Canadian Usage-Based Internet Billing Explained

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Remember that story from last week about Canada imposing a usage based internet billing scheme (here)? Well, [H] reader Brian S-Q sent me this image that explains just how bad the situation is right now in Canada.
 
Ouch. Interesting, if not strange, way to it into perspective I guess.
 
The federal government was said they will "review" the bill although I trust Harper about as much as I trust the CRTC ... which is to say not at all.
 
I call bullshit on this posting. Putting a downloading on an SSD is all fair and dandy. The question is, who downloads it? A Linux distribution or Steam download doesn't just magically appear on a HDD out of thin air, someone still has to download it. So rather than you paying out of pocket for the download, someone else is.

Kind of like the whole "Lets show the gas companies they are too expensive by not buying gas on Wednesday!". Meanwhile, everyone just gasses up the day before or after.
 
Glad I don't live in Canada. In the US where most facets of capitalism exist this would have murdered a company in short time. Comcast is trying this with its 250GB cap but that is still a lot of data and for now the masses don't realize they are even capped. But I can easily pass that cap in the first 2 weeks of internet usage per month.

If comcast gets any more ridiculous I have about 2 more options that have truly unlimited internet available. Lets hope that the US congress doesnt impose some croney internet usage bill.

I hope Canada citizens can voice their opinion of this product oppression and be heard.
 
Canada is literally a 3rd world country in terms of the internet. I feel sorry for our Canadian friends.
 
tangoseal said:
Glad I don't live in Canada. In the US where most facets of capitalism exist this would have murdered a company in short time. Comcast is trying this with its 250GB cap but that is still a lot of data and for now the masses don't realize they are even capped. But I can easily pass that cap in the first 2 weeks of internet usage per month.

If comcast gets any more ridiculous I have about 2 more options that have truly unlimited internet available. Lets hope that the US congress doesnt impose some croney internet usage bill.

I hope Canada citizens can voice their opinion of this product oppression and be heard.
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to get out the house more.
 
Doom4life said:
I call bullshit on this posting. Putting a downloading on an SSD is all fair and dandy. The question is, who downloads it? A Linux distribution or Steam download doesn't just magically appear on a HDD out of thin air, someone still has to download it. So rather than you paying out of pocket for the download, someone else is.

Kind of like the whole "Lets show the gas companies they are too expensive by not buying gas on Wednesday!". Meanwhile, everyone just gasses up the day before or after.
Click to expand...

You're completely, COMPLETELY missing the point. This isn't a serious suggestion of an alternative, it's trying to quantify the prices that the ISP is charging and comparing it to some outrageous option that isn't supposed to BE cheap at all.
 
Doom4life said:
I call bullshit on this posting. Putting a downloading on an SSD is all fair and dandy. The question is, who downloads it? A Linux distribution or Steam download doesn't just magically appear on a HDD out of thin air, someone still has to download it. So rather than you paying out of pocket for the download, someone else is.

Kind of like the whole "Lets show the gas companies they are too expensive by not buying gas on Wednesday!". Meanwhile, everyone just gasses up the day before or after.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point. The point here is that Canada used to have unlimited internet like much of the USA. Now Canada is having rediculous bandwidth caps put into place with rip off overages.

Your analogy about downloading to a hard drive doesnt make any sense or counter-sense to this whole problem.

When you mention people paying to download something that is called an "Internet Subscribtion" whcih used to be unlimted for a monthly fee. Now they pay the same or more monthly fee and get about 85% less capacity until they cap the user.

The point of the article here and the photo is that with the new prices in place it would actually be cheaper for a company to install 160GB of data, say 12 PC games that you would buy online and ship them to your house directly. Afterwards you could still throw the SSD in the trash can and still pay less than the new pricing would charge for the same amount of data sent over the internet.

That is the point. Canada ISPs are going to price them-selves out of the market.
 
Doom4life said:
I call bullshit on this posting. Putting a downloading on an SSD is all fair and dandy. The question is, who downloads it? A Linux distribution or Steam download doesn't just magically appear on a HDD out of thin air, someone still has to download it. So rather than you paying out of pocket for the download, someone else is.

