Ultra Small Form Factor Build using the DG45FC Mini-Itx

All,

I currently have an HTPC build using a Intel 975XBX2, E4300 1.8ghz, Radeon 2600HD, RAIDed 80gb Velociraptors, etc in a Lian LI ATX Case. Built it awhile ago and given the advancements in IGPs and cooler chips (and that my wife is hounding me to get rid of the "bulky" computer), I want to build a super small HTPC. Primary use is for movies (blu rays, HDDVDs, etc) which need to playback flawlessly, TV shows (downloaded only, no desire for a tuner), music, and pictures. My biggest problem was finding a case (which i wanted to be mac mini -like small) until now. I recently stumbled across a new Morex that I think is PERFECT for the job. I would welcome any suggestions or thoughts, including making sure the PSU will handle the build as well as heat concerns.

Desired Build:

Motherboard: Intel Mini-itx DG45FC
Case: Morex T3500 (http://www.e-itx.com/morex-t3500b-pro.html)
CPU: Debating between a e8200 and an e8400 (or should i go lesser?)
GPU: x4500HD onboard GPU
RAM: 2GB Corsair XMS
PSU: 150W pico style that comes with case (also comes with external brick)
HDD: Probably go with a WD Scorpio Black 250GB 2.5" 7200RPM
ODD: Not sure if I will include; Still looking for a slimline Blu Ray (I have the LG 5.25" right now)
Heatsink/Cooler: Dynatron P199 (w/ 80MM fan) 1U style [UPDATE] I have read the Dynatron may be loud and so I am also considering a Hiper Low Profile 10828-C2 Copper heatsink
Other: Microcooler Southside heatsink since Intel does not provide cooling for the ICH and everyone said it runs VERY hot.

Also, I'd like to rig up an internal IR since the Board has headers for them. Any idea on where to find one or how to mod for one? I can always use an external USB or Bluetooth but would prefer not to...

Thanks in advance for any help.

I would recommend this instead:

J&W MINIX 780G-SP128MB mini-ITX
any 45watt Dual Core AM2 chip

Should stay under 100 watts easy and it leagues better then the POS Intel X4500HD based IGP solution.

Really, because I have no problem driving 1080p for my samsung tv off the DG45FC. Sadly I am thinking of selling the board, only because I cant find a case I like.

The Spyder said:

Really, because I have no problem driving 1080p for my samsung tv off the DG45FC. Sadly I am thinking of selling the board, only because I cant find a case I like.

Click to expand...

you check out that morex in my post? be curious on your thoughts. what are you using now?

interested in what others have to say cause that case looks good and would love to build my girlfriend something small like that since all she does is surf the net.

I like that case, though it's pricey Are you worried about 24p or the lossless codecs?

My tv is only 60hz and it doesnt really matter to me...plus I am sure it will be fixed one day in an update. As far as lossless codecs, i still have a receiver that can only use 5.1 But I know the board does not have PAP and can not bitstream - but can any board? I believe it can do 8 channel over HDMI LPCM correct? (even if its downsampled by PDVD).

I have a normal sized LG bluray drive, im making the jump to the Nvidia 9400/,matx board. Dont happen to want this one by any chance?

dhy8386 said:

My tv is only 60hz and it doesnt really matter to me...plus I am sure it will be fixed one day in an update. As far as lossless codecs, i still have a receiver that can only use 5.1 But I know the board does not have PAP and can not bitstream - but can any board? I believe it can do 8 channel over HDMI LPCM correct? (even if its downsampled by PDVD).

Click to expand...

The G45 is the lowest quality IGP for HTPCs out there. Seriously, it's not worth bothering with because of how crappy it is compared to the other IGPs out there.

Just so you know, Intel has been trying to sell their IGPs perfect for HD playback since the G965 and so far they haven't been able to get their drivers together.

Go with the Jetway NV 8200 board or the 780G version (the 8200 is better) if you want to build in this form factor. Personally I think such tiny form factors for an HTPC is pretty retarded due to the heat output and very limited expansion abilities but it's really your choice.

I think the AMD solutions are a non-starter for me. Given some of the transcoding and ripping work I do on the system, i do not want to sacrifice the benefits of the intel CPU for a lower powered amd CPU so i can save on a few watts. The g45 is very efficient chip. As far as performance goes, i have seen multiple articles comparing all three and there is not a meaningful difference as far as im concerned for what I want to do (10% utilization vs 16% etc is not meaningful for me).

And while the G45 started off as a problematic chipset, recent driver updates have fixed a number of issues (of course, they should have been fixed years ago in other chipsets but what you gonna do...) - case in point the new video drivers supposedly (big IF here) fix the 24fps issue (not that i care since my tv doesnt support it). I guess I limit myself wanting an intel cpu but seems that any of these boards will playback HD source smoothly.

Nonetheless, i respect the suggestions and Ill look into again and look into those boards specifically.

