Yes, Another Car Radiator Thread--56K Warning!

After starting to get bored, I started looking for a new project--a PC cooling type of project. I was going to do the copper pipe in the crawlspace along with some other possibilities. But after reading threads about the use of car radiators--I decided to check it out for myself. My initial participation started in this thread--Post #131:

using car radiators...why not?

Seems that the biggest complaint that I found was--car radiators are made of aluminum. Ok, a lot of them are, but not all of them.....

So on with the show:

The PC water cooling system is currently setup to cool 3 PCs (cpu & nb) running 100% cpu power crunching for WCG-cure cancer. At the moment, only 1 PC is connected to this system--the others will follow....

On May 20, 2008 I purchased the below Car Radiator.....with a plan:







Add a Mag Drive 9.5 pump:






Next add the Famous 55gallon Blue Barrel:



A bit of PVC--and the plan starts coming together....

I decided to offer each PC its own incoming water, so I figured that the easiest way to do that would be to create a manifold:

I decided to make the manifold for 3 PCs, but left the extra PVC space in order to add more later--if necessary.


The manifold is installed with 1" tubing running down through the floor into a crawlspace:

Yes, some "wire-management" is in order....


In the crawlspace it connects back to 1" PVC pipe:



I decided after-the-fact to add drains to the system at the lowest point:



It then runs a few feet up and into an Out-building:



I'll worry about covering things up later:



Once the radiator arrived, I had to check the fit of its new home:



Almost Perfect:

In order to prevent the use of mixed metals (copper and aluminum) I needed a copper radiator! So, I found one! (Most are made of aluminum these days).












For excellent cooling ability and flow--I wanted a triple core (3 rows) radiator:





3 rows of nice flat tubing. (Flat tubing offers much greater surface contact and much less warm flow bypass!)


Yeah, Baby!

So,......How to connect the 1 5/16" inlet and 1 9/16" outlet to my 1" PVC? Well, here ya go--1 1/4" and 1 1/2" tubing:



Next, I had to figure out how to mount it in place. So, I just attached some 1"x4" pieces to the out-building frame work:



Cut a few notches:





Then screwed the radiator to the frame work via the radiator mounting holes:





Might work ok as it is for a Passive radiator, but I wanted more options.

Power Options! With summer upon us, things are warming up and with a radiator this size--a little bit of air movement will go a long way.
So, in order to restrict air movement to only through the radiator--I needed to make a shroud and seal things up. (Please ignore the a/c filter--I didn't end up using it):



After all of these "projects" you can see that I still have all my toes......well, on one foot at least!





Shroud built, door and radiator sealed--Time to add some Power!



The barrel/pump plumbing above has been changed.





On high these fans will use ~45 watts each. On medium= ~36 w, and on low= ~25w. Not bad at all for the cooling they will offer.






A little bit of foam insulation goes a long way.....



None needed on this one though--nice tight fit:




Next its time to finish up the plumbing and get the radiator hooked up!

Plumbing to the radiator inlet:



Radiator outlet:

Man, that was E-A-S-Y!



Now the plumbing to and from the 55 gal. barrel--has to be sealed for a closed loop:

The red handled ball valve is for priming the pump:



Into the barrel from the PCs:



And then back out of the barrel to the pump:





I originally put the pump on top of the barrel. It worked that way, but made priming it a real PITA! So, I dropped it down to the floor. Now I use the ball valve to prime the pump, and once the siphon is created--gravity helps feed it.




Time to finish up the main plumbing!

Plumbing comes out of the pump (pic above) up and over to the radiator inlet:





Out of the radiator outlet and down through the floor:



Time to fill'er up!



Then put on the trusty radiator cap:





Add the air filter to the outside:



Put the screen back on:



And she's ready to rip!

So, I filled it up with this hard tap water and let the system flush for a few days. Ran into a few minor problems and fixed them.
Now, on June 2, 2008, I have a Q9450 OCed to 3.4 on a GA-G31M-S2L running 100% on Boinc and cpu temps of 46-50C (ambient outside is 30C/85F) and fans on low. I believe that the bottleneck to better temps are A) the current ambient and B) the Apogee GT and MCW30 water blocks.

No Problem for me though.....I will be more than happy crunching at those temps and removing all that heat--OUT--of this room. The cost savings on the A/C should help pay for the cost of running the pump and 2 fans. Good Deal!

When I replace the tap with distilled the temps should get better.

First PC hooked up to the manifold:



This PC will have an open-case home soon:


I left extra tubing in order to not waste any more than necessary when I finished and located this PC's home:










Ambient outside right now is ~67F/19.4C. The Q9450 is still @ 3.4 running 100% on Boinc and temps are: 40, 39, 39, 39.