Kind of like the whole "Lets show the gas companies they are too expensive by not buying gas on Wednesday!". Meanwhile, everyone just gasses up the day before or after.
Click to expand...

And clearly the entire point of the picture went completely over your head.

He wasn't saying people should start shipping SSDs, he simply said it is cheaper to do so with data. The point isn't so people send drives, the point is to illustrate that the price per gigabtye they are trying to charge has no connection to reality.
 
dkev said:
Maybe you need to get out the house more.
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Ahh true but its called bit torrent.

I can smoke 250 GB in a week. I just take one hour, select a massive load of stuff I want, and walk away. The computer does the rest. So Im not in the house as much as you would think.
 
Can the internet survive with these kind of caps? Is Canada and other countries implementing these types of rates effectively isolating themselves from the world community? It is obvious that the huge profits are nice but even better is the control of what media is available. Clearly no more Netflix whenever you want to watch it, but if you have those caps how much of the ever more video/streaming oriented news and alternative viewpoints will you avoid because they cost too much watch?
 
Oh I get the entire point of the picture and what it's trying to say. Although I am against the $2-$3 per gigabyte that they are declaring as it's clearly way too much compared to the actual costs involved with transferring the data.

However, any type of example could be used. Why not drive to a local computer store, pick up an SSD, drive to a local college/university/library or even where you work. Save the download to the HDD and take it home. There! Speed and costs are way faster than sending it overnight.
 
tangoseal said:
You are missing the point. The point here is that Canada used to have unlimited internet like much of the USA. Now Canada is having rediculous bandwidth caps put into place with rip off overages.
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This isn't true. Canada has always had Usage-Based Billing. It's just now the companies doing the line-sharing(Bell Canada) are allowed to impose their caps onto the companies sharing the lines(Teksavvy). Rogers has had Usage-Based Billing for years, same with Bell.

So, yes it is a problem, but no it is not a brand new problem for all Canadians. It is only for those who were using companies that used other lines that are now being charged and forced into Usage Based Billing.
 
Someone big and powerful has politicians firmly in their pocket. Nothing else about this makes any sense.

Methinks once the Canadian Citizens really find out what is really going on here, they may end up having their own Tea Party before it's over...
 
I just went to training in Canada recently for implementing this here :(
 
What do you expect in a country that has "free" health care?

These companies probably have to charge these outrageous rates to remain profitable after being taxed to death.
 
The thing that really burns me is how two faced ISPs and UBB supporters are in regards to the pricing. All the PR VPs and libertarian assholes talk about how it's only fair that those who use more bandwidth pay more. I mean, that's how your energy bill works. Why sholdn't internet access work the same way? And then with the same smug look they talk about charging $1 per gig over your limit. It's outrageous. That gig costs them may 1 penny to transmit, up or down, and they're going to charge 100x that.

Makes me so mad. And there's nothing you can do about it expect complain to your congressman. No market recourse for the user who is educated about the actual costs of the service.

Internet service is like a crazy world where everyone knows it costs about $.50 to make an HDMI cable but the ONLY place to buy them is Best Buy and they all cost $50. Fucking crazy.
 
To add, I'm not trying to troll at all. Living in the province that I do, I've come to pretty much expect getting screwed by our provincial and federal government when it involves money.

The ISP (Shaw) that I use, has a light speed plan which offers 15GB and is pretty much intended for internet and e-mail with some online ideo watching. The plan that I have has a 60GB cap (I used 23GB last month), with the caps increasing rapidly depending on what you pay.

Looking at Primus, a Third Party Internet Access Provider (TPIA), they did get screwed as an unlimited monthly plan was dropped to a 25GB cap with $2.00/GB if you go over. HOWEVER, to avoid that, they offer 40GB for $5.00. That equates to $0.125/GB which is probably more inline with what they actually pay.
 
To support my claim (from www.digitalhome.ca:
Telecommunication and Internet service provider Primus Canada last week notified customers that, effective February 1st, 2011, the company will be increasing how much it charges for internet service and lowering bandwidth caps.
In an email, the company informed customers, who previously had an unlimited bandwidth cap, would now have only 25GB of monthly usage.

