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Shingoshi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
Messages
146
I started this thread somewhere else, but have gotten no responses there. So I'm hoping that this will be a more active environment for discussing this idea. Here's the project:

Shingoshi said:
Ok. Here's the comedy behind the question. I have this board (a Tyan S4985: I have since RMA'd this board and now considering the S4992 instead) that's way too large for just about every case on the market. The board measures 16x13". Yeah, it's a four-socket behemoth. Anyway, last year I thought about building a computer inside of a Pelican 1780NF transport case. You know the cases, even if you didn't know who made them. The were constantly shown on Stargate SG-1. They were used regularly in the filming of that show.

So here's the idea.
1.) Get one Pelican 1780NF case. (internal dimensions: 42" x 22" x 15.1")
2.) Build all of the mounts required for my 5 boards and accessories inside that single case.
3.) Get a Silverstone ST1500 power supply. Hell, maybe even two of them.
4.) Keep the liquid-cooling I have now on the Tyan S4985 board.
5.) Get eight Dynatron A5AG heatsinks (I have four Tyan S2912s as well).
6.) Get an (as yet) unspecified number of Koolance radiators.
7.) Get as many Scythe Kaze Maru @1900 fans as needed.
8.) Mount some of the fans to the radiators.
9.) Secure the radiator/fan combinations inside the case.
10.) Get one very large automobile radiator.
11.) Mount the automotive radiators to the top of the Pelican case.
12.) Drill pass-through holes for the tubing.
13.) Connect the internal Koolance radiators to the external automotive radiators.

The heat from inside the case will be transfered to the outside by means of heat exchange. The smaller Koolance radiators will act like the heatpipes attached to a processor. The fans attached to the radiators will force the cooler air created by the cooled fluid from the external radiators, and circulate that air throughout the Pelican case. The sound produced within this system should be fully insulated.

Everything (the motherboards) can be connected to the outside by wireless. The power connections can be your standard waterproof types used for passing power to outside appliances. So the case could remain completely sealed, only opened for servicing as needed. Even the graphics cards could use waterproof connections, mounted to the walls of the case. So anything that absolutely has to be physically connected to something outside, would pass through a waterproof interface.

Now how's that for a proof of concept system? This might even be more attractive than Amanda Tapping. But then, I might have Tapping on my shoulder, for the insult!

NASA, USAF, NSA etc, I'm available!
Shingoshi
Click to expand...
Here's a picture of the case.
blog_attachment.php

And now that I have pictures of it!
dsc00008kni.jpg

dsc00009cnz.jpg

And for the sake of showing how much volume this case has!
dsc00010daw.jpg

And here's why I needed something so grand as this project to contain it!
dsc00020f.jpg
 
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Upon further consideration, I'm thinking about which cooling techniques should be used. The two most popular are liquid and phase-change. And there is also the possibility of combining them in one system.

The big problem here for me is that I have four Tyan S2912 dual-socket motherboards which use the earlier 4.1" heatsink mounting pattern. The standard that is widely used now, has only 3.5" between the two opposing mounting points. Needless to say, trying to find the earlier mounting pitch is becoming more difficult. That's the reason why I mentioned using the Dynatron A5AG heatsinks. The fans I thought about using are no longer around. And I need 8 units in total for all four S2912 boards.

But this complicates things. Heatsinks aren't very efficient alone, unless they have a large volume of forced air flowing over them. And in an enclosed system like the one proposed, air flow is a big issue. So I'm considering another technique, possibly to be used in conjunction with the liquid-cooling system. Because the fact is, I still need to cool the entire environment, and not just the processors. For instance, the power supply must be cooled, as well as the hard drives.

It should be noted that heatsinks without fans are typically only used in 1U servers. Where the air flow can be properly directed without obstructions. But that requires often contrarotating fans turning at rather high rpms, creating with that, high noise. This was why I chose to install a liquid-cooling system in a multiprocessor system.

To manage the full cooling requirements of this system, I'm thinking about placing an evaporator (like the ones used in freezers) in the ceiling of the case. A small air-conditioning unit can be modified for this purpose. The case would essentially become a mini-freezer. Then with the air inside the case kept at such low temperatures, there should be no problem cooling all of the peripheral components, along with the processors.

Having an evaporator mounted into the top of the case would allow any warmed (and rising) air to be rechilled and directed back downward to the components. Employing a large number of fans (especially the Kaze Marus) would ensure that air reached anywhere it is needed.

Now all of this could be averted by not using the S2912 motherboards. But since I already have four of them ready to go, I really don't want to waste. If I could find the proper mounting plates for them (which Koolance doesn't make), I would liquid-cool the entire processor complex. Having those plates made, may not be that big of a deal. They would simply have to have the 4.1" separation between their mounting points.

