[H]ardcore PSU info

I read that PC Power & Cooling's lower wattage models were Fortron-Source, while their higher wattage models were Zippy or Win-tact.

Is Enermax really ToPower? I think they also go by CompuCase, Wavesonic, and CoolerGiant.

Soyo is Key Mouse (www.kmepc.com), AKA MaxPower and EverPower.

Are LeadPower and MaxTop really Channel Well?

Who makes Chieftec's PSUs?

Who the heck is A+GPB, other than crappy?

Are Newtons sold under other brands? What about Astec? In-Win?

Originally posted by larrymoencurly
Who makes Chieftec's PSUs?

Click to expand...

the cheiftec 420 watt model is a ChannelWell psu.

Edit: Correction, these are Sirtec made (not channelwell)

Who makes the Apire Turbo Case PSU's?? Also, RaidMaxx?? (Have a couple sitting in a box)

Raidmax = Leadman, AKA Powmax and Robanton. The first three used to all be the same, while Robanton was their cheaper line, with stamped heatsinks instead of extruded ones, but now Powmax is just as bad, as this picture of a 400W Powmax shows. Compare to this400W Raidmax , not that it's very good, either.

I can't tell who makes this 500W Achieve, but those big capacitors in front aren't so big, just 470uF apiece, or smaller than those in my cheap 300W and 1,000uF for my 350W Fortron/Sparkle. The main transformer also looks more like a 300W's than a 500W's, and the EMI line filter (donut with red and white wire wrapped around it in the right corner) looks kind of cheap, probably just a dual coil and one capacitor (and not a fancy Xn-rated one).

Here's a clear 500W Aspire. Can anyone tell who made this, from the looks of the heatsinks, EMI filter choke, and the "Morel" brand transformers?

I'm bummed about the Enermax blip! I used to use nothing but Fortron Source supplies, but all the dealers at the swapmeet tell me they don't bring them anymore as everyone thinks they are an "off-brand." I think I will go back to having them just ship me the FS The FS supplies look just like a cheapie, but really got the stuff where it counts!

I have been inspecting some Enermax supplies and the looks pretty much stop where the pigtails go into the box. I also have this sneaking suspicion that many 300w through 450w supplies are built with the same components. I assume it would be cheaper to make just one model and call it whatever you want at the price you want

well, for me atleast, I finally made the plunge, and should be getting my PC Power and Cooling, Turbo Cool 510 Deluxe on either Monday or Tuesday. I've wanted a PCP&C for awhile now, but couldnt' float the bill.. Had to get me a Sparkle 400w, which has served me well (albeit very loudly), but with my new case it can't cut it anymore... Trying to power the current rig with 6 case fans, and some cold cathode's puts a strain on it... I don't think I'll be having that problem any longer though..

ATTENTION

since this thread got wacked in the upgrade this the repost of the first post

[H]ardcore PSU info (Charts)
http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester/index.html
http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester2/index.html
(note the PC Power & Cooling, Antec, Ablecom, and Zippy)

In Japanese
But the graphs speak volumes
and the PSU are identified in English]

Continuous Power vs. Peak Power at Spin-Up
12V power profile (current vs. time) of an IDE/ATA hard disk at startup. You can see that the peak power draw is over quadruple
the steady-state operating requirement. The graph appears "noisy"
due to frequent oscillations in current requirements

Click to expand...

Peak vs. Continuous Power
Despite this extra capacity, it is still a good idea to not load up your system to the very limit of your power supply's stated power capacity. It is also wise, if possible to employ features that delay the startup of some disk drive motors when the PC is first turned on, so the +12 voltage is not overloaded by everything drawing maximum current at the same time.

Click to expand...

refering to the links above again
http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/tester/index.html

note the consistent voltage instability at startup and shortly thereafter in those graphs

Winbond Launches New Bus Termination Regulator April 4th 2003

"Winbond Electronics Corporation, a leading supplier of semiconductor solutions, today launched the W83310S, a new DDR SDRAM bus termination regulator. The solution, new to Winbond's ACPI product family, is aimed at desktop PC and embedded system applications with DDR SDRAM requirements.

Computer systems architectures continue to evolve and are becoming more complex; CPU and memory speeds continue to increase ever more rapidly with every technology turn. More and more high current/low voltage power sources are required for PC systems. This is particularly true for high-speed components such as CPU, memory, and system chipsets. The performance of these components is highly dependent upon stable power. Therefore, motherboard designers require accurate, stable, low-ripple and robust power solutions for these components.