Beyond 25GB of monthly usage, Primus will charge internet users for additional usage up to 300GB at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month. Usage in excess of 300GB per month will be charged an additional $1.10/GB. To reduce the potential for an extra monthly charge of $60, additional usage plans will be offered starting at $5/month for an additional 40GB
Click to expand...
 
tangoseal said:
That is the point. Canada ISPs are going to price them-selves out of the market.
Click to expand...

I don't really know the whole Canada situation, but if it's similar to the US, they can do it with local monopolies and succeed. In this country there would be no "price yourself out of the market."
 
Yes

Rogers is hurting very badly by being "taxed to death" for the "free" healthcare.

In 2009, before these caps were as rigid and as widespread, they posted a $4.01 PROFIT. We all know that 4 billions dollars profit is no where near enough to keep a company going and they must make up at least 3 more billion in profit to even consider keeping their doors open.
 
tangoseal said:
Ahh true but its called bit torrent.

I can smoke 250 GB in a week. I just take one hour, select a massive load of stuff I want, and walk away. The computer does the rest. So Im not in the house as much as you would think.
Click to expand...

DAMN - how does your ISP not catch on - I used to torrent and my ISP sent me a warning I was being watched by the DRM people.
 
from ontario canada here... yep im looking for a new ISP to move into since i will be affected by this UBB shit. sadly the only ISP that wont be using UBB is YAK!, they dont have service for my city.....
 
This whole UBB situation in Canada is really bad news for people in the US. The telco/cable companies will have a field day with this, especially since a majority of these companies have a virtual monopoly in small to medium markets.

Think Comcast, Verizon or At&t's caps are bad now, wait till they see how UBB works in Canada... We're screwed!
 
tangoseal said:
If comcast gets any more ridiculous I have about 2 more options that have truly unlimited internet available. Lets hope that the US congress doesnt impose some croney internet usage bill.
Click to expand...

Too bad Comcast is a monopoly in a lot of areas in the US.
 
that is one funny picture, I love it!

That said, too bad people in large enough numbers don't have the balls to just tell their ISPs to fuck off, and leave the internet. Big enough move and rules will change.
 
sfsuphysics said:
that is one funny picture, I love it!

That said, too bad people in large enough numbers don't have the balls to just tell their ISPs to fuck off, and leave the internet. Big enough move and rules will change.
Click to expand...

If this were a free market we could move on to the other cable provider. But it's a government sanctioned monopoly.
 
These caps are nothing new, in fact 10 years ago Shaw had unlimited high speed but what they really meant was that you were unlimited up to 8 gigs combined up and down. I am extremely happy that now for the same price I get 60 gigs, for a bit more I can get 100 gigs with extreme. I have found over the years that I don't need to download a shit load of useless apps. that I don't need, piracy is stupid, if you like a game or app. buy it, if you want to watch tons of movies get off you lazy fat ass, get some fresh air and rent or buy the movie, if you want to steal from the internet you will pay in extra usage fees. If you require extra bandwidth for your business then purchase a business plan. Charging extra is good for me because it will limit that guy next door who's slowing down my connection cause he's constantly downloading shit because he feels that because he's paying for the internet he's owed something.
 
well i live in ontario, canada so this topic is really a current piss off for me. when the bandwidth caps started coming in, i quickly changed to 3rd party services that still offer unlimited. they either use bell's or roger's infrastructure, lease their equipment and buy a bunch of bandwidth off them. weather bell/rogers likes it or not, this is a legitimate business.

so with this new CRTC bill somehow bell and rogers get to tell these smaller businesses (who don't have as much money to fight) how to run their business. where's the sense in that?? welcome to communist canada!

furthermore, they've been trying to tell us for years that there is some sort of 'bandwidth shortage' or that the 'small percentage' of downloaders are ruining the speed of the network for everyone else. here's a few interesting points:

- there has not been any evidence of a bandwidth shortage. ever.