I'm curious to see what happens when I hook up the next PC.

As a comparison, here's the state of 2 PCs when I woke up today at ~9am:

E8400 @ 4.0(dual core)
P5E-VM HDMI
Swifty 120.2 w/ 74cfm push/pull fans
Apogee GT and MCW30
MCP350
Single bay res

Ambient: A/C on 23.3C/74F, Thermometer reading 25.5C/78F
43, 46C






Q9450 @ 3.4(quad core)
GA-G31M-S2L
Car Rad setup

Ambient: PC weather says ~20C/68F
39, 37, 38, 38C





Again, I'm really curious to see how things go when I hook up the next PC. Winter should be fun!

Also, these chips/mbs will be swapped out. The Q9450 and GA-G31M-S2L are both new to me, so I figured that I would check them out together before putting the PCs in their long-term setups.

The PCs are currently setup the same cpu/mb-wise. I'll swap them around later. I wanted to keep them the same while I checked out adding the second pc to the system.

Here's a couple of screenshots--ambient temps outside are ~26C/79F, fans on high:

Another change that I may make is increasing the pipe size from the blue barrel down to the pump. Its 1" now, but I'm thinking of increasing it to 2" to act as somewhat of a pump reservior. The pump is getting plenty of flow, but it just seems like maybe it would benefit from more available water. However, in a closed loop, I cannot really sort out in my head whether or not there would actually be a benefit. Here's another pic from above:



Add 2" (or even 3") pvc after the ball valve/elbow down to the pump. Seems like more water would be available for the pump, but that water has to be replaced and it would be drawn through the 1" from the barrel. So, I am wondering if I can do as I'm thinking? Or, If I should replace everything with larger pipe completely--from the barrel to the pump? Hoping that makes sense!


Suppose to get up to 34C/93F today, so the real test will begin.......

Ok, just a quick update......apologies for the poor quality pix. As I posted earlier, I went to Lowes yesterday and got the stuff to change the plumbing from the barrel to the pump. That's done, but I had an issue that may keep me shut down for a week or so..... I'll know in a few hrs, I guess....

Anyway, First:


WoWZa! Now that's a Union!





Seems that life would not be complete if we could just get a well thought out list together, head to the hardware store and get everything we need. But I guess that would take a lot of the fun out of everything, huh? So, I got my list together, headed to Lowes got everything for the electrical, the plumbing and a couple of other unrelated projects--and actually did pretty good! I got one pvc part wrong--got a female thread instead of the male. Its the piece that screws into the pump intake. So, after scrounging around in my extra parts bins--I found this:





Eureeka! Got one! The show is back on the road!



But then ya know life is never that easy.....never. So, I head out there today to go a head and get this plumbing done, and get the show back on the road. I like to build pvc from both ends and then connect in the middle somewhere--just seems like the easiest route to me. So, one of the first things I do is screw that brass fitting into the pump intake. 3 or 4 turns and: C-R-A-C-K-!!!!!. It cracked the Frickin' threaded housing right down the side. Jeezus! Shat! Definitely not Happy about it. Started scratchin' my head wonderin' what the Heck I was gunna do...... I don't have any more tubing clamps that size. So, I thought: Ok, silicone. See if there's any tubing that will fit snuggly around that part and tie wraps. So, ultimately, that is what I did:






No, I'm not expecting it to work long term. I can pick up some clamps on my way home this weekend. But I am hoping it will hold for a few days. The tubing is the leftover 1 1/4" from the rad inlet tubing. It fits nice and snug. If I had some actual screw clamps--I'd have a bit more faith, but I'm doubting at the moment!

I guess the part that makes this so ridiculous is that I actually have the piece that I need. No, not the exact part, but the fix the screw-up part: a double threaded 3/4" pvc nipple. Shat! I didn't see it when I was scrounging around, but it jumped right out at me after I broke the frickin' housing. Sheesh. Ho-hum. I guess things were going too well initially. I'm going to give it a few hours for the silicone to set and then see about firing it up.


So, on with the upgrade:

Here's a pic of the new 2" pipe--not inserted into the barrel:

The part that goes into the barrel is 1 1/4", the rest is 2".



I added a couple of air bleeder holes so that only X-amount of air can get trapped in the barrel. Might make priming the pump a bit of a pain at times, but I know how to deal with that, so life is Good!



Added a different pump priming port:


Now that's an Opening!:

Yep, still got the toes on that foot......