Anyway, for the time being, I'll leave this here and return later after further thought.

Shingoshi

Edit: I may not have hard drives inside this case at all. I may instead opt for ssd.
 
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I had a build idea to use a pelican case too... except mine was to build a Mini-ITX system that could run on battery for 8+ hours (be portable) and record uncompressed 1080p video through HDMI, as well as have a built-in 15.6" screen for previewing (if you weren't running on battery). and have it priced under $1000, and have it fit on a carry-on (if you took out the car battery -_- ).. Lithium Ion packs were $300 and would only get me 5-6 hours realistically, while a $40 car battery would get a lot more...

But sorta gave that up since I don't film as much anymore, but it was a cool concept... your's is a bit over mine haha...

Can't wait for some pics...
 
Since writing about this earlier, I too considered the use of batteries, but for backup (in a controlled shutdown) not long term usage.

Now to continue with the project. I have considered using the majority of components I already have without adding much more. Just this morning I thought that I don't need to purchase additional hard drives, since I already own eight of them:
1.) Two Samsung F1 1TB (in RAID1)
2.) Two Western Digital 1TB (also in RAID1)
3.) Four Seagate Barracuda 320GB (in RAID5)

I have also realized that I can simply boot the other (S2912) boards from USB drives. I can then take the eight drives I have and put them into a Network Attached Storage system.

Now for a basic design outline:
1.) Having the Pelican case laying flat in front of you, so that the lid opens away from you. We now have our proper orientation for discussion.
2.) Arrange the motherboards so that the S4985 is in the center of the case.
3.) Use rigid 2" long tubing to space the S2912s into pairs. I should explain this:
a) Using a number of tubes equal to the number of mounting points on the motherboards, place 2.5" long 1/8" threaded shafts through each hole (passing through the tubes as well). In that manner, the S2912 boards are held together stacked in pairs.
4.) Position each set of the S2912s to each side of the mainboard.
5.) In front of the motherboards (all lined up) we now install our radiator/fan combinations.
a) I currently have two B&M Racing Supercoolers. They were intended for oil-cooling, but work well in my application. They are in fact what I use in my liquid-cooling system. They measure 11" square and are very efficient at dispersing heat. They work so well in fact, that I am using them passively with idle temperatures of @28C. But I will have to continue testing that setup as I add more processors.
6.) Connect all of the radiators in series from one end of the case to the other.
7.) Use a Full-House water filter housing like those from Lowe's as my reservoir.

I'll connect the entire system so the liquid is drawn from the from reservoir into the radiators. From there, the liquid will exit the radiators and be pumped into the cooling blocks. The liquid will then once more return to the filter housing to complete the loop. Fans will be attached to the Supercoolers so that they draw rather than push air through. The design of the Supercoolers is such that they would have the air moving at a vector from the axis of the fans. It's for this reason, it's best to draw the air through, so that it moves in a straight line from the fans to where directed.

Again as mentioned above. The internal radiators are cooled by the evaporator in the top of the case. As long as the internal atmosphere is kept very cool, there is no need for an external heat exchange from the radiators to the outside of the case.

I'll continue later...
Shingoshi
 
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When I looked at the Koolance GPU-200 graphics card cooling-block, I was concerned whether it could possibly work. I was also concerned as to whether the block would fully cover the chip. But I just pulled one of my boards out of the closet, and examined it. According to the specs, the arms of this unit should indeed extend to cover the mounting points on the cpu. And the base of this unit should be more than adequate for this purpose. Using these devices would allow me to liquid-cool my entire system. I will purchase one of these to test, to determine if they will accomplish the job. In the long run, using these would be a cheaper solution. And the temperatures would also be much cooler system-wide.

Shingoshi
 
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Given that I will likely now use the Koolance GPU-200 on my S2912 boards, I will increase the separation between them to be 4". That would likely give me enough room to change processors without having to separate the board pairs, instead leaving them intact. Maintenance shouldn't be an issue with that setup.

Shingoshi
 
Initially, when I started thinking about this project, I was under the impression only the S4985 would be capable of liquid-cooling. In fact, my previous cooling loop was a drop-in replacement for the S4985. There were no modifications required to accommodate the new board. The problem as I mentioned above was the wider separation between the mounting studs for the S2912 motherboards.
S4985 = 3.5"
S2912 = 4.1"
That difference may not seem like much. But when you consider that the holes on the Koolance CPU-330/340 are pre-drilled for the smaller spacing, the other boards are then eliminated from those cooling blocks as a solution.

