Vista multi monitor bug!!!

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jyi786

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 13, 2002
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I think I've found a bug with the way Vista handles dual screens and wallpapers.

I'm sure there are PLENTY of us who have dual monitors. For those of you who do, try this:

1. Make sure Aero is enabled, and that your taskbar is always transparent.
2. Download any dual screen capable wallpaper program. For instance, Ultramon, DisplayFusion, etc.
3. Set a DIFFERENT WALLPAPER PER MONITOR. Make sure to do this.
4. Observe?

You'll see THROUGH the transparency of the taskbar that the wallpaper schema is screwed up. There is a small part of the wallpaper that is cut off at the bottom right, around the system tray icons, and looks like the wallpaper repeating, or is confused with the wallpaper on the secondary monitor.

Here is the only way to work around this that I've found out so far:

1. Setting the taskbar to Autohide solves the problem (wallpapers display behind taskbar properly).
2. Changing the schema of monitors within the display properties. If Monitor 1 is on your right and Monitor 2 is on your left, you will have this problem. If Monitor 1 is on your LEFT and Monitor 2 is on your RIGHT, the problem will be solved.
3. Disable dual screen (not feasible).
4. Disable dual wallpaper ability (again not feasible).

Let me know what you think! If there is a way around this, I'd love to hear this. I've been literally fighting with this all weekend. Not having transparency in Vista sorta takes the life out of it.
 
I don't think this is a vista problem. AFAIK vista doesn't natively support different wallpapers for each monitor, you need your add-on applications to provide this capability. I hear they typically just copy the wallpapers into a specially sized overlarge composite wallpaper which then windows uses.

When step 2 is : download extra non-microsoft software, how can you classify this as a vista bug. level 3!!!

Not bump worthy.
 
ambientZ said:
I don't think this is a vista problem. AFAIK vista doesn't natively support different wallpapers for each monitor, you need your add-on applications to provide this capability. I hear they typically just copy the wallpapers into a specially sized overlarge composite wallpaper which then windows uses.

When step 2 is : download extra non-microsoft software, how can you classify this as a vista bug. level 3!!!

Not bump worthy.
Click to expand...

Well, it DOES work with every other OS out there except Vista. :rolleyes: Not to mention that it DOES happen without any extra "non-Microsoft" software. Set desktop backgrounds to tile, or even stretch to fit screen and it does the exact same thing.

And apparently I'm not the only one afflicted.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1293368

Bah hum bug.
 
I will have to check this when I get home because I have a tri-monitor setup and I didn't notice this.
 
i dont see it. im running vista x64, dual monitors and ultramon. i loaded an all white wallpaper on my primary display and an all black wallpaper on my secondary display. looking in the lower right of either monitor i see no issues.
 
ajm786 said:
I think I've found a bug with the way Vista handles dual screens and wallpapers.

I'm sure there are PLENTY of us who have dual monitors. For those of you who do, try this:

1. Make sure Aero is enabled, and that your taskbar is always transparent.
2. Download any dual screen capable wallpaper program. For instance, Ultramon, DisplayFusion, etc.
3. Set a DIFFERENT WALLPAPER PER MONITOR. Make sure to do this.
4. Observe?

You'll see THROUGH the transparency of the taskbar that the wallpaper schema is screwed up. There is a small part of the wallpaper that is cut off at the bottom right, around the system tray icons, and looks like the wallpaper repeating, or is confused with the wallpaper on the secondary monitor.

Here is the only way to work around this that I've found out so far:

1. Setting the taskbar to Autohide solves the problem (wallpapers display behind taskbar properly).
2. Changing the schema of monitors within the display properties. If Monitor 1 is on your right and Monitor 2 is on your left, you will have this problem. If Monitor 1 is on your LEFT and Monitor 2 is on your RIGHT, the problem will be solved.
3. Disable dual screen (not feasible).
4. Disable dual wallpaper ability (again not feasible).

Let me know what you think! If there is a way around this, I'd love to hear this. I've been literally fighting with this all weekend. Not having transparency in Vista sorta takes the life out of it.
Click to expand...
not vista, its you.

ultramon running right now with specs in sig and vista ultimate. everythign looks perfect.

stop the hate mongering
 
SippieCup said:
not vista, its you.

ultramon running right now with specs in sig and vista ultimate. everythign looks perfect.

stop the hate mongering
Click to expand...

