Graphics person... returned Dell u2410 for Apple 24" ACD

M

MrRoper

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
80
Hello,
i have currently a dell u2410 that i am trying to decide if i should return or not, really need to make a descision soon and i want to make the right one for me. but i have tried tft centrals' icc profile and also manually adjusted the settings , eyeballed it to my best guestimation.... i am a designer by trade and need to have the color's be as accurate as possible... it's not horrible, but not nearly as accurate colorwise as my dell 2007wfp

Can anyone in the design/imaging/photography world suggest their settings that worked for them ? i'm in standard mode (i also tried SRGB and Adobe) still i either get a purple hue overtone or a pink hue overtone over the entire monitor in different modes... aside from the purple / pink hue problem , the reds are still off a bit ... I'm willing to use whatever settings are best, but i've already spent the $600 and if i buy a calibration tool for $100 to $200.... , this is why i'm reconsidering the purchase.

My Current eyeballed settings are :

Standard mode

Brightness 26
Contrast 47

Gamma: PC
mode : graphics
Gain: R-89 G-98 B-95
Offset: R-50 G-50 B-50
Hue: R-59 G-50 B-51 C-48 M-26 Y-50
Saturation: R-41 G-37 B-50 C-50 M-30 Y-50



i am hoping someone in the industry can help provide some settings for me so i can really determine if i should return this u2410 for an apple 24" cinema display or possibly the HP LP2475w or NEC , Initially i only wanted to spend about $500 or so but i'd be willing to go as far as $900 or so...

I'm wrestling with this right now, your educated and/or professional input is appreciated
thank you
MrRoper
 
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MrRoper said:
i am hoping someone in the industry can help provide some settings for me so i can really determine if i should return this u2410 for an apple 24" cinema display or possibly the HP LP2475w or NEC , Initially i only wanted to spend about $500 or so but i'd be willing to go as far as $900 or so...

I'm wrestling with this right now, your educated and/or professional input is appreciated
thank you
MrRoper
Click to expand...

I've the U2410 and I calibrated it using EyeOne Display 2 under sRGB mode and the color is acceptable. There is a bit grain in dark patches, due to Dell's color processing of Wide Gamut Standard mode to sRGB. However, you can use Standard mode if the LCD is hardware calibrated and viewing / editing photos under Photoshop. Otherwise, the colors won't be accurate.

You can check out the other thread on U2410.

If I were to start all over again, I'd get the Apple LED Cinema display or NEC 2490WUXi. Both of these are non-wide gamut LCDs and the colors are pretty accurate out of the box.

The only problem with Apple LED CD is that connection is via mini Display Port only.
 
Thanks for you reply,
i've read most of that thread over the last 4-5 days and after trying to tweek settings and custom icc profile. , i have ended up in srgb mode seems most accurate at least by my best eyeball... There is a subtle purple haze over the monitor, you get used to it but walk away for a bit and look back, it knda screams out at u. The reds also seem borderline magenta no matter what Setting i try to tweek. I love the style, controls, inputs, pip all cool, but with color matching being my focus and gaming , movies and surfing second

I am very close to returning this an picking up either an apple 24" cinema display with this Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter or maybe the Lacie.......
EDIT: scratch that the lacie 320 is a 20 inch. And the lacie 324 is out of my reach monetarily...
Im checkin out also the NEC LCD2490WUXi-BK which is roughly about $1k U.S.

The apple and lacie are both expensive, maybe i should just buy a calibration tool and keep the u2410, ahhhhhhhhh! i dont know what to do .... :(

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Calibrating a monitor does not negate the fact that it has wide color gamut. Unfortunately, wide color gamut is the "new black" so all monitors (to the best of my knowledge) has it. The only exception being the NEC LCD2490WUXi, of course.
 
eeeegadd .... thanks for your input, i have been searching around with the intention to buckle down and purchase an ACD 24" cinema display but the only way to use it with a PC seems to be to buy a powered / active converter. so $899 + $180 + Tax = roughly $1150 US then if want a calibration tool + another $200 eeeek. the NEC LCD2490WUXi seems great, but i read about some input lag associated with this monitor, which does seem to sway my opinion since i will ALSO be using this monitor for video and gaming occaisonally. I also found the Lacie 324" for under $1,000.00 , but it's a spva panel :( Eizo's are ****** expensive too can't seem to find one with an ips for under a grand.

