Bad News for us SMP Folders

Taken from:

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3048&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45#p28384

VijayPande on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:18 pm :
"I have talked about doing a global rebalance of points, once GPU and SMP settles down.
The GPU clients are becoming more and more important to us and the PPD will reflect that.
My expectation is that GPU PPD would be noticeably more than SMP with the new GPU hardware, but we'll have to see."

See this thread I started.

The GPU2 client is now being benchmarked at 1,500 PpD.

Luck .........

Damn - now I got an excuse to buy a pile of new video cards.... Wife will be thrilled.

can't wait for that nvidia client to come out so my quad can do 1x smp, 1x console, 1x video

schenksmill said:

can't wait for that nvidia client to come out so my quad can do 1x smp, 1x console, 1x video

Click to expand...

If the PpDpWatt figures make it worth it to run, which I think they may.
I'm going to try 3x SMP & 2x GPU clients.
I wonder if I can get 15k PpD off one box with that combo ...........

Luck ...........

It just seems like a never ending race ...

"By Quads ...not wait but 1950's ... no wait .. buy 3870 .. no wait... buy nvidia ... no wait ..."

And the worst part is they can't even get them out of beta before they say the client is no longer the best for science .....

Tigerbiten said:

If the PpDpWatt figures make it worth it to run, which I think they may.
I'm going to try 3x SMP & 2x GPU clients.
I wonder if I can get 15k PpD off one box with that combo ...........

Luck ...........

Click to expand...

heck, if i can push higher than the ~3800-4000 PPD i push now on dual VM, i'd be thrilled. especially lately, i've been having to do a bunch of unreal engine development on the rig, so if i can get the nvidia client bringing this rig back to an average of 4000PPD, I'd be thrilled.

EvilAlchemist said:

It just seems like a never ending race ...

"By Quads ...not wait but 1950's ... no wait .. buy 3870 .. no wait... buy nvidia ... no wait ..."

And the worst part is they can't even get them out of beta before they say the client is no longer the best for science .....

Click to expand...

It’s a funny thing. The Atomic Bomb was designed with a bunch of dudes with slide rules.

We put a man on the moon with a computer little more sophisticated then a pocket calculator.

Each of us has at least one desktop computer that is more powerful then a room full of mainframes from only 5 years ago.

Not one of us has any need of a quad aside from bragging rights and the E-Penis factor because there is NO killer app that has been written to date to make use of it.

I do believe in my heart in this project and my badge reflects the time and dollars spent as does relic’s, killermob’s, majic’s, Redshread’s and old timers too numerous to mention.

That said I can’t help but to at some point start to feel just a tad abused by people who suffer from an entitlement mentality and a genuine belief that no matter what the sheep will follow.

One would think a project run with such a socialist mentality would take into account at least some of the needs of the volunteers and not assume the volunteers have unlimited deep pockets.

I might add this whole childish battle over points which is nothing more then VJ hold a carrot on a stick in front of his mule team could be remedied with a pencil and paper no computer needed.

BillR said:

Not one of us has any need of a quad aside from...

Click to expand...

Unreal Editor on cores 1 & 2....UT3 on cores 3 & 4.....trying to do UT development on a dual for me is next to impossible anymore, because i have to close the editor just to test a map



rare situation yes, but still.....i'm soooo happy i have my quad right now

EvilAlchemist said:

It just seems like a never ending race ...

"By Quads ...not wait but 1950's ... no wait .. buy 3870 .. no wait... buy nvidia ... no wait ..."

And the worst part is they can't even get them out of beta before they say the client is no longer the best for science .....

Click to expand...

I haven't been here and folding very long, I started just over a month ago. But when I got interested in this use of my "spare" computing power and decided it was for a worthwhile cause I jumped into the fray. I came in at an odd time (right about the start of the Chimp Challenge) and as probably a majority of newcomers do, loaded up the classic client and took off. I started out with a Dual Core and 2 anemic single core machines and used the CC as time to do some research as to how to most effectively produce work and points.

It was kind of good timing for me as I didn't make any changes during the CC (for fear of borking my measly production for the team) and used that time to see how the different clients worked and produced. I was both amazed by and admired alot of you cats for your contributions and the sheer amount of hardware you dedicate to the cause.) Hell I still am!