Screenshot please. I'm not hate mongering. I'd rather use Vista right now, so keep the asinine comments to yourself.

Edit: More information.

I have 2 monitors. One is 1600x1200, which is the main one (monitor 1). The other is 1280x1024, which is the secondary one. As stated previously, the secondary is to the left of the primary.

Here is a screenshot. Explanation below.



Ignore the black border around the 1600x1200 image on the right, it's the way the image is; same goes for the black bars on the top and bottom of the left, since it's a 1280x1024.

Bottom right of entire screenshot. See the grass through the taskbar? It's supposed to show through the ENTIRE taskbar, not just the bottom right. Now, look at the Ultramon Smart Taskbar on the left. Notice something wrong? It's showing the bottom of the RIGHT SCREEN WALLPAPER (notice the green grass color).

This is what I'm talking about. It does this no matter what drivers I use, no matter what program I use for dual-wallpaper, and no matter what options I set.

If anyone knows how to point me in the right direction concerning this, I'd appreciate it. And show me some screenshots if you say that there's no bug. Don't try and brand me as a hate monger either. I'm trying to get Vista to work, since I'm trying to migrate to it; no need for name calling.
 
This is an UltraMon and/or nVidia driver issue. Submit a bug report to either (or both) of these 3rd party developers.

Wasn't there another post on this today?
 
calebb said:
This is an UltraMon and/or nVidia driver issue. Submit a bug report to either (or both) of these 3rd party developers.

Wasn't there another post on this today?
Click to expand...

Can you recommend me a driver that doesn't have this problem?

Edit: For the sake of conversation, I UNINSTALLED Ultramon and the nVidia drivers, and reverted back to about 3 sets that were 2-3 driver revisions earlier than the latest. Same problem. I think it's fair to say that Ultramon is out of the picture, since it did the same thing even with it uninstalled.

Edit 2: Even more evidence that the issue might be Vista and not nVidia or Ultramon. The developer of Ultramon blames Vista everytime someone brings up this issue.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8182&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8714&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8480&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=7854&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=7669&tmpl=UltraMon
 
I'm eager to see the naysayers' screenshots regarding this issue. Please post them so that I can review them and see if I'm doing anything wrong.
 
E7130 said:
I will test mine at home because I didn't see any problems.
Click to expand...

That's good to hear. I'm eager to see your results. I've pretty much concluded that it's an issue with nVidia video cards and/or Vista. I can reproduce it every time. Just make sure that your primary is to the right of your secondary, and you will see the bug. It will work fine if the primary is to the left of the secondary, albeit not perfectly.
 
ambientZ said:
I don't think this is a vista problem. AFAIK vista doesn't natively support different wallpapers for each monitor, you need your add-on applications to provide this capability. I hear they typically just copy the wallpapers into a specially sized overlarge composite wallpaper which then windows uses.

When step 2 is : download extra non-microsoft software, how can you classify this as a vista bug. level 3!!!

Not bump worthy.
Click to expand...

SippieCup said:
not vista, its you.

ultramon running right now with specs in sig and vista ultimate. everythign looks perfect.

stop the hate mongering
Click to expand...

calebb said:
This is an UltraMon and/or nVidia driver issue. Submit a bug report to either (or both) of these 3rd party developers.

Wasn't there another post on this today?
Click to expand...

ajm786 said:
Can you recommend me a driver that doesn't have this problem?

Edit: For the sake of conversation, I UNINSTALLED Ultramon and the nVidia drivers, and reverted back to about 3 sets that were 2-3 driver revisions earlier than the latest. Same problem. I think it's fair to say that Ultramon is out of the picture, since it did the same thing even with it uninstalled.

Edit 2: Even more evidence that the issue might be Vista and not nVidia or Ultramon. The developer of Ultramon blames Vista everytime someone brings up this issue.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8182&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8714&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=8480&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=7854&tmpl=UltraMon

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/forum/messages.asp?Topic=7669&tmpl=UltraMon
Click to expand...


