CNet AVA review

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Misfate

Weaksauce
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AVADirect Custom Gaming PC

In regard to current events:
Service and support said:
If you search for AVADirect on Google, chances are you'll come up with a history of vocal online commenters complaining about its customer service, and accusing AVADirect of gaming the comments at ResellerRatings.com, earning it a favorable score. We can't corroborate much of what's been written about AVADirect online (and some of it is the usual Internet conspiracy theory nonsense), but we did find this thread from the ResellerRatings forum interesting.

If you read through it, you'll find that the staff and forum administrator of ResellerRatings make a well-sourced, well-reasoned argument that AVADirect is perhaps not as bad as the online community suggests. On the second page of that thread, the forum moderator "nomaxim" also points out that while AVADirect's customer service is generally well regarded, according to the ResellerRatings scores, there does seem to be a legitimate trend of dissatisfaction with AVADirect's return policies. If AVADirect is manipulating the comments on ResellerRatings, it apparently has an unfavorable opinion of its product return department.

We're sure every vendor has its customer service horror stories. In fact, according to a recent Forrester Research report, the entire PC industry falls behind such customer service darlings as airlines and credit card companies in overall customer experience ratings. This doesn't mean that AVADirect should feel free to treat customers poorly (we're also not suggesting that it necessarily does), nor does it mean that no PC vendors provide consistently exceptional customer service. But the Forrester report does suggest that, in general, customers don't love the way they're treated by the PC industry. If AVADirect has room to improve some aspects of its customer service experience, it's certainly not alone.
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That research report they mention is a little misleading,since they concentrate on the performance of the big mass market players like Dell and HP,and not boutique builders.
I doubt very much that the average customer will get anything near the overclock they did for that review,10 to 20% is usually the highest they offer,and they stated on their own forum that i7 cpu's are poor overclockers.
 
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Rich Brown should do more research. Some of it is not "the usual Internet conspiracy theory nonsense". I would like to tell him about how AVA wired my pcs case power on switch to a lightbulb jumper and used oversized sata cables I needed to cut out with scissors.
 
schneider said:
Rich Brown should do more research. Some of it is not "the usual Internet conspiracy theory nonsense". I would like to tell him about how AVA wired my pcs case power on switch to a lightbulb jumper and used oversized sata cables I needed to cut out with scissors.
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Research?We're talking about C-Net here,remember,their idea of research is finding out how they can keep their advertisers happy so they can get more cash from them.:D
 
I, or AVADirect, have never stated that Core i7 processors are "poor overclockers".

I believe this is the thread pa2 is refering to:

"Hello Thorndike,

1. The CPU overclock promotion is still available, though we do not suggest overclocking the 920, as it is meant to run at stock speeds and could cause instability in your machine.

2. When using freight shipping, we place air-filled bags inside of the system to reduce the change of components wiggling loose. The system is also strapped to a pallet, to ensure it does not move much during shipment.

3. Yes, you are definitely welcome to send in your system, while under warranty, to AVADirect for future upgrades.tune-ups.

I like your configuration overall, but I do have some suggestions that I believe you will benefit from. Please email me at [email protected] , and I will work with you to create the perfect rig for your needs. :)"

Thorndike was a close client of mine that I was working with for a week, prior to him posting on that thread. The only reason I said "we", as in me and the R&D guy Matt, do not recommend overclocking the 920 is because Thorndike was going to use this system as a DAW. Those who know DAW's well, know that whatever you can do to lower unnecessary noise is crucial to a well-built DAW. Overclocking would increase fan speeds to a standard, and in return create excessive noise.

-We offer the 10-20% overclock as a "mild" option for free

-We charge for extreme overclocking of 20-50%.
 
It would have avoided any confusion and of course the accusations that AVA is stating that the 920's are poor overclockers by adding this statement:

"1. The CPU overclock promotion is still available, though we do not suggest overclocking the 920, as it is meant to run at stock speeds and could cause instability in your machine."

to something that would indicate you're talking about a specific type of computer, like:

"1. The CPU overclock promotion is still available, though we do not suggest overclocking the 920, as it is meant to run at stock speeds and could cause instability in your machine that you're going to be using as a DAW machine."

Or something along those lines...

If you go back and read it from an outside point of view it looks as if you're saying that 920's are poor overclockers. Written in the right context it would have made as much sense to all of us than it does you when the post was written.

One question though....what is a DAW machine? Just curious.
 
"1. The CPU overclock promotion is still available, though we do not suggest overclocking the 920, as it is meant to run at stock speeds and could cause instability in your machine."

I don't see where this statement pertains to fan noise.Especially the "instability" remark.And if Intel had really meant the 920 to run at stock speed,they certainly could have designed it not to support overclocking.Instead the reverse is true.

"-We charge for extreme overclocking of 20-50%."