Many system designs use discrete components to implement bus termination functions. This approach creates several problems including poorer quality load regulation; higher voltage-ripple, increased usage of board space and inconsistent designs when different discrete components are used."

and just to reinterate this point one more time
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1774&p=8
"the majority of damaged RAM returned to memory manufacturers is destoryed by fluctuations in the voltage."

the transient response is the critical measure, unfortunately its not a metric that is commonly supplied with the PSU specs
(this seems to be slowly changing, as some manufacturers are supplying the transient response now)

Transient Response: As shown in the diagram here, a switching power supply uses a closed feedback loop to allow measurements of the output of the supply to control the way the supply is operating. This is analogous to how a thermometer and thermostat work together to control the temperature of a house. As mentioned in the description of load regulation above, the output voltage of a signal varies as the load on it varies. In particular, when the load is drastically changed--either increased or decreased a great deal, suddenly--the voltage level may shift drastically. Such a sudden change is called a transient. If one of the voltages is under heavy load from several demanding components and suddenly all but one stops drawing current, the voltage to the remaining current may temporarily surge. This is called a voltage overshoot.

Transient response measures how quickly and effectively the power supply can adjust to these sudden changes. Here's an actual transient response specification that we can work together to decode: "+5V,+12V outputs return to within 5% in less than 1ms for 20% load change." What this means is the following: "for either the +5 V or +12 V outputs, if the output is at a certain level (call it V1) and the current load on that signal either increases or decreases by up to 20%, the voltage on that output will return to a value within 5% of V1 within 1 millisecond". Obviously, faster responses closer to the original voltage are best."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we now return you the the regularly schedualed programing and continuity
we rejoin this program in the middle of broadcasting

I got the PCP&P 510 AG (have to call for availability)
has the 6 pin AGP pro connector, but needless to say, that isnt available in the Deluxe Trim <boohoo>

or at least not in the timeframe I required
I probably should have waited and custom ordered the whole thing with all the cables to the lengths I needed, but I didnt know what that was at the time.

what kind of vid card you running? Is that rig for video editing/3d rendering?

I was going to get the optional external pots, but didn't feel like dropping another $50 (or was it $70) and waiting 2-4 weeks...

yup built for Maya 5, and eventually Video when I get the supporting equipment.

Right now Im hung between the
PNY Quadro FX2000 and 3DLabs VP990
there are new optimized Maya5 drivers for the 3DLabs, but I havent seen any benchmarks, so Im in a holding pattern
currently Im optimizing other subsystems (slowly) using a Matrox
the money is just burnin a hole in my pocket
I search every day for published benchmarks
even PMd Kyle in case he found some

of course neither need the AGP Pro power, but I thought Id be safe, in case that changes

hmm.. wonder how that will work come PCI express..

Originally posted by Barnaby
hmm.. wonder how that will work come PCI express..

Click to expand...

poorly

Too many specifications confuse server design @ Engineering Times
"This seamless migration to PCI-X 2.0 is in sharp contrast to the discontinuity that would occur in a move to Express. Without backward compatibility of the slot/adapter, Express will not easily replace PCI slots in servers. Adapter vendors would need to provide two separate product lines during the transition, and server vendors would have to provide multiple servers with different mixes of PCI and Express slots to satisfy customers in various stages of transition. Customers would, for the first time in 10 years, have to manage deployment of incompatible adapter types among their servers."

(of course workstations are generally considered a subset of the true server boards)

but my K8W has dual PCI-X so Im happy for awhile

guess you might be out of luck if they change that type of plug for PCI express... course, I wonder how long it'll take for high end cards like that to make the change to PCI express...

think we're going OT here..

hey btw, anyone know offhand if taking of the main ATX power connector is like taking off regular molex connectors? I'm probably going to replace all the connectons on my 510 D to black, so they match, and was wondering how hard it is to get the 20 pin off..

upgrade paths are getting extremely short
and the power stability requirements are also effecting the
typical "infrastructure role" of PSUs (on a lesser scale)

I figure my workstation will do what I need it to, long enough for the next widely accepted workstation standards to manifest themselves (2 years?)

sounds about right.. my boxes tend to last me like 2 years with maxing out my possible vid card, CPU and memory upgrades...

is taking off the main ATX power connector like taking off regular molex connectors?

Click to expand...

Just tried doing that myself and you are going to need some kind of special "square" molex removal tool or hack it out with a tiny flat bladed screwdriver. Perhaps a smaller than normal molex tool might make it as my regular tools are too big.

hmm... yea, I have a normal molex tool, but I doubt it'll fit the main atx connector... I'll have to get out an old psu, and see how to do it I guess..

Just noticed something interesting. These two drives have very similar specs:
Enlight 420 watt psu
and
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 420 .