But doing my research, it appeared to me that Stanford was sort of "baiting" people (for lack of a better term) with the GPU clients and then abandoning some that had invested in this. Didn't sit well with me.

I did use the opportunity to justify an upgrade to a Q6600 that I was jonesin' for anyway (Supreme Commander is a very heavy duty processor intensive game I'm addicted to) and picked up an additional mobo to keep the Dual Core folding..... But I just can't see myself chasing the latest and greatest hardware strictly to benefit a project that seems to expect I'll keep on the upgrade path by constantly diddlin' with the points...

I did graduate to running dual SMP Notfreds' in VM and a single Notfred SMP on the Dual and with the classic client on the AthlonXP I've managed a pretty respectable ramp up to 5500+ PPD on my mini-farm.

I will upgrade and maybe even expand the farm a little as time goes on and money permits, but it will be primarily when I can justify it in my normal 2yr upgrade cycle. I am hoping when they do finally open up the Nvidia line my little 9600GT won't choke on it. If it's not supportrd, then I won't even be running it as I don't have a need for a faster card ATM

I don't mean this in any way to disparage the awesome efforts and contributions individuals and the team in general here make... I do truly admire the effort and selflessness I've seen here on the forums (otherwise I wouldn't be here and doing this) and as much as I'd like to compete with the horsepower, I'll plug along and compete as I can....

Just my humble and awe inspired .02.....

nomad8u said:

I haven't been here and folding very long, I started just over a month ago. But when I got interested in this use of my "spare" computing power and decided it was for a worthwhile cause I jumped into the fray. I came in at an odd time (right about the start of the Chimp Challenge) and as probably a majority of newcomers do, loaded up the classic client and took off. I started out with a Dual Core and 2 anemic single core machines and used the CC as time to do some research as to how to most effectively produce work and points.

It was kind of good timing for me as I didn't make any changes during the CC (for fear of borking my measly production for the team) and used that time to see how the different clients worked and produced. I was both amazed by and admired alot of you cats for your contributions and the sheer amount of hardware you dedicate to the cause.) Hell I still am!

But doing my research, it appeared to me that Stanford was sort of "baiting" people (for lack of a better term) with the GPU clients and then abandoning some that had invested in this. Didn't sit well with me.

I did use the opportunity to justify an upgrade to a Q6600 that I was jonesin' for anyway (Supreme Commander is a very heavy duty processor intensive game I'm addicted to) and picked up an additional mobo to keep the Dual Core folding..... But I just can't see myself chasing the latest and greatest hardware strictly to benefit a project that seems to expect I'll keep on the upgrade path by constantly diddlin' with the points...

I did graduate to running dual SMP Notfreds' in VM and a single Notfred SMP on the Dual and with the classic client on the AthlonXP I've managed a pretty respectable ramp up to 5500+ PPD on my mini-farm.

I will upgrade and maybe even expand the farm a little as time goes on and money permits, but it will be primarily when I can justify it in my normal 2yr upgrade cycle. I am hoping when they do finally open up the Nvidia line my little 9600GT won't choke on it. If it's not supportrd, then I won't even be running it as I don't have a need for a faster card ATM

I don't mean this in any way to disparage the awesome efforts and contributions individuals and the team in general here make... I do truly admire the effort and selflessness I've seen here on the forums (otherwise I wouldn't be here and doing this) and as much as I'd like to compete with the horsepower, I'll plug along and compete as I can....

Just my humble and awe inspired .02.....

Click to expand...

I totally understand where you are coming from cause I know where you have been. Man, if that doesn’t give my age away nothing will huh?

I would suggest you keep on doing what you are doing. Do yourself a favor and leave the politics to us seasoned vets, in fact I’d give that advice to anyone who hasn’t been at this for a number of years. The work you do is valuable and useful and my rant was in no way meant to dissuade anyone from doing their best to find a cure.

The issues I was speaking about go back 5 or so years and it’s been a battle for some common sense in both client programming and production credit.