- the downloaders have not affected the speed of other users. ever. if they are getting there, then these large companies need to improve their infrastructure. with what they charge, that shouldn't be a problem!

- the 3rd party company i'm with is a little right wing with all the caps and all. suits me just fine. but here's the interesting thing - bell/rogers want to charge us what $1-2 even $5/GB of bandwidth overage (forgetting the current change for the moment). now, granted its bulk but they sell bandwidth to my provider BACK BEFORE 2005 for less than 10 cents/GB. where do they get off charging us these rates??

- over the years, technology gets better and cheaper. therefore, bandwidth should now be cheaper and there should be more of it. why isn't it?

- finally, i own and rent a small apartment. i see my tenants as my customers and i like to offer a good deal to compete and get the best tenants i can. lets me pick and choose a little. i offer satellite tv and internet with rent as part of that. lets face it, renting is a business. so now if this bill sticks i may no longer be able to offer internet service to my customers. the CRTC is now telling me how to run my business. WELCOME TO COMMUNIST CANADA!!

i swear if this crap keeps up i'm moving to the US. thats saying a lot, because i love a lot of things about canada. first they're totally screwing us on hydro and the hydro infrastructure (i work for hydro, so i get a bit of info most people don't) and now this.
 
24h transit time? I wish we had that here when we order something. They still have us beat.
 
Parmenides said:
... Unless you go with netzero or possible DSL
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Neither would work. You see, the recent outrage is that the very backbone there Bell Canada (AT&T here) has now gotten the green light to impose that huge markup of $2 per GB on all companies downstream of them. That means that even if you had a local ISP, and even if they wanted to provide it to you cheaper - they can't, their hookup to the internet is being charged $2 per GB.

Here in the US we're ripe for the same thing to happen to us - in most areas you only have 1 cable provider, 1 main DSL provider (just like Canada), and local ISPs using line sharing to provide DSL (just like Canada). The backbone of the internet for the country is concentrated in the hands of just a couple of companies - theirs being Bell Canada, ours being AT&T which is just made up of all the Bells they've merged with over the years. You already have companies starting to wage the same marketing campaign here and convincing people 'You don't want to pay for somebody else's excessive usage right?' to get people to agree to metered billing. Then BOOM they sneak in and don't cut rates for anybody, but simply impose that now for the same amount of money you can a whole lot less.
 
DragonNOA1 said:
24h transit time? I wish we had that here when we order something. They still have us beat.
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He included overnight shipping. Eg a SSD AND overnight shipping was still cheaper than their ISPs are trying to claim is fair. If you get overnight shipping here in the US it's 24 hours or less too.
 
Doom4life said:
I call bullshit on this posting. Putting a downloading on an SSD is all fair and dandy. The question is, who downloads it? A Linux distribution or Steam download doesn't just magically appear on a HDD out of thin air, someone still has to download it. So rather than you paying out of pocket for the download, someone else is.

Kind of like the whole "Lets show the gas companies they are too expensive by not buying gas on Wednesday!". Meanwhile, everyone just gasses up the day before or after.
Click to expand...

You download it while you are at work since your company probably has a fixed enterprise contract with an SLA and is not impacted by this change yet.

We literally had a discussion in the office that we expect a bunch of our technical users to start bringing in USB drives etc and doing their downloads at work... We already filter and block P2P fairly effectively on our network however we still expect some users will try.
 
Not sure if anyone noticed, but it was ~4 month back or so when Shaw lowered their transfer limits by ~20GB. Just after that, they began enforcing these pathetic limits with the $2 per GB over. So terribly sad.
 
itanium said:
What do you expect in a country that has "free" health care?

These companies probably have to charge these outrageous rates to remain profitable after being taxed to death.
Click to expand...

The UK doesn't have this crap, and we have "free" health care too.
 
Esso said:
Not sure if anyone noticed, but it was ~4 month back or so when Shaw lowered their transfer limits by ~20GB. Just after that, they began enforcing these pathetic limits with the $2 per GB over. So terribly sad.
Click to expand...
I don't know were you live but I have had 60 gigs unchanged for a long time and I just checked and I still have 60 gigs.
 
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