Small (ITX) File Server Advice

I am making a small file server and have a few questions:

Some background: This server will be for home use and will be mostly for backing up my main computers and streaming movies and music. I would also like it to download torrent files occasionally, and possibly provide remote access to the server so I can access it over the web (SFTP or something like that). I am planning on trying Ubuntu Server for this, though I am also considering Windows Home Server. I am planning on using 4 drives in RAID5 to provide redundancy and run the OS off a separate hard drive.

I am planning to use these components

• Case: Chenbro ES34069
• Motherboard:Comell LV-677
• Ram: Corsair 2x1GB
• Processor:Core Duo T2300
• Boot Drive: WD Scorpio 120GB
• Array Drives: 4x WD 640GB WD6400AAKS

I have several questions about this setup

1. I was originally planning on using a bitchin-fast (tm) hardware RAID card, but from reading other threads, it seems I may not see much advantage to this. Since I am going to be accessing this thing exclusively over gigabit ethernet, will I see any disadvantage to using a software RAID card in conjunction with Linux software RAID?
2. Sort of related to the first: Will the processor be able to run the software RAID as well a a torrent client, SAMBA, and some sort of file server?
3. Is there a recommended file system to use for arrays such as these? From looking around it seems that XFS is a good choice, is this true?

I am sure more questions will arise as I try to put all this together, but those are a few of the bigger ones. Any other advice or recommendations would be welcome. I have bought most of the hardware listed above, so unless something from the list flat-out won't work, I would like to stick with that hardware.

WHS sounds ideal for you, with an exception.

If you use WHS then don't bother with the RAID card, or software RAID. WHS has its Drive Extender (DE) that acts as a sort of "software JBOD RAID 5 ish" type of thing.

The exception is that until the corruption bug is fixed you'll have to put the torrents on a non-pool drive in the box, or run it from another computer. (You don't want to modify files that are in the drive pool managed by DE currently.) There is good news however, a release candidate is out for the bug fix and in a month or two it hopefully won't be an issue.

I'm in a holding pattern on torrents now, and will move that to my WHS box when the fix goes live.

Thanks for the reply. WHS was my original OS of choice, until I read about the corruption bug. It looked like a really user friendly way to get the server running, but I like to run stuff off mapped network drives, which sounds like a recipe for disaster in its current state. What torrent program were you planning on using with it? I have seen some with web interfaces for Linux, but haven't really looked for windows.

I figured I would mess around with Ubuntu Server (since it's free) and see if I can get it working. When they release the update for WHS, I will decide whether to switch over.

Also: The motherboard I have only has 2 SATA ports, so I need some sort of add-in card.

I was originally planning on using a bitchin-fast (tm) hardware RAID card, but from reading other threads, it seems I may not see much advantage to this. Since I am going to be accessing this thing exclusively over gigabit ethernet, will I see any disadvantage to using a software RAID card in conjunction with Linux software RAID?

I went with a cheap RAID card and just used Software RAID to control the disk's, it means im more reliant on the OS im using, however it's cheaper and just as good as Hardware RAID imo.

Sort of related to the first: Will the processor be able to run the software RAID as well a a torrent client, SAMBA, and some sort of file server?

The processor will be able to handle all that you mention with ease. Im running what you mention on a XP1700 clocked at 1Ghz to keep temps down and still don't notice any slow down.

Is there a recommended file system to use for arrays such as these? From looking around it seems that XFS is a good choice, is this true?

I prefer ext3 however XFS seems to be the new file system of choice for most people.

Originally Posted by tino

I went with a cheap RAID card and just used Software RAID to control the disk's, it means im more reliant on the OS im using, however it's cheaper and just as good as Hardware RAID imo.

Thanks for the info, I figured the software RAID would be easier to recover in the case of a hardware failure (not hard drive failure). I hear it is possible to move the disks to a different Linux system and remake the array. This seems like it would be a bit easier than the hardware RAID. Especially if it is the RAID card that dies.

Has anyone tried doing this?

Originally Posted by ilikecake

Thanks for the reply. WHS was my original OS of choice, until I read about the corruption bug. It looked like a really user friendly way to get the server running, but I like to run stuff off mapped network drives, which sounds like a recipe for disaster in its current state. What torrent program were you planning on using with it? I have seen some with web interfaces for Linux, but haven't really looked for windows.

I figured I would mess around with Ubuntu Server (since it's free) and see if I can get it working. When they release the update for WHS, I will decide whether to switch over.

Also: The motherboard I have only has 2 SATA ports, so I need some sort of add-in card.

I use uTorrent, just on my HTPC for now. There's a WHS plug-in available for it too when I move it to WHS when the bug is fixed.

Mapped network drives - yeah, this seemed strange to me that they are not supported. But once you work with the DE pool you'll start to appreciate it. I don't miss mapped drives a bit. The shares are pretty simple to use, and you can use UNC if you need to. On the client PC's I have shortcuts to Videos, Pictures, etc. and in Explorer instead of mapped drives I have shortcuts under My Network Places - so everything is accessible.