My problem, and it’s a shared problem with many of the antiques here one would think we were dealing with a government agency instead of actual educated people with people skills. As it turns out those same people could probably benefit from some programming skills as well as project management and get these beta clients out of beta, one at a time if need be instead of having way too many projects in the works with a hit and miss approach to getting anything finalized.

The fact is way too many of us have gone through as many as 4 complete hardware changes in the past 6 years and as you probably realize, that just plain gets expensive.

My goal, or more precisely many of our goals are to stop Stanford and crew from steamrolling over everyone and causing people to become discouraged and quit.

I’m a born again cynic, relic is about the same if not worse, my guess is Evil is still at least partially still in the closet along with a few others.

So, all due respect, sit back and enjoy the rants but keep in mind the spirit is to make things better for everyone. Ok?

Keep on trucking man, you are doing good.

I know for me personally, I'm in the enviable position of being able to take advantage of the quad core rig I built through my position as a game developer. Nothing uses a quad better than the Unreal Editor and Unreal Tournament 3 in tandem, or Visual Studio and debug versions of my projects. That being said, I'm in the VAST minority of users here that would routinely use a quad to its full potential.

From where I sit, the reason I haven't pulled the trigger and made myself a larger FAH farm is because of the fact that Stanford never really seems to be knowing where they're going with things. Just in the past two years since I got my Athlon 64 X2, I've seen things go from standard client to SMP to GPU to PS3 to SMP and now GPU2, all with rather inconsistent results from one set to another. Just seeing this, it sort of becomes a matter of biding my time and just giving the hardware I have the best settings it can take advantage of, because I don't want to buy computers that I realistically have no use for outside of FAH, only to see Stanford shift focus again to other areas, leaving clients more or less behind.

schenksmill said:

I know for me personally, I'm in the enviable position of being able to take advantage of the quad core rig I built through my position as a game developer. Nothing uses a quad better than the Unreal Editor and Unreal Tournament 3 in tandem, or Visual Studio and debug versions of my projects. That being said, I'm in the VAST minority of users here that would routinely use a quad to its full potential.

From where I sit, the reason I haven't pulled the trigger and made myself a larger FAH farm is because of the fact that Stanford never really seems to be knowing where they're going with things. Just in the past two years since I got my Athlon 64 X2, I've seen things go from standard client to SMP to GPU to PS3 to SMP and now GPU2, all with rather inconsistent results from one set to another. Just seeing this, it sort of becomes a matter of biding my time and just giving the hardware I have the best settings it can take advantage of, because I don't want to buy computers that I realistically have no use for outside of FAH, only to see Stanford shift focus again to other areas, leaving clients more or less behind.

Click to expand...

I do believe the term you are searching for is “Optical Rectilitis” which sort of sums it all up.

i think NVIDIA and ATI have something with Stanford, it is all a conspiracy to push sales of hardware "hey fold! get points, you may find a cure!

I think it is finally time for me to resurrect my p4 with 3850... that will be this mornings project!

EvilAlchemist said:

Taken from:

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3048&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45#p28384

VijayPande on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:18 pm :
"I have talked about doing a global rebalance of points, once GPU and SMP settles down.
The GPU clients are becoming more and more important to us and the PPD will reflect that.
My expectation is that GPU PPD would be noticeably more than SMP with the new GPU hardware, but we'll have to see."

Click to expand...

But wait, I thought the GPU client wasn't "flexible" enough or even remotely as "flexible" as the SMP client? Does this mean the PS3 will get a bump, too? These guys seem to talk out of their asses whenever it suits them.

BillR said:

*snip*
I’m a born again cynic, relic is about the same if not worse, my guess is Evil is still at least partially still in the closet along with a few others. *snip*

Click to expand...

I hope you are not wanting me to come "out of the closet" lol ..

Seriously, I do understand what you are saying though.. ....

What lots of people fail to consider is that it's better to diversify your production and by doing that, you are not putting all the eggs in the same basket and get shafted when they change. This is what I'm currently working and when the new version of the GPU2 is released and numbers is good, I will buy a new GTX260 or GTX280 then put the 8800GTS I have in another box then I'll stop there because it's not wise to buy lots of cards which depreciate much faster than a dropping anvil.