Those posts all say the problem is "likely" with Vista. I don't think it is.

See screenshot: nVidia 8600M

 
calebb said:
Those posts all say the problem is "likely" with Vista. I don't think it is.

See screenshot: nVidia 8600M

Click to expand...

If I use a SINGLE wallpaper on both wallpapers with Vista, yes, I admit, it works fine. I stated that in my original post. In that screenshot you provided, I can make it look just like that, as long as I use a SINGLE wallpaper.

I'm talking about dual wallpapers. If I set each monitor to use a different wallpaper, you'll see what I'm talking about. Download DisplayFusion and try it for yourself. You'll see as soon as you make both monitors use a different wallpaper that it'll have the same bug as in my screenshot.
 
ajm786 said:
If I use a SINGLE wallpaper on both wallpapers with Vista, yes, I admit, it works fine. I stated that in my original post. In that screenshot you provided, I can make it look just like that, as long as I use a SINGLE wallpaper.

I'm talking about dual wallpapers. If I set each monitor to use a different wallpaper, you'll see what I'm talking about. Download DisplayFusion and try it for yourself. You'll see as soon as you make both monitors use a different wallpaper that it'll have the same bug as in my screenshot.
Click to expand...

How do you know that DisplayFusion did not reverse engineer UltraMon and use the same code? (which is potentially buggy)?
 
calebb said:
How do you know that DisplayFusion did not reverse engineer UltraMon and use the same code? (which is potentially buggy)?
Click to expand...

That's a very good question. I can't answer that, not having reverse engineered Ultramon myself. :p However, using that logic, it would mean that the other 2 dual wallpaper programs I tried also reverse engineered Ultramon, and THAT is highly unlikely; both programs also exhibited the same bug.

Edit: Here's the other program I was talking about:

http://www.johnsadventures.com/software/backgroundswitcher
 
So I started a thread on the support forums of John's Adventures Wallpaper Switcher, of which I posted a link to in my previous post.

http://www.johnsadventures.com/forum/topic.php?id=376

Edit: He finally seems to acknowledge the problem as being Vista. I guess the only way to work around this is to apply my smaller (secondary) monitor as my primary while taking the main taskbar and applying it to my larger monitor. Then I can use Ultramon to assign programs so that they do not open on the smaller monitor. This way, I'll be using my secondary monitor as my primary. The only issue is going to be when I install applications; they are going to always open up on the primary monitor, so I can't do anything about that there.
 
Did this ever get fixed? I've kept seeing people talking about the same bug here and elsewhere... I've been evaluating UltraMon and DisplayFusion trying to decide which one I wanna pay for, it's not really a concern for me right now as my 2nd display is to my right, but some day I might get a new desk and it's likely I'd move it to the left (closer to the computer, right now it's on a second desk/bench). I guess it'd be a fix within Vista either way...

Did you like DisplayFusion btw? So far I've liked it better than UltraMon except for two things... DisplayFusion seems to do some sort of system polling to populate it's taskbar so it's often eating up 1-3% cpu cycles, not a big deal with today's processors I guess. The other thing is the hotkeys in UltraMon to move my cursor to the second screen and to center it on the primary screen.

I like the way DisplayFusion handles wallpapers a lot better though, no need for some funky script like with UM. I can have it randomize my wallpaper on each screen and it gives me a lot of sizing/scaling and positioning options that are independent to each display, very nice. I also like middle-clicking to send applications to the next display, and I like some of it's hotkeys to move and resize windows on the fly too.

P.S. I know it's a really old thread.
 
Holy batman resurrection thread!!! :eek:

No, unfortunately, this problem has NOT been rectified, and, with the advent of Windows 7, I honestly don't think Microsoft cares anymore.

