Follow the Law, China Tells Internet Companies

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Attention world, this is the time to quit doing business with China. It is pretty sad that companies have stood by while the country repeatedly jails its own citizens for free speech “violations” (in some cases even helped jail them) but the minute you hack Gmail it is time to pull out. :rolleyes:

The comments, by two different officials Thursday, suggested that China was unlikely to give ground on Google’s demands that its search engine results be unfiltered. In announcing its decision Tuesday that it might leave the world’s biggest Internet market, Google also cited a series of cyberattacks aimed at breaching the accounts of human rights advocates on its e-mail service, Gmail.
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Web sites in China are required to employ people who monitor and delete objectionable content; tens of thousands of others are paid to “guide” bulletin board Web exchanges in the government’s favor.

“Internet media must always make nurturing positive, progressive mainstream opinion an important duty.”
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China.
 
Should be an interesting next few days. Will there be an exodus of other foreign businesses in China?

You can be sure India's rather excited about this prospect. They're going to be picking up the slack if an exodus occur.
 
Speaking at a scheduled news conference, Jiang Yu, a ministry spokeswoman, did not address Google’s complaints about censorship and cyberattacks and simply stated that “China’s Internet is open.”
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After so much lying, do you suppose the ministry can no longer actually tell the difference between truth and things they made up? Or, perhaps, they have a secret government approved dictionary, where open has been redefined so that they're technically not lying, open actually means "propagators of objectionable material will be beaten to death in labor camps". Then yes, I agree, China's internet is open.
 
mashie said:
And the cries when people have to pay full price for stuff not made in China will make everyone move the production back there again.

Google moving out of China is a loss for Google, not China.
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PR. A world of educated people are watching China's response to Google's not-so-unreasonable, yet colossal request. China is trying to put on their best face for the world. While I doubt free speech is coming to the Chinese this year, this will at least ignite a few conversations in their government that no lesser company could have compelled.
 
Smash the tea boxes! Wait , wrong time period...damnit! On topic, China's restrictions have gone on long enough with their internet policy. Let them have their closed doors, and we will close ours to them.
 
ProfessorKaos64 said:
Smash the tea boxes! Wait , wrong time period...damnit! On topic, China's restrictions have gone on long enough with their internet policy. Let them have their closed doors, and we will close ours to them.
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Smash the Oolong tea boxes! :D

We smashed boxes of Earl Grey I think. hehe
 
Azhar said:
Should be an interesting next few days. Will there be an exodus of other foreign businesses in China?

You can be sure India's rather excited about this prospect. They're going to be picking up the slack if an exodus occur.
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It would actually be a good idea to shift efforts to India. The market there will soon eclipse China, and the government is far less hostile. The thing is that the backbone of China's wealth is foreign trade. People are right when they say we depend on China, but they also depend on us for they economic well being. If we find a viable replacement for our trade relationship with them that doesn't include the heavy handed censorships and government interference they so lovingly provide, then it could mean a world of hurt for their economy.
 
mashie said:
And the cries when people have to pay full price for stuff not made in China will make everyone move the production back there again.

Google moving out of China is a loss for Google, not China.
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sometimes taking a stand for what is right is more important than any capiatalistic idea.

Character > profit, too bad this is lost on what seems to be the majority of people in these times.
 
Unabomber said:
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
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It would be true if one were to accept the hypothesis that no human being has intrinsic rights, or that rights are a privilege granted out of the kindness of those in power, and can be revoked at any time for whatever reason.

It's an ethical clash long in the making between two extreme ideologies. One that believes the individual is unimportant and can be discarded or disappeared for the well being of the whole, and another that believes each person has a set of rights that under no circumstances can be violated through coercive force.

While Google is a large and fairly powerful corporation, I'd imagine those in charge still feel outraged when a government attempts to, without their consent, infiltrate, abuse, and otherwise sabotage their operations for some undisclosed state purpose.
 
Guo Liang, the director of the China Internet Project at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said he thought Google’s accusations were little more than public whining. “Google may use politics as its excuse, which is easy for Westerners to accept, but in essence this is just a business failure,” he said. “If I were the government, I wouldn’t even bother to respond.”
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I never thought about 35% (second most popular) of a nearly 300 million user market was failing, but again, I think a different dictionary is being used aside from the one I'm accustomed to.
 
Unabomber said:
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
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AlcoJaguar said:
It would be true if one were to accept the hypothesis that no human being has intrinsic rights, or that rights are a privilege granted out of the kindness of those in power, and can be revoked at any time for whatever reason.
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That is China...people there have no rights.


It's an ethical clash long in the making between two extreme ideologies. One that believes the individual is unimportant and can be discarded or disappeared for the well being of the whole, and another that believes each person has a set of rights that under no circumstances can be violated through coercive force.