So, this is how the system looks now:



Going to see how much a new pump cover will cost...... EDIT: $12.98 shipped. I guess I can live with that.

2nd EDIT: I fired it up about an hr ago. Yes, there's a leak, of course. I have the pump in a dish tub. Not sure whether it will shut things down or not. A little leak can add up to a lot of water over time, so we'll see.....going to check it again in another hr or so and see what the situation is........

3rd EDIT: Ok, I checked it a few minutes ago. Really hard to tell what the deal is going to be. I'll be gone 14-15 hrs tomorrow, so I guess I'll have to check it before I leave, get the built up water out and make a judgement call. I don't mind the tub filling up--I just don't want it overflowing onto the wood floor. I think it will be ok, but we'll see.....The PCs are up and running--have been since I turned the system back on.....fingers-crossed.....

Just a quick video to show the actual water flow via trapped air through the tubing on this setup. This setup still has 2 PCs hooked up and has been running fine. Temps are still maintaining as previously posted. Q9450 @ 3.45 and an E8400 @ 4.1.

The setup does NOT run like it is shown in the video. The air is just to give a visual of the water flow. For some reason when I open gate valve #3--air starts traveling through the system. Gate valve #3 is just looped right back to the #3 output on the manifold--so I don't really understand why it does this, but it does.... Anyway, the flow in the video is actually reduced--because gate valve #3 is open--allowing a path of least resistance and all that. When I close gate valve #3--the flow to both PCs increases noticeably, so look at the video as less or reduced flow from what is normally going through the tubing:

Its a 1 min video that shows flow through both PCs. Audio has NO valve:




Again, the system does not run with air--that's just to show the flow for the video....

Just wanted to add an update/more info.

I have 2 crunchers on this system: Q9450 @ 3.6 and Q9450 @ 3.5. I am waiting on some more ram and then I am hoping the 2nd Q will go to 3.6. This Ballistix garbage is just that: garbage.

Got the Killawatt out:

Pump=55watts

Fans:
Low=25watts
Medium=36-37 watts
High=50watts

That's x2, of course.

Here's a current screenshot of the Q at 3.6--fans on Low=50watts:



The temps drop 3-4C by switching the fans up to Medium(=36-37watts x2).

These rigs are crunching WCG 24/7 and 1 rig has an 8800GT crunching F@H. The 8800GT is not currently WCed. I bought a block, but it arrived cracked, so its on rma at the moment. Once I get a useable block--the GT is being added to this system.


I've decided to modify my manifold and add a 2nd car radiator--a smaller one. This one will go inside here and be used during the cooler/winter months. I will deign the manifold so that I will only need to turn 1-3 ball valves (not sure yet) in order to switch from one rad to the other. This will give me convenient seasonal control: I can pump all the heat outside during warmer months (helping with the A/C) and pump all the heat inside during the cooler months (helping with the heat). :up: And I will be able to do this with the turn of a valve or 3.

Expected Cost Guesstimate:

Car Rad: Less than $100 Shipped
Pump: ~$100, if needed--I may figure out a work-around.
PVC: $20, probably less
Gate Valves x3: ~$27, should have already been incorporated.

No doubt there will be some misc costs--nothing major though. I've put a little thought into this already, but have not sat down to think it through yet. I really enjoy pumping all the heat outside! Plus the dual fans on Low really help cool the out-building! So, I might as well set things up to help with the heating bill this winter--instead of just heating the neighborhood! Currently using about 500watts on these crunchers--might as well keep it inside when its cold out!
Also, by setting this up for convenience (turn some ball valves) I will still be able to play with it all winter and see how the low outside temps effect things!

I'll update this when I get it done--Yes, with Pictures!


--------------------------------

Qiuck update:

Added another cruncher, so now there are 2x Q9450 and 1x Q6600 on this WCing system--all @ 3.57. Fans on low. Weather has been much cooler than normal here. High of ~73F/23C yesterday and ~76F/24C today, So I am going to have to wait a bit for warmer weather in order to post "Warm-Weather SS". Here are some from Cooler Weather:

Q9450:



Q9450:



Q6600:




The WBs arrive today, so I will be adding 3x G92 GPUs to the system over the next week or so, and then a 4th G92 GPU in a couple weeks or so.

Picked up the 3x Gate Valves in order to isolate each setup from the system--just need to get them installed.

Going to start working on the "Winter Rad" setup shortly.

