Buzzing noise in Forte headphone only during 3D audio

Hi all.

For the first time since getting my Forte a couple of months ago I went to play some games with 3D audio using headphones connected to the rear headphone output.

I followed the headphone setup instructions here. My headphones are Shure E4g IEMs (like E4c but black. Specs say 29ohms. Forte drivers 1.1, Vista x64 SP1.

The noise floor was imperceptible in Vista Aero. I'm playing the original F.E.A.R. at the moment. Immediately after launching while in the menus I could hear a digital sounding buzzing. When entering the game it changed in pitch and character wildly. My last save was somewhere fairly quiet, while standing in one place and looking around the tone was changing in pitch and character, following my movements. If I didn't move the mouse/view, it stayed constant. CPU, GPU and HDD activity do not influence the sound (unlike what I've heard from laptops and cheap onboards).

These observations lead me to believe the noise is originating from the 3D sound mapping somehow, and isn't simply RFI. I have never heard any sounds of this type with my speakers (Klipsch ProMedia 5.1)

I wasn't sure if the old technology in FEAR might be using Alchemy and somehow be an issue. I fired up Crysis:Warhead and it was there too, although quieter and hard to detect with the increased ambient sound in the jungle scene (Shore Leave, I think). It was definitely present in the menu but will come and go depending on what effects are being used.

I tried turning off CMSS-3D and it didn't seem to change anything. I should also probably mention that with these IEMs I'm only setting my volume at about 6% and it is plenty loud enough. People with other cans may have this problem but simply not be able to hear it with higher output needs and/or the lack of the isolating nature of the IEMs.

I haven't done an exceptional amount of troubleshooting but I wanted to see if this is something people have experienced in certain conditions, if its settings, or if its RMA time (hoping not, just for the inconvenience factor).

Thanks,

I haven't confirmed the pattern yet, but I've just found I hear noises like this coming from my system itself but I need to stick my ear to the rear of the case to hear it. I will need to work on determining if they are identical to each other.

This is like noise typically described as "coil whine", but there's character to it depending on what's going on. Never observed anything while my Audigy 2ZS was installed in the system, otherwise unchanged. It didn't have a headphone amp, though, and I was just plugging in to the headphone out of my Klipsch control pod.



Power supply: Corsair HX620
GPU: BFG GTX260 216 OC

Looks like some on Head-Fi are reporting noise that sounds kind of the same. I have tried disabling all sound inputs, as best I can tell, using the mixer. No effect.

The Forte is in the second-farthest port away from the GPU. I think there will be an issue with motherboard connectors if I try to move it to the farthest. Either way, it isn't right next to the GPU.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/auzen-x-fi-forte-7-1-a-405213/

I had the same problem: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1430215

My "solution" was to go back to my x-fi xtreme music. I submitted a support ticket to auzentech, and they gave me a checklist to go through, with taping the bracket as a proposed solution. I haven't tried this yet after the frustration of moving it to different pci-e slots and reinstalling the drivers, but here is their reply if you can take something from it.

Wow, that reply is a little...painful.

Thanks for providing it in its entirety. I'm already in a far away slot, I've muted all of the inputs, obviously the ground of the speaker system and the PC reaches the Forte (duh! that's usually a good thing) and I have no front panel connections of any sort.

Do you interpret the tape as needing to be a strip that isolates the entire backplate, or just something jimmied in the top of the plate "hopefully" elminating contact for the rest of the plate. I figure that no matter what you do the bottom tab of the plate is going to slip into the slot in the case so I'm not sure how you can actually achieve isolation...

I read your other thread. How much noise from "other things" were on your Forte. Mine seems to only exhibit the noise that's also audible outside of the case. For this reason I'm inclined not to blame RFI but blame bus or power noise. All of my components are quality, I suppose the GTX260 itself is the most suspect but mine is far from the only one which creates audible noise. Perhaps the NV reference design has some flaws, but then all reference design vendors will have the same problem.