The Koolance GPU-200 however has swinging arms which extend to cover rather large distances (@5"). I knew from the diagrams that the GPU-200's arms would reach the mounting posts. But I wasn't sure whether the arms would be subject to bending upon being mounted. If the arms and their attachment points are rigid enough, none of this will be an issue.

So now having a uniform option of using liquid-cooling for everything, some of the design parameters for this project have changed. One of the things I had previously desired, was to not have any permanent connections between the top and bottom halves of the case. That can somewhat be tackled by using quick disconnects between components.

I thought about using a phase-change system in conjunction with liquid-cooling. The idea is to superchill the liquid and then cool the internal components with it. I've since looked at the Koolance HD-60s as evaporators, and possibly submerge them in a tank (reservoir) where the cooling fluid would pass over it. Being that antifreeze would be used, the temperatures achieved could be very low indeed. Cooling my system with a fluid many degrees below zero centigrade, would be very appealing indeed.

Essentially the entire computer case would become a minifreezer, with the liquid-cooling fluid being chilled by the environment. The foam of the case would act as it's insulation. And I could use gel-packs to maintain the low temperatures, reducing the amount of work the refrigeration system would have to expend. If I do use this format, the phase-change system should reside completely in the top half of the case. The condenser would be mounted externally to the top as well. And it would likely make sense to have the compressor sit outside of the case as well. For this project, an automotive AC compressor would be a better match for the conditions it would have to work in. It would simply have to be electrically powered, like those units on refrigeration trailers.

Shingoshi
 
http://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-15...er-Housing.asp
This would have to be the monster of all reservoirs. Think how much money most of you have spent for some small reservoir (by comparison). This thing will sit inside my case and be chilled by the lower temperatures inside it. And being that I would be using an automotive radiator as the only (external) cooling device for the LC loop, having something this large would be very nice. This would allow the liquid to be precooled before being deep-chilled by the evaporator.

And this brings up another point. I think we've all overlooked the fact that the entire system will be cooled by the LC loop, whether the A/C system is installed/running or not. At no point is the LC loop interrupted. It functions no differently than any other LC loop. The only difference here is that it's temperatures are forced lower by being exposed to the cold expanding gases from the evaporator. But like I said, even if the A/C weren't running, the LC loop will be sufficient for "normal" operation.

I've become rather familiar with using NPT fittings, thanks to Lowes.com. I've purchased virtually all of my plumbing for my LC loop from Lowes. Having 1 1/2" NPT is not a problem for me, now that I know how to use them. In fact, I'm using two B&M Racing 11x11" SuperCoolers (#70274) for my radiators in my existing system. And they use 3/4" NPT fittings, which work easily with 3/4" to 1/2" hose barb adapters.

Shingoshi
 
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elite.mafia said:
How about some pictures? /subscribed
Click to expand...

I still have to get my Tyan S4989 mainboard. That won't be until August, likely. In the meantime, I'm documenting the progress of my planning here.

It would be nice to see someone else try this also. Then, we could compare notes and benefit from each others progress.

You'll have to be patient, just like me!
Shingoshi
 
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Wow, crazy build! So what are you going to be using these machines for?
 
extide said:
Wow, crazy build! So what are you going to be using these machines for?
Click to expand...

I hope that title for this post answers your question. I've packaged software for personal use for a long time. But I began investigating the possibility of building my own specialized Linux Distribution. Since my interest tends towards mathematics and analysis, I wanted to have a machine that would suit that purpose. Additionally, I knew that if I wanted to build a distribution for clusters, I needed to be operating one of my own for testing of the software. So that's the background for this project.

You might want to look at this link also. As it is a sub-thread of this topic:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845

Shingoshi
 
One of the main features of this project, is that it is intended to be completely sealed. With that in mind, every connection to the case, must be waterproof. So I'm going to start listing the components I've found to facilitate that, here:

https://www.photonage.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2951
http://taitek.manufacturer.globalso...f/product_id-1011218005/action-GetProduct.htm
http://www.techpowerup.com/97115/Stealth_Computer_Releases_a_Rugged_Waterproof_Fanless_PC.html

These are things you simply MUST see!
http://www.stealth.com/littlepc_Waterproofpc500F.htm

Frequently check this post. And if you have suggestions, please make them.
Shingoshi
 
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I started considering using a different means of chilling my liquid-loop. Water coolers came to mind. So I searched Google and found this (and it's cheap!):
http://www.air-n-water.com/product/...-DA3F-DE11-B4E3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

How much more could you want than that?

Edit: Upon closer examination, I realize this unit is so small because it's a thermoelectric (peltier) device. Not exactly what I was looking for. So back to searching.

Shingoshi
 
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Now that we have a committed relationship, I hope we have a long life together!

