This specific setup sufficient for ONE loop? How can it be?!?!

T

TechloGoblin

Limp Gawd
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Oct 20, 2009
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hey guys,

I am going to be building my first water cooled system. I need desperate help

I have read, read and re-read tons of threads. I have been doing as much homework as possible. I spoke to someone who builds these setups and he swears I only need one loop for my setup. When you goto a doctor with a problem, you often get a second opinion..I need one from you experts

I am going to be cooling the following:

Core i7 920 (will be overclocking as much as possible on this CPU)

(2) XFX Ati 5870's (will NOT be overclocking these to MAX, just a nice overclock on each)

Asus Rampage 2 Extreme (Northbridge/Southbridge and Mosfets) using the Bitspower BLACK FREEZER along with the EK-Mosfet ASUS X58 KIT

This is what I am being told will be sufficient:

Dual DDC 3.25 pumps running with a Watercooling eK dual pump top
Feser X-Changer 480mm Xtreme Performance Radiator (with 4 Scythe fans)
EK-Multioption RES 250 Rev 2 Reservoir
Swiftech APOGEE XT Ultra Extreme Performance Water Block
(2) 5870 Full coverage waterblocks
all of the above with 1/2" tubing
Silverstone TJ07 case

Now in MY mind from all my reading the CPU and the NB/SB on the Asus Rampage 2 Extreme runs pretty hot, especially if I am going to be overclocking it pretty high. I don't think ONE loop with all of the above is going to get my temps cool. I am not looking for the cheapest setup, I am looking for the BEST COLD setup. I do not want to have to re-do things in a month.
I definitely would have to run the CPU first in the loop and I can only imagine the water being fairly hot after that, and then hitting the NB/SB and Mosfets to me would just be so hot...AND THEN still have to cool the 5870's (even without a massive overclock)

Will this Res/Pump/Radiator really do the job in one loop?
Should I run (2) loops with the CPU, NB/SB/Mosfets in one and the 5870's in their own much smaller loop?

from what I am being told the 5870's will not be creating enough heat to justify needing two loops, and it will run nice and cool with everything in one loop.

I really appreciate any responses.
 
I think you should just put a second rad in the loop, just to be safe, a cheap 240 like a swiftech mcr 220 which is decent and doesn't restrict flow too much. two pumps in series should be enough, and the heat load would be easily handled with 720mm worth of rad. I would set the loop to go res-pump-pump-480-cpu-mb-240-gpu-gpu-res
 
magnum,

If I went with a 2nd loop altogether, I'd have to get a 2nd (smaller) Reservoir, a 3rd pump, and it's own radiator(2x120 lets say)...correct?

OR do as you suggest and I could either add a 2nd reservoir in the ONE loop solution

or I could have the CPU, NB/SB in one loop, and the GPU's and MOSFETS in a 2nd loop...



thanks so much for your prompt reply!
 
A 2nd reservoir wouldn't do anything, or do you mean a second rad? as for a dual loop, you just split up the pumps, no need to get a third. A single loop solution is cleaner with tubing, which is why I favor it. I run a similar single loop, only no mobo fullcover or mosfet blocks and 4870x2 instead of 5870 cf, and my temps are great with a 4.4 oc on my 920.
 
are you going for 30C or going for 60C? 60C is fine for any of your components and gives you a huge dT with room temp air, making the job fairly easy. some people prefer to have their components at 30-40C, which then increases the amount of heat you need to get rid of.

the only reason id ever split up a loop other than for looks/e-peen is if i want 2 different-temperature loops. if you want to run the i7 at 90C, which it can certainly do, and your gpu at 60C, then 2 different loops would be your best bet. oh, and no one mentioned it before, but "I can only imagine the water being fairly hot after that, and then hitting the NB/SB and Mosfets to me would just be so hot...AND THEN still have to cool the 5870's" is not how it works. the temperature everywhere in the loop will equalize. the water just circulates too fast for you to get appreciably different temperatures in different parts of the loop.
 
ekuest said:
is not how it works. the temperature everywhere in the loop will equalize. the water just circulates too fast for you to get appreciably different temperatures in different parts of the loop.
Click to expand...

sorry I meant making the water hot overall, thus not getting decent temps in the loop.
When I re-read my post I see how it was taken.

I am thinking that I will go with (2) 3x120 Reservoirs and split them up in a single loop as suggested by the first replier above. Rather than getting a 480 and a 240, I'll just go with (2) 3x120 Fessers to make it more pleasing to the eye as well. I will also go with a dual pump setup (using a dual XSPC head) right after the Reservoir.

for some reason in my own head, it seems very difficult on how one loop in any config. is going to keep my temp low throughout the loop...but this is why I am asking the experts.

In wanting to get low low temps, I am probably overthinking it thus needlessly worrying that one loop could never suffice for my setup..it sounds like by adding a 2nd reservoir to a one loop setup, it will let me achieve decent temps for the whole loop
 
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magnum said:
A 2nd reservoir wouldn't do anything, or do you mean a second rad? as for a dual loop, you just split up the pumps, no need to get a third. A single loop solution is cleaner with tubing, which is why I favor it. I run a similar single loop, only no mobo fullcover or mosfet blocks and 4870x2 instead of 5870 cf, and my temps are great with a 4.4 oc on my 920.
Click to expand...