Warmer weather update:

1x Q9450 @ 3.58
1x 8800GT @ 711/1777/999 (now @ 744/1854/1033)




1x Q9450 @ 3.58
1x 8800GS currently on air @ 744/1854/1033




1x Q6600 @ 3.57
2x 8800GS @ 737/1842/996 (now @ 784/1960/1021 and 725/1812/993)

The Seasonal Manifold

As mentioned in post #76, I plan on making this WCing system "Seasonal"...meaning that I can pump the heat outside during the summer/warmer periods and pump it inside during the winter/cooler periods. But it has to be convenient. Come October I expect to be turning valves for the cooler nights and warmer days.

So here is the new Manifold:



There will be another car rad, located inside here with me, attached to the 2 straight barbs on the right end of the manifold. I also added another set of gate valves for, uh, "Future Reference"...yeah, that's it--Future Reference!


For warmer weather the valves will be set as below in order to pump the heat outside:




For cooler weather I will set the valves as below in order to pump the heat inside:




For winter play I can set the valves as above for summer or below for a "Mix" to check out different things and/or avoid condensation:



I should have used gate valves, but ball valves are what I grabbed. Either way, ball valves allow for reasonable adjustment.


I decided to add a drain port to this manifold:



With all of the Isolation abilities here, I thought it might come in handy. I expect to change the plug to a barb and a shut-off valve of some kind in the future. Right now, the plug will do.


Having the Good Luck that I do....(can You spell: M-u-r-p-h-y)....I managed to crack one of the pvc Tees while screwing in the last gate valve. No, I didn't do anything wrong or even different--I did this same thing 6x on the last manifold and 7x on this one....this last one just cracked! So, I did what I always do and tried to "fix" it. Some pvc glue and good clamp and a bit of time:









Of course there was a small leak. Nothing major....after a couple of hrs sitting and a few more hrs with the manifold installed and operational--its managed to seal itself. Hopefully it will stay that way! Yes, the clamp is a permanent fixture!


Here it is installed and operational:








I've been trying to decide which pump to get for this interior part of the system. The vertical head is only ~4-4.5'. But I do need flow also. I am looking very hard at the Eheim 1260. The 1262 is unnecessary, and I think the 1250 will be too small. Sadly, the 1250 and below are what most folks use for PCs and aquariums--so, there really are not many 1260's available used at a good price. A new one is ~$120 + shipping and, Ya know, that just kinda breaks my heart to pay that much. : Yes, I probably will break-weak and get the Eheim, but the Mag 7 @ ~$75 is looking awfully tempting! They are both powerful, reliable pumps.....but the Eheims are just Good stuff and quiet too. I've got some time, so we'll see what happens....


Finally, I purchased the car rad that will be used in here. It should be here Thurs. 9/11. I'll put up some pix, specs, etc. once its here......

The Winter Rad


Last week I ordered this rad from the same company (ltiparts) linked to previously. It arrived in Good shape, as described as expected--$68.99 shipped:



Its a Dual-core (aka 2rows) and much smaller than the summer rad. So, we'll see how things go. I may need to tweak a little "winter water" in from the summer rad outside, but that shouldn't be an issue if needed.

Front:



Back:


Inside-2 rows of flat tubing:


Rad Cap:


Possible Fan--may use the 9" ac fans like on the summer rad....not sure yet:


Plumbing supplies--should now have everything except the pump and any possible connectors to and from it:


Broken off over flow tube:


A little bit of Gorilla Glue:


The over-flow tube is an unnecessary component in this application. This system will never get hot enough to "vent", and the rad cap seals the system. But I might as well put it on, huh?

The fan is:








According to Killawatt:

24V= 2.10amp start-up, 1.76amp load. 184 watts load. Way too noisy.
Below--0.26amps/14watts go to PSU fans,etc:
12V= 1.51amp start-up, 1.30amp load. 92 watts load. Still too noisy.
5V= 0.62amp start-up, 0.47amp load. 29 watts load. Nice and quite and still moves a lot of air.

I have 2 of these fans that I ordered when I first set this system up. I haven't been using them, because I went with the 9" ac fans. Looks like I'll be checking one of these out in here this winter though..... May do a 7v mod and see what that produces.


Still trying to make a decision on the pump and hopefully find one used at a decent cost-savings.

Just a Partial update. I have more to add when I get a chance:

I managed to pick up an Eheim 1262 at a $41 cost savings= $109 shipped. Added the fittings to hook up to the 1" ID tubing:






Specs:





Curve:





I've managed to get the rad fans mounted, wired and working. After messing with it and checking things out, I decided to go with 5V. Plenty of push/pull air-flow and ~43watts total for both fans:










Initially, I was just going to use 1 fan, but decided later to go with the 2 fans. Uncertain about the amount of amps that 1 fan would pull....I decided to wire it up to 2 sets of wires from the psu:






2x 5V:






Had to make my own double 5V Y-cable:


Sleeved it:





Connected the 1" tubing to the rad manifold:






I am further along then the end of this post indicates, but I will save the rest for more "Update Posts".