Trying to build an HTPC in such a small case has been quite a process to find the right components - and my atx build was much easier and works flawlessly - but when you live in a 1200 sqft manhattan apt, every inch counts and so smaller is the gold standard as far as im concerned. If i find the right ITX case, then what i put inside can always change. I just want to see if it can work well.

I decided to order the case and it will be here tomorrow. I will post some pictures. Once i sort out the other components, ill post the complete build.

I don't know, my new 9300 build in a mATX case seems like a real winner. I guess ITX is cool, but you can get really small with mATX and still retain good functionality.

madpoet said:

I don't know, my new 9300 build in a mATX case seems like a real winner. I guess ITX is cool, but you can get really small with mATX and still retain good functionality.

Click to expand...

Great functionality.

I'd look at stuff from idotpc (.com). They do half 2U (two units in 2U) chassis and have a number of boards that do the kinds of things you're after. My partner is building a HTPC for us and she's going to use idotpc stuff. The chassis she's going to use has enough room in it for a fibre channel HBA and a dual input TV tuner. (We don't need HD stuff since we just have basic cable.)

Try the new SFF case from Sugo - the SG05



or then the Micro case from m-cubed ( it is passive with no fans )



I used the Mini HTPC case from mCubed for my DG45FC build. It works, vista 32 bit + 4GB + 1 TB WD green HDD + 120W picoPSU. A Philips SRM5100 helps control VMC and my Logitech Z-5500.At some point when slimline BluRay drives become cheaper, I will consider putting in one of those. I'll post pics of my build when I get the time ...

madpoet said:

I don't know, my new 9300 build in a mATX case seems like a real winner. I guess ITX is cool, but you can get really small with mATX and still retain good functionality.

Click to expand...

I agree, check this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1373535. A project i'm working on.
Although mATX is not even close to ITX.
But I guess this will be the next project I'll work on: designing a mini ITX case for gamers!

Just finished my first build with this board and so far everything has worked flawlessly. Ill post some pictures later, especially of this Morex case. It is sweeeet and I would highly recommend.

Here is what I built:
Case: Morex T-3500
CPU: Using my old e4300 1.8ghz at stock for now
GPU: Obviously built into the board
RAM: 2GB Crucial Ballistix
PSU: 150W pico style that comes with case
HDD: Using my Macbook's Toshiba 250GB 5400 rpm 2.5" drive that i replaced (for now)
ODD: None at the moment (using my old LG Blu Ray hooked to my media server in the interim) H
Heatsink/Cooler: Dynatron P199 (w/ 80MM fan)


Case: This case is tiny, its like a black mac mini. Its vented on the sides and top which provides excellent airflow in the tiny space. Installation was ok although you really have to think how you will wire everything to provide as clean and clutter free a space as possible. The hard drive and optical drive attach to a plate that you access on the bottom of the case. Install was simple and i have not detected any vibration or noise coming from the HDD. The case also comes with a built in 150W pico style PSU. It provides good connectivity and there are not excess wires to hide. The case has an acrylic-like finish and so really looks nice in the home theater. The power light is a tad bright but not bothersome. While the case seems to keep things relatively cool, the open vents may lead to a system that is not whisper quiet (explained later).

CPU Cooler: This Dynatron is small. The entire cooler is forged out of a copper block and it has kept my CPU running VERY cool. However, the fan that comes mounted to the heatsink is loud. This cooler is meant for a 1U server and the fan is enclosed with a small opening for air to be pulled to cool the CPU. While the fan throttles at start up, it quickly quiets down and is very quiet to start. However, when watching a Blu Ray while ripping a movie, the fan spins up and is noticeable from the couch 12ft away - but not loud enough that while watching a movie, you notice it unless there is a quiet scene. I think the noise has less to do with the case and more to do with the cooler. While it keeps thing cool, i am looking forward to trying the Hiper (all copper) cooler i ordered which should be here monday. Ill report back with more accurate sound measurements once i replace the cooler. Also, note that because this board has "chips" on the bottom, the mounting bracket for this cooler does not sit flush with the board, however this does not seem to affect performance its just an annoyance.

RAM, HDD: Nothing special to report here except that the HD is inaudible. I am using 2x1GB sticks.

INSTALLATION:

So after hearing the multitude of problems people had with BIOS updates, I decided to iflash the BIOS with 087 before installing the OS (the Board came with BIOS 077). This was a breeze and I had and still do not have any problems with the BIOS. I installed VISTA 32 HP and again, this went smoothly. After the install, I loaded all the latest drivers from the intel site except for the Intel ME driver. I still am not sure what it does but it seemed like I did not need it. Up until this point, I was using a DVI to VGA to my samsung 1080p tv but once the video drivers installed, i switched to my HDMI connection. I then loaded all the updates for Vista, including SP1, and once that was finished, I created a "Golden Image" with Acronis. This way, as I start installing programs, should something conflict or go wrong, I can literally start over.

