hardware combination package to calibrate? In this regard either will work as long as they support creating calibration profiles for a wide gamut monitor such as the LCD2690. Keep in mind that neither of these products will calibrate the NEC's internal Lookup tables. They create profiles that only color-aware applications (like Photoshop or Firefox 3 beta) support.
In effect, you are only calibrating the computer in this case, and only for some applications. In this case, you may want to go the same way others have gone, and set the monitor to different color modes, and calibrating using Spyder3 or Gretag that way. Experimenting is the key, as I can't tell you because I haven't tried it.
Regards,
10e
I have used the Spyder2 calibration colorimeter with Spectraview II with no compatibility issues.
But I believe Biges, you are asking about using the full Spyder3 Elite/Pro or Gretag software/hardware combination package to calibrate? In this regard either will work as long as they support creating calibration profiles for a wide gamut monitor such as the LCD2690. Keep in mind that neither of these products will calibrate the NEC's internal Lookup tables. They create profiles that only color-aware applications (like Photoshop or Firefox 3 beta) support.
In effect, you are only calibrating the computer in this case, and only for some applications. In this case, you may want to go the same way others have gone, and set the monitor to different color modes, and calibrating using Spyder3 or Gretag that way. Experimenting is the key, as I can't tell you because I haven't tried it.
Regards,
10e
If you getting an NEC and calibration hardware it would be crazy to not take advantage of the main benefit of the 90 series panels. Internal calibration of the 12bit LUT. For that you need Spectraview II.
The best deal is to buy the full Monitor/SV package. You get the monitor/software/calibration sensor.
The next is buy the monitor and then get the Spectraview kit (software plus calibration sensor). Generally this is a bit more expensive.
The most expensive choice would be to buy some other calibration package and then buy the spectraview software only.
The best deal is to buy the full Monitor/SV package. You get the monitor/software/calibration sensor.
The next is buy the monitor and then get the Spectraview kit (software plus calibration sensor). Generally this is a bit more expensive.
The most expensive choice would be to buy some other calibration package and then buy the spectraview software only.
I finally today bought my NEC 2690WUXi. I chose rather old model (januray 2007, one red dead subpixel visible, noisy, someminor color problems), but one capable of hardware LUT calibration instead of march 2008 euro model (assebled in EU, SEVEN blue subpixels, quiet, I tested it and is seems it can not be calibrated with the US SVII software, nor EU one). YES, THAT'S HOW NEC DISCRIMINATE EU CUSTOMERS, GOD PUNISH THEM AND EXILEM THEM ON SMALL ISLANDS WITH LITTLE OR NO NATURAL RESOURCES!
Anyway, I have NEC calibration soft, therefore I'm just interested whatever kit should I buy. Spyder 3 is cheaper, but the NEC guy recommended Gretag LT. Maybe I'll use it to calibrate some other monitors as well.
Anyway, I have NEC calibration soft, therefore I'm just interested whatever kit should I buy. Spyder 3 is cheaper, but the NEC guy recommended Gretag LT. Maybe I'll use it to calibrate some other monitors as well.
Don't toy with me, man
, many people around said that after calibration the monitor looked much better.
vick1000
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What? Where did you hear this nonsense. Wide gamut displays have some artifacts in normal RGB contents, but they still benefit from calibration.
To be clear. The color will never match standard sRGB, even after calibration. The color primaries are different, you can't simply calibrate that away. If you are concerned about color accruacy you are better off with a monitor that uses standard color primaries. That doesn't mean you can't find something that you find pleasing.
Huh? Wide-gamut monitors such as the NEC 3090WQXI, Samsung XL30, and Eizo CG301W can be calibrated to sRGB, and then the colors look just like on a standard gamut monitor. The problem is with wide-gamut monitors which don't have calibration capabilities. Even when they have an sRGB mode, it tends to look awful; not sure why.
I really don't know why people here have such problems answering a simple question, when I asked on prad.de, I received TWO answers and in both the responders recommended Gretag LT. Here I have SEVEN and not a single plain recommendation. I guess I'll just have to create another thread.
Anyway, so after reading through tons of posts you just try to tell me, that the calibration is not necessary?
I do not aim to perfect color accuracy, I just read, that everything looks better after calibration. Now even some people say that the monitor can be calibrated to sRGB, some claims it can not.
Anyway, so after reading through tons of posts you just try to tell me, that the calibration is not necessary?
I do not aim to perfect color accuracy, I just read, that everything looks better after calibration. Now even some people say that the monitor can be calibrated to sRGB, some claims it can not.
You never started off by saying what you already had. That makes a huge difference, because if you had nothing, it make the most sense to get the NEC SVII kit. But if you already have the SV II software then you can either get the cheapest version version of the Xrite/Getrag/Macbeth i1/Eye One LT. Which is the same sensor you get with the NEC package. Or and even cheaper Spyder to save a few bucks.