To make the investment more worthwhile, always keep your mind on what will be useful 5 years from now. I can see a Q6600 still useful in 5 years (maybe not top end anymore but will still be great for the casual users) but video cards won't fetch that much... I'm speaking from experience with a 6800GT that I paid 650$ on release day and sold 80$ after 3 years only

While points is a nice carrot for most to push further, don't get too blinded by that aspect and think of the science you will be making with a variety of hardware.

Hey thanks Mr BillR, in my never ending battle to learn new "politically correct" terms (PC) I appreciate you introducing me to the term “Optical Rectilitis”. Man, that is one politically correct term to the max (PC)

I can appreciate where, even by mistake, the people on this forum wouldn't want this forum to be avoided and known as a place with radical or too colorful languge (the US 1st ammendment works both ways)

As far as Mr Xilikon's strategy about "diversification". I think he's "right on the money " (no pun intended) I don't think it's a good idea to put "all your eggs in one basket" involving anything, especially the individuals that have the expensive hobby of compuers (which I think most us do, plus a dedication to eradicating some very nasty diseases) And like him, I honestly believe the Q6600 cpu will be useful 5x years from now, not "first line" anymore, but still popular with the people that don't "eat and breathe" computers and always want "cutting edge hardware" (I may be bias, I have 2x Q6600's ATM)

As far as the statement about NVIDA and ATI having a conspiracy to push sales of their graphics cards, I believe that's what "free enterprise" is all about. I also think that's why the term "caveat emptor" is so popular.

OBTW: Have at it "seasoned political veterans" (not combat veterans), we wouldn't want any new ideas.

Edit: Oh yeah, not to get "locked down" or banned by the "topic police" I hope whatever happens is beneficial to the science of finding a cure for some !@##$% (PC ) diseases !!

aldamon said:

But wait, I thought the GPU client wasn't "flexible" enough or even remotely as "flexible" as the SMP client? Does this mean the PS3 will get a bump, too? These guys seem to talk out of their asses whenever it suits them.

Click to expand...

GPU1 was supposed to be the least flexible of the clients, but they said some of the PS3 work could be ported over to GPU. Who knows if its happened though. But either way GPU2 is creeping its way to double the points of the PS3.

May you live in interesting times.

Luck ..........

As Bill said, some of us have been bitching and complaining about the point structures for ages now and nothing ever seems to get done. While I love the fact that with basically 4 quads and a Pentium D I'm able to stay above 10k PPD, the actual scaling of the points is really screwed up and has been for years. Part of this has to do with the way work units are benchmarked but most of it seems to be an ever increasing points scale that doesn't seem to be a scale of any type at all. Just looking at the SMP client, there is no way to determine how they decided to put the value on the work units compared to any of the previous clients. It seems they pulled a number out of their ass and used that.

The original GPU client is much the same way. Stanford said the original GPU client would be able to process certain work units much faster than any CPU could. However, the points scale for the GPU client never reflected this. While the newer GPU ATI client seems to have rectified this a bit, who knows where they are getting the numbers for the nVidia client.

Even simpler is the difference between work units on the same platform. I had a P4 2.8 at work. It was basically the machine Stanford used for a long time to benchmark the regular client work units. However, a while back I started getting work units that didn't get anywhere close to the benchmark scores for PPD. On a regular gromacs work unit I was lucky to hit 90-95 PPD with SSE boost on. Supposedly, the machine was to do 110 PPD with SSE boost off if I remember correctly. That right there tells me something was seriously wrong. I prayed for Amber core work units on a damn P4 because I got much better PPD on them (around 150 or so) and they didn't even use SSE instructions. These are the work units you wanted your Athlons crunching because they would rape the P4 when SSE instructions weren't used. That is some seriously screwed up shit.

Since then, we have run into issues with the SMP client which Stanford "explains" that they didn't realize how badly some scaled going from 2 to 4 cores. That's a load of shit and everyone knows it. How in the hell can't they tell something is not scaling well or not? It's not rocket science and many of us saw it from day one. That's why some of us went to dual VMs and the like.