Condensation.......is a nightmare.

Just wanted to offer a simple update:

Last week temps around here started dropping quite a bit at night. I've had several nights in the 60s, 50s, even 40s during the last few weeks. I was definitely enjoying playing with this seasonal rad setup. Its working very well overall.

But being the bonehead that I am....I had to see how things went as temps got lower and lower. What I found is that with the temps in this room around 80F and the temps outside somewhere between 48F-43F....uh....condensation occurs on the blocks. When I went to bed temps were ~48F. I left the rigs on the outside rad with a plan of just checking realtemp for the lows when I got up. That was my mistake: Not doing it when I would be right here to babysit everything.

Yep, messed some stuff up. Been working through it. Still have some issues. Its been a royal pita. Live and learn, I guess. Either way, the Seasonal Dual Rad setup works great!

I'll post more later.....

------------------------------------------------------

Another Update:

Bought a brand new Mag Drive 9.5 pump. I haven't incorporated it yet....not sure when or how I am going to.... I keep seriously thinking about eliminating the 55g blue barrel. So, that will help determine what happens.

As stated above, the winter rad is setup, hooked up and functionl. 1 regret is that I used ball valves on the new seasonal manifold instead of gate valves. Gate valves would allow me to tweak cold water into the internal system...which would allow me to pinpoint a lower temp range for the PCs and even help regulate the ambient temps in here. Oh, well, I may redo the seansonal manifold...maybe not....we'll see....It works fine as it is...just doesn't allow for the "fine tuning" that the gate valves would provide.

I've had the winter rad hooked up before the condensation issue above. But had to deal with that. 99% back up from that fiasco.

When I orginally hooked up the winter rad.....I found a leak! A spraying type leak! So, I had to figure out what to do, how to do it and all that good stuff. With the help of my buddy Hicks, I decided to try to repair it.......Uh, yeah,......Myself! Think I would know better by now, huh? But I am glad to say that after a bit of a learning curve and going around and around in circles....I managed to get the job done!

It looks much worse in the pix below, then it does in life. Those are macro pix, so everything is a bit larger than life. I had zero prior experience of rad repair before this, so keep the learning curve in mind. Either way, it works, its leak free, I fix it myself and it only cost some time. Long story short--I messed up a few times, but managed to get the job done:
















As stated before--it looks worse in the pix than in life. The last pic shows that the damaged area is much smaller in reference to the overall rad then may otherwise be assumed. The blob of solder ended up being necessary in order to create a 100% leak-free seal. Did I mention the part about having no prior experience? Anyway, the rad is under the desk. The damaged area is toward the non-viewable side, so as long as it works....it works!

I'll update more at a later time.....

I will be updating this thread shortly....

Just added a new element to this setup:

The Hole…Geothermal Loop…56K Warning!

Check it out....money well spent.

-----------------------------------------------------


Here's some pix already posted in the Geo-loop thread.

This is the current PC setup:






The cardboard is supposed to be temporary, but may just wind up being permanent. I can use it for a template to cut out some plywood to stain, but it's way on the back-burner for now. It really helps cool that area though. That's where the HDs and PSUs are....so it warms up pretty good. Temps stay ~7-10F above ambient in there now which is more than adequate by me.



The indoor rad setup:

Connections made to the seasonal manifold:



The 2 tees/ blue tubes coming out of the floor are for the Geo-loop.

I've already fixed the creased tubing with an elbow:



Tubing, pump, etc:



Pump, Rad, etc:




This setup has worked out very well this year. It turned cold quickly, and I just turned on my main heater for the first time 3 days ago. I have run it 3x for a total of 3hrs. That's it. Other supplemental heat comes from a single 1K w $20 space heater from Wally-world. It has been mostly off until these last few days where its been quite cold. And I have removed the dryer vent from venting outside, covered it with pantyhose in order to pump all that heat back indoors, instead of heating the neighborhood. It's run on perm press, not Hot.

This is kinda how it goes:

There is a 9" fan from wally-world the center of which is 21" down from the ceiling. The door to this room is wide-open and the fan is blowing the warm air down the hall. That's 24/7.

With Daytime temps in the 60's and only the car rad heating the place...I end up opening the back door until temps outside drop to about 58F. Without opening the backdoor, temps in this room get up to 89F. The other end in the high 70's-low 80's.

With daytime temps in the 50's or below...the back door stays closed. Temps get up to 84-86F in this room.