I'm running out of options here :(
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MrRoper said:
eeeegadd .... thanks for your input, i have been searching around with the intention to buckle down and purchase an ACD 24" cinema display but the only way to use it with a PC seems to be to buy a powered / active converter. so $899 + $180 + Tax = roughly $1150 US then if want a calibration tool + another $200 eeeek. the NEC LCD2490WUXi seems great, but i read about some input lag associated with this monitor, which does seem to sway my opinion since i will ALSO be using this monitor for video and gaming occaisonally. I also found the Lacie 324" for under $1,000.00 , but it's a spva panel :( Eizo's are ****** expensive too can't seem to find one with an ips for under a grand.

I'm running out of options here :(
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Click to expand...

I would suggest that you consider several things and look at your financial limits one more time.

General.
The NEC 2490WUXi has been the best LCD monitor overall for both consumer-to-professional market and the most successful LCD monitor model released over many years (most likely ever released).

Responsiveness in games.
The NEC 2490WUXi is not slower than any quality monitor.

Movies.
The NEC 2490WUXi provides the best video quality achievable on a PC monitor so far.

Eizos, LaCies
There is no match among those brands.

Don't confuse the NEC 2490WUXi with 2490WUXi2

People around the world are biting their elbows now because the original NEC 2490WUXi is still available in the US only (I guess).

If you have a chance to get the original 2490WUXi - take that chance.
Time is running out.
 
MrRoper said:
eeeegadd .... thanks for your input, i have been searching around with the intention to buckle down and purchase an ACD 24" cinema display but the only way to use it with a PC seems to be to buy a powered / active converter. so $899 + $180 + Tax = roughly $1150 US then if want a calibration tool + another $200 eeeek. the NEC LCD2490WUXi seems great, but i read about some input lag associated with this monitor, which does seem to sway my opinion since i will ALSO be using this monitor for video and gaming occaisonally. I also found the Lacie 324" for under $1,000.00 , but it's a spva panel :( Eizo's are ****** expensive too can't seem to find one with an ips for under a grand.

I'm running out of options here :(
.
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Click to expand...

There just isn't a whole lot of options for high quality 24" LCD monitor that is priced reasonably.

Your cheapest option is to buy the Eye One Display 2 and calibrate the monitor under sRGB mode. You get the most accurate color this way.

Apple ACD 24" will get you pretty accurate color out of the box, so you don't need a calibration device, but like you said, it is expensive and for me, it has a glare screen :(

And your last choice is the NEC 2490WUXi. There are just no other decent choices without seriously breaking the bank...
 
Thanks for ur input, appreciate all the feedback, love these forums...
Anyway, i was almost 100% going to save myself some money but being a professional, i dont think it makes sense to keep this u2410... Now ive dropped my brightness down to 5 or lower even at zero i can still see the slight purple or pink haze it screams out at me (not to be confused with color uniformity, my u2410 is perfect by specs) however the dither is killing me, its not as crisp as what im used to on my 2007wfpb s-ips panel lcd.... seems a bit better under W7 but the reds are still on the magenta side. By consumer standards this u2410 is a great monitor, but I guess my eye has become a bit more critical from photo/design work

at this point i'm going to go with either the NEC2490WUXI-BK or the 24inch ACD w/ converter which still comes in slightly cheaper then the NEC. I'm wrestling with myself ..... Ahhhhhhhhh!