I would like to make one more point. You see a lot of guys like Bill, relic and others with a shitload of work units done but the points per work unit is actually very small. Part of this is due to the SMP client which you can see with my points and work units vs their points and work units. I've gotten the vast majority of my points via SMP. However, it still doesn't explain the differences they have. I jumped into the F@H2 project much later than they did as I stuck around with the G@H project until it closed. Because of that, I did not start when most work units weren't even worth much. People would crunch all day on one machine for a single point. At the time the F@H2 project started I believe most people were running P3s and Athlons. Less than a year ago I was still running a P3 800 on F@H2 and it was doing 32-35PPD due to increases in the points from the start of the project. Basically, as of a year ago, a P3 800 was doing in a day what a P3 800 took up to a month to do when the project started. Yes, new cores like the Gromacs core had been introduced since then, but the points structure had been thrown way off even way back then.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this anymore except to say the point structure is completely screwed up. Unfortunately, that means in some ways many people are getting screwed over time. The GPU1 client people know exactly what I'm talking about. Many of us who used to have farms of Athlons have been royally screwed. Hell, people with single core machines have been screwed. I don't even run F@H on single core machines anymore. I put them on WCG because it "feels" like they do more work for the resources used. Stanford always seems to be looking for bigger and better and doesn't give a damn how that might affect people that are currently helping them. This is probably why I haven't and probably won't jump on the GPU bandwagon. All too often something small changes and it screws over the people that invested money into it just to help Stanford. The CPU clients were the first clients and are still going strong. I might not be able to pull the best PPD out of it over the long term, but at least I know it will continue to run for a long while yet. While I may run the GPU client on the video card I buy for my main machine (if the PPD is right), I will not purchase video cards for folding only. It's a money pit that I can't afford.

Disease:
Cranio-rectal impaction

Symptoms:
Commonly misdiagnosed among the general population, a patient with cranio-rectal impaction will present with gross ignorance of current of group dynamics or social issues yet remain very outspoken. Unlike someone who is simply misinformed, people with CAI will claim to be experts and refuse to acknowledge any information contrary to their own point of view (from inside the rectum). CAI patients are often combative, obstinate and generally annoying to be around.

Etiology and Epidemiology:
The direct cause of cranio-rectal impaction is, unfortunately, unknown but there are several correlative factors. Being a member of academia has been strongly correlated with CAI. Significant association with those in academia is also well correlated.

Treatment:
Standard treatment for CAI is difficult due to poor patient compliance. Symptomatic treatments via well-supported, cogent, arguments are usually useless, especially in cases of severe impaction. Family and friends of CAI patients are encouraged to take a hands-off approach and simply ignore the symptoms. Anecdotal evidence has suggested that unsuccessful attempts at treatment may exacerbate the symptoms, causing the patient’s head to be permanently impacted within the rectum. To date all successful CAI treatments have proven terminal for the patient. Although palliative to those associated with the CAI sufferer, this may be considered extreme.

relic said:

Disease:
Cranio-rectal impaction

Symptoms:
Commonly misdiagnosed among the general population, a patient with cranio-rectal impaction will present with gross ignorance of current of group dynamics or social issues yet remain very outspoken. Unlike someone who is simply misinformed, people with CAI will claim to be experts and refuse to acknowledge any information contrary to their own point of view (from inside the rectum). CAI patients are often combative, obstinate and generally annoying to be around.

Etiology and Epidemiology:
The direct cause of cranio-rectal impaction is, unfortunately, unknown but there are several correlative factors. Being a member of academia has been strongly correlated with CAI. Significant association with those in academia is also well correlated.

Treatment:
Standard treatment for CAI is difficult due to poor patient compliance. Symptomatic treatments via well-supported, cogent, arguments are usually useless, especially in cases of severe impaction. Family and friends of CAI patients are encouraged to take a hands-off approach and simply ignore the symptoms. Anecdotal evidence has suggested that unsuccessful attempts at treatment may exacerbate the symptoms, causing the patient’s head to be permanently impacted within the rectum. To date all successful CAI treatments have proven terminal for the patient. Although palliative to those associated with the CAI sufferer, this may be considered extreme.

Click to expand...

There might be one non-lethal treatement and this would be to kick the one affected with CAI in the nuts and hope they will recover their sense.