I just ordered my case! You can see it here:
http://www.tactical-store.com/ts-pe-dx-1780transport.html
This should make for a very good home for us to live in. Plenty of room for the kids. :D

We'll have so much room to play with, that we just might get lost in the backyard. Ok. Enough with the silly puns. I'm pleased!

Shingoshi
 
To summarize phase-change chiller construction in 3 steps:

- Assess heatload and desired coolant temperature
- Size the compressor and evaporator (and choose evaporator design)
- Assemble, test, and tweak

I wouldn't just assume that the compressor for an A/C can handle the heatload without running the numbers. You have the option of temperature control as well (compressor need not be always on at idle, for instance).

Edit: I see that you intend for the LC to be capable of dissipating the heat alone. Still - sizing the compressor/evap appropriately toward your end goal is key (even if they are part of a prebuilt A/C)

Edit2: If you plan to chill the water directly, then you should know that the radiators will work against you. You don't want your cold water exposed to that amount of surface area (it should instead be insulated of course).
If you plan chill the water using chilled air forced through the radiators, then this is far less efficient, but has additional benefits. If you completely seal and insulate the case then your case temp will be roughly the same as the coolant temperature, and thus condensation may not be an issue. The mechanical drives will require their own chamber, however.

Here is an example of this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160872 --- This is extreme, but it's well-executed. Instead of -40, you could shoot for 10C below ambient perhaps.

The reasons I don't quite like phase change anymore:

- noise and bulk of the system (compressors can be noisy)
- power consumption (weighs on my conscience that I don't need to be wasting all that power)
- Less friendly to 24/7 operation than regular watercooling
- I'd want a fully DIY design, and though I'd love to devote the time to it...I shouldn't

If you're serious about phase-change then you might find more useful information at Xtremesystems.

If I'm going to air-condition my room anyway then I might run the A/C air directly to the radiator first, but then again I don't have multiple systems in my case. I wouldn't want all that heat in my room... I'd exhaust it out.
 
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Ok... I read through some of your Prius thread. That one is quite different.

I'll need to read it more in-depth, but:
(And I'm sure this is all obvious to you, but I should walk through it anyway)

- In general a chiller will require several passes to achieve sub-zero coolant temps. It will take more than a few minutes if you have a large volume of coolant (which you will have).
- The coolant temperature doesn't change nearly as much as the refrigerant temperature.
- If the coolant temperature is still below ambient after exchange with the condensor, then the radiator will hurt performance (however it's needed for regular LC operation I assume).
- Liquid cooled condensors are not uncommon, but they are generally cooled by separate loops. It would seem counterintuitive (you may say imaginative, if your design works) to reintroduce heat into the coolant loop from the heat exchanger responsible for chilling the coolant (creating that absence of heat).

Now if you have run the numbers on your design and it works, then ok. Unfortunately I don't have time to really analyze it right now, but you sound like you know what you're doing. There's no way you'd overlook trivialities such as zeroth and first laws of thermodynamics.

Edit: My tone sounds condescending here. Unintentional.

One tip: The Primochill typhoon 3 + Laing D5 for parallel water loops using a single pump. Unfortunately this is a reservoir/pump combo, but it's amazingly efficient, as tests will soon reveal.
 
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But then again, that's novice within the scope of my knowledge. And there are more things that I need to know and take into consideration. So let me just say it right now, Thanks!

I appreciate the interest you have shown here. I will hopefully consider every piece of knowledge you or anyone else has to offer.

About the philosophy of this build. I keep changing things. This happens partly due to cost limitations. I simply don't have the means to explore the full extent of my ideas. I would be homeless if I did. And where would I put my computer then? So I have to consider the long-term consequences of my attempting this.

My other thread goes further into the details surrounding the actually cooling system itself. You can find it here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845

The reservoirs which I have yet to receive are very large. The sumps/tanks on them alone are 20" deep, and tapered downward from almost 8" in diameter. The two intakes on them are 1" FNPT. I'm thinking about replacing the heads with 1 1/2" fittings. You need to read my other thread to see what all is involved there. I got two of these Whole House Water Filters by Watts/Pentek (http://www.waterfilters.net/Big-Clear-Whole-House-Filter-Housing_p_41-575.html). I made special effort to get the clear 20" housings which are soon to disappear (at least according to Pentek). I simply want to see what's going on inside the tanks. For one thing, I'm going to do something very radical. And it will involve an agitated visual experience like none other.

Provided that the bottoms of the reservoirs are semi-flat enough for me to work with, I'm going to drill a hole in the bottom of each of them. There's a special apparatus I want to install in them, sealed with Banjo bulkhead connectors. This thing is really going to look ALIEN!!