No 3rd party program works/fixes it. I tried them ALL. Displayfusion, Ultramon Wallpaper, Wallpaper Master, John's Background Switcher, all of them. The problem is Vista, and Microsoft won't acknowledge it. They totally ignored my trouble ticket request, and blamed it on the "software developer", and the fact that they do not offer dual monitor wallpaper capabilities native to Vista. :rolleyes: When I asked why it works perfectly fine with XP, they said "We don't know." :rolleyes:
 
Heh, go figure, it looks like they aren't expanding dual display support at all within Windows 7 either, from what I've read at 'least. They talked about adding the second/extended taskbar early on but said it was shot down according to later comments. I just realized NV drivers actually had that functionality (in XP of 'course) a while ago and it was later removed, what's MS got against multiple taskbars? :p

Seems like the DF dev is working more actively with regards to Win7 support than the UM guy is though, he's about to release a new version that improves the Win7 taskbar whereas UM barely even works in 7 right now (w/the fuglier taskbar and some registry tweaks, etc).
 
Impulse said:
Heh, go figure, it looks like they aren't expanding dual display support at all within Windows 7 either, from what I've read at 'least. They talked about adding the second/extended taskbar early on but said it was shot down according to later comments. I just realized NV drivers actually had that functionality (in XP of 'course) a while ago and it was later removed, what's MS got against multiple taskbars? :p
Click to expand...

WHAT???? I thought they were going native with Windows 7!?!??!!? They're not?? Links I demand!!!
 
ajm786 said:
The problem is Vista, and Microsoft won't acknowledge it. They totally ignored my trouble ticket request, and blamed it on the "software developer", and the fact that they do not offer dual monitor wallpaper capabilities native to Vista. :rolleyes: When I asked why it works perfectly fine with XP, they said "We don't know." :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
If MS doesn't provide the functionality, it's not their responsibility to test for it. The problem only occurs when you're using 3rd party programs, thus it's the 3rd parties' responsibility to fix it.
I just realized NV drivers actually had that functionality (in XP of 'course) a while ago and it was later removed, what's MS got against multiple taskbars?
Click to expand...
That's an NVIDIA being lazy problem, not an MS problem.
 
Arainach said:
If MS doesn't provide the functionality, it's not their responsibility to test for it. The problem only occurs when you're using 3rd party programs, thus it's the 3rd parties' responsibility to fix it.That's an NVIDIA being lazy problem, not an MS problem.
Click to expand...

If you read the entire thread, you'd find out that ALL the software devs I've spoken to agree that the problem is with VISTA. It's Microsoft's problem, not theirs. And the argument that if Microsoft doesn't provide the functionality it's not their responsibility doesn't fly here; it works PERFECTLY in XP. Which means they broke something, and are either unwilling to fix it, or don't want to admit it CAN'T be fixed.
 
Does Microsoft support multiple wallpapers? No. Since it's THEIR (3rd party) code that does multiple wallpapers, it's their responsibility to make sure their HACKS don't break the taskbar.
 
Arainach said:
Does Microsoft support multiple wallpapers? No. Since it's THEIR (3rd party) code that does multiple wallpapers, it's their responsibility to make sure their HACKS don't break the taskbar.
Click to expand...

Dude. It's not only about the taskbar. It's about wallpapers themselves.

And define hack. By your definition, a program that allows extra functionality is eligible to be called a hack too, right? Because that's exactly what's being done here. Dual wallpapers, extra taskbars, these are all extra functionality.

When developers are adding extra functionality, I think it's pretty safe to say that some of them know pretty deep down into the way the OS is working. Which means it's easier to find a bug. Which means that if they all come to the same conclusion, by golly, the OS has a FREAKING BUG. That's what this is about. Vista has a bug with the way that it arranges backgrounds for more than 1 monitor. It works perfectly in XP, 2000, 98, but does NOT in Vista. That's a bug, sir.
 
Any program that uses anything except documented APIs is a hack, since it depends on behavior that's not guaranteed and subject to change (and breaking) at any time. This includes most any anti-virus/security applications and strange graphical tweaks.

Every single way that Vista provides to set its wallpaper works perfectly. Thus, there is no bug.
 
Arainach said:
Any program that uses anything except documented APIs is a hack, since it depends on behavior that's not guaranteed and subject to change (and breaking) at any time.

Every single way that Vista provides to set its wallpaper works perfectly. Thus, there is no bug.
Click to expand...

If you are not going to read the rest of the thread, there's no point in you posting any further on this.