I agree with everything Smoke wrote in the above post and all that BillR had to say previously...

EvilAlchemist said:

It just seems like a never ending race ...

"By Quads ...not wait but 1950's ... no wait .. buy 3870 .. no wait... buy nvidia ... no wait ..."

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. You outlined it quite well. Every year or so Stanford alters the hardware landscape via the point allocation structure so that previous year's optimal hardware is demoted in favor of the 'next big thing.'

When I came back to folding in spring of '07 I was astounded by the point values attributed to SMP WUs, and discovered what level of hardware it required to effectively run the SMP client in order to make the unusually tight deadlines. I posted my sentiments then stating that Stanford had established a precedent that greatly supported those gifted with vastly superior resources over those with lesser means, conditions favorable for an increasing trend towards elitism.

I was properly informed regarding the time sensitive nature of the SMP research and Stanford's requirement that the SMP results had a quick turnover for success of the projects. I bit my tongue and gradually invested over a period spanning nearly a year in the necessary hardware to meet the SMP requirements with possession of the knowledge that I would benefit the research the best way possible.

Lo and behold a year later, and we're witness to a significantly reduced SMP point structure, sudden shut down of the GPU1 client in favor of the GPU2 client, GPU2 WU values quickly reduced likely in favor of the imminent NVidia client release, WTH? Where's consistency? Where's a sensible balance? Where do we invest our resources in the interest of longevity if nothing is certain?

And the worst part is they can't even get them out of beta before they say the client is no longer the best for science .....

Click to expand...

I wonder if this 'perpetual beta' status for their clients is maintained primarily as an expedient employed in scenarios where mounting criticism from the community concerning current projects reaches an untenable state. I never bought this 'last recourse' theory alleged by some here and elsewhere, but...

Well the new GPU2 with the P4 is turning 1043PPD with the P4 at 3.0... it will hit 3.9GHZ not sure what diff that will make...

@ 3.9Ghz it rolls up to 1220 PPD, not too shabby!

After a bit it leveled out at 1338 PPD, turning them in about 2minutes per %

Anyone try running the GPU client along with dual SMP with affinity changer running?

I just installed the GPU client, I don't follow my PPD enough to tell if it will be a help or hindrance though. I have a Q6600@3Ghz and a 3870 Radeon.

I'll just run CPU clients. I got burned with the first GPU client, won't do it again, at least not intensively. If I retired my coming-real-soon-now GTX280, I'll run F@H on it. But, unless it's really worth it and it looks like the client will stick around, I won't build machines around it for folding.

I still have a ton of hardware in my closet that needs to be running. Right now I'm only running SMP on an Opteron 170 and it's crawling.

Catboxer said:

Anyone try running the GPU client along with dual SMP with affinity changer running?

I just installed the GPU client, I don't follow my PPD enough to tell if it will be a help or hindrance though. I have a Q6600@3Ghz and a 3870 Radeon.

Click to expand...

With GPU, you'll want a free core for it to run at it's best, so best setup will probably be 1xSMP, 1xStandard, 1xGPU, though whether that will be more PPD than 2xSMP is certainly up for debate right now due to little data.

relic said:

Disease:
Cranio-rectal impaction

Symptoms:
Commonly misdiagnosed among the general population, a patient with cranio-rectal impaction will present with gross ignorance of current of group dynamics or social issues yet remain very outspoken. Unlike someone who is simply misinformed, people with CAI will claim to be experts and refuse to acknowledge any information contrary to their own point of view (from inside the rectum). CAI patients are often combative, obstinate and generally annoying to be around.

Etiology and Epidemiology:
The direct cause of cranio-rectal impaction is, unfortunately, unknown but there are several correlative factors. Being a member of academia has been strongly correlated with CAI. Significant association with those in academia is also well correlated.

Treatment:
Standard treatment for CAI is difficult due to poor patient compliance. Symptomatic treatments via well-supported, cogent, arguments are usually useless, especially in cases of severe impaction. Family and friends of CAI patients are encouraged to take a hands-off approach and simply ignore the symptoms. Anecdotal evidence has suggested that unsuccessful attempts at treatment may exacerbate the symptoms, causing the patient’s head to be permanently impacted within the rectum. To date all successful CAI treatments have proven terminal for the patient. Although palliative to those associated with the CAI sufferer, this may be considered extreme.