Most people will look at it and have no idea what's going on with all of the technologies that I'm incorporating in this design. And many won't be able to interpret the actual function of each component. But I'm getting ahead of myself to say that. I could be dead tomorrow, and none of this come to pass. So I should at least wait until I have the reservoirs to decide what truly can be done with this build.

Shingoshi
 
Since you won't have any airflow in and out of the case, I think you should consider full immersion cooling for your case instead of putting an air conditioner inside the pelican case:

  1. Build a liquid proof chambers inside your pelican case - some sort of transparent plastic would probably be the best building material.
  2. Mount your motherboards, power supplies, hard disks, etc. within the chamber.
  3. Fill the chamber with a non-conductive liquid.
  4. Use one or more of your automotive radiators to cool the liquid.

For cooling the CPU's and GPU's you could:

  1. Use standard heatsinks, making sure that they get a good flow of cool liquid fresh from the radiators.
  2. Use liquid cooling loops for them, ideally with one or more matching automotive radiators outside the pelican case. The cooling liquid should probably be the same as that used in the liquid chamber so there's no risk of contamination.

This sort of rig would go far beyond my experience, but you should be able learn more about immersion cooling in the [H] "Cooling & Overclocking" forums.
 
I'm editing this here and now, to avoid any further confusion:
I WILL NOT BE USE AN IMMERSION SYSTEM!!
The suggestion of such has caused others to be distracted from the purpose of this design.
The following suggestion by RagingDragon simply doesn't apply to this project, and never will.

RagingDragon said:
Since you won't have any airflow in and out of the case, I think you should consider full immersion cooling for your case instead of putting an air conditioner inside the pelican case:

  1. Build a liquid proof chambers inside your pelican case - some sort of transparent plastic would probably be the best building material.
  2. Mount your motherboards, power supplies, hard disks, etc. within the chamber.
  3. Fill the chamber with a non-conductive liquid.
  4. Use one or more of your automotive radiators to cool the liquid.

For cooling the CPU's and GPU's you could:

  1. Use standard heatsinks, making sure that they get a good flow of cool liquid fresh from the radiators.
  2. Use liquid cooling loops for them, ideally with one or more matching automotive radiators outside the pelican case. The cooling liquid should probably be the same as that used in the liquid chamber so there's no risk of contamination.

This sort of rig would go far beyond my experience, but you should be able learn more about immersion cooling in the [H] "Cooling & Overclocking" forums.
Click to expand...

The fragility of a liquid chamber of size large enough to contain ALL of my components, isn't something I want to be bound to. Besides, immersion raises the level of cost too high. The fluids alone that must be used would cost too much for the size of chamber that would be required. Additionally, the weight would not be acceptable.

I'm not sure, but I think hard drives would spin slower in a liquid than air. Slower spinning drives are not suitable for a cluster.

I think you need to read this thread (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845) to understand what my intentions are. I'm not changing my design that much from my original goals.

Shingoshi
 
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so... your going to take a giant pelican case, fill it with computers liquid cooled... and still expect it to be portable? unless your going to put the case on a magliner, i dont see this thing being moveable much less portable lol

and seriously... why? im just curious if you have a reason for making this thing or its just a "whats the sickest thing i can do with the biggest pelican case that isnt larger than me" kinda thing

dont get me wrong, if you pull it off it would be really cool, but this is a very custom build (in an expensive pelican) that realistically your probably going to replace the system(s) eventually anyway...

i do love pelicans (ive got one for just about every toy i own hehe) so if you build it definately post pics
 
FLECOM said:
so... your going to take a giant pelican case, fill it with computers liquid cooled... and still expect it to be portable? unless your going to put the case on a magliner, i dont see this thing being moveable much less portable lol

and seriously... why? im just curious if you have a reason for making this thing or its just a "whats the sickest thing i can do with the biggest pelican case that isnt larger than me" kinda thing

dont get me wrong, if you pull it off it would be really cool, but this is a very custom build (in an expensive pelican) that realistically your probably going to replace the system(s) eventually anyway...

i do love pelicans (ive got one for just about every toy i own hehe) so if you build it definately post pics
Click to expand...

If you ever watched Stargate SG1, you would know how those cases were carried from one location to another. And frankly, they had and frequently moved smaller (volume) objects that were much heavier than anything that would have been carried in this Pelican case.

The main point here is containment. To have a single system fully enclosed and prepped to move on notice. As far as further advancements go, this case will be my final build. I will only have to change components within it as the technology progresses. The cooling system will likely never be changed after installation, unless required or indicated by performance parameters. But the design will likely remain fixed. I will only exchange components for those of higher efficiency as they become available. Other than that, this is it.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
If you ever watched Stargate SG1, you would know how those cases were carried from one location to another. And frankly, they had and frequently moved smaller (volume) objects that were much heavier than anything that would have been carried in this Pelican case.