20 to 50% is pretty vague,considering you're charging a flat $100 for the service.There are other builders that guarantee a specified overclock at varying prices,the higher the overclock,the higher the charge.
 
michael.pa2 said:
"1. The CPU overclock promotion is still available, though we do not suggest overclocking the 920, as it is meant to run at stock speeds and could cause instability in your machine."

I don't see where this statement pertains to fan noise.Especially the "instability" remark.And if Intel had really meant the 920 to run at stock speed,they certainly could have designed it not to support overclocking.Instead the reverse is true.

"-We charge for extreme overclocking of 20-50%."

20 to 50% is pretty vague,considering you're charging a flat $100 for the service.There are other builders that guarantee a specified overclock at varying prices,the higher the overclock,the higher the charge.
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Overclocking your cpu obviously creates more heat, and your fan will ramp up more often/to higher speeds as a result. More noise. Anything with instability is clearly meant to cover their ass; no company wants to encourage overclocking then face angry customers with a bum chip.

Also, 20-50% I'm guessing has such a range because of the wide range of clock range chips have, due to steppings/revisions/batches. Sounds more like a $100 fee for a best-effort overclock, with a likely minimum of 20%.
 
Yes, a DAW is indeed a Digital Audio Workstation.

I do agree that my forum statement can be taken the wrong way. That’s why I dropped a post to explain. :)

For our extreme overclock, there is one particular combination of hardware that I can guarantee at least a full 1GHZ overclock:

-ASUS P6T Deluxe V2

-Core i7 920

-Thermalright Ultra 120

-Corsair Dominator RAM (1333Mz-1600Mhz)


We used all three for our review system for CNET and got 3.8Ghz. I'm in the process of trying this combination in several different cases, to try and push it even farther.

Don't you think that if Intel created the core i7 920 with overclocking in mind that they would have left the CPU multiplyer unlocked? Hence why they left the 965 unlocked, since it was meant for overclocking. Intel released earlier this year that they left the memory and QPI unlocked for slight overclocks, but was not intended for extremes.
 
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So it's clear, you guys used the CoolIT Domino ALC 1000 liquid cooler in the review box, not the Thermalright Ultra 120, which is a large CPU fan/heatsink.
 
That's correct, the Coolit Domino was used in our review for CNET. The Thermalright Ultra 120 is what I suggest to those who would rather stick to air cooling , as opposed to liquid.
 
You know Overdrive PC back in the day had very close to a solid 10 reseller rating, and that was still with the rare bad review. Both AVA and OPC are/were small companies, there is no excuse for such poor reviews so consistently.
 
Not for nothing, and not specifically anything against AVA, but any review that is not done anominously (like [H] used to do) is bullschizzle.

Anybody can pour over a machine for a coule weeks and then send it out, knowing full well it is superbly made and tested.........to look and perform perfectly.

Buying one "off the rack" is completely different and reflects the true customer experience.

c|net is not on my choice of reviewers either.

Also about overclocking, if you expect me to believe that the i7 920 is 'locked" at 20 multiplier so no one overclocks it to an "extreme" you must be talking to a bunch of noobs.......come on..........the multipliers are unlocked on the expensive models, period.
You guys at AVA.....you clocked your 920 to 3.8, right??? Is that "minor"???
My 920 is at 4.1 right now and could go alot higher. The guys at EVGA have one at 5.1 GHz on water.
That is a really bad answer, and insulting to any enthusiast forum.

Perhaps I would buy it if you just said you don't care to overclock to extremes on consumer models because you can't guarantee complete stability, that's more than appropiate. Trying to put it on Intel is just inappropiate to say on a forum where overclocking is the main goal.
 
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Yes, you are correct. We do not do super-high overclocks because of the stability issues. I also never stated that 3.8 Ghz was "minor", as you can see:

"For our extreme overclock, there is one particular combination of hardware that I can guarantee at least a full 1GHZ overclock:"

I was not putting anything on Intel. I am strictly going by what Intel reps have told me time and time again. The 920 & 940 core i7's were not created with overclocking in mind, but you sure can push them to the limit. The only line of Intel processors that truly was built for overclocking are extreme processors. Now, I'm not saying the Intel doesn't seem to leave it open to overclock, but then why lock the multiplier at all, regardless of where they lock it?

By most expensive, you mean the 965 right? That's the only core i7 I know that has an unlocked multiplier.
 
I know there's been a lot of complaints and concerns regarding AVA's practices in the past year. I've seen the posts here during that time.

I purchased an AVA machine shortly after [H] did their review and before shit hit the fan. At the time I wasn't in the mood for building another and thought I'd give them a shot. I've had the machine now over a year and can report zero problems with this machine. (knock wood) I've been quite happy with the machine.

[email protected], Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme, Asus P5K3 Deluxe, Corsair ddr3 4GB (4 x 1) (9-9-9-24), eVGA 9800 GTX, SB X-Fi Xtreme, Seagate 500GB Barracuda, Coolermaster CM 690, Seasonic 650w, Vista Home P x64

I can't say I hold a cnet review in high regard but coupled with my personal experience I'd say it's fair and a pretty good review actually. They covered the bases pretty well including complaints. So congrats to AVA on the review.