Click to expand...

Is that anything like just being an Asshat?

SpoogeMonkey said:

Is that anything like just being an Asshat?

Click to expand...

Yes.

What's being a vet or a new folder have anything to do with the project? We all pay teh same for hardware so if its pacing just behind the technology advancements and the points are changed along with the tech we do have problems. Say what you will but you can actually start to turn people off if they have to spend large sums of money to keep pace. Maybe not be the #1 folder of the year but for your time and money you would like to see a nice point system. It is a competition. Some will do it for the love. Others just for the points. At the end of the day its where you rank in your sig.

Forget this forum. Check out the folding forums. Some upset folders that have GPU1 cards that no longer work. Also the P4 hardware that was the benchmark machine is no more, correct?

My point is I'll contribute as much as I can but if my contributions become laughable I'll contribute elsewhere.

jaxstraww said:

Forget this forum. Check out the folding forums.

Click to expand...

The 3 jackasses that frequent the folding forums aren't worth the time it takes to comment.

jaxstraww said:

What's being a vet or a new folder have anything to do with the project? We all pay teh same for hardware so if its pacing just behind the technology advancements and the points are changed along with the tech we do have problems. Say what you will but you can actually start to turn people off if they have to spend large sums of money to keep pace. Maybe not be the #1 folder of the year but for your time and money you would like to see a nice point system. It is a competition. Some will do it for the love. Others just for the points. At the end of the day its where you rank in your sig.

Forget this forum. Check out the folding forums. Some upset folders that have GPU1 cards that no longer work. Also the P4 hardware that was the benchmark machine is no more, correct?

My point is I'll contribute as much as I can but if my contributions become laughable I'll contribute elsewhere.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure which post or posts that you're refering to, but I can assure you that nobody is suggesting any contribution from any folder to be laughable. We got to where we are as a team, not as individuals. Fold what you can when you can. Some people like to race and compete, but its not a requirement for membership.

It doesn't matter how much or how little you fold, or even what team you fold for. We're all here for a common goal, even those silly monkeys at MaxPC.

jaxstraww said:

At the end of the day its where you rank in your sig.

Click to expand...

I disagree with that, big time.

Take a look at what it says right up there next to my name, and then take a look at my badge.

Hummm.......I'm 301 on this team, and have rarely broken the top 50 on our teams production list.....so what gives?

We're a team, and we work together. Don't know you yet (hope you hang around and get to know us) but here's a little bit about me.

I'm one of those that got screwed over by the unexpected death of the GPU1 client. 99% of my borg/farm runs P4 3g and slower machines. I don't give a shit about my points, I care about the science. Almost every single member here is folding "for the love" and I guarantee you that if anyone here ever says anything even remotely indicating that anyone's production is laughable.... they will be run out of here so fucking fast it would blow your mind.....and if they're lucky, SmokeRngs won't be able to find them in person.....

Hang around, get to know us.... we're all pretty much okay...

/beer and a tamale for you man.... Fold On!!



Well shit... beaten to it by alan again..... can't ramp up enough to pass him, and can't post fast enough to stay ahead either

digital_exhaust said:

I disagree with that, big time.

Take a look at what it says right up there next to my name, and then take a look at my badge.

Hummm.......I'm 301 on this team, and have rarely broken the top 50 on our teams production list.....so what gives?

We're a team, and we work together. Don't know you yet (hope you hang around and get to know us) but here's a little bit about me.

I'm one of those that got screwed over by the unexpected death of the GPU1 client. 99% of my borg/farm runs P4 3g and slower machines. I don't give a shit about my points, I care about the science. Almost every single member here is folding "for the love" and I guarantee you that if anyone here ever says anything even remotely indicating that anyone's production is laughable.... they will be run out of here so fucking fast it would blow your mind.....and if they're lucky, SmokeRngs won't be able to find them in person.....

Hang around, get to know us.... we're all pretty much okay...

/beer and a tamale for you man.... Fold On!!