Here are a few screens of my setup on page 1 of this thread: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1262238&

I've got 4 ports on the mobo populated, a 2 port card, and a 4 port card - all filled.

Messing around with Ubuntu Server sounds like a good thing to try out. I'd be interested in your impressions - backing up client pc's, if there are any issues with Windows boxes, ease of setup.

I'm in the process of setting up a Nexenta system for this, mainly for the ability to use ZFS pools. Gonna use Clutch for the Torrent WebUI.

Thanks for the responses. The only other major part I need is the SATA card. It seems like a cheap SATA card is all that is needed. So I will probably go with the Highpoint 2310. Any more advice on setting up a Linux file server (Linux n00b here) would be nice.

Messing around with Ubuntu Server sounds like a good thing to try out. I'd be interested in your impressions - backing up client pc's, if there are any issues with Windows boxes, ease of setup.

I will keep the thread updated with my progress, though it may be a bit slow. I hurt my hand and consequently have it in a cast for about a month, so we will see how well I can build one-handed.

I have a similar set up to what you're considering. It's a Ubuntu box running a 4x500GB software RAID5 array over Samba. With the hardware you're listing, you shouldn't have any trouble saturating a gigabit connection. Recent Ubuntu releases (particularly 7.10 and 8.04) are great for this purpose - the raid5 online expansion and hotswap support is mature (they were both supported to some degree in previous releases, but problems popped up here and there) - I did some real world testing of both recently.
A couple notes:
That case you list is pretty sweet, but it doesn't look like there are any expansion slots, which you're going to want in order to use that PCIe for a SATA card, so keep that in mind. An alternative would be using a standard case of your choosing, and getting a hotswap bay to install. Good quality 4in3 ones can be had for $60-70, so depending on your choice of case, you may be able to keep costs down, and get better expandability. On the other hand, if you value the small form factor, maybe you can check the clearances inside and just install a PCIe SATA card without any brackets.

For a web torrent client, check out Torrentflux-b4rt: http://tf-b4rt.berlios.de/
It's a fork of the Torrentflux client, designed to give more features and it supports using different clients for its backend, notably Azureus (which, say what you will about it, tends to be the best performing BT client around, save perhaps for µTorrent).

Also, in regards to your question about transplanting the array between machines, it can certainly be done, and quite easily. I did so recently when I goofed up and had to do a backup of my array onto a hodgepodge of other disks I had around (SATA and firewire externals). My NAS runs on pretty ancient hardware (Duron 800MHz era), so the only interfaces available to me were the 4port PCI card which was full with the array, 100Mbit ethernet, and USB1.0. Faced with days of transfer time for my backup, I decided that I would try to do a brain transplant. I downloaded a knoppix liveCD, put it into my desktop (which was equipped with extra SATA ports and firewire) and I was able to get the array up and running on new hardware with no problems. All I needed to do was boot the computer with the LiveCD, give one command to start the array, and another to mount the file system, and I was in business. Sold me on linux raid for life haha.

Needless to say, I strongly recommend it. I get reasonable performance out of an 800MHz Duron system, any modern hardware will be substantially better, you won't regret it.

Thanks for the response. It is nice to know I am not the only one crazy enough to do this. Its also good to hear that the array can be rebuilt easily.

Originally Posted by The Hunter

That case you list is pretty sweet, but it doesn't look like there are any expansion slots, which you're going to want in order to use that PCIe for a SATA card, so keep that in mind. An alternative would be using a standard case of your choosing, and getting a hotswap bay to install. Good quality 4in3 ones can be had for $60-70, so depending on your choice of case, you may be able to keep costs down, and get better expandability. On the other hand, if you value the small form factor, maybe you can check the clearances inside and just install a PCIe SATA card without any brackets.

Yeah, I realize that choosing that case puts some limits on my hardware choices. But, I have been wanting to make an mini-ITX based computer for a while, and I found a pretty good deal on the mainboard and decided to go for it. The case seems to allow for mounting a single expansion card internally, so I should be okay on that front. (as long as the card isn't too long)

Originally Posted by The Hunter

For a web torrent client, check out Torrentflux-b4rt: http://tf-b4rt.berlios.de/
It's a fork of the Torrentflux client, designed to give more features and it supports using different clients for its backend, notably Azureus (which, say what you will about it, tends to be the best performing BT client around, save perhaps for µTorrent).

Thanks for the advice, I will keep this in mind when it comes time to install

Glad to help, don't hesitate to ask, and please keep us updated, especially with some pics I'd love to see that case in action, it's a really nice looking design.

The case came in today. Man is it small. I am glad I chose a small form factor SATA card.

I took a bunch of pictures, and will try to upload some tomorrow. Unfortunately, there are a few holdups (not the least of which my hand) so it will be a while before I can build it up.

I dunno if this thread would be better suited in the SFF section. Mods: feel free to move it.

Here are the pictures as promised.


Motherboard


The box


Inside the box


The case.


With the front open


From the back


Side-by-side with my 'old' NAS


The PSU (180W)


Included HSF. Worthless for me, as it is for desktop processors.