They are also built in the same factory. Would it be reasonable to say that the Enlight model is nearly as good as the TT? If so then its a steal at $42. I have an enlight 300w psu and it seems to be a high quality unit.

well youd need to tear into both of them, and see if the components are the same,
its possible, but generally even in the same factory there are different quality to price point offerings, often seperated out by brand

ttt

Originally posted by Ice Czar
ttt

Click to expand...

You can't make you own stickies?

Originally posted by EnderW
You can't make you own stickies?

Click to expand...

LOL

a. Im not a moderator in this forum

b. while this thread has a fairly high utility value, its not self evident and doesnt really rate being sticky

but I like to bump it occassionally for those that will follow the links and to gather any additional who's who in PSU info

^Bump for good info Ice Czar

Antec TruePOWER is supposed to be good? Hm... I'm in the market for a new case, I might pick up the Antec Sonata. It comes bundled with a True 380W.... interesting....

Confirms what we have known - PCP&C and Antec make rocking psus.

Originally posted by SJetski71
Just noticed something interesting. These two drives have very similar specs:
Enlight 420 watt psu
and
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 420 .

They are also built in the same factory. Would it be reasonable to say that the Enlight model is nearly as good as the TT? If so then its a steal at $42. I have an enlight 300w psu and it seems to be a high quality unit.

Click to expand...

Everything I've seen indicates that they are indeed the same supply. The egg has the Tt 420 watt supply (in my sig) for $44.00 with free FedX shipping. Bottom line - I'd buy another one tomorrow.

FWIW - Over the last three+ years, I'll bet I've screwed together almost a hundred Enlight 7237 cases with Enlight 300 / 360 / 420 watt supplies. We use these things in the hardware lab, and are always doing "unnatural" (......) things to them. Not one, repeat, < not one > has ever died.

Regards - B.B.S.

BlindedByScience said:

Everything I've seen indicates that they are indeed the same supply.

Click to expand...

I'm now reading from a fairly knowledgeable source that both enlight, thermaltake, enhance, silverstone, highpower are manufactured by a company called Sirtec. Sirtec has supposedly produced many different psu's at varying degress of quality, including some of the better CompUsa branded psu's.

Inwin is supposedly mfr'd by Fortron/Sparkle and another member of the FSP group. As i mentioned to ice czar via PM: My 300w Inwin psu looks suspiciously similar to 300w FSP fortrons/sparkles...specs and everything.

ice czar you have pm

thanx SJetski71 for the tip
unfortunately Im trying to rebuild a few FAQs that didnt survive the changeover too well, so it will be awhile before Im able to pursue those leads
but I really appreciate your work

Strangely it appears as if I am the mod of this forum now
Guess B.B.S. reloacted this thread

Ice Czar said:

Strangely it appears as if I am the mod of this forum now
Guess B.B.S. reloacted this thread

Click to expand...

Not I, though this seems like the logical place for it to go. And, you being the mod of this forum also seems perfectly logical to me.....

Regards - B.B.S.

Ice Czar said:

thanx SJetski71 for the tip
unfortunately Im trying to rebuild a few FAQs that didnt survive the changeover too well, so it will be awhile before Im able to pursue those leads
but I really appreciate your work


Guess B.B.S. reloacted this thread

Click to expand...

NP, i also plan on backing up my leads with some linkage. Look for pm's or new posts where that's concerned.

The first two pages of this thread are mysteriously missing btw(?) Either its me and my browser but i'm pretty sure the two first pages are gone

indeed, I'll need to recreate them and then merge the threads

Yet another FSP rebadge, the Zalman ZM300A-APF, ZM400A-APF, and Zalman ZM400B-APS all have Fortron guts

SJetski71 said:

Just noticed something interesting. These two drives have very similar specs:
Enlight 420 watt psu
and
Thermaltake Silent Purepower 420 .

They are also built in the same factory. Would it be reasonable to say that the Enlight model is nearly as good as the TT? If so then its a steal at $42. I have an enlight 300w psu and it seems to be a high quality unit.

Click to expand...

It has reciently come to the attention of this board that these units are made by Sirtec

larrymoencurly said:

Raidmax = Leadman, AKA Powmax and Robanton. The first three used to all be the same, while Robanton was their cheaper line, with stamped heatsinks instead of extruded ones, but now Powmax is just as bad, as this picture of a 400W Powmax shows. Compare to this400W Raidmax , not that it's very good, either.

I can't tell who makes this 500W Achieve, but those big capacitors in front aren't so big, just 470uF apiece, or smaller than those in my cheap 300W and 1,000uF for my 350W Fortron/Sparkle. The main transformer also looks more like a 300W's than a 500W's, and the EMI line filter (donut with red and white wire wrapped around it in the right corner) looks kind of cheap, probably just a dual coil and one capacitor (and not a fancy Xn-rated one).