No it can't be calibrated to sRGB. The color primaries are different. You are mixing different basic pigments than the standard. Calibration will not get around that. There is a fixed "sRGB mode" that limits the range of color used, but that is not really the same thing. Just a way to cut down on the Neons, not produces highly accurate sRGB.
Most people just use it in wide gamut and "enjoy" the extra saturation it gives. Accuracy not being their primary concern.
No it can't be calibrated to sRGB. The color primaries are different. You are mixing different basic pigments than the standard. Calibration will not get around that. There is a fixed "sRGB mode" that limits the range of color used, but that is not really the same thing. Just a way to cut down on the Neons, not produces highly accurate sRGB.
Most people just use it in wide gamut and "enjoy" the extra saturation it gives. Accuracy not being their primary concern.
How did you know that?
Have you tried SVII software with i1 colorimeter to calibrate this monitor?
My friend (přijatel), when you have 2690+SVII software(appropriate revision)+i1 colorimeter in your hands it cannot "seem", it's either Yes or No.
What NEC soft do you have?
Spyder3 vs i1 - no comparison.
Spyder3 lies in brightness values and does less accurate calibration with SVII.
I have both.
I also find it unfair to limit options for european customers this way.
@albovin
Regading my current 2690WUXi (january 2007, assembled in China, SV mode activable): I have no calibration kit, but when I start EU NEC calibration Profiler, it offers me hardware calibration with SV mode activated, without it activated it offered me only SW+HW combined calibration. Of course, when I tried to start the calibration, it told me that there is no calibration kit attached or so.
US SVII communicate with monitor normally, can flash it etc.
I had some time to test another LCD2690WUXi in the shop, but not much. As I said, march 2008, assembled in EU, no SV mode activable. Euro Profiler offered only software calibration (again not kit attached), US SVII refused to communicate with the monitor. Maybe I could get it to work (restairting after driver installation), but it had no purpouse, because the monitor had seven bad blue subpixels. And in Czechia, there are not much places to actually try a monitor (usually 2690 are order-only) and Euro NEC policy would laugh in my face in case I'd like to return a monitor because some problems like dead pixels, color bleeding or whatever. So I bought the older model.
For no dead pixels etc., I'd have to buy SpectraView 2690, which costs ~45K crowns including VAT (and it even does not include a calibration kit!) as compared to ~32K for 2690WUXi.
Regading my current 2690WUXi (january 2007, assembled in China, SV mode activable): I have no calibration kit, but when I start EU NEC calibration Profiler, it offers me hardware calibration with SV mode activated, without it activated it offered me only SW+HW combined calibration. Of course, when I tried to start the calibration, it told me that there is no calibration kit attached or so.
US SVII communicate with monitor normally, can flash it etc.
I had some time to test another LCD2690WUXi in the shop, but not much. As I said, march 2008, assembled in EU, no SV mode activable. Euro Profiler offered only software calibration (again not kit attached), US SVII refused to communicate with the monitor. Maybe I could get it to work (restairting after driver installation), but it had no purpouse, because the monitor had seven bad blue subpixels. And in Czechia, there are not much places to actually try a monitor (usually 2690 are order-only) and Euro NEC policy would laugh in my face in case I'd like to return a monitor because some problems like dead pixels, color bleeding or whatever. So I bought the older model.
For no dead pixels etc., I'd have to buy SpectraView 2690, which costs ~45K crowns including VAT (and it even does not include a calibration kit!) as compared to ~32K for 2690WUXi.
@ALL
So it seems GRETAG-MACBETH Eye-One Display LT (or whatever it is called) is a better choice. And it can be, eahm,, "upgraded" to version 2 in case I'd like to take advantages of some advanced functions in the software. Althou I think ~252 USD is a bit too much, I'd better buy it from abroad. Spyder 3 I can get for ~194 USD. Or would you recommend entirely different probe?
So it seems GRETAG-MACBETH Eye-One Display LT (or whatever it is called) is a better choice. And it can be, eahm,, "upgraded" to version 2 in case I'd like to take advantages of some advanced functions in the software. Althou I think ~252 USD is a bit too much, I'd better buy it from abroad. Spyder 3 I can get for ~194 USD. Or would you recommend entirely different probe?
You need to be clear. Now it sounds like you don't have NEC SpectraView II software. If you don't, then get the NEC Spectraview II Kit. It is about $250 and includes the proper calibration software (spectraview II) and the the hardware calibrator (rebranded Xrite Eye One).
The i1Display 2 is the canonical part, in that if you bought the whole kit from NEC, that's what they ship you. It has the NEC logo on it and such, but it is just an i1Display (they say as much) and even has the license to run with i1Match.
However, it'll work just fine with the Spyder 3, that's one of the options in the software and they claim it does a good job (they say the Spyder 2 does not).