While Google is a large and fairly powerful corporation, I'd imagine those in charge still feel outraged when a government attempts to, without their consent, infiltrate, abuse, and otherwise sabotage their operations for some undisclosed state purpose.
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Yeah, but google bent over backwards to do business in China, so did Yahoo. Now google is suddenly outraged over the Chinese governments behavior? I find that laughable. They get what they deserve. They knew the risk of dealing with Chinese government and if they didn't, they are idiots.
 
Guo Liang is a bloody fool if he thinks it's just a business failure. He hasn't begun to see the potential fallout of their behavior against a popular business.
 
zoobaby said:
Yeah, but google bent over backwards to do business in China, so did Yahoo. Now google is suddenly outraged over the Chinese governments behavior? I find that laughable. They get what they deserve. They knew the risk of dealing with Chinese government and if they didn't, they are idiots.
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There's no doubt that the potential of a new market brought every business in China to its decision to trade and open up shop within those borders. However, not too long ago the popular sentiment (correct or not) was that an increased foreign business presence would lead to loosened controls and restrictions within China. In fact, quite the opposite has happened within the last 6-12 months. China's administration has become increasingly hostile to foreign enterprises, and there's an internal move to "Buy China" (sound familiar? "Buy USA"... countries tend to get a little xenophobic when economic performance is less than spectacular). A slew of new regulations and restrictions are created ever increasing operating costs only for foreign companies, and with the ramped up allegations of cyber attacks perpetrated by the Chinese government, I bet it was just the straw that broke the camels back.

Self serving or not, Google's move could finally bring attention to an administration that has up until now gotten off pretty easily for its actions.
 
To me it seems like China is us 100 years ago. So I'm kind of seeing where all this is going. And it probably will be quite embarassing. At least for us we were the only ones, so everyone else just kinda watched in bewilderment. But I think this will turn into the biggest "I told you so" the world has ever seen.
 
Unabomber said:
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
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Who's 'they'? The whole thing is about China's few controlling the majority of the country who DON'T like the way things are. When you say 'their country' I'm assuming therefore you don't mean the people of the country? Or do you believe that a large majority of people if given the chance would say "Yeah, if I say what I think I should probably be put in a labor camp, it's only fair."

An American company named ICANN still has a significant say about what is allowed on the internet since America created the internet; so you could say 'our system, OUR rules. Plain and simple.'

Not to mention what REALLY riled Google up wasn't the filtering, but rather that even when Google was complying with China's government China still launched cyber attacks on US Google services. You DEFINITELY can't say that's ok.
 
Azhar said:
Should be an interesting next few days. Will there be an exodus of other foreign businesses in China?

You can be sure India's rather excited about this prospect. They're going to be picking up the slack if an exodus occur.
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It will be next century if you can wait that long.

They don't have the infrasture.
 
Ualdayan said:
Who's 'they'? The whole thing is about China's few controlling the majority of the country who DON'T like the way things are. When you say 'their country' I'm assuming therefore you don't mean the people of the country? Or do you believe that a large majority of people if given the chance would say "Yeah, if I say what I think I should probably be put in a labor camp, it's only fair."

An American company named ICANN still has a significant say about what is allowed on the internet since America created the internet; so you could say 'our system, OUR rules. Plain and simple.'

Not to mention what REALLY riled Google up wasn't the filtering, but rather that even when Google was complying with China's government China still launched cyber attacks on US Google services. You DEFINITELY can't say that's ok.
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Google agreed to filter in order to do business there. They only got pissed once hacked, a known risk of doing business in China. And now suddenly google is acting shocked and hurt, give me a break. (Yes I am victim blaming here)

If you are a company and you do business in China, you play by the rules dictated by the Chinese government. And you also are excepting all the risks associated with it.

Wait until China decides to nationalize all the factories and server farms that US industry has built up over there. That will be pure entertainment.
 
ProfessorKaos64 said:
Smash the tea boxes! Wait , wrong time period...damnit! On topic, China's restrictions have gone on long enough with their internet policy. Let them have their closed doors, and we will close ours to them.
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That is what the West is trying to do with trade protection as of the financial crisis.

And it did not bring down China or in Recession instead came out better than expected.
 
Climber said:
sometimes taking a stand for what is right is more important than any capiatalistic idea.

Character > profit, too bad this is lost on what seems to be the majority of people in these times.
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That is what happen with some athletic regretted with Olympic.

Character don't fill your bottom line.
 
zoobaby said:
Google agreed to filter in order to do business there. They only got pissed once hacked, a known risk of doing business in China. And now suddenly google is acting shocked and hurt, give me a break. (Yes I am victim blaming here)

If you are a company and you do business in China, you play by the rules dictated by the Chinese government. And you also are excepting all the risks associated with it.