I meant if I went with two totally different loops, would I need a 2nd reservoir for the 2nd loop?

I don't see how I would be able to use one reservoir if I went with two individual loops? (there is only one inlet and one outlet on the res) unless I had an intersection type piece on the two loops..I thought I would need a 2nd reservoir

Don't forget I am new to this and trying to envision everything in my head without seeing it physically can get daunting! lol
 
magnum said:
A single loop solution is cleaner with tubing, which is why I favor it. I run a similar single loop, only no mobo fullcover or mosfet blocks and 4870x2 instead of 5870 cf, and my temps are great with a 4.4 oc on my 920.
Click to expand...

Magnum,

Which radiator?;) What fans and what are the fan speeds and CFM? :D

The 4.4 oc on your 920 is very impressive.;) What are your settings there?
 
x509 said:
Magnum,

Which radiator?;) What fans and what are the fan speeds and CFM? :D

The 4.4 oc on your 920 is very impressive.;) What are your settings there?
Click to expand...
cpu is on swifty mcr 320, with 3 2000rpm yate loons. lets not derail the thread too much, if you have any more qs pm me i guess.

as for op, you will need a second res for another loop, or alternatively you can just make a t-line which will take longer to bleed when setting up. a second res in a single loop won't do a thing for temps, a res is just a tank for the water. don't worry about heatload, as long as you have big enough rads the water will stay cool. the actual delta of idle to load for water temp is very small, in the single digits usually, unless you don't have enough rad or using really low rpm fans. unless you're going for really high clocks, it will be fine. what oc do you plan on hitting?
 
Well you keep mentioning res and a res is a reservoir that holds water, a *radiator* "rad" dissipates heat.

You can use separate loops for GPUs/CPUs, but its not really worth the expense or trouble to do so.

As was mentioned, more heat load or smaller rad for the same heat just increases temps for each device, generally not failure (until they get TOO hot). 480mm aught to be fine for what you are running, but it might get a little warm.

Take a look at http://www.skinneelabs.com/Radiators/Swiftech/MCR320/MCR320_DataChart.jpg . Its the skinneelab report on the swiftech MCR320 rad. Note the water out / water in delta. Less than a degree. Water can hold a lot of heat. Air warms up much faster for the same heat load.

Im not sure if this is the exact rad you are looking at, but if so this is a great review by Martin. Focus on this picture. Its the water temp (delta) you'll get for various fan speeds. Id expect about 600W from your setup. This is just telling you the water temp, the various temps will be (waterblock C/W * wattage) + water-temp. The apogee XT C/W can be found in the vapor review.

C/W is celsius per watt, each watt increases the temp by x degrees. Rad C/W depends mostly on design and changes with airflow (and it determines water temp above air temp). Waterblock C/W depends mostly on design and changes with flow (and determines chip temp above water temp). Flow depends on the pumping power and how restrictive each block is.

I don't water cool, Ive just been doing some reading, so if anybody wants to correct me on anything feel free.
 
If you want to save some cash Swiftech MCR series radiators are great for the money and really only trail the competition by 1c on all fan speeds.
 
What benefits would you receive with 2 pumps in a single loop...?
 
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GLSauron said:
C/W is celsius per watt, each watt increases the temp by x degrees. Rad C/W depends mostly on design and changes with airflow (and it determines water temp above air temp). Waterblock C/W depends mostly on design and changes with flow (and determines chip temp above water temp). Flow depends on the pumping power and how restrictive each block is.

I don't water cool, Ive just been doing some reading, so if anybody wants to correct me on anything feel free.
Click to expand...

GLSauron,

I'm "aspiring" :D to be a watercooling n00b, because I've never actually built a system with watercooling. My next system will be an i7-920, overclocked of course, and I need it to be QUIET ;) since I use it all day. Long story short, depending on my choice of video card, overclock goal, etc., I think I will need about 400-500 watts of watercooling capacity. My next case will be the Corsair 800D, which has room for a triple-fan radiator, unless I want to mod the case. (I don't.)

I'd like to pick my components to get both the quiet and the overclock.:rolleyes: Can you suggest some reading that would help me to pick the most economical block, radiator, fans, etc., for my system?

Thanks in advance.
 
Well I guess I will give my input here. I am going to be watercooling pretty much the same components as you. 2 XFX 5870's and an i7 920, I am not going to be cooling my chipset (mostly because I think it is silly to spend 150$ on a block for my 200$ motherboard).

For radiators I already have an old PA120.3 and an MCR320, but I don't know if I am going to be using them both. My case is somewhat smaller, V1000, and it would be a really tight fit to get both radiators in there. I might sell the PA and get another MCR because the PA is larger both in length and depth and the smaller MCR radiator would be easier to fit.