The main point here is containment. To have a single system fully enclosed and prepped to move on notice. As far as further advancements go, this case will be my final build. I will only have to change components within it as the technology progresses. The cooling system will likely never be changed after installation, unless required or indicated by performance parameters. But the design will likely remain fixed. I will only exchange components for those of higher efficiency as they become available. Other than that, this is it.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

im fairly certain that in the show whatever the pelican case contained didnt actually weigh anything lol

and this case weighs in at 40lbs totally empty... so its going to get pretty heavy pretty quick... so sure, you can roll it around with its wheels, but lifting it to put it anywhere would be suicide lol

but ya im very familiar with the 1700 series... i have a 1700 that i use for what its intended ;)
 
You were talking about my BABY!!

It's so funny, because I first thought about this project about a year ago. And then all of a sudden, I just decided to go ahead and do it. Part of my reasoning here was that I got this massive motherboard. It was a Tyan S4985 (which I had to RMA). That board being 16.3x13" is a monster. There simply aren't any cheap cases that will hold a board of that size. But then again, it holds four cpus and 16 dimms. I'm somewhat thinking of getting a Tyan S4992 now. It's the same size with a different set of features.

While the S4985 was expandable to 8 cpus with an expansion board (think of it as the townhouse of computer boards), the S4992 is limited to only 4 cpus, 32 dimm slots and no expansion board. But the S4992 has two x16 pci-e and three x8 pci-e slots. The S4985 has two x4 pci-e slots which are pretty much useless. So that's what drawing me to that board instead. I've decided to hold off on getting the new board until after I have the case to determine just now much volume I have to work with.

And then you need to realize that I have 4 more (S2912) boards besides the main board. Trying to manage the cooling system for five boards (would have been six with the (M4985) expansion board for the S4985) in separate cases wasn't something that I considered optimal. So the Pelican came to mind. And the funny thing is, I didn't go to Pelican because of the TV show. I only realized after choosing it, that it was the case used on the show for weapons transport. It was like, Duh!

And you're right about them not carrying anything that would weigh as much as I will have in this case. In fact, I'm beginning to think I'm a HEADCASE!! I must be f'ng nuts! You really need to see this link to grasp the scope and dimension of this project (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845). This is one of those things I'll be building for the rest of my life. And then not be able do anything other than sit here, look at it and say, "gee, aren't you pretty!

Pretty idiotic is what I'm hoping I don't turn out to be in the long run. So in the absence of long term intensive counseling, I will accept all the advice and encouragement that I can get.

Please sir, be careful. I'm a sensitive soul.... :D

Shingoshi

Also see this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228616&highlight=plateHX+Chiller+Warning!). This guy Naja001 must be or pretty close to being a genius.

Fortunately for me, he's doing the groundwork that I'll be able to follow later in the completion of this project.
 
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I ordered my Pelican case last week. Problem was, because of it's popularity (and possibly the war), this Pelican 1780 Transport case in Olive Drab Green has been in short supply. The company I ordered it from had it back ordered. But then I thought, "why not write Pelican, explain the seriousness of this project and see if they would expedite the shipment. Well, that's exactly what they did. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have lift-off:
Hello. The case you ordered from Optics Planet is shipping out today or tomorrow.

Yvonne Romo
Expeditor
23215 Early Ave. Torrance, CA 90505
www.pelican.com
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I can't give enough praise to the Pelican company for their actions. I hope that in the future, others will be just as inspired to try this project on their own. While this is no SMALL undertaking, the reward of accomplishment should be astronomical. All praise to Stargate SG1 for the inspiration to do something so farfetched as this! In my life, science fiction has played an important role in the formation of my thoughts. It's especially good to something real and practical come about because of it.

The immediate equalization of all knowledge among all beings.
It's a practical choice!
Shingoshi
 
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extide said:
Wow, crazy build! So what are you going to be using these machines for?
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It'll wind up a paper weight! I seriously hope not. But I seem to have the luck for not having any! But at least today I got my reservoirs. Two of them. Each of them are nothing more than ordinary full-house water filter housings with 1" FNPT fittings. They're the large model with 20" filters (https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-2243-20-full-flow-clear-housing-1-press-relief.aspx). I'm still looking around for other parts. I found the (Mazzei #3090) eductor last night that caught my eye. However when I finally found out how much they cost (@$540), I just about died! And crap, I thought they would be perfect for this build. I still think so. I just don't have perfect money for a perfect build. If I could find one used, I might go for it.

