Question on HDMI audio & the 360

Domingo

Domingo

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I got a new 360 Elite and it seems to want to give me PCM 2.1 audio by default. Even though I select Dolby 5.1 in the menu, everything seems to want to go with PCM 2.1. The only real fix is to select Dolby Stereo and then select Dolby 5.1...then everything comes out normally. The problem is, it seems to reset itself every time I power the 360 off.
I realize I could hook up an optical cable to fix that, but I really would prefer to just have the HDMI be the all-in-one solution.
Anyone else had this happen? Any advice besides using a toslink, too?
 
you have a receiver that actually accepts HDMI audio properly? I've never seen such a beast... the ones I've seen that DO take the input have all kinds of issues. IMHO optical is better, and digital coax is best.
 
Could be where you're plugging your HDMI cable in (monitor). I'm using HDMI to my LCD and it my monitor picks up the 5.1 audio fine.
 
My receiver is the Onkyo TX-SR605. It's not too much. I got it new for $350 last year. Sony has one that's pretty similar, too. It takes HDMI audio just fine. Never had any PS3 or Cable box hiccups at least. I just get the impression that it sees a PCM signal and prioritizes it. I can get the 5.1 working okay after the signal toggle each time, but it's almost like it forgets that's what I want and it goes back to PCM 2.1 each time. I might just go to the optical dongle if I can't seem to fix it.
 
IdiotCow said:
you have a receiver that actually accepts HDMI audio properly? I've never seen such a beast... the ones I've seen that DO take the input have all kinds of issues. IMHO optical is better, and digital coax is best.
Click to expand...
Huh? Did you just emerge from the year 2005 or something? Most modern receivers handle HDMI just fine. Also, SPDIF (coax or optical) has way less bandwidth than HDMI, not to mention the second wire involved. You definitely want to use HDMI audio whenever possible, even on the 360 (which can't do "better" than SPDIF formats anyways).

I have no idea what is causing the OP's problem, as my system doesn't seem to have the same issue. I'd be surprised if it was a 605 specific issue, then again, I'm not sure what else it could be.
 
I have the SR-805 with no such issue.

You want the xbox to be in dolby digital mode. If you have the xbox in dolby stereo your receiver shouldn't even be putting out 5.1 sound.
 
Archaea said:
I have the SR-805 with no such issue.

You want the xbox to be in dolby digital mode. If you have the xbox in dolby stereo your receiver shouldn't even be putting out 5.1 sound.
Click to expand...

Yeah, even though it's selected as Dolby 5.1, the receiver sees the signal as 2.1. However once I tell it to go to Dolby Stereo (it doesn't change anything) and then BACK to Dolby 5.1 is when it actually works.
I'll play around with some settings when I get home, but if it doesn't work, I'll just start using the toslink. Considering the 360 doesn't use anything that makes the HDMI needed, it'll be no big deal.
 
Perhaps totally unrelated, but is your firmware up to date?


firmware update for the TX-SR605 is now available through Onkyo’s Independent Regional Service Centers. This update will address the product’s ability to decode the Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD High Resolution and Master Audio bit stream signals when products incorporating this capability become available in the market.
This update affects only a limited number of early production TX-SR605 units. Onkyo has included this update in all later production models.To determine if your unit is one of the few affected units please enter the 10 digit product serial number below.
If your unit is eligible for this update, it will be done free of charge. You must follow the instruction on this and the following pages to receive the prepaid return mailing label. Units received without this label will not be processed.
We wish you many years of enjoyment with your TX-SR605 and its HD capabilities.
Click to expand...

http://www.onkyousa.com/605firmware_replace.cfm
 
Interesting, but it appears my model doesn't require the update.
More and more, I'm thinking it's related to that damned system transfer kit.
It jacked up a few settings of mine, but as time passes, things just seem to start fixing themselves. Today, this doesn't seem to be an issue as it's defaulting to DD again. Anyway, my buddy had issues with his elite after the transfer kit, too. I'm thinking that it somehow overwrites some odd things.
 
Its because the 360 doesn't do 5.1 over HDMI. Properly that is.
 