I received the same email from Auzentech, and I did tape the card, a clear layer of electrical tape that covers the entire backplate, but to no avail.

Okay, well this is interesting. I was going to take off the break-out cable to see if it had something to do with that, and in the process I had unscrewed one of the base screws that holds the backplate unto the card. For the heck of it, I decided to test it, and like magic, the whine is gone.

I'd imagine there's still some contact with the backplate since this is the case. So now, at least for me, it's a matter of breaking the contact between that screw and the plate/card.

Knuit said:

Okay, well this is interesting. I was going to take off the break-out cable to see if it had something to do with that, and in the process I had unscrewed one of the base screws that holds the backplate unto the card. For the heck of it, I decided to test it, and like magic, the whine is gone.

I'd imagine there's still some contact with the backplate since this is the case. So now, at least for me, it's a matter of breaking the contact between that screw and the plate/card.

Click to expand...

Ahh. I haven't dug into it yet, but perhaps it's easier to isolate the card from the backplate than the backplate from the chassis. That's worth looking at. Perhaps one could even look at nylon screws to mount the backplate once applying an insulator.

I need that HD15 breakout, though. I usually use 5.1 speakers but sometimes want to game using the rear panel headphone amp output.

Of course we shouldn't need to do any of this with a premium card such as the Forte, considering I didn't notice it with my Creative Audigy in the otherwise identical system.

Thanks,

I read your other thread. How much noise from "other things" were on your Forte. Mine seems to only exhibit the noise that's also audible outside of the case. For this reason I'm inclined not to blame RFI but blame bus or power noise. All of my components are quality, I suppose the GTX260 itself is the most suspect but mine is far from the only one which creates audible noise. Perhaps the NV reference design has some flaws, but then all reference design vendors will have the same problem.

Click to expand...

I assume you are talking about coil noise? I can't hear anything over the low woosh of my case fans, so I agree that it is more likely to be bus/power related. I don't hear any noise outside the case, only through my headphones when the gpu is loaded. If it was RFI, I would think that my xtrememusic would pick it up as well, but it does not. I have a HX520, so I don't believe it is power-related either.

Of course we shouldn't need to do any of this with a premium card such as the Forte, considering I didn't notice it with my Creative Audigy in the otherwise identical system.

Click to expand...

Tell me about it. The aural pleasure bestowed upon my ears is the only thing that is keeping me searching for a solution.

proooooof said:

I assume you are talking about coil noise? I can't hear anything over the low woosh of my case fans, so I agree that it is more likely to be bus/power related. I don't hear any noise outside the case, only through my headphones when the gpu is loaded. If it was RFI, I would think that my xtrememusic would pick it up as well, but it does not. I have a HX520, so I don't believe it is power-related either.

Click to expand...

I haven't yet done an extensive comparison, but I believe that in my case I am only hearing noise on the Forte that matches the GPU coil noise. I'm not hearing other stuff from disk access or CPU load which is sometimes heard on sound card output. I just wanted to be clear that it was only one source of noise, not a dog's breakfast of EMI/RFI.

I haven't yet done an extensive comparison, but I believe that in my case I am only hearing noise on the Forte that matches the GPU coil noise. I'm not hearing other stuff from disk access or CPU load which is sometimes heard on sound card output. I just wanted to be clear that it was only one source of noise, not a dog's breakfast of EMI/RFI.

Click to expand...

I understand what you mean. I don't remember if I ever heard cpu or hdd noise, but I'm planning on tackling this problem sometime this week and will look for those symptoms.

proooooof said:

I understand what you mean. I don't remember if I ever heard cpu or hdd noise, but I'm planning on tackling this problem sometime this week and will look for those symptoms.

Click to expand...

Excellent. I'd love it if you kept this thread in the loop. I haven't had any time in the evenings to start pulling the system apart, applying tape and troubleshooting.