I already mentioned earlier on that this bug is reproducible without using any 3rd party software, using Vista's own provided options.

http://www.aerotaskforce.com/view/893

Clearly, there is a bug. Do you have any further arguments now?
 
If you look at this one http://666kb.com/i/atw043isc08ktm7br.jpg

The top part of the start menu is using the wallpaper from the right monitor as if the start menu is over on that monitor.

Look's like a bug with the start menu not knowing which monitor it's on or it's assuming that both monitors have the same wallpaper so it just uses the primary's wallpaper.
 
Met-AL said:
If you look at this one http://666kb.com/i/atw043isc08ktm7br.jpg

The top part of the start menu is using the wallpaper from the right monitor as if the start menu is over on that monitor.

Look's like a bug with the start menu not knowing which monitor it's on or it's assuming that both monitors have the same wallpaper so it just uses the primary's wallpaper.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU. That about sums up the problem, in layman's terms.
 
ajm786 said:
If you are not going to read the rest of the thread, there's no point in you posting any further on this.

I already mentioned earlier on that this bug is reproducible without using any 3rd party software, using Vista's own provided options.

http://www.aerotaskforce.com/view/893

Clearly, there is a bug. Do you have any further arguments now?
Click to expand...
There's a bug because someone says there's a bug? I'm unable to replicate this on my home machine, and the screenshot in the post after you is using 3rd party software (because on a stock Vista system, the Start Menu is on the primary monitor 100% of the time, no exceptions). I've yet to see a stock Vista screenshot of this.
 
Arainach said:
There's a bug because someone says there's a bug? I'm unable to replicate this on my home machine, and the screenshot in the post after you is using 3rd party software (because on a stock Vista system, the Start Menu is on the primary monitor 100% of the time, no exceptions). I've yet to see a stock Vista screenshot of this.
Click to expand...

No. Clearly 20+ and countless unnamed/unidentified people only count as one person saying there is a bug. :rolleyes:

So if I move the Start Menu toolbar (the main taskbar) to a different monitor and encounter bugs, (without using 3rd party software), who would you say is to blame?

I also mentioned that by using the Auto Hide feature of the main taskbar, the bug is resolved. Who's problem would that be?

Edit: Some more proof for you.

Screenshot 1: Auto Hide enabled: No bug


Screenshot 2: Bug obviously present


Screenshot 3: Bug obviously present, no 3rd party software used; monitor 1 is NOT using the same value as monitor 2, yet wallpaper is positioned that way


Screenshot 4: Bug obviously present, Ultramon used; monitor 1 is NOT using the same y value as monitor 2, yet wallpaper is positioned that way
 
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Arainach said:
That's an NVIDIA being lazy problem, not an MS problem.
Click to expand...

It's a MS problem that they barely support dual-display configs at all in this day and age, imo. There should be no need for all this 3rd party software or GPU-driver functionality... If there's one thing that should've been built into the OS long ago, it's this.

Regardless, the bug being discussed has zero to do with 3rd party software or even drivers, learn2read.
 
Impulse said:
It's a MS problem that they barely support dual-display configs at all in this day and age, imo. There should be no need for all this 3rd party software or GPU-driver functionality... If there's one thing that should've been built into the OS long ago, it's this.

Regardless, the bug being discussed has zero to do with 3rd party software or even drivers, learn2read.
Click to expand...


Just throwing this out there but: what would happen to the 3rd party devs, like Christian (Ultramon) or Jon (DF) were Microsoft to cram in all the dual, multi-monitor support -- that 20%, maybe 30% (pushing it) of their demographics(users) need, want , even use?

Just so everyone knows, I (as did others) reported this very same bug to the developer of Ultramon in his first release of the Vista-supported builds. So, I know it's there, and I'm not ignoring there is an inconsistency.
 
You're deluding yourself if you think either Christian or Jon make a living out of the proceeds from either program... I'm guessing they do it because they themselves use it and they enjoy it. I'm not trying to speak for them, but I think most savvy users would rather have this sort of highly technical and hard to implement functionality fully integrated in the OS by the people who actually code the OS, to avoid as many conflicts as possible.
 
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