Archaea said:
references to 360 not doing 5.1 properly over HDMI?
Click to expand...
My guess is that this is a reference to the fact that the 360 can only output PCM-2.0, DD-5.1, and WMA Pro over HDMI. Those also happen to be exactly the formats it can output over SPDIF / optical. It would have been slightly better if it could have sent out DTS, multi-channel PCM, and the HBR audio codecs (DD+, THD, DTS-HD MA/HR).

How this means it's not sending out "5.1 properly" is beyond me. Those limitations do affect sound quality, but don't really have anything to do with the issue at hand. Did Sony hire viral marketers, or are the fanboys just acting up again?

As for the transfer kit hypothesis: sorry, but I used one and never experienced this issue.
 
Yeah, I guess it happened again this morning. The DD light comes on the instant I turn on the machine, but as soon as the system boots to the OS, the light goes off and it's back to PCM stereo. It's not even Dolby Stereo - just analog. I'm thinking the receiver sees a PCM signal and is prioritizing it.
About 2/3 of the time the system remembers to do DD, but every 5th or 6th time I restart the machine, it's back to 2 channel analog until I cycle the sound settings.
Oh well, I just used the toslink dongle and "fixed" this problem. Unless they somehow upgrade the 360 firmware to allow the HD codecs (not sure why they would unless they release a Blu-Ray drive) I'll be fine like this.
 
As it turns out, I just ran into this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=993204

Seems that it's not just me. I guess it's somewhat common...and most people are in the same boat that it's only random when it does and doesn't work properly.
One guy claims he has a psuedo fix for it involving the HDMI audio out/lip sync.
 
Actually, the most interesting HDMI oddity I've run into is this:

I'm using an STR-DA2400ES receiver, which has all the fun HDMI features. If I'm switched over to, say, the TiVo when I hit the power button or eject button on the 360 to turn the it on, it _will not boot_ (or at least display video) until I switch to the 360's HDMI input. The tray will still come out just fine, so it's clearly got power, but you won't see the whole 360 startup screen (with the big X orb) until you switch to the 360's input - it waits for you!

I'm not sure if I consider that annoying or neat, but it certainly isn't the behavior I expected. It _might_ have something to do with lip-sync, I guess.

It sounds to me like you should double-check your Onkyo's settings to make sure you're not passing sound to TV+AMP or whatever. You just want to pass it to the amplifier section on your receiver. It seems like that if you set your receiver to pass to both the TV and the amp section, it'll auto-negotiate to figure out what your TV can do - which generally isn't 5.1 surround sound.
 
erwos said:
My guess is that this is a reference to the fact that the 360 can only output PCM-2.0, DD-5.1, and WMA Pro over HDMI. Those also happen to be exactly the formats it can output over SPDIF / optical. It would have been slightly better if it could have sent out DTS, multi-channel PCM, and the HBR audio codecs (DD+, THD, DTS-HD MA/HR).

How this means it's not sending out "5.1 properly" is beyond me. Those limitations do affect sound quality, but don't really have anything to do with the issue at hand. Did Sony hire viral marketers, or are the fanboys just acting up again?

As for the transfer kit hypothesis: sorry, but I used one and never experienced this issue.
Click to expand...


well that's crap. DD on the original Xbox and on the 360 has always worked 100% for me. Unlike the Audigy Sound Cards which promise 5.1 but NEVER put it out when connected to a receiver through Optical on the Audigy 2 ZS nor coxial on any of the models I've had.....

I bought the SR-805 a few months back without really researching those new HD audio formats too much. I've found out since that the formats pretty much don't exist in the real world. Sure the receiver supports them, but I've yet to purchase a Blue-Ray disk that has the Actual DTS-HD or 7.1 DD.

Sorta like 7.1 sound. It's good marketing to make people buy speakers, but there's never really been more than a handful of demos that utilize it in the real world. 99% of all DVDs never had 7.1 and it's not becoming more common with HD-DVD (now dead) nor Blu-Ray -- that I've seen anyway.
 
You're right about 7.1 audio. I've never seen any movies use it, although I think a few PS3 games do. If you have a 7.1 set-up, I guess the 5.1 audio gets mixed to the other speakers...but it's needless.
DTD-HD's a real format and I've run into it a few times...BUT since the PS3 has an internal decoder that turns it into PCM audio, you don't need a decoder to play it. My 605's in the same boat.
For the Audigy - you can do 5.1 with a toslink adapter, but you have to buy it from Creative. It's literally useless for anything except movies as it'll only do 2.1 sound if there's no DD soundtrack.
Want something better?
Get THIS: http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=14309

This will give you straight up 5.1 or 7.1 PCM audio on your receiver straight from your sound card. It'll work with anything from movies to EAX games...and since the newest Creative drivers support DD and DTS natively through software, this replaced the need for a toslink, too.
 