I did hear back from Auzentech and received the same survey that's already been posted here.

The first couple of statements just kill me. We think you may hear noise because you connected speakers... un huh... I know that would be more of a ground-loop 120Hz hum scenario but still...

Knuit said:

Okay, well this is interesting. I was going to take off the break-out cable to see if it had something to do with that, and in the process I had unscrewed one of the base screws that holds the backplate unto the card. For the heck of it, I decided to test it, and like magic, the whine is gone.

I'd imagine there's still some contact with the backplate since this is the case. So now, at least for me, it's a matter of breaking the contact between that screw and the plate/card.

Click to expand...

Success! Isolating the backplate from the case with some tissue paper completely fixed the problem for me. No more GPU buzz. Now I just need to come up with a less ghetto fix.

OK let me try this isolating thing. I've had this problem going on for a while and figured it was just the pci express bus is faulty on my mobo.

UnclePauly09 said:

OK let me try this isolating thing. I've had this problem going on for a while and figured it was just the pci express bus is faulty on my mobo.

Click to expand...

This is how I did it:





Anyone done a less ghetto fix yet?

That is pretty ghetto! I think I'm going to start with the screw and the backplate, as Knuit suggested:

Okay, well this is interesting. I was going to take off the break-out cable to see if it had something to do with that, and in the process I had unscrewed one of the base screws that holds the backplate unto the card. For the heck of it, I decided to test it, and like magic, the whine is gone.

Click to expand...

This thread may lead me to the last day with my xtrememusic, which has started to screech every once in awhile. I bought this forte to replace it and I want it to work right, dammit!

Very interesting thread. I have been waiting for my Forte for over a month now since it has been on backorder. Do you think Auzentech might have fixed this with a new revision and hence the long backorder???

Also, I plan to run SPDIF Coax to my external DAC. Are folks using digital out experiencing this same noise???

@mike: If they had it fixed, they probably wouldn't still be sending surveys to the current owners to help them identify the problem. Maybe... but probably not.

@Death: Thanks for the pics. The problem is that I also need to use the HD15 audio breakout for my 5.1 speaker set up. Connecting those screws along with the weight loading will probably cause a connection, especially on the tab at the bottom of the plate. Hopefully I'll get a chance this weekend to try something, I've had absolutely no time this week to look at it.

OK, I've been able to eliminate this noise.

The first thing I tried was the remove the backplate from the card and basically laminate it with blue masking tape trimmed with an X-acto knife. (I have better materials but I didn't want to waste them on a test). I put all the screws back in, including the one from the backplate to the case and fired it up.

At this point the noise was still there.

With the IEMs in my ears I went to the rear of the case and unplugged the HD15. I noticed while manipulating it that the volume of the noise changed - sometimes better, sometimes worse.

I decided to remove the screws fastening the HD15 to the backplate. As I was removing the top one the noise went away momentarily. With the screws removed I could still get it to come and go by pressing and moving things and sometimes it came back faintly on its own.

I removed the screw holding the backplate into the case and the noise went away. I really had to push things around to hear the noise at this point.

I found a longer screw of the correct thread pitch and put an insulating grommet on it and reinstalled it to hold the card in place. No noise. I put the screws for the HD15 back in. No noise. I reconnected the HD15. No noise. If I press the backplate around in it's slot firmly I can get it to come back. With the weight of the connected HD15 hanging off of it, sometimes it can be heard very faintly.

I buttoned everything back up and reinstalled my case into my desk enclosure with all external cables routed and managed normally. Noise is gone.

While going through this process I observed that I *could* faintly hear some window drags and other GPU actitvity in low-3D mode on the desktop. This is also gone in addition to the max-clock 3D activity.

It's a "win", but shouldn't be necessary in the Forte's market segment. After doing this the noise floor is undetectable with these IEMs, and they are sensitive enough that 10% volume when on the headphone amp is kind of uncomfortable.