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Ok, i've finally made a descision.... just can't deal with the image quality, also after some prolonged usage i can see this monitor will strain my eyes

u2410 is in process of return, ordered an Apple 24" Cinema display
i'm willing to deal with the glossy surface and lack of connectivity. After all i dont use my monitors for anything but the pc. If i need a screen for ps or xbox or whatever, i have a samsung 650 series 46" 120hz that does plenty fine... I just hope i made the right choice and don't run into any issues using the dvi to display converter... I could find no reviews of anyone actually using it yet. Guess i'm takin the plunge... supposedly it was built for and tested with a 24" ACD So crossin my fingers...
 
MrRoper said:
Ok, i've finally made a descision.... just can't deal with the image quality, also after some prolonged usage i can see this monitor will strain my eyes

u2410 is in process of return, ordered an Apple 24" Cinema display
i'm willing to deal with the glossy surface and lack of connectivity. After all i dont use my monitors for anything but the pc. If i need a screen for ps or xbox or whatever, i have a samsung 650 series 46" 120hz that does plenty fine... I just hope i made the right choice and don't run into any issues using the dvi to display converter... I could find no reviews of anyone actually using it yet. Guess i'm takin the plunge... supposedly it was built for and tested with a 24" ACD So crossin my fingers...
Click to expand...

Im in the same boat. Im not satisfied with my 2490wuxi since it has backlight uniformity issue and AG sparkles.
Im also keeping my eye on ACD 24" but still havent decided since i have seen slight uniformity issue on the unit i saw at J & R.

Anyway what converter you are using for DVI -> MDP?
 
rosh said:
Im in the same boat. Im not satisfied with my 2490wuxi since it has backlight uniformity issue and AG sparkles.
Im also keeping my eye on ACD 24" but still havent decided since i have seen slight uniformity issue on the unit i saw at J & R.

Anyway what converter you are using for DVI -> MDP?
Click to expand...
ya i've been following your thread ;) , i jumped over the 2490 and went to the 24" acd, we'll see, i'll let ya know how it all seems to work if you can wait that long.


but here's the converter i purchased, found it for $159 instead of $179 though
http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-DVI-to-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-p-17859.html
 
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Ya, thanks, im waiting to hear from you abt ACD

Actually there is another cheap convertor

Gefen DVI to Mini DisplayPort Converter (EXT-DVI-2-MDP)

something like $80 at McMall (anyway they dnt have stock right now i guess)
 
rosh said:
Ya, thanks, im waiting to hear from you abt ACD

Actually there is another cheap convertor

Gefen DVI to Mini DisplayPort Converter (EXT-DVI-2-MDP)

something like $80 at McMall (anyway they dnt have stock right now i guess)
Click to expand...
hmm but that converter needs to be powered from what i'm reading. besides, i think that Gefen one is MDP source to DVI and not DVI source to MDP which is what we would need. i've not found any others to this point, one other that is about to be released but not ready for retail yet apparently
 
MrRoper said:
hmm but that converter needs to be powered from what i'm reading. besides, i think that Gefen one is MDP source to DVI and not DVI source to MDP which is what we would need. i've not found any others to this point, one other that is about to be released but not ready for retail yet apparently
Click to expand...

Ya, the one you purchased should be better according to their specs. BTW frm where u purchased the ACD?.
 
rosh said:
Ya, the one you purchased should be better according to their specs. BTW frm where u purchased the ACD?.
Click to expand...
i was thinking to buy from a reseller but, i ordered it directly from apple online
I'm trying to find the link for the other converter that is soon to be released, all they had was jpeg mockups of the device though....

EDIT: here ya go, almost released.... http://estore.circuitassembly.com/products/DVI-to-Mini-Displayport-Adapter.html#

and then i ran across this, only review i've found thusfar, he's connecting a ps3 to the 24 acd via AT-DP200 and HDMI Scaler http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=801855 pretty cool, jumpin through hoops a bit but must be beautiful to see in person
 
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I'm surprised to see your hue controls actaually being used (sepcifically magenta). Once you get pass +/- 2 on them it introduces some weird artifacting into the picture. Have you avoided this?
 