Shingoshi
 
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I've just thought of something that is derivative of the concepts of vortex tubes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube
The vortex tube, also known as the Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube, is a mechanical device that separates a compressed gas into hot and cold streams. It has no moving parts.
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Vortex tubes function by the introduction of compressed air into the tube against it's circumference. As a result, the air (or any other gas) is made to spin in the tube at extremely high speed. In the process of doing so, the molecules towards the outside draw heat away from the molecules closest to the center of the tube. And the odd thing is, the vortex tube is then able to produce BOTH hot and cold air from the same device.

But I think I can do the same thing with a liquid, or at least a vapor to be specific. I'm going to start investigating the means to do this inexpensively. I'm certain that it can be done, and still have a completely closed system.

Sometimes, my own mind scares me!

Shingoshi
 
RagingDragon said:
Since you won't have any airflow in and out of the case, I think you should consider full immersion cooling for your case instead of putting an air conditioner inside the pelican case:

  1. Build a liquid proof chambers inside your pelican case - some sort of transparent plastic would probably be the best building material.
  2. Mount your motherboards, power supplies, hard disks, etc. within the chamber.
  3. Fill the chamber with a non-conductive liquid.
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  1. Usually in a full immersion system vital mechanical components with moving parts (hdd, anything with a fan, etc) are going to fail when you introduce them to the liquid, regardless of conductivity. Now I can see a PSU being able to work under a fluid, assuming you replace the fan and figure out if anything needs to be cooled with a heatsink of higher surface area in the fluid rather than just hope the static heat transfer will be enough for all the components (think voltage regulators or whatever, things that might rely on the standard fan airflow would need some kind of heat sink solution, or at least I would assume). The HDD's will need to be sealed from the solution though, I doubt the read heads (which AFAIK actually skim along the surface of the disk on a cushion of air) are going to enjoy reading data through the liquid, not to mention what that will do to the mechanical drive motors.

    Shingoshi said:
    I've just thought of something that is derivative of the concepts of vortex tubes.

    Vortex tubes function by the introduction of compressed air into the tube against it's circumference. As a result, the air (or any other gas) is made to spin in the tube at extremely high speed. In the process of doing so, the molecules towards the outside draw heat away from the molecules closest to the center of the tube. And the odd thing is, the vortex tube is then able to produce BOTH hot and cold air from the same device.

    But I think I can do the same thing with a liquid, or at least a vapor to be specific. I'm going to start investigating the means to do this inexpensively. I'm certain that it can be done, and still have a completely closed system.

    Sometimes, my own mind scares me!

    Shingoshi
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    I really like this idea actually. Even though I'm a student of thermodynamics (engineering major) I've never heard of such a device. Looks really clever, and I'd like to see someone devise a way to integrate this with an advanced cooling system in a PC. It's almost like a vapor Peltier cooler, one side hot and the other cold, except without having any drawback such as power usage.

    The thing is by the nature of such a device (or at least when I think of the concept in my head) you would need a fairly high flow rate to achieve this, depending on the actual size of the device and the speed, temperature, and specific properties (mass density etc) of your gas/fluid.
    EDIT: now that I read your post a bit more carefully you explain this, so I suppose that makes sense. You would really need a constant rate to make it a dependable device, so something like an air compressor would work better if you had a tank/reservoir to act as a capacitor of sorts to smooth out the pulses from the pump... would probably increase the efficiency as well.

    In any case I really like the concepts you're putting to use (or at least contemplating) here. I'll certainly stick around and follow this thread to see what you're thinking of, if only to be another person to bounce ideas off of. :cool:
 
That was a suggested by someone else, which I unequivocally rejected. Using an immersion system in this project would be completely foolish. It would add too much weight with no substantial benefit derived from doing so. So let me put this is bold print, so no one else misses this point.

I WILL NOT USE AN IMMERSION SYSTEM!!

End of story!

Shingoshi
 
I was just commenting on his idea, I agree that full immersion would be unreasonable.
 
I've had one of my major design features declared DOA!! I was thinking of using Mazzei Injectors to function as Venturi Vacuum Generators in this system. The problem seems to be that venturis cannot generate enough vacuum to boil water. If someone else out there has any ideas, I'm open to hearing them. I REALLY NEED HELP HERE!!

I began thinking about creating the equivalent of a MULTIPLE-EFFECT EVAPORATOR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporator#Multiple-effect_evaporators
I was thinking that if one injector alone can't do the job, why not cascade them. I don't know if that's possible, because I don't know how much vacuum a single venturi can generate, to know how many would be required to accomplish this.

I also know that the more devices in the system, the more points are introduced for leakage. So there would be a point of diminishing returns. Whether that would happen before or after the necessary vacuum was created, I don't know.

Assistance is required and appreciated!