If you want performance on your CPU I think you would definitely benefit from going with a dual loop configuration. You could have one DDC 3.25 for the CPU/NB loop, and one for the 5870 loop. You would need to find space for two radiators though, but if you went with the TJ-07 that shouldn't be much of a problem. You could fit two MCR320's in there with minimal effort.
 
With the TJ-07 I'd do a 120.4 and 120.2 in the base compartment, dual pumps and single loop. Cool air through the 120.4 and into the 120.2 but water through the 120.2 first.
 
a 120.4 will cool that setup. It just will be a few degrees warmer. However since the swiftech 120.2 are cheap and good, it is worth it to add one to the loop at minimum.
 
lollerskater69 said:
It wouldn't unless your temps are affected by the restriction in your loop. Get me?
Click to expand...

yep, spot on. with a mobo fullcover, its worth it to get a second pump because those are very restrtictive plus the usual strain of the two video cards and cpu block.
 
my 2 cents.....

ive been looking into watercooling myself... depending on what your primary purpose is, and what your budget is......... i say get either a .... low restriction rad like Thermochill or Feser Xchanger and some feser/noiseblocker tribewerk fans or whatever theyre called.... if you want low noise with maximum performance and a high budget... hook it all together with an MCP655 pump apogee XT block and swiftech micro-res....

if you just want plain raw performance but are still on a budget somewhat..... go buy yourself several swiftech MCR420 rads and hook them together in a loop with dual/tri MCP355s in series (a dual pump top is good here) or an Iwaki pump for more head pressure... with a swifteh micro-res and apogee XT block.... get 4 scythe ultrakaze 3000rpm fans and fan controllers like the sumbeam rheobus extreme

having 2 pumps in series doesnt do much except increase head pressure and add a bit of flow.... hence why there are dual and tri MCP355 tops...
 
http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924

As you can see, Swiftech's MCR series falls behind the thick radiators by pretty much 1c on all fan speeds besides the GTS and GTX rads at roughly 2300RPM and above (but those are the only radiators you should purchase if you are going to run fans at that speed). Note that the cheapest of the thick variant is the XSPC RX360 ringing in at about $100 most places. Swiftech's MCR320 is only $50 at every retailer besides PPC's. Such a marginal difference in temperature that really nobody should care, but you have those guys that go after that 1c even if it costs them an extra benjamin.
 
Thanks. I've been doing a lot of research, but I hadn't seen the specific review you mentioned. What I like about this review is that it shows temps at different fan speeds.:D

Actually I'm hoping that the case I will buy (Corsair 800D) has enough room at the top, where the radiator is mounted, that I can use 38 mm or even 55 mm fans, instead of the standard 25s, so I can get both effective cooling AND a quiet system.

This is all a work in progress. :p
 
x509 said:
Thanks. I've been doing a lot of research, but I hadn't seen the specific review you mentioned. What I like about this review is that it shows temps at different fan speeds.:D

Actually I'm hoping that the case I will buy (Corsair 800D) has enough room at the top, where the radiator is mounted, that I can use 38 mm or even 55 mm fans, instead of the standard 25s, so I can get both effective cooling AND a quiet system.

This is all a work in progress. :p
Click to expand...

Stick with the 25mm fans if you want quiet. Check the fan tests in the WC section at XS for the specifics, but the thicker fans don't undervolt without introducing significant motor noise.
 
Setup and installation is done

Here is what she ended up as:

CPU Loop: eK multioption res > (2) DDC 3.25 pumps with XSPC top > XSPC 360 Rad (triple scythe SFF21F fans) > bitspower Rampage II Extreme Black Freezer > swiftech XT cpu block

GPUs Loop: eK mutioption res > (2) DDC 3.25 pumps with XSPC top > Feser 480 Rad (4x scythe SFF21F fans) > eK Mosfet MB blocks > (2) XFX 5870's w/ Danger Den blocks

CPU is overclocked to: 4.2ghz
(200 bclk) (1601 mhz DDR) ( 8-8-8-24 2N) (1.45 CPU v) ( 1.65 DRAM v)
HT disabled (for now)

Ambient temp of room is warm ~28c
at above settings I currently get - ~47c idle (all cores within 1c of each other) on the CPU

NB/SB is ~ 40c idle

and ~36-38c across the board on the GPU sensors at idle

---------------------------------------------------------------------

during Prime95(30 mins in and beyond) I am getting ~67-70c on the CPU using the standard test

NB/SB never gets above ~50c at load

I am getting ~45c on the GPU's during intense benchmarks (Heaven, Crysis, etc.)

I just copied someones 4.2 ghz settings and they worked easily right off the bat, so I am thinking there is a lot of room for more O/Cing

my next strat is to see how high of a BCLK I can get on the CPU with the current voltages, and then possibly enable HT. I will then start to tune down the volts and see how low I can go and still stay stable

I am very happy with these temps, I just want to see if I can lower the ambient temp in the room, it's kinda toasty.

Thanks for all the help guys, I am ecstatic with the help I received and with the build so far!!!!!

P.S. Silerstone TJ07 case,Primoflex tubing (7/16), bitspower compression fittings, Rampage II extreme MB
 
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