TESTING:

I tested a few Blu Ray disks including Black Hawk Down, Spiderman 3, Simpsons, and Knocked Up. Playback seemed flawless (I am at 60hz) using PDVD 7.3 v3319. No stutters or audio problems. HA looked like it was working as it was checked and greyed out during movie playback. CPU utilization hovered between 15-35%. I only saw it spike above 40% once. The picture looks damn good, as good as my old 2600HD card. I am not sure what I should use to test the power usage (at idle and load) so any suggestions would be appreciated. But clearly this set up will not tax the PSU. Since i only have a 5.1 receiver, I can only confirm that SPDIF works fine. No testing with the HDMI audio. Not sure what the new PDVD release adds for the G45 but I would be curious if anyone notices anything.

As we all the know, this board gets hot. I tested outside the case while running it under some heavy loads. My MB temps were in the mid 40's and the SB was running at 90+. I installed a microcool heatsink (which fits perfectly and even comes with a thermal pad adhesive) on the SB and this dropped the temps to mid 80's. Testing in the case yields slightly higher MB temps but the SB stayed in the mid-80's.

What are you guys using to to test the temps? Right now, i can't find anything to use (the Intel Desktop utilities app is not displaying right and the screen will not show me the meters) and am stuck with using the readings in the BIOS.

ISSUES:
1) My only problem is that the IGMA is not displaying my TVs resolution properly, at least I do not think it is. When i click on the TV Tuner wizard, while the resolution is 1920 X 1080, the options are for 480P (60hz), 720p (60hz), and 1080i (60hz). Not sure why the 1080p resolution is not displaying by default. Not sure how to manually add it but I think I saw something about it in this thread using dtdcalculator. Anyone else have this problem?

Other than that, I am very satisfied with the build and board. The case really makes it for me. I recently bought the Adesso remote that works with VMC. The IR receiver is small and the USB cable is very long allowing you to hide it out of the way. I will be exploring adding this inside the case and creating a small opening for the signal to pass but I probably will end up leaving it the way it is...

Sorry for the long post without pictures but I will add some tonight.

Use HWiNFO32 to display temperatures. You might have to install the Intel Management Engine driver ME, you'll find it on the intel web page for the DG45FC

are you using VMC or what front end?

did you install the auto blu-ray launcher for VMC to get you into PDVD and back in to VMC after?

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/279556.aspx

Now that I have finished my build, I though I would post some pictures with the morex case. I am now using a big 140mm fan and my temps are excellent and this thing is whisper quiet:

Idle: CPU 40C, MB 37.5C, ICH 53.1C, MCH 59C, HardDrive 32C
Playback: CPU 46C, MB 42C, ICH 55C, MCH 59C, HardDrive 39C

Some pics before I started the build




You can see the cut slot for the slimline drive on the bottom




Board with the Dynatron cooler (before i changed to the Hiper) and heatsink on the southbridge


Inside of the case (using the Hiper copper block with the fan removed)




Aerocool 140mm (20mm slim) fan mounted to the case top cover with some double sided tape






All together







Here you can see it in my setup next to the LG BR/HDDVD drive i put in an external case and am using as my default drive temporarily until my replacement slimline sony arrives

That just might work for me. I never thought if making my bluray drive esata external!

I have got a couple of questions about your build since I have the same motherboard and considering the same case... Did you end up going with E8400? Also does that external brick for PS get really hot under use?

The brick does not get hot at all - i call it warm at best. My system averages about 55W under load so this is the reference point.

I decided to keep the E4300 in it for now. The machine has no problem with BR playback (regardless of bitrate) and ripping and transcoding speeds are fine. Obviously there would be a performance gain and heat reduction with the 8400 but system already runs very cool and no need yet for the performance increase...

Well thats good to know. Unfortunately I was unable to find that Morex T-3500 locally here in Vancouver or even have it shipped over the border at a decent price so I am just going to stick with a generic case for now until Sugo SG05 comes out...

Hi dhy8386

Very nice build that I am seriously considering duplicating (DG45FC in T3500). Three months on, are you still happy with this configuration?

If you did it all again would you substitute any part/s?

Cheers.

argo said:

Hi dhy8386

Very nice build that I am seriously considering duplicating (DG45FC in T3500). Three months on, are you still happy with this configuration?

If you did it all again would you substitute any part/s?

Cheers.

Click to expand...

I would highly suggest Zotac's 9300-ITX for an Intel build or Zotac's 8200 series mobo (AMD) instead since they are much more capable IGPs then Intel's. That's me though.

Hi CandE

Yeh the 9300-ITX is nice and if I wanted to make a ITX Gaming PC that is the way I would go (PCI-E16 slot), but the G45 does the job and all reviews describe it as having excellent HD playback plus audio thru HDMI. Plus the Zotac is another half again the price, in my part of the world (admittedly you get a wireless module).

So for a 2D/HD machine, for the price I believe the Intel to be a pretty good proposition.

Both still have BIOS bugs:

Intel: CPU fan control problem (still a problem I think)
Zotac: Resume from Standby via USB

But neither are show stoppers for me. So lowest price wins

Cheers

nm. started another thread...