Shingoshi
 
saedrin said:
I was just commenting on his idea, I agree that full immersion would be unreasonable.
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But I really need to go back and make that comment earlier in this thread, so that no one else is inclined to be misled by other's comments.

Shingoshi
 
I just got an email this evening that the case has been shipped. I give my thanks again to Pelican for expediting this order. And I'm grateful that the Tactical-Store.com (Optics Planet) followed through on their prompt shipment.

Thanks people!
Shingoshi
 
THIS POST IS IN THE WRONG LOCATION!
Please see this link instead to respond in the right place:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034388063&postcount=109

Someone mentioned using a household compressor for this project. I dismissed it, thinking originally that this machine would be used in any position. I now realize this machine can only be used in an UPRIGHT position, due to the liquid-coolant's reservoirs.

Being that the reservoirs will need to be upright to allow for proper operation, I have removed the rejection of a using a household refrigeration compressor. So, with that now being the case, I'm wanting to know how (im)practical would it be to use a compressor intended for a residential heat-pump? I've been reading up on autocascades lately, and am wondering how using a compressor of that size would allow for the use of gases operating at much lower temperatures? I'm still considering other options...

Shingoshi
 
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Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

Please push the back button and reload the previous window.
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Yeah right, like going back and reloading really helps! NOT!!

Why is it that so often whenever I try to post, I get that message? Is there nothing that can be done about it. The method to get around it is cumbersome at best. And it happens much too regularly to be comfortable!

Shingoshi

After I post this, I'll try and see if the same thing happens again.
 
I'm considering this Shertech CHMNA56T for my pump:
CHMNA56T-2T.jpg

Part No. 0474056
Vendor No. CHMNA56T
Horsepower 2
Voltage 115 / 230
Flow Rate 96 gpm
Maximum Working Pressure 91 Ft. Head
Height 7-1/2"
Length 14-7/8"
Material Noryl
Weight 39 lb

Performance - Standard Models (Water at 70˚)
--------------------------------------------
Model CHMNA5X
HP** 2
GPM of Water at Total Head in Feet*
10 96
20 89
30 83
40 77
50 68
60 58
70 47
80 31
Max Head* 91
(Note: “X” refers to the motor supplied on the pump head. Pump performance is based on pump head, not the motor.)

Based on the (anticipated) number of processors in this system,
I think will be the best pump I could use.

Calculating the expense and performance of this pump against supporting five motherboards, and the cost of building comparable individual cooling-loops and cases for each, the efficiency of this build becomes immediately apparent.
--------------------------------------------

Let's start with the orientation of the case in which these parts will fit. The case will be in a vertical position (standing against a wall) so that the inside of the top (back)* is facing the user, with the bottom (front)* removed.

* This case was meant to lay flat. So the bottom and top sections in a vertical orientation become the back and front sections. I originally intended to have the case simply tipped upward, with the bottom of the case (with it's wheels) facing the user. That would allow for easy movement from one location to another, by simply tipping the case towards you to roll it. But now that I've looked at the need to have a vertically oriented radiator for this build, I'm considering reversing this. So that the wheels would be facing the wall against which it is stood.

The pump will be mounted lengthwise along the bottom. Having the pump head to the left, and the motor towards the right. This will have the outlet of the pump pointing in the vertical. Mounted directly to the pump's outlet will be the 2083X injector (also in vertical orientation).

Drilled and mounted into the bottom of each reservoir will be a banjo bulkhead fittings. On the inside (reservoir) fitting will be mounted a nozzle. On the outside bottom of each reservoir will be the fittings to attach them inline (by one tee and one elbow) and will drain down into the suction of the injector. I'm planning on using a cone with three ports in it allowing for what I hope will be helical vortex.

A vortex in which that twisting stream of liquid flows to drain, will be modified somewhat to look like a corkscrew. This hopefully will happen due to the increased forces pulling the walls of the vortex off-center and downward, causing it to compress. So instead of being the near vertical column we expect, it should look more like a spring. Though the degree of compression in that helical vortex will likely vary.

What will happen is that the turbulent movement of liquid will cause more mixing and thus transfer of heat to the cooling process applied to this reservoir. This will happen because the vortex stream will move into regions it would not have otherwise entered. So while it will be very pretty to look at, it will also be very functional as well.

This is ironic. It could be that the computer which is meant to be a computational environment, becomes the target of it's own analysis.

Shingoshi
 
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So it finally arrived. It was probably the last delivery of the day. But I got it!

I'm just taking the time now to assess what all I can do with it, and how and where I will place things inside of it. While being large, it's still is going to be a very tight squeeze to get everything inside, while being able to service any parts freely. But I'll get it done. Now, it's just a matter of appreciating this one step.

Shingoshi
 
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