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Hello
I've been here lurking for some months looking into SFF computing, I'm starting a computer integration business in my country (in Ecuador)
I've looked into many options and tested a fair bit of hardware (i'm a hobbiist too) in the way.
There are many options on ITX hardware now, I hope this thread can help newbs (like me) to figure out the best way to go for SFF systems.
On the bottom end of "just enough" computing you have the Intel Atom and it's spinoffs.
I've tested D945GCLF/2 systems and they are more than bearable for day to day use, media playback (up to 720p, depending on codecs, etc)
This is my setup
- Apex MI-100 case (250w psu) $58
- 2Gb Corsair Value Select $24
- D945GCLF/2 $64/$89
- Western Digital wd10eacs 1TB green hdd $89
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total $304/$324
It's as cheap as you can go I think, the PC will do fine with Windows XP/Desktop Linux, it makes a fine SDTV/Xvid media player with XBMC linux specially, on the bad side, it wont do HD youtube on linux at least, and the fan on the mainboard is a tad noisy, and no integrated wifi.
On a side note this card:
- PNY VCG84512SPEB GeForce 8400GS $59-- $39 (after rebate) fits just fine and is the way to go for 1080p playback under XBMC linux with VDPAU, it just works, it's amazing.
The next logical step would be an ION board, should prove pretty similar to the setup I mentioned but it's more integrated and with a better cooling design, let's compare both in price:
- Intel D945GCLF + 8400GS PCI = $128/$108 (with rebate)
- Zotac IONITX-B-E =$149.9
- Zotac IONITX-C-U) =$169.9 (90W PSU and power brick included)
- Intel D945GCLF2 + 8400GS PCI = $148/$128 (with rebate)
Can't find any offers on the dual core ION boards yet, best value seems to be D945GCLF2+8400GS for media playback so far imho.Don't know if the zotac includes built in WiFi.
As for form fator the Zotac boards are better, the complete 1080p solution can fit on cases without any expansion slots (like an APEX MW-100 instead of the MI-100 I mentioned)
It's interesting to note the pricing range considering the options, from $304, if you go dual core it's $324, if you go for the PCI 8400GS it can go up to $380/$390. It's fair to say you can get a decent day-to-day computer/full-hd HTPC for $400 if you find the right parts.
On the good side you can go with mainboards without an embedded processor, I wont touch the AMD platform since I don't know much about it
On this price range/form factor there are many more options where you can go, It just depends on what you gonna do, and prices are very competitive.
Motherboards:
- ZOTAC NF630I-D-E $59.99
- ZOTAC NF630I-F-E $79.99
- ZOTAC GF9300-D-E $139.99
- Intel BOXDG45FC $114
- Intel BOXDG41MJ $87.99
- Intel BOXDQ45EK $129.99
From my experience the nvidia powered boards produce a better experience on Windows Vista with Aero on, but the DG45FC does have some interesting features and working video acceleration on the chipset (that may or not be important depending on the processor you use), I'm making this post on a day to day user based point of view, but it's interesting to point it has better raid feautres too which might be important, and you could offload decoding of 1080p streams to the same PCI video card posted before.
So it's all up to what you want to do, I would sum it up this way
- DG45FC: great all around performer good for office computing and HTPC, not good 3d performance, good features
- NF630i: same as before, less features (raid, etc), integrated wifi, better 3d performance, limited expandability (you can get a PCIe-X1 9500gt for 1080p accelerated playback but couldn't find it)
- GF9300: great 3D performance for the size, good overall performance, buit-in wifi, good expandability (you can use any discrete GPU you want)
I went for a GF9300 for my main rig, couldn't resist the temptation, any of these boards would give you a better computing experience than the atom boards at expense of sometimes higher power consumption and heat output, also a relatively higher price.
In the proccessor deprtment, it gets even more complicated because there are a lot of options, from low end celerons to high power quads, it would depend on you power supply and cooling ability.