Well shit... beaten to it by alan again..... can't ramp up enough to pass him, and can't post fast enough to stay ahead either

Click to expand...

You really don't have to do any ramping at the rate I'm going. I had the money for a Q6600 & mobo in hand, and my car decided to break again. Any more problems and I'm buying a 10-speed.

And just how the hell are we always in the same thread at the same time? Its a bit eerie when you stop to think about it.

My new rule:

Only buy hardware that you have a use for besides folding. (even if that means that I make a bedroom HTPC, file server, and the dog gets a PC)

I have been going back and forth on getting another quad for the farm in the basement...... not now. I'll get a new Vid card in time..... and fold on that.

Shoot (PC ), as depressed as I get reading this post (I was kinda' proud of my measly 2x Q6600's) It never ceases to amaze me when someone, like relic, comes up with another doozy like "Cranio-rectal impaction". Thanks relic for another outstanding term to aid in my on going battle of trying to use "politically correct" terms

jws2346 said:

Shoot (PC ), as depressed as I get reading this post (I was kinda' proud of my measly 2x Q6600's) It never ceases to amaze me when someone, like relic, comes up with another doozy like "Cranio-rectal impaction". Thanks relic for another outstanding term to aid in my on going battle of trying to use "politically correct" terms

Click to expand...

Ok, time to clamp down a bit, if you know anything at all about relic or myself you would realize we are the least politically fucking correct people on this earth.

Add in Smoke, King and many many others and I think perhaps you have misunderstood PC for sarcasm, cynicism, irony etc.

PC includes, unfortunately words like diversity, green, tree huggers, talking points and most people who call themselves intellectuals and those who feel any sort of academia puts them in a position to looking down on you and never take you seriously.

Ok, hope we are straight on that point.

Next;

As for the Stanford project or if you prefer VJ’s Barnum & Bailey project this whole thing started out under the premise that people at home could use their “spare” computer cycles to find cures for various illnesses. The client would only use “commuter idle time” and like everyone else I thought I would become involved in this noble project.

Right from day one it seems we all suffered unbridled enthusiasm and thought that if idle time was good, full time would be even better. At that time we folded for 5 points, 7 points etc. and we all felt good about ourselves.

I joined this forum shortly after I started folding because I enjoy fellowship and social intercourse with people of similar interests. Kyle was kind enough to provide the space and the original moderators were fun and in this area of the forum off topic became the norm but always (usually) drew fellow folders closer and as a group we had basically a shit load of fun.

In short, it was all a blast.

Where we went horribly wrong was treating the Stanford show like an untrained puppy and we did nothing to stop the puppy from crapping on the floor and peeing all over everybody in general. By the time that realization had set in many of us found we had spent untold thousands of dollars on new hardware and folk such as KillerMob, relic, Majic redshread and many more had each built farms many upwards of 20 boxen (boxen is an [H] ism as are many of the terms we use)

Now when you look at Stanford’s site you will be hard pressed to find the words “spare cycles” “idle cycles” but you will find a client for everybody and any machine.

You will also find bonus point clients to suck you in to more and faster hardware only to find if you choose to remain competitive you will buy even more hardware and on and on it goes. Worse VJ and crew treat any and all information about project changes like it was papers in an eyes only ultra top secret folding lying on the president’s desk.

Perhaps we could get more information if we filed under the freedom of information act.

Do I still believe in the project, oh yes.

I do understand the reality that I got caught up in this thing as much as anyone, I can’t argue that point and I certainly can’t blame VJ and crew, they did not hold a gun to my head.

Do I believe the project could be run in a much more professional manner, again, yes.

What would I like in return? How about a little respect, how about being kept in the loop, how about clients that work, how about VJ hiring some programmers and above all how about they learn to finish what they start and present us with projects that are ready to run out of the box so to speak.

BillR your dead on! Especially the last line! Thus the reason I have halted my mad ramp... The good thing is this [H]ardware can benefit any project not just this one. If F@H doesn't show me they can reverse their Cranio-rectal impaction, I'm probably going to go the way of Aldamon and many others to WCG. I'l have contributed some 9M pts and about 4-5k WU's by then, but my patience with where they are going with this project and how flaky things are will have reached its breaking point.