I think you're confused about DD Live and DTS Connect. Instead of using the cable you linked to you use the optical cable. DDL or DTSC (whatever you select) encodes whatever your card is outputting into a DD or DTS signal and shoots it to your receiver. I think it only does up to 5.1 signals but it will take 5.1 sound from a PC game, encode it and shoot it to your receiver as 5.1 sound where as without DDL or DTSC it would just be a 2-channel stream.

7.1 sound is in some PS3 games and I guess it's in many HD movies. If you're going to use 7.1 sound on PC games then you probably need to use the individual outputs from the card into the receiver's individual 7.1 inputs.
 
I've got the optical hook-up for my PC/receiver and that 7.1 analog is a better solution.
It's 7 independent channels going straight into the reciever, so it'll do Dolby Digital and DTS as long as you have a software decoder...which the X-Fi cards do by default in the newer drivers. There are software decoders for the Audigy cards, too.
Using the bitstream/toslink for the X-fi and Audigy will net you 5.1 audio if there's a bitstream audio file (like a DVD or AC3 file), but for games it's just 2.1 or Dolby Pro Logic at best.
That 7.1 analog is actually good enough to do PCM 7.1 via a Blu-Ray drive on your PC.
It's analog, so you DO need decoders for the bitstream content, but there are a ton of software solutions and make it a much better all-in-one solution. Plus...you can always have programs convert the audio to straight multi-channel PCM, too. It doesn't sound any better, but it's easy and free.
 
Domingo said:
Using the bitstream/toslink for the X-fi and Audigy will net you 5.1 audio if there's a bitstream audio file (like a DVD or AC3 file), but for games it's just 2.1 or Dolby Pro Logic at best.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. Made me so frustrated. Why could the archaic original Xbox that retailed for 299$ output all games in true 5.1 Dolby Digital sound while the then modern PC top of the line gaming audio cards costing $300 (IE the Audigy 2 ZS Plantinum pro with the live drive) could only do 2.1 Dolby stereo through optical or digital coax. How does that make sense???? $300 dollars for a lesser sound card, or $300 dollars for a whole entertainment system capable of true DD audio? ---- EVEN WORSE the Creative Box clearly advertises 5.1 sound all the way back to the original Live 5.1 card. I bought the original 5.1 live card, the audigy card, the Audigy 2, and the Audigy 2 ZS Plantinum pro over the years. All in an attempt to get better sound and DD output since I played my PC audio over my Denon 5700 AVR receiver. None of theses cards would output true 5.1 sound over the a true digital connection. I finally gave up and bought a set of computer logitech speakers with all the analogue connections. --- Creative should have been sued for false advertising in a class action lawsuits. It stilll makes me boil even after several years of not even trying.

*Takes a breath*

:mad:
 
Would it really kill you to use an optical cable for your audio?

Stll though, that's a strange problem. I'd be curious to know why this happens.
 
erwos said:
It sounds to me like you should double-check your Onkyo's settings to make sure you're not passing sound to TV+AMP or whatever. You just want to pass it to the amplifier section on your receiver. It seems like that if you set your receiver to pass to both the TV and the amp section, it'll auto-negotiate to figure out what your TV can do - which generally isn't 5.1 surround sound.
Click to expand...
Did you ever check this?
 
I checked everything in the receiver...and it's configured right. It's just a bug in the handshake for the 360...hence why it only happens like 1/4 of the time.
I ended up just using the optical out as a fix. It doesn't kill me to do that, but it's just a personal annoyance :)
 
 
Playing with the Lip Sync and HDMI monitor makes Dolby Digital work (without that it won't do anything except 2.1 PCM) but the 360 still seems to forget that setting and go back to 2.1 every 4th or 5th time I turn on the system.
I ended up just going with the toslink as it's more or less the same. Maybe the fall update will fix the handshaking protocol, or maybe I'll just stick to the toslink. Unless MS reveals some means for lossless audio (which would also fix the issues), it's just the hassle of having another cable.
 
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