Wait until China decides to nationalize all the factories and server farms that US industry has built up over there. That will be pure entertainment.
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No government are perfect. Next you're going to laugh at companies operating in the US after the Patriot Act because they're just asking for it.

Just because a business makes a trade agreement with a government to operate in their country doesn't give the government (or business) the right to violate policy. The Chinese government had no right to hack into Google's Gmail service, period. Google only agreed to abide by their censorship law, and in return Google will provide the Chinese government information when requested. All they had to do was ask. But no, they hacked into Google's server. So yeah, Google was pissed. Wouldn't you be?
 
AlcoJaguar said:
It would actually be a good idea to shift efforts to India. The market there will soon eclipse China, and the government is far less hostile. The thing is that the backbone of China's wealth is foreign trade. People are right when they say we depend on China, but they also depend on us for they economic well being. If we find a viable replacement for our trade relationship with them that doesn't include the heavy handed censorships and government interference they so lovingly provide, then it could mean a world of hurt for their economy.
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It is easy to say pick up and go. Most the factory there are own by Chinese not foreigner. The Chinese contract with to produce good.

It can cut both way. The Chinese will be the largest consumer in the world in 10 years in term of $$$$.
 
Seriously, screw China.

Any software company that does business with them is guaranteed to have their products pirated and then distributed on a MASS PRODUCTION scale! They've had no respect for western companies so if they are going to bite the hand that feeds them then they get what's coming.

They're actually trying to ruin the US economy: They've kept their exchange rate locked even with the US currency to make it profitable for our companies to still export business there, even through the current hardships. Once all manufacturing is offloaded there they will pull the rug out from under us.

Go Google! Don't Be Evil
 
Azhar said:
No government are perfect. Next you're going to laugh at companies operating in the US after the Patriot Act because they're just asking for it.

Just because a business makes a trade agreement with a government to operate in their country doesn't give the government (or business) the right to violate policy. The Chinese government had no right to hack into Google's Gmail service, period. Google only agreed to abide by their censorship law, and in return Google will provide the Chinese government information when requested. All they had to do was ask. But no, they hacked into Google's server. So yeah, Google was pissed. Wouldn't you be?
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You think China cares about policies and agreements they have with businesses? LOL....

I can't defend google or any business, doing business in China. Google is a freaking hypocritical company. There motto is "Don't be evil", yet they would willingly give over personal information they have collected on Chinese citizens and dissidents to the Chinese government. What do you think happens to those dissidents?

Doing business in China has huge risks, this is just one of the first issues getting public attention. Just wait, it will get worse.
 
zoobaby said:
You think China cares about policies and agreements they have with businesses? LOL....

I can't defend google or any business, doing business in China. Google is a freaking hypocritical company. There motto is "Don't be evil", yet they would willingly give over personal information they have collected on Chinese citizens and dissidents to the Chinese government. What do you think happens to those dissidents?

Doing business in China has huge risks, this is just one of the first issues getting public attention. Just wait, it will get worse.
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I never said China cares about business policies. I said you shouldn't expect a company to remain there if China did violate policy. Of course I had a feeling China would do something this stupid, but as with Google and everyone else, we're kind of hoping that in today's growing China, they've wised up about how to do business with the world.

Apparently they haven't.
 
Unabomber said:
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
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So funny to me that your name is Unibomber, yet you imply "Nobody should say anything about this situation. The government should not be questioned. They own the people over there. lol" :rolleyes:
 
Steve said:
It is pretty sad that companies have stood by while the country repeatedly jails its own citizens for free speech “violations” (in some cases even helped jail them) but the minute you hack Gmail it is time to pull out. :rolleyes:
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Come on, Steve, if someone came up to you and Kyle from an ISP and said we're going to take 20% of your readers/profit if you don't censor this article, you would think carefully about what you did next.

Twenty percent is a huge fraction of your audience, and, to put it good ole American terms, it's just bad business to turn them down completely. If you were to turn them down, you'd have cutbacks at the office for sure, maybe you'd lose a few employess, and all for people that will be censored anyways, the best thing you can do is at least put your spin on other things so they can get an external view point.

Similarly, boycotting China would do nothing, their massive population and cheap workforce makes them realistically immune to embargoes or any large scale boycott.

Google and other international companies like them are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
mashie said:
And the cries when people have to pay full price for stuff not made in China will make everyone move the production back there again.

Google moving out of China is a loss for Google, not China.
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Doesnt bother me any. I'd rather pay for American made products to begin with. The problem is still finding stuff that's made here.
 
Unabomber said:
Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
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more like one mans rules cause he thinks he knows what is best for his people and doesnt want them realizing how much better life could be outside of China with freedoms they dont have.
 
Iran: Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
Nazi Germany: Their country, their rules. Plain and simple.
 
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