Yes , sorry the settings are not the same anymore as in the OP... But i have tried as many different settings as possible. also keeping the hue levels within +2 or -2 as suggested in other threads
 
i had to cancel the order for the acd online, till i get the atlona converter in the mail. it still hasn't shipped out yet :( guess that's what i get for no tax and free shipping .... but once i get the converter in the mail, i'm going to walk into an apple store, buy the ACD there. cash and carry. that way i have the full 14 days to return the acd in the event of any problems... i'm anxious to say the least...
 
Does apple cut 15% off as restocking fee when you return it?. I guess yes, according to the chat i had with apple. B & H is great and no restocking fee for returns. Also if you are a student or related to education/university you will get $100 off from apple.

BTW im returning all of my four 2490WUXi back.
 
rosh said:
Does apple cut 15% off as restocking fee when you return it?. I guess yes, according to the chat i had with apple. B & H is great and no restocking fee for returns. Also if you are a student or related to education/university you will get $100 off from apple.

BTW im returning all of my four 2490WUXi back.
Click to expand...

good to know..TY.. Guess ill try b and h... tigerdirect isn't being so direct, damn thing hasnt shipped out yet :( . Calling them today to find out wtf is going on
 
Thanks for the link. At this point i guess i will continue to wait for the at-dp200 since its supposed to have been made with and tested on the acd.. But i spoke with them again and its on back order from atlona ( way to keep up with the demand )...

Anyway, supposed to be delivered to tigerdirect by monday, i was told it would be on its way to me by tuesday the latest... this is dragging on forever , ugh...
 
Monday came and went... no tracking number for the atlona :( ....
apparently it's on backorder everywhere... I'm crossin my fingers that it will ship out to me from TigerD today, gonna call them soon.

At any rate, i just heard a rumor from a friend that B & H is somewhat notorious for selling a refurb as new?? Anyone heard anything to this nature ? now i'm iffy on where i should buy the acd from
 
Grrrrrr ! talked to Atlona today, fuggin any orders placed anywhere after October 15, 2009 won't be filled until the end of November. Not even a concrete date , Atlona you really suck
 
At last...
received the AT-DP200 and finally was able to go out and pick up the ACD. i bought it direct from the apple store, since they told me if there were dead pixels or color inconsistencies that i didn't like, they would take it back or replace it with a new one without a restocking fee. walked in and 3 min later was on my way home...

I'm soooooo happy i returned the Dell u2410. The ACD is beautiful to look at even powered down, it's absolutely stunning !! The colors look like they are supposed to, consistent from corner to corner, there is NO purple or pink haze over the lcd. The clarity is amazing!! love it. The reds look like reds, maroon looks like maroon! go figure.

i haven't gone through any calibration yet, but simply turning down the brightness to about 30% and everything looks like it does, or better than my dell 2007WFPb s-ips panel. The viewing angle left to right is unmatched of all the monitor's i've viewed. Played a good 30-40 min of crysis last night and watched a 720 movie and what can i say, it's a "Cinema" display, movies and games look incredible!

No buttons on the monitor is a tiny bit odd to me but i'll get used to it i guess. The dvi cord atlona gives you is really short, since my tower is on the floor i prefer to keep the AT-DP200 (does produce a little heat) on the table and use a traditional 4-foot 6-foot dvi cable. The converter seems to be working great, no problems so far.
 
3DChipset said:
How's the ghosting on that ACD display MrRoper when you're playing Crysis? Any ghosting?
Click to expand...
I played a little more this morning, i'm not noticing any ghosting at all when playing crysis
It's early to tell yet since i only set it up last night, but i'm falling in love with this thing. I'm very happy at this point.
 