Heating with only the PCs/rad temps is fine until outside temps start dipping into the 30's....then it starts to become time to turn on the space heater. It has a thermostat, so it doesn't run constantly...just helps out some.

When temps start hitting about 30F or below....it's time to do some laundry (dryer heat) or turn on the main heater (below 30F).

The last few days the daytime high's have been in the low 40's to mid 30's. Night time lows have been low 30's to mid-high 20's, so the laundry is getting caught up and/or the main heater has been turned on....

So, since it's gotten cold early and quickly this yr, I have had about 6 wks with probably 98% of the heating supplied by these PCs. The other 1.5% has been the 1K space heater and I guessimate 0.5% from the dryer/main heater....and that's only been in the last few days for the main heater and couple of weeks for the dryer vent (gotta do laundry any way... ) It's been cloudy and rainy with fronts coming through, etc, so this place hasn't been collecting much radiant heat from the sun.

If this plays out this well toward the spring, then I am looking at 3 months without adding any heat other then my PCs this year. : Lowest temps in here this year have been ~72F in this room and 65F on the other end. Normally they are much higher, but those are the lowest indoor temps and that is on the coldest nights with only the space heater adding help....sometimes.


I am going to take some videos of the temps with the outside rad. The window is closed and the fans are off, so its totally passive. I'll post that stuff when I get it together.

Overall I am very happy with this setup. However, I am still moving forward. The Geo-loop looks very promising, but it will be used for super low-cost A/C this summer. However, it looks so promising that I am installing a 2nd loop dedicated to just the PCs. Slightly different setup and install, but I expect it to work very well. The outside car rad is going into the living room for the low cost A/C setup. I expect all of this "experimentation" to start paying for itself.....about 6 wks ago. So, hopefully, by this time next year the PCs will be geo-cooled (coming very soon), and all my efforts will provide at least the bulk of the heat and a/c at a greatly reduced cost to me. I expect to have my 8K btu a/c unit available to be turned into a Geo-heat pump for supplemental heating next yr.

Well, it's been a long cold winter. Using the indoor rad has worked very well all things considered. The indoor rad has now been switched over to the geothermal loop linked above--the benefits of which are still yet unseen....warmer weather is just now getting here. Today was the first day in the 80's.

For this summer I have gone back to the rad in the out-building, except this time: I have TWO rads sandwiched in the shroud. Identical rads, except for the number of rows: 1x 3-row and 1x 2-row. They are setup in series. The water leaves the PCs and goes into the 3-row, then the 2-row, then to the pump and back to the PCs. The airflow/water flow are setup like this:



Those, of course, are not the rads I'm using....

This is currently giving me temps of 1.2-2.3C (2-4F) above ambient! (with the fans on high=~90w) Ambient being what is reported real time by the weather service--I'll need to do some type of check with a thermometer though.


Now I am currently adding a double bong cooler to the setup. Everything is bought, most of the work is done, but it's not completed yet. I will take some pix and document it. I'm hoping to get temps below ambient--not much, but any little bit will help. The setup will run:

PCs>Dual Rads>Dual Bong Coolers> Res w/ pump>PCs

Now I understand rads behaving as a heatsink and all that. In fact, that's the purpose/intent of the rad in the geothermal loop. Got it. But here is what I am thinking with the Bong Coolers: Adding these BCs will actually make this an open loop, so some of the variables of a closed loop will no longer apply (like lack of vertical head, etc). The water will go from the res to the PCs and collect heat (energy). It will then go to the dual rads which will remove most of that heat. Then it will travel straight to the BCs where evaporation will (should) remove even more heat (energy) bringing (hopefully) the temp below ambient.

The biggest problem I see is the "tub" that I am using--It's not insulated, etc, so it may collect enough ambient energy to prevent getting below ambient temps. However, running at ambient would be cool by me. So, an insulated cooler may be needed for a res, but at this point--I'm not going to sweat it. Just going to check it out for what it is and decide later where to go from there.

----------------------------------------

Altered the system. The Bong Coolers are installed and operational. Check it out:

Bong! Bong! Bong!

Added a small element to this setup. I've kept aquariums on and off for many years. Last few years they have been fully automated. Auto: Water changes, lights, C02, Fert dosing, etc, etc, etc.....don't even need to feed the fish. Anyway, Appliance timers really help out on that. I have some extras that I'm not currently using, so I decided to hook up a double appliance timer:





This timer controls 2 appliances which is perfect for my car rad fans:



I should have done this sooner. The day time highs and the night time lows--during spring and fall-- are a real pita, because during the day I have to watch my cpu high temps and at night I have to watch out for condensation when temps outside get somewhere below 48F/9C. During the winter the setup is switched over to the indoor rad to help provide winter heat, so that's not a problem. But spring and fall are murder.....