Case with side open


With MB tray removed


The motherboard tray

The case seems pretty sturdy and such. The motherboard fits in the case despite the CF slot on the bottom. Unfortunately, Logic Supply forgot to include the I/O shield with the motherboard. Also, the included motherboard screw heads have too large a diameter, so when I tighten them, the screws start to squash some of the surface mount components near the hole. Needless to say, I did not fully install the motherboard. I can find other screws that will work, I just hope logic supply can help me locate a new I/O shield.

Finally, I leave you with my excuse for my slowness with this build, along with a cautionary tale about playing with swords.

Intresting project. Very good pictures as well. Looking foward to the build and setup. This setup is quite impressive, one which I wouldn't mind having in my home as well.
Get better soon!!!

Damn. So swords + alcohol is not a good idea?

Anyway, great project. When you get it up and running, can you please tell us how loud it is? Kinda curious about the noise level of that NAS.

Originally Posted by AMD_RULES

Intresting project. Very good pictures as well. Looking foward to the build and setup. This setup is quite impressive, one which I wouldn't mind having in my home as well.
Get better soon!!!

Thanks, though I suppose I shoulda waited untill I had bolth hands to order this.

Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Damn. So swords + alcohol is not a good idea?

Heh, not even any alcohol involved (surprisingly) Just swords and carelessness.

Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Anyway, great project. When you get it up and running, can you please tell us how loud it is? Kinda curious about the noise level of that NAS.

Yeah, I am hopeful that it will be quieter than the ReadyNAS, but we'll see with those two 70mm fans.

Too bad I'm just reading about this build now. I have that case, and I'm telling you it was made for the Albatron KI690-AM2 board. Your board has 2 sata ports; the Albatron has 4. (plus one IDE). That heatsink/fan that was included, was designed to fit on the KI690-AM2. Chenbro sells a angled PCI adapter for the KI690-AM2 too, but since your board only has PCIe and not PCI, you have to go find a angled PCIe adapter too.

The only weird thing that wasn't designed for the KI690-AM2 is the multiple HD led's and the audio mute switch. Unless the mute switch was intended for like a raid card to kill any audio alarm or something, idk.

The only thing that kind of sucks about the KI690-AM2 is that it will only take up to 2gb ram, is single channel, and is SODIMMs. But it has HDMI, dual-link DVI (Works on my 3007WFP!) and gigabit. It has optical and coax digital audio out. For an ITX board, it's pretty loaded.

That hardware makes me want to get a 1gb SAS drive 2.5" drive and 4x1tb drives in that Chenbro case to replace my 10-drive WHS box!

Originally Posted by alcuin

Too bad I'm just reading about this build now. I have that case, and I'm telling you it was made for the Albatron KI690-AM2 board. Your board has 2 sata ports; the Albatron has 4. (plus one IDE). That heatsink/fan that was included, was designed to fit on the KI690-AM2. Chenbro sells a angled PCI adapter for the KI690-AM2 too, but since your board only has PCIe and not PCI, you have to go find a angled PCIe adapter too.

Yeah, I am not sure about the PCIe riser. I don't know if the standard 1U risers that I see around would work. I may end up going with a flexible riser, but I don't know if it will fit. Once I get the SATA card, I will put it all together and see. Plus I am not that thrilled with the price.

Originally Posted by alcuin

The only weird thing that wasn't designed for the KI690-AM2 is the multiple HD led's and the audio mute switch. Unless the mute switch was intended for like a raid card to kill any audio alarm or something, idk.

Yeah, I was confused as hell by the mute button. I don't think I have ever seen that in a case before. Good idea about using it to silence the alarm on the card. I don't know if the alarm can be muted that way, but I will see when it gets here.

Originally Posted by alcuin

The only thing that kind of sucks about the KI690-AM2 is that it will only take up to 2gb ram, is single channel, and is SODIMMs. But it has HDMI, dual-link DVI (Works on my 3007WFP!) and gigabit. It has optical and coax digital audio out. For an ITX board, it's pretty loaded.

I saw some mention to that board on the Chenbro website, but that board is hard to find online, and seems a bit more expensive then the one I got (I got it on sale ).

Any advice on setting up the case? What hardware did you fit in yours?

A few more pics here:


Array drives


CPU, motherboard, OS drive, memory, DVD drive

Now all I need is the SATA card and the PCIe riser card (and two hands ). Also, someone asked about prices, here is a breakdown of the major components. Some of the prices include shipping, and some don't.

• Motherboard: Commell LV-677 -- $99.00 (Clearance sale at Logic Supply)
• Processor: Core Duo T2300 -- $59.99 (eBay)
• Memory: Corsair 2x1GB -- $39.99
• OS Drive: WD Scorpio 120GB -- $64.99
• Array Drives: WD 640GB -- $372.00 (4 each at ~$93.00 each on sale)
• DVD Drive: Samsung DVD Burner -- $45.00
• Case: Chenbro ES34069 -- 199.25
• SATA/SAS Card: Highpoint 2640X4 -- $156.99 (now deactivated?? )

============================
Total: ~$1037.21