Nice to hear that you finally got your ACD. How about the backlight uniformity?. Could u post some pics of raw colors (like white, black....)?. How do you control the brightness and stuff since you dont have any control from windows?. What do you think about the reflection?
 
hi rosh, yea, felt like forever. ty
backlight uniformity seems good to me, there's a low glow from the outter edges when viewing black but minimal and its a uniform glow around, as opposed to my 2007wfpb which has more of a spot light effect from the corners... I'm controlling the brightness/contrast/hue via nvidia control panel, soon i'll prolly give a color icc profile a try as well.

The reflection doesn't bother me that much, although i have to say when your looking at anything with a semi large black area, you WILL notice reflections, my flat screen TV is on the wall behind me, i can watch a movie in the reflection on the ACD if on a black background, does that count as PIP ? :p ... at certain points i'm looking at myself slightly depending on the opacity of the color background on the screen, only on opaque solids, gradients do not expose the reflection so noticably.

I took a few pics below (the digital pics, under low lighting dont do the ACD justice) white, blue and red but it's difficult to photograph the black, all you see is reflection in the photo so i didn't post it. the white pic below is under low lighting, i'll try to retake white.







rosh, everytime i leave the room and come back i'm commenting in my head about how nice the picture is, vibrant the colors are, crisp the image is... really love it
 
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here are a few pics from ice age 1080p HD on the ACD (you of course do not see the half-tone like pattern when viewing in RL, it's crystal clear)












 
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wow, the speakers and webcam both work ! i was expecting that the only thing that would work was the usb ports on the back. but all of it does :)
 
rosh said:
Does apple cut 15% off as restocking fee when you return it?. I guess yes, according to the chat i had with apple. B & H is great and no restocking fee for returns. Also if you are a student or related to education/university you will get $100 off from apple.

BTW im returning all of my four 2490WUXi back.
Click to expand...

Rosh

What the heck is wrong with 4 2490wuxi.s???
Man I had my mind almost made up that's the best monitor for me????
 
Mr. Roper,

Based on your comments about your new LCD Apple Cinema Display 24", I decided to get one myself.

I have the Atlona adapter an everything.

I noticed you said you dropped your brightness to 30%... How did you do this? Did you use your video card controls, or do you have some sort of screen dimming software?

I've been trying to find a way to access the monitor backlighting directly, but I've yet to find something that will do it in Vista.

Also, how did you get the internal camera to work? Did you install iSight drivers? And if so, where did you find them?

Many thanks!
 
mantispid said:
Mr. Roper,

Based on your comments about your new LCD Apple Cinema Display 24", I decided to get one myself.

I have the Atlona adapter an everything.

I noticed you said you dropped your brightness to 30%... How did you do this? Did you use your video card controls, or do you have some sort of screen dimming software?

I've been trying to find a way to access the monitor backlighting directly, but I've yet to find something that will do it in Vista.

Also, how did you get the internal camera to work? Did you install iSight drivers? And if so, where did you find them?

Many thanks!
Click to expand...
very nice! congrats to you! hope you love yours as much as i love mine. I am not currently using the cam and the speakers, but all i did was plug the usb in and rebooted a couple times, along the way self-discovery picked up generic drivers in both xp and 7. i have never run vista full time. however here's another thread about isight drivers for pc, http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2249400&tstart=30
As far as controlling the monitor settings, i have been simply using the video card drivers' controls to bring the brightness down to 30%
 
MrRoper said:
As far as controlling the monitor settings, i have been simply using the video card drivers' controls to bring the brightness down to 30%
Click to expand...

I see. I happen to have found a workaround for controlling the LED backlighting directly. You need to install the Apple Boot Camp drivers found on a Jaguar version of the Mac OS.

Once you do that, you can use the Boot Camp Control Panel to control the monitor brightness.

However, you can't do this if you have admin rights (strange, I know). It will give you an error saying it can't find the startup disk (presumable some sort of partition that is created if you are actually running a Mac). To get around this, you need to run the apple control panel without admin privileges. So, create a non-admin account on your computer, and then use the 'runas.exe' file to run the Apple Boot Camp control panel executable.