In a small enclosure as the one I posted before, I wouldn't push it beyond a Core2Duo, a Pentium Dual core such as the e5x00 series or upcoming e6x00 series might be even better, I had to add a side fan with an e7400 so my temps would be acceptable on the Apex MI-100 case.
I'd go all the way for 45nm processors, dual core at most, and the option list is huge:
- E5200 = $69.99
- E5300 = $79.99
- E5400 = $89.99
- E6300 = $91.99
- E7400 = $114.99
- E7500 = $139.99
- E8400= $169.99
- E8500= $189.99
- E8600= $269.99
So there is a $200 price spread from cheapest to most expensive here and not even mentioning the quads. I think the E6300 and E7400 are the sweet spot on the price/performance equation, and E8400 will be faster but not by that much and If you have a good case with good airflow you might be able to push the E7400 beyond that with a little fiddling (on the Zotac board)
You can have more RAM too, it might be worth spending on better RAM on these boards than on an atom, In my country only corsair has good representatives, so I'd go for XMS2 memory at $46 for 4GB it's great.
I just finished testing my new rig, I've been reading other users experience here and I think it's about as good as I could go for ITX based system, the specs are the following:
- Silverstone SG05B case $90
- GeminII cooler $42
- 4Gb of corsair value select i had lying around $40
- Intel E8400 $169
- Silversone SOD01 slim DVD $90
- eVga GTS250 $149.99
- Western Digital wd10eacs 1TB green hdd $89
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $670 some cuts and bledding and 14000 points in 3dmark 06 good temps (55c - 59cunder load seem fine considering the cooling problems I've had on other PCs)
I'm very happy with the system, it's not as small as other ITX based computers but it performs really nice, I have amazon prime so shipping was "free"
It's interesting to note that from the basic PC to the "best" ITX system I have used it's a $370 difference at most, it's a small difference (could be a high end graphics card), but as everything it's relative, you could have 2 very cheap computers for the same price you could get one of the "high end" ones.
I hope this post is helpful for other newbs like me looking for information
I've been here lurking for some months looking into SFF computing, I'm starting a computer integration business in my country (in Ecuador)
I've looked into many options and tested a fair bit of hardware (i'm a hobbiist too) in the way.
There are many options on ITX hardware now, I hope this thread can help newbs (like me) to figure out the best way to go for SFF systems.
On the bottom end of "just enough" computing you have the Intel Atom and it's spinoffs.
I've tested D945GCLF/2 systems and they are more than bearable for day to day use, media playback (up to 720p, depending on codecs, etc)
This is my setup
- Apex MI-100 case (250w psu) $58
- 2Gb Corsair Value Select $24
- D945GCLF/2 $64/$89
- Western Digital wd10eacs 1TB green hdd $89
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total $304/$324
It's as cheap as you can go I think, the PC will do fine with Windows XP/Desktop Linux, it makes a fine SDTV/Xvid media player with XBMC linux specially, on the bad side, it wont do HD youtube on linux at least, and the fan on the mainboard is a tad noisy, and no integrated wifi.
On a side note this card:
- PNY VCG84512SPEB GeForce 8400GS $59-- $39 (after rebate) fits just fine and is the way to go for 1080p playback under XBMC linux with VDPAU, it just works, it's amazing.
The next logical step would be an ION board, should prove pretty similar to the setup I mentioned but it's more integrated and with a better cooling design, let's compare both in price:
- Intel D945GCLF + 8400GS PCI = $128/$108 (with rebate)
- Zotac IONITX-B-E =$149.9
- Zotac IONITX-C-U) =$169.9 (90W PSU and power brick included)
- Intel D945GCLF2 + 8400GS PCI = $148/$128 (with rebate)
Can't find any offers on the dual core ION boards yet, best value seems to be D945GCLF2+8400GS for media playback so far imho.Don't know if the zotac includes built in WiFi.