Perhaps AVA can clean up their image. I would suggest a model which evga practices. Word spread fast on their support policies and as a result their business has done well.
 
AVAdirect_Joe said:
Yes, you are correct. We do not do super-high overclocks because of the stability issues. I also never stated that 3.8 Ghz was "minor", as you can see:

"For our extreme overclock, there is one particular combination of hardware that I can guarantee at least a full 1GHZ overclock:"

I was not putting anything on Intel. I am strictly going by what Intel reps have told me time and time again. The 920 & 940 core i7's were not created with overclocking in mind, but you sure can push them to the limit. The only line of Intel processors that truly was built for overclocking are extreme processors. Now, I'm not saying the Intel doesn't seem to leave it open to overclock, but then why lock the multiplier at all, regardless of where they lock it?

By most expensive, you mean the 965 right? That's the only core i7 I know that has an unlocked multiplier.
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Yes, for the current models, the i7 965 is the "extreme edition".
At 3.2 GHz it is not what I'd consider extreme, not for $1000.
And yes, I understand the concept of "unlocked multipliers". Intel generally unlocks only their most expensive chip of the set.......that said:
I can take my $285 920 well into the 4 GHz range without a problem.
I truely don't understand your continued comment about Intel not designing these chips for OCs.............they can be pushed quite far and represent the top of the Intel line.
The newly released 920 D0 revision is quite capable of 4.2-4.4 GHz OCs.
 
Wow, you have taken the 920 to 4Ghz?

Man, that's pretty impressive, but can you run it with Prime 95 for two days and post some results? I'm interested to see some performance specs..
 
I have run my box for 24 hours with 8 instances of Orthos, it's as stable as they get.

My maximum temp was 70C.

I watercool and use a HeatKiller 3.0.

I ain't making this up.

Here's a screen at 4.1 after 24 hours........
Picture002.jpg


This is the dealio:
DSC_0237.jpg


naked:
Picture004.jpg


Yes, I know I use TWO SLi bridges. They work just fine that way.
I don't have any screens of my 4.2 OC......I thought I had it somewhere.....I'll get you some though.
So, you see the 920 is capable of plenty.
Oh, yes, the version of HardwareMonitor incorrectly reads my 12V leads. They are a nice steady 12.08V in the BIOS.
 
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I just want to add that I also bought my Ava computer about a year ago (4/4/2008) with these specs:

INTEL, Core™ 2 Duo E8400 Dual-Core, 3.0GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 6MB L2 Cache, 45nm, 65W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
SERVICE, Do Not Overclock
ABIT, IP35 Pro, LGA775, Intel P35, 1333MHz FSB, DDR2-800 8GB/4, PCIe x16 /2, SATA 3.0 Gbit/s RAID /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, ATX, Retail
G.SKILL, 4GB (2 x 2GB) PC2-6400 DDR2 800MHz CL5 (5-5-5-15) SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
eVGA, e-GeForce® 9800 GTX 675MHz, 512MB GDDR3 2200MHz, PCIe x16 SLI, DVI /2, HDTV/S-Video Out, Retail
SEAGATE, 320GB Barracuda 7200.10, SATA II 300MB/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
SEAGATE, 500GB Barracuda 7200.10, SATA II 300MB/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
RAID, No RAID, Independent HDD Drives
MITSUMI, Black Internal 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy Drive
LITE-ON, LH-20A1S Black/White 20x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner, SATA, Retail
LITE-ON, LH-20A1S Black/White 20x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner, SATA, Retail
COOLERMASTER, CM Stacker 830 Evolution (RC-830) Black Tower Case, EATX, No PSU, Aluminum, SLI Certified
CASE FAN, NON-LED, Fans Maximum Package, Low Noise
CUSTOM WIRING, Standard Wiring with Round Cables
PC POWER & COOLING, Silencer® 750W Quad (Black) Power Supply, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, Single +12V Rail, Quad SLI Ready
MICROSOFT, Windows XP Professional Edition w/ SP2c, OEM
SERVICE, OEM System Recovery (both secure HDD partition and bootable CD/DVD)
SERVICE, System Binder
GAMING PC, Gold Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts & Lifetime Labor Warranty, Express/Priority Service)
SERVICE, Standard Shipping (UPS, DHL, or Fedex


and my first thread was here:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1301391

The picture links are now dead but I just wanted to update everyone seeing how there have been several people unhappy with AVA.

After a year, I have had zero issues whatsoever, no bluescreens nothing out of the ordinary. I have been perfectly pleased with my computer thus far. I primarily use my computer for gaming, Video editing, and photography. I know my experience may differ from others recently but like Mister Natural posted above I wanted to say there are some people who have had no problems.

So far so good with my AVA build, if anything changes I will let y'all know.
 
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