I am now using an impedance modification cable (used inline to convert Etymotic ER-4P IEMs to ER-4S IEMs - google it if interested). This changes the character a little and leads to more detailed highs, although not as profound a difference as with Etymotic IEMs. This added some attenuation but I also added one inline so I can now run the volume at 50%. Of course if I did this from the beginning, I may never have consciously heard the GPU noise but that's not an "out" for Auzen.

Do you think you can post some pics of your fix? Thanks

So it sounds like folks with this same issue are all using analog outs correct? Would SPDIF optical/coax have the same problem?

I will post pics as soon as I have a chance.

Yes, I am using the analog outputs, but I am pretty sure while doing some research that I saw someone indicate that they heard it on digital output as well. If I read it correctly, it was only one person though.

I would expect it to be FAR more likely to be an analog (only) problem, but who knows...

And this buzzing sounds is only when using 3d audio as your title says?

@ Slider 19
The Sound appears always when a 3D application is used. It's the graphics card thats causing the interference. I had the exact same problem and this thread helped me a million solving this issue.

@ Surly73
Thanks a million. I was trying to solve this with the help of my vendor but he just lead me to the "solution" that the buzz could be eliminated by some users by muting the Front Panel Mic. Funnily the buzzing-sound was changing according to what was visible on the screen (dark or light scenes, smoke or lots of lights). So we figured out pretty quick, that it was a hardware related issue, somehow caused by the graphics card.

Driver changes or muting the mics didn't work for me, but your solution did!
I recognised, that I could change the "volume" and intensity of the interference by turning the thumbscrew holding the card in the slot. Just losening it didn't completely mute the buzz, so i exchanged it with a plastic screw plus 2 plastic spacer plates between the screw and the case. I noticed that the interference was still there just pushing the card in the slot and against the chassis, so the plastic screw and spacer help creating a distance between the cards backpanel and the pc-chassis...

It's important to put a spacer between card and case - if necessary use a second one between screw and card for better grip.

I think it is pretty cool, that the problem can be solved this easily. The damn problem was to figure out, whether the buzz is caused by drivers (sound or graphics card), the os or the computer hardware. I hope this thread helps a lot more people with the same problem (apparently lots of creative x-fi users seem to have it as well). What makes it a heck more difficult is the circumstance that a lot of users have no problems at all, but the same drivers / os's running --- let me guess, they have chassis with plastic or tool-less expansion card fixings, which don't transmit the noise...

All right... just wanted to let you guys know, that this thread was an awesome help! Thumbs up!

Now the Auzentech X-fi Forte 7.1 is just an aural pleasure... yay!

Oh my god it worked!

I folded over a paper towel and cut out a piece small enough to fit under the backplate where it screws into the case. It was enough to separate the backplate from the case and voila! No more buzzing noise. I only hear a little bit of noise during the crysis menu, which gave me a strong buzzing noise without the fix (because the framerate shot up to 1000 fps or whatever). Now it is only slightly softer than the softest classical music I have, and is easily drowned out by the menu music.

Also, I have to press my headphones against my ears to hear it, so it might be more noticeable with iems. Considering how simple the fix was and how it more or less fixed the problem, I am satisfied. Now i just need to get over to a hardware store and get some plastic screws or whatever you folks recommend to fix it permanently.

Update:
I've permanently fixed the problem with 5 paper washers. Two for each of the breakout cable screws (one on each side of the bracket) and one for the other screw. No noise, and no more ghetto tissue paper!

Can you post some pics? Thanks

Slider19 said:

Can you post some pics? Thanks

Click to expand...

I've discovered that using 5 washers was raising the bracket up enough to touch the metal around the headphone jack, so here's a slightly updated version:

You'll need some scotch tape, a knife/razor, and three non-conductive washers (or more tape).