Here is an example of the shortcut I created, using a non-admin account named 'Test' on the computer 'NOVASTAR':

C:\Windows\System32\runas.exe /user:NOVASTAR\Test "AppleControlPanel.exe"

When you can control the LED backlighting brighness directly, you will see what a difference it makes in the quality of the display. Video card controls alone do not do the LED 24" ACD justice.
 
mantispid said:
I see. I happen to have found a workaround for controlling the LED backlighting directly. You need to install the Apple Boot Camp drivers found on a Jaguar version of the Mac OS.

Once you do that, you can use the Boot Camp Control Panel to control the monitor brightness.

However, you can't do this if you have admin rights (strange, I know). It will give you an error saying it can't find the startup disk (presumable some sort of partition that is created if you are actually running a Mac). To get around this, you need to run the apple control panel without admin privileges. So, create a non-admin account on your computer, and then use the 'runas.exe' file to run the Apple Boot Camp control panel executable.

Here is an example of the shortcut I created, using a non-admin account named 'Test' on the computer 'NOVASTAR':

C:\Windows\System32\runas.exe /user:NOVASTAR\Test "AppleControlPanel.exe"

When you can control the LED backlighting brighness directly, you will see what a difference it makes in the quality of the display. Video card controls alone do not do the LED 24" ACD justice.
Click to expand...
very nice! , i did read something about bootcamp drivers somewhere but never had a chance to follow through. I guess i should have, considering i have my hackintosh next to me with the dell monitor and the 24 cinema on my pc lol.
wow, doesn't do it justice ? can't imagine this monitor could look any better then it already does :) but i'll welcome the improvement just the same hehe
thanks for the tip! i'll give it a go this weekend
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MrRoper said:
Thanks for the link. At this point i guess i will continue to wait for the at-dp200 since its supposed to have been made with and tested on the acd.. But i spoke with them again and its on back order from atlona ( way to keep up with the demand )...

Anyway, supposed to be delivered to tigerdirect by monday, i was told it would be on its way to me by tuesday the latest... this is dragging on forever , ugh...
Click to expand...

why the at-dp200 and not the normal Mini DisplayPort to DVI from Apple ? i want to get a 24" cinema too.. if u can tell me i would appreciate :)
 
MrRoper said:
Hello,
i have currently a dell u2410 that i am trying to decide if i should return or not, really need to make a descision soon and i want to make the right one for me. but i have tried tft centrals' icc profile and also manually adjusted the settings , eyeballed it to my best guestimation.... i am a designer by trade and need to have the color's be as accurate as possible... it's not horrible, but not nearly as accurate colorwise as my dell 2007wfp
Click to expand...
If you are a professional designer, and you take your profession seriously, you should have a good colorimeter and a completely color managed workflow. If you are downloading color calibration settings from a website and judging its quality using your eyeballs, I think you have much bigger problems than your monitor.
 
shoking said:
why the at-dp200 and not the normal Mini DisplayPort to DVI from Apple ? i want to get a 24" cinema too.. if u can tell me i would appreciate :)
Click to expand...
the mini displayport to dvi adapter from apple won't help you since it's the wrong direction, you need a dvi to mini displayport, and that requires power to make the conversion from what i understand. PS. they remodeled the at-dp200, it's got a plastic enclosure and now has short tails on it for dvi and usb connection, not liking that, but i'm sure it works just the same or better

to chklin , i feel you. did you come here to insult me cuz your cranky? but I'm not going to get into a debate about how " SERIOUS" a designer i am. no amount of calibration was going to get rid of the graininess that was screaming out at me on the u2410 plain and simple. i believe you get what you pay for and with the 24 in cinema i certainly got just that. expensive ? not when compared to similar NEC's and Eizo's ... it's actually on the cheaper end of things. anyway, all i can say is i'm extremely happy with the ACD just like i was and still am with my dell 2007wfp S-IPS...
 
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