Right now the fans are set to come on at 9am and go off at 11pm. That will save 10hrs of wear-n-tear and a little juice (90w on high). I will probably run the fans 24/7 once summer temps get here, but we'll see what happens there.

The Bongs and Horizontal Volenti Cooler handle the load very well. The only issue may be the high humidity at night and during the early morning. So, for now, between 11pm and 9am the system will run on the Bongs and HVC. Adjustments will be made as temps/issues rise....

First off, awesome build. I read 95% of it.

I'm not quite sure if you know this or not...

Aluminum radiators transfer heat better than copper ones. In a copper radiator all the joints must be soldered. Solder (lead or w/e) doesn't transfer heat as well as an all aluminum radiator. My father works at Modine (Got a few '10 Camaro fans laying around) and I've heard all about it.

I know you used a cu rad so that you weren't mixing metals but it's just something to be aware of.

Dozoy said:

First off, awesome build. I read 95% of it.

I'm not quite sure if you know this or not...

Aluminum radiators transfer heat better than copper ones. In a copper radiator all the joints must be soldered. Solder (lead or w/e) doesn't transfer heat as well as an all aluminum radiator. My father works at Modine (Got a few '10 Camaro fans laying around) and I've heard all about it.

I know you used a cu rad so that you weren't mixing metals but it's just something to be aware of.

Click to expand...

I've heard this thrown around a lot. And I'm wondering whether anything can be done to minimize the electrolytic interaction between different metals? Are there chemicals which can treat the mixture to deter this from happening?

Shingoshi

I have a similar build going on here!
The main project;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264
The cooling system;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845

Dozoy said:

First off, awesome build. I read 95% of it.

I'm not quite sure if you know this or not...

Aluminum radiators transfer heat better than copper ones. In a copper radiator all the joints must be soldered. Solder (lead or w/e) doesn't transfer heat as well as an all aluminum radiator. My father works at Modine (Got a few '10 Camaro fans laying around) and I've heard all about it.

I know you used a cu rad so that you weren't mixing metals but it's just something to be aware of.

Click to expand...

Mixing metals isn't worth the risk and using an anti-corrosive such as anti-freeze is just going to reduce the thermal conductivity of the fluid. Adding anything to the water is just going to reduce it's thermal conductivity. Other then a few very expensive and exotic fluids--nothing is better then just plain water.

Shingoshi said:

I've heard this thrown around a lot. And I'm wondering whether anything can be done to minimize the electrolytic interaction between different metals? Are there chemicals which can treat the mixture to deter this from happening?

Shingoshi

I have a similar build going on here!
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264

Click to expand...

Anti-freeze.

And the mixture I have is rather concentrated. So what effect/benefits should I see from having this already in place? I simply can't use plain water in my system, since I'm targeting sub-zero Celsius temperatures in a hybrid cooling system. I'm using a refrigerated water cooler to chill my antifreeze mixture. The antifreeze will then be used to cool the components in the cluster. All of this is being done inside of a Pelican 1780 Transport case. The system will be completely sealed when finished.

Shingoshi

I read most of it, for the car radiator, are you still using the 16lb cap? You need a Stant cap rated at 7lbs and that will bring the temps down. Our 69gmc uses a 16lb cap in winter (for Heat) and a 7lb cap in summer (to keep the engine cooler), and we live in the desert (Tucson, AZ).

This is so ghetto and hardcore at the same time in it's scope that I have to give you a virtual high-5 for the awesomeness of it all. Congrats.

What the fuck was I just looking at.

A) Meth Lab
B) Water Balloon maker
C) Meth Lab
D) Garden of Geekin
E) Meth Lab

naja where do you live?

Shingoshi said:

And the mixture I have is rather concentrated. So what effect/benefits should I see from having this already in place? I simply can't use plain water in my system, since I'm targeting sub-zero Celsius temperatures in a hybrid cooling system. I'm using a refrigerated water cooler to chill my antifreeze mixture. The antifreeze will then be used to cool the components in the cluster. All of this is being done inside of a Pelican 1780 Transport case. The system will be completely sealed when finished.

Shingoshi

Click to expand...