As others have mentioned: Be sure you have the Spectraview II software. That is the only software I'm aware of that calibrates the display's internal LUT. Other software will calibrate the graphics card which is less desirable.
However, it'll work just fine with the Spyder 3, that's one of the options in the software and they claim it does a good job (they say the Spyder 2 does not).
As others have mentioned: Be sure you have the Spectraview II software. That is the only software I'm aware of that calibrates the display's internal LUT. Other software will calibrate the graphics card which is less desirable.
Tamlin_WSGF
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Gretag doesn't have filters and matrix loaded for wide gamut, so the color temp will be off. That includes the i1D2 that comes with the spectraview kit. Its a generic i1D2 unlike the one that comes with the Spectraview reference led screen, which is custom build for the wide gamut.
Get the Spyder 3 and you don't have to waste time trying to compensate in order to get the proper white point.
Tamlin_WSGF
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If you wish to have a correct white point and whites targeted closer to the daylight curve on the CCT, then yes, you should get the Spyder 3.
Well, I just want, what is better and maybe cheaper
May I ask, what is the difference between Spyder 3 Pro and Spyder 3 Elite? I suppose in the software.
But wont this also require working with Spyder software that will calibrate the 8bit graphics card LUT instead of the 12bit internal LUT on the monitor?
If you already have the software why not obtain the X-Rite DTP94 colorimeter in the Eye One 2 or LT package? Since this is the colorimeter that comes with SVII-KIT (software + colorimeter) it would make the most sense.
I have calibrated to sRGB (as I've mentioned before) gamma curve, and while it is still somewhat oversaturated, it is not nearly as overly vibrant as the regular native curve, and it is far superiour to sRGB preset. I am pretty happy with this so far. Comparing it to other normal gamut monitors it is more than close enough.
You can buy the Spyder3 pro package and just use the colorimeter with SpectraView II, so that is another option, though not as accurate as the X-rite/Eye One combination I believe. I have used the Spyder2 colorimeter and it works, though I prefer the native colorimeter with the kit.
Regards,
10e
I have calibrated to sRGB (as I've mentioned before) gamma curve, and while it is still somewhat oversaturated, it is not nearly as overly vibrant as the regular native curve, and it is far superiour to sRGB preset. I am pretty happy with this so far. Comparing it to other normal gamut monitors it is more than close enough.
You can buy the Spyder3 pro package and just use the colorimeter with SpectraView II, so that is another option, though not as accurate as the X-rite/Eye One combination I believe. I have used the Spyder2 colorimeter and it works, though I prefer the native colorimeter with the kit.
Regards,
10e
Tamlin_WSGF
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Biges: The differences between Spyder 3 Elite and the Pro is the software.
Bucken: The HP is a wide gamut screen, so you need a wide gamut capable calibrator as Biges does.
Unlike a Spectroradiometer, a colorimeter is not capable of measuring "unknown" lightsources accurately. It needs to have the proper filters and calibration in its matrix in order to work with the selected lightsource.
Only if you use the Spyder software it will calibrate the GFX LUT. Not nessesarily only 8-bit, since newer GFX cards have support for higher bitdepth then that.
Both Spectraview profiler (eu version) and Spectraview 2 (US version) have support for Spyder 3. This means you have full calibration of the internal 12-bit LUT and 12-bit gamma correction if you use the Spyder 3 with that software.
Bucken: The HP is a wide gamut screen, so you need a wide gamut capable calibrator as Biges does.
Unlike a Spectroradiometer, a colorimeter is not capable of measuring "unknown" lightsources accurately. It needs to have the proper filters and calibration in its matrix in order to work with the selected lightsource.
Only if you use the Spyder software it will calibrate the GFX LUT. Not nessesarily only 8-bit, since newer GFX cards have support for higher bitdepth then that.
Both Spectraview profiler (eu version) and Spectraview 2 (US version) have support for Spyder 3. This means you have full calibration of the internal 12-bit LUT and 12-bit gamma correction if you use the Spyder 3 with that software.
The DTP94 is a different colorimeter than the Eye-One Display 2. I have both, but for wider-gamut monitors, I prefer the results I get with the Eye-One Display 2. The DTP94 makes everything too green. That could be more correct for all I know, but I don't like it. I don't know which is more accurate. I haven't used any of the Spyder models.10e said:
Do you have a source for this? It seems weird that NEC would include a colorimeter that can't handle wider-gamut screens like the 2690.Tamlin_WSGF said:
Also, I don't think SpectraView II supports the Spyder 3 colorimeter.
Tamlin_WSGF
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I had a pdf about colorimeters, spectroradiometers and spectrocolorimeters, but cant find it now. Don't have time to look it up again, so I'm sorry that I cannot provide the source at the moment.