1. Apply the tape along the inside of the bracket like so:


2. Use your knife to cut a little slit in the tape at the center of each hole.

3. Gently push the bracket onto the card, the slits should let the IO stuff push through.

4. Trim the excess tape if you want.

5. Use some non-conductive washers when you attach the screws. If you don't have washers you could use tape again.


6. You're done. Enjoy your buzz free audio bliss.

I suppose you could also just paint the bracket black or whatever. As long as you break the metal-to-metal contact between the case and the sound card the buzz should go away.

Thanks, much appreciated!

edit: Where did you get the washers from?

Slider19 said:

Where did you get the washers from?

Click to expand...

Dunno, I had them in my big bag of screws and stuff. They're old motherboard standoff washers.

Sorry I haven't posted pics, I've been too slammed to even read here. I'll still try to get to it, although my solution is nothing special.

I had the problem.

I checked inside my case and noticed my card was touching the motherboard heatpipe. Moved it to a lower pci-e slot and bingo.

lol

mike_j_johnson said:

Very interesting thread. I have been waiting for my Forte for over a month now since it has been on backorder. Do you think Auzentech might have fixed this with a new revision and hence the long backorder???

Also, I plan to run SPDIF Coax to my external DAC. Are folks using digital out experiencing this same noise???

Click to expand...

i just ordered one of these cards from microcenter !!! should be here tommrow.

mike_j_johnson said:

Very interesting thread. I have been waiting for my Forte for over a month now since it has been on backorder. Do you think Auzentech might have fixed this with a new revision and hence the long backorder???

Also, I plan to run SPDIF Coax to my external DAC. Are folks using digital out experiencing this same noise???

Click to expand...

mike_j_johnson said:

So it sounds like folks with this same issue are all using analog outs correct? Would SPDIF optical/coax have the same problem?

Click to expand...

No.

Why on earth would you pay for such a nice card and then use S/PDIF out? You are bypassing all that pricey/great sounding analog circuitry. If all you wanted was S/PDIF out, you could have gotten away with a $30 soundcard or USB adapter.

Hi all:

I apologize repeatedly for being late with posting my "fix" pics. I've just been too slammed to even read this site let alone post.

Here are some crappy pics of my crappy, but functional, fix.

The key seems to be isolating the card from the case, not from the motherboard or the devices you connect. Ground connections in the analog DB15 aren't and issue, for instance, in particular the screws which mount the connector which some thought was the fix.

The rubber isolator used to mount the card was the final insulator which did it for me. At some point I'll redo this with some transparent, semi-sticky teflon film I have around - more like laminating.

What responsibility does Auzen have in this? They know about the issue - shouldn't they be giving us all updated cards or something?

This should be in the ghetto mods post. It's so full of win.

Jodiuh said:

This should be in the ghetto mods post. It's so full of win.

Click to expand...

I never said it was pretty. "Proof of concept" often isn't, but it works.

A better point is that this isn't a "mod", it's a REPAIR, and it shouldn't be necessary from someone who self-promotes themselves as "high end analog audio" like Auzen.

Wasn't necessary on mine.

i just installed the Forte tonight. I ordered it online from microcenter and i like to report i have no buzzing and did not experience it at all. I played 3 games with my headphones pluged in L4d2 , TF2, Killing floor. None of the games caused a buzzing sound at all.

Iam using a Cooler master 590 case with the plastic tabs that lock into place and hold the expansion cards into their slots. This is part of its screwless design. I have a corsair 850HX PSU and its connected to an APC commerical grade 1400va. Iam not sure if anything here made a difference but i have not experience the buzzing. Maybe auzentech fixed there cards or maybe its my setup. I don't know. I'm really liking this card though over my creative X-fi. It sounds clearer and it feels like it has alot more power or something. Obviously with the headphones i noticed it sounded much better with the headphone amp and everyhing. IT is making think of getting better headphones then my sennheiser 497hd's
I installed the drivers off of Auzentech's site. Everything went smoothly.