Adding anything to water will just reduce it's thermal conductivity, so that's what you will get. It's not likely that you are going to be going sub-zero with a rad setup unless during the winter or via a chillbox.

gwarren007 said:

I read most of it, for the car radiator, are you still using the 16lb cap? You need a Stant cap rated at 7lbs and that will bring the temps down. Our 69gmc uses a 16lb cap in winter (for Heat) and a 7lb cap in summer (to keep the engine cooler), and we live in the desert (Tucson, AZ).

Click to expand...

Cool. Didn't even know that they made 7lb caps or anything about increased/decreased heat. Thanx!

Methadras said:

This is so ghetto and hardcore at the same time in it's scope that I have to give you a virtual high-5 for the awesomeness of it all. Congrats.

Click to expand...

Thanx!

stevedave said:

What the fuck was I just looking at.

A) Meth Lab
B) Water Balloon maker
C) Meth Lab
D) Garden of Geekin
E) Meth Lab

Click to expand...

Probably A, C or E, but, shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anybody.....

RADEoN said:

naja where do you live?

Click to expand...

Usa

Naja002 said:

Adding anything to water will just reduce it's thermal conductivity, so that's what you will get. It's not likely that you are going to be going sub-zero with a rad setup unless during the winter or via a chillbox.

Click to expand...

You missed what I said about literally using a real water cooler to chill the liquid-coolant. There won't be a radiator. There WILL be a heat-exchanger, with the evaporator of the chiller being used to drop the temperature of the LC loop. It will be a liquid-to-liquid heat-exchanger. So it will be very efficient at dropping those temperatures.

Shingoshi

Shingoshi said:

You missed what I said about literally using a real water cooler to chill the liquid-coolant. There won't be a radiator. There WILL be a heat-exchanger, with the evaporator of the chiller being used to drop the temperature of the LC loop. It will be a liquid-to-liquid heat-exchanger. So it will be very efficient at dropping those temperatures.

Shingoshi

Click to expand...

Right. And you missed the part about this being a radiator based thread. So, why are you posting all of this here?

Naja002 said:

Right. And you missed the part about this being a radiator based thread. So, why are you posting all of this here?

Click to expand...

Originally I thought I would be using a radiator. But then as the discussion proceeded, I realized I needed to depend on the condenser rather than a radiator. And I was told to look at this thread by someone else. That's why...

Enjoy your system...
Shingoshi

Not exactly sure what you mean by a "real water cooler", but if you are actually talking about a drinking water cooler....it won't have the capacity.

Naja002 said:

Not exactly sure what you mean by a "real water cooler", but if you are actually talking about a drinking water cooler....it won't have the capacity.

Click to expand...

I simply meant a unit designed to cool water by means of refrigeration. And they come in more than one size. But as you said, that's a different thread.

I'll leave it at that...
Shingoshi

Just wanted to offer an apology to you, Shingoshi. Your questions here were/are not out of line or even out of context for this thread. Sorry, too many things going on over here. I am dealing with my next project which is something brand new to me....plus the rest of life, etc.

Give me a link to where your thoughts are now on your project. I don't really care for the black background and tiny white print, so I'm not inclined to to read books about out-dated thoughts. You are at a point that you've progressed to while working your project out....where can I find that?

Naja002 said:

Just wanted to offer an apology to you, Shingoshi. Your questions here were/are not out of line or even out of context for this thread. Sorry, too many things going on over here. I am dealing with my next project which is something brand new to me....plus the rest of life, etc.

Give me a link to where your thoughts are now on your project. I don't really care for the black background and tiny white print, so I'm not inclined to to read books about out-dated thoughts. You are at a point that you've progressed to while working your project out....where can I find that?

Click to expand...

I am by nature a research person. I devote myself to reading as many often "outdated" and obscure concepts as I can find. Many of them would be found to be very current once the principles for their existence are known. I'll give you a few examples of what I mean:

1.) Einstein Refrigeration Cycle.
2.) Vortex Tubes
3.) Eductors and Injectors.
4.) Hypersonic Venturis
5.) Ultrasonic Vaporization
6.) Endothermic Reactions
7.) Azeotropic Solutions
I will list more as I think of them.

I have the ability to synthesize numerous ideas/concepts into a working model. It's just something that I'm capable of. I can typically glance at something and make practical connections to technologies I was previously aware of. This allows me to combine things that others never thought possible. I create a conceptual tree on which I overlay/graft the concepts of new technologies.

Based on that fact, I will be applying the concept of your bong into a more condensed form. This is also why I thought of supercooling my liquid loop with a refrigerated system. I am building the entire system to fit inside of a Pelican 1780 case. So you can see that as large as it is, I'm still substantially limited as to what I can do in it. So volume management is premium. Here are the links to my project:

The main project;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264
The cooling system;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845

Shingoshi