Here's something at least from a leading color expert which has the 2690wuxi and tested them:
From Digitaldog (Andrew Rodney)
and also from Digitaldog:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t20516.html
Edit: Yes, Spectraview 2 have support for the Spyder 3 as well. Came this year.
Well, from what I've read, no colorimeter will get the white point exactly right. Spectrophotometers are more accurate for getting the white point. If the Eye-One Display 2 was only off by 500K, then that's pretty good. I haven't found any information on whether the Spyder 3 is any better.
Tamlin_WSGF
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That is true. Spectrophotometers are more accurate in getting the white point exactly right. Optimally, its best to have a colorimeter that is paired with the display. The properties of the light is read by a spectrophotometer and then loaded into the matrix of the colorimeter. Then you get the best from both worlds.
When it comes to generic ones like the E1D2 that comes with the 2690WUXi and the generic Spyder 3, the Spyder 3 have matrix and filters for wide gamut and LED also, while the E1D2 doesn't. I don't have a spectrophotometer unfortunately to test the results with, but I did buy the Spyder 3 since I wanted to test out the wide gamut capabilities of that probe and I can't say I'm disappointed.
NEC US wasn't so fond of using the Spyder 2 with their Spectraview 2 (probably works better with Spectraview profiler (from Basiccolor)), but they did have positive things to say about the Spyder 3 and the wide gamut:
http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCe...w2/?Page=downloads/readmewindows_v1_0_42.html
I would at least recommend the spyder 3 with spectraview 2 from personal experience at least.
I guess that most of the comments here are from people who do not have a wide gamut display and a calibration device.
I currently own a Dell 30"wide gamut (3007 FPW-HC) display and a coloreyes pro calibation device. I can assure you that properly calibated, and using color managed applications such as photoshop and safari for the web, that the colors are not over staurated and they are extremely accurate even when using them for viewing sRGB.
You do not need to "calibrate them to sRGB" but rather to calibrate them properly and then use the right applications to view your content.
The issue is not the display or the calibrator (although not all calibrators are created equal) but rather the OS which at least in the Windows and Vista environments are still behind the times.
Properly calibrated and with a color aware application, the 3007 will blow away any CRT I have seen including the 24" Sony widescreen and Artisan displays.
I currently own a Dell 30"wide gamut (3007 FPW-HC) display and a coloreyes pro calibation device. I can assure you that properly calibated, and using color managed applications such as photoshop and safari for the web, that the colors are not over staurated and they are extremely accurate even when using them for viewing sRGB.
You do not need to "calibrate them to sRGB" but rather to calibrate them properly and then use the right applications to view your content.
The issue is not the display or the calibrator (although not all calibrators are created equal) but rather the OS which at least in the Windows and Vista environments are still behind the times.
Properly calibrated and with a color aware application, the 3007 will blow away any CRT I have seen including the 24" Sony widescreen and Artisan displays.
No much argument with this first bit. If you calibrate your color managed applications should work rather well. Not really sure what this has to do with the current thread either. But since you brought up something I owned, I will comment.
I recently returned my 3007-HC, and the lack of color managed applications was a a very big deal. I probably have 50+ applications on my PC (when I include games/utils/movie player tons of different image viewers etc...).
Only two applications on my computer were color managed. Everything else had over saturated color. Which was unacceptable to me. Even half applications with screwed up color is not acceptable.
It makes a lot more sense (for me) to go with something like an NEC 2490 with it's standard color space and internal calibration means there will practically no difference between the few profile aware applications and the vast majority that aren't. From my perspective profiling seems like a waste when the vast majority of applications won't benefit from it.
The NEC wide gamut may be a slightly different case as you can change calibrations internally to affect all applications. Not nearly as bad as the Dell 3007-HC where you are stuck with the out of the box Neon colors in games.
The problem is most programs are not color-managed, and most images and videos are not designed for wider gamuts, so those will appear oversaturated outside of color-managed programs. Also, Safari is only color-managed for images, not HTML and CSS colors, and it doesn't correct untagged images to sRGB. Flash is also not color-managed, and neither are many video players. It's true that these are mostly software limitations, but it shows that most programs are not ready for wider-gamut displays. Regardless, calibration is still beneficial for correcting the white point and gamma curve, which can make a big difference.
I could not agree more.
Well, I'll think about it, but I'm probably going Spyder 3 way. Or I'll wait if I win One-Eye auction on eBay
I could not agree more.
Well, I'll think about it, but I'm probably going Spyder 3 way. Or I'll wait if I win One-Eye auction on eBay
You do know you still need spectraviewII to calibrate the internal LUTs, or have you given up on that?
Because otherwise it seems senless to pay ~$200 just for SVII software and ~$200 for Spyder3 for it's colorimeter.
When you could just pay ~$250 for the SVII Kit including the colorimeter.