Here's a clear 500W Aspire. Can anyone tell who made this, from the looks of the heatsinks, EMI filter choke, and the "Morel" brand transformers?

Click to expand...

Hmm do you think you can post some picture of inside an antec or some GOOD power supply? Its just kinda curosity..

a PC Power & Cooling 510watt (as measured at 40C, at 25C like most supplies are measured it would be a 600Watt)

vs

a Generic

The PDF

Thats not a generic. Thats an antec truepower 550. Look at an inside pic and they are the exact same. Heres a shot of the antec

Hoy dead thread revival batman. Since this subject keeps coming up and there is already a thread I figured I would add this to this thread. And add a repoint to where this is in the Faq's for those of us who care.


UL file numbers from a now defunct site. They have been reposted elsewhere but for our use here they are again:

E104405 SEA SONIC ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E104407 LEADMAN ELECTRONIC CO LTD
E119368 SAMSUNG ELECTRO-MECHANICS CO LTD
E126556 TAIWAN YOUNGYEAR ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E130843 TOPOWER COMPUTER INDUSTRIAL CO LTD
E131500 PC POWER & COOLING INC
E131881 DELTA ELECTRONICS INC
E134014 ENERMAX TECHNOLOGY CORP
E134129 POWERTECH SYSTEMS CO LTD
E138711 MORETEC ELECTRONICS INDUSTRIAL CO LTD
E141182 MOREX INFORMATION ENTERPRISE CO LTD
E141400 SEVENTEAM ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E142789 NIDEC POTRANS CORP
E143709 HIPRO ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E143756 ZIPPY TECHNOLOGY CORP
E144195 SIRTEC INTERNATIONAL CO LTD
E147055 MAPOWER ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E156513 POWER-WIN TECHNOLOGY CORP
E161451 CHANNEL WELL TECHNOLOGY CO LTD
E161557 FORTREX ELECTRONIC CO LTD
E161936 NIPRON CO LTD
E164554 L & C TECHNOLOGY INC
E166947 ENHANCE ELECTRONICS CO LTD
E172499 WIN-TACT ELECTRONICS CORP
E175472 FORE POINT INDUSTRIAL LTD http://www.fortrex.com.tw/showroom.php
E175856 DELTA ELECTRONICS INC
E176105 ANTEC INC
E176239 ETASIS INC
E178102 JOU JYE ELECTRONIC CO LTD
E178768 WINTECH ELECTRONICS CORP
E181356 SHENZHEN CHI YUAN INDUSTRIAL CO LTD
E185650 KING CASE INDUSTRIAL CO LTD
E186010 ATNG POWER CO LTD
E190414 FSP GROUP INC
E191395 DELTA ELECTRONICS (THAILAND) PUBLIC CO LTD
E193726 ABLECOM TECHNOLOGY INC
E193807 POWERTECH SYSTEMS CO LTD
E199068 DELTA ELECTRONICS INC
E199442 HEROICHI ELECTRONIC CO LTD
E199529 MACRON POWER TECHNOLOGY LTD
E203196 DEER COMPUTER CO LTD
E211481 CODEGEN TECHNOLOGY CO LTD
E217431 DELTA ELECTRONICS INC
E313881 DELTA ELECTRONICS INC

And a repoint to where this is type of thing is in the FAQ and could probably use a refresh:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1026101403&postcount=11

I was working on a computer last night and found another FSP rebrand not on our list. It was a Nobel Power. It was in one of those BEst Buy Viper something other computers from a while back. Just FYI.

Spectre said:

I was working on a computer last night and found another FSP rebrand not on our list. It was a Nobel Power. It was in one of those BEst Buy Viper something other computers from a while back. Just FYI.

Click to expand...

Oh dude... If you had a list of all of the FSP re-labels, you'd need your own thread. Seriously. They're exerywhere.

It needs to list AOpen, Hama, MGC, and Power Q for FSP.

Looks like Ice Czar's little list needs a serious update.

There's a few more mistakes and omitions in there for some of the other manufacturers too.

jonnyGURU said:

Oh dude... If you had a list of all of the FSP re-labels, you'd need your own thread. Seriously. They're exerywhere.

Click to expand...

Yeah I know....I Just had never seen Nobel Power before....or even heard of it.

It needs to list AOpen, Hama, MGC, and Power Q for FSP.

Click to expand...

I think some of those are on the list.

Looks like Ice Czar's little list needs a serious update.

There's a few more mistakes and omitions in there for some of the other manufacturers too.

Click to expand...

Yeah it does.......we have had what 3 this week that we naileddown.