As for form fator the Zotac boards are better, the complete 1080p solution can fit on cases without any expansion slots (like an APEX MW-100 instead of the MI-100 I mentioned)
It's interesting to note the pricing range considering the options, from $304, if you go dual core it's $324, if you go for the PCI 8400GS it can go up to $380/$390. It's fair to say you can get a decent day-to-day computer/full-hd HTPC for $400 if you find the right parts.
On the good side you can go with mainboards without an embedded processor, I wont touch the AMD platform since I don't know much about it
On this price range/form factor there are many more options where you can go, It just depends on what you gonna do, and prices are very competitive.
Motherboards:
- ZOTAC NF630I-D-E $59.99
- ZOTAC NF630I-F-E $79.99
- ZOTAC GF9300-D-E $139.99
- Intel BOXDG45FC $114
- Intel BOXDG41MJ $87.99
- Intel BOXDQ45EK $129.99
From my experience the nvidia powered boards produce a better experience on Windows Vista with Aero on, but the DG45FC does have some interesting features and working video acceleration on the chipset (that may or not be important depending on the processor you use), I'm making this post on a day to day user based point of view, but it's interesting to point it has better raid feautres too which might be important, and you could offload decoding of 1080p streams to the same PCI video card posted before.
So it's all up to what you want to do, I would sum it up this way
- DG45FC: great all around performer good for office computing and HTPC, not good 3d performance, good features
- NF630i: same as before, less features (raid, etc), integrated wifi, better 3d performance, limited expandability (you can get a PCIe-X1 9500gt for 1080p accelerated playback but couldn't find it)
- GF9300: great 3D performance for the size, good overall performance, buit-in wifi, good expandability (you can use any discrete GPU you want)
I went for a GF9300 for my main rig, couldn't resist the temptation, any of these boards would give you a better computing experience than the atom boards at expense of sometimes higher power consumption and heat output, also a relatively higher price.
In the proccessor deprtment, it gets even more complicated because there are a lot of options, from low end celerons to high power quads, it would depend on you power supply and cooling ability.
In a small enclosure as the one I posted before, I wouldn't push it beyond a Core2Duo, a Pentium Dual core such as the e5x00 series or upcoming e6x00 series might be even better, I had to add a side fan with an e7400 so my temps would be acceptable on the Apex MI-100 case.
I'd go all the way for 45nm processors, dual core at most, and the option list is huge:
- E5200 = $69.99
- E5300 = $79.99
- E5400 = $89.99
- E6300 = $91.99
- E7400 = $114.99
- E7500 = $139.99
- E8400= $169.99
- E8500= $189.99
- E8600= $269.99
So there is a $200 price spread from cheapest to most expensive here and not even mentioning the quads. I think the E6300 and E7400 are the sweet spot on the price/performance equation, and E8400 will be faster but not by that much and If you have a good case with good airflow you might be able to push the E7400 beyond that with a little fiddling (on the Zotac board)
You can have more RAM too, it might be worth spending on better RAM on these boards than on an atom, In my country only corsair has good representatives, so I'd go for XMS2 memory at $46 for 4GB it's great.
I just finished testing my new rig, I've been reading other users experience here and I think it's about as good as I could go for ITX based system, the specs are the following:
- Silverstone SG05B case $90
- GeminII cooler $42
- 4Gb of corsair value select i had lying around $40
- Intel E8400 $169
- Silversone SOD01 slim DVD $90
- eVga GTS250 $149.99
- Western Digital wd10eacs 1TB green hdd $89
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $670 some cuts and bledding and 14000 points in 3dmark 06 good temps (55c - 59cunder load seem fine considering the cooling problems I've had on other PCs)
I'm very happy with the system, it's not as small as other ITX based computers but it performs really nice, I have amazon prime so shipping was "free"
It's interesting to note that from the basic PC to the "best" ITX system I have used it's a $370 difference at most, it's a small difference (could be a high end graphics card), but as everything it's relative, you could have 2 very cheap computers for the same price you could get one of the "high end" ones.
I hope this post is helpful for other newbs like me looking for information
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