The WC Thread: You got questions, we got answers!

kronchev

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
12,051
So you want to go into the big wide wet (hopefully not) world of watercooling? There are many things you must learn, young grasshopper. This thread is here to hopefully try to educate people on the pros, cons, cost, terminology, and anythign else we can make up, about watercooling.


Q: What is watercooling?

A: Put simply, watercooling is cooling your computer with the power of water. Water is pumped in a continuous loop in your system, drawing either from a resovoir (res) of water, or having all the water contained inside the tubes. It flows from the pump, to a radiator device (some way of transferring the heat to the air), where all the heat is transferred through the radiator, to the air. The water (coolant) then flows to the CPU and any other sources of heat, where it absorbs the heat put out by each block. It then flows back to the res, where it stays until it is pulled back out again, repeating the cycle.

Q: Is watercooling really safe?

A: When done correctly, watercooling is as safe as air cooling. When done poorly, watercooling is as safe as an underwater LAN party. The main thing to remember about a watercooling system is you have to be CAUTIOUS, you have to be SAFE, and you have to TAKE YOUR TIME. When its all said and done, there will be no risk to your system. If you rush through setting it up, then you put your system in danger. Remember, most failures are due to human error and not a faulty component. A fan can die just as easily as a pump can die.

Q: How effective is watercooling?

A: That depends a lot on the components of your system. In a good watercooling system, it is much more effective than air, in a megahertz/temperature way. Watercooled systems have the potential to overclock higher than one could achieve with air, be quieter than an air-cooled system,. and have a general geekiness factor that no air heatsink could ever obtain ;)

Q: How much is this going to cost?

A: Again, that depends a lot on the components you pick out. You can build a very cheap watercooling system that will perform at the level of air cooling, possibly better, possibly worse. You can pump hundreds of dollars into a watercooled system and obtain fantastic temperatures. Most good watercooling systems, however, rarely cost over $100. It's all about shopping around, comparing prices, and deciding what you need and what you don't.



Parts of a watercooling system:

Pumps
Brands:
Iwaki
Danner (Surpreme)
Via
Swiftech
Eheim
Hydor
Danger Den

http://www.dangerden.com/images/pumps/12v/d4_sm.jpg
http://www.dtekcustoms.com/ProductImages/pumps/E-1250.bmp

There are two main types of pumps: Inline and submersable. Inline means there is an inlet port, and an output port. You hook where you want the water to flow INTO the pump into the inlet,and there where you want it to go to the output. Submersable means you put it underwater, for instance in a res. Many times an inline pump can be submerged but for god's sake READ THE PACKAGING before putting an eletric motor underwater!

Pumps can also be 12v or 120v. There is a common conception that 12v pumps are less-reliable than 120v pumps but that has never been proven or disproven. Both can be equal in performance, and have the same amount of noise (usually none), but 12v pumps tend to be more expensive.

Before buying a pump you should ALWAYS do research on it. For instance, a popular pump is the Danner Mag 3 pump. It has a well-known problem where it will leak on the input port after a week or so of usage. This is easily cured with sealent but it is a hassle, in my opinion. I didn't know this and bought this pump, and consequently had a leak in my case. My board and hard drives are raised so all was saved but it was still something that I could have avoided if I had done my research. Learn from my mistake.

Radiators

There are many, many types of radiators. Some are pre-barbed (barb: connection that you slide and clamp a hose onto) and painted, some are bare copper cores that you have to do yourself. Some are one or the other. The most popular type of radiator is called a heatercore. This is a component taken from a car that looks like a radiator, as in there is an input, and output, and a lot of fins, but it is much smaller. A car radiator can betwo feet long, one foot high, and 3 inches thick. A heatercore is usually 12 inches long, 4 inchs wide, and 2 inches thick (not a rule). When you buy a brand-name radiator such as a Black Ice, it is just a painted and barbed heatercore. Since a normal heatercore costs about $20 from Autozone or any other fine auto parts store, it may look like it has quite a markup. But buying a bare heatercore means you need to put barbs on it. This involves cutting or removing the tubes on it; attaching your new barbs (by JB Weld or soldering); testing for leaks; sealing any leaks; and possibly painting it if you want an aesthetic element. However, some sites such as Danger Den sell bare heatercores that have only been barbed, for $10-15 more than the bare heatercore. My first 'core was a bare DangerDen one and it is top quality. I have since moved on to a self-done heatercore, and they are remarkably similar.

http://www.dangerden.com/images/bice/blackice/bix_black_800w.jpg
http://www.dangerden.com/images/heater_core/dbl_heater_core_lg.jpg


Another form of a radiator is commonly called a "bong cooler." This kind of cooling system is referred to as "open air". Instead of passing water through narrow tubes with fins, where the heat passes to the fins, then is passed to air moving over the fins, a bong cooler uses a shower head or some other way to scatter the water around the inside of an open tube that has air being pushed through it. The hotter-than-ambient water evaporates and carries with it, the heat. This is the same principle as sweating; as the fluid evaporates, the heat is carried away. The good thing about this system is you can get much lower temperatures with it, as in below ambient temperature (impossible with normal watercooling). The downsides are, you need a large tube for the water to fall in, you have to fill it nearly daily due to the evaporation, and it is more prone to gathering living things inside the system.

Finally, keep in mind that due to the way that fans work, you DO NOT want to have your fan mounted flush against the radiator, even though its entirely possible (screwing to the radiator's fins). You want whats called a shroud, which pushes back the fan about a half inch and seals around it, so that it ensures that all the air goes through the radiator, and eliminates the dead zone that is in the middle of fans.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles389/pic1.jpg


Waterblocks

Makers:
DangerDen
D-Tek
Swiftech
Custom



Waterblocks are arguably the most important part of the system. You can have a huge radiator, the best pump in the world, but with a bad waterblock, you will get terrible temps. Waterblocks are the only way to transfer heat from the the CPU (or GPU, or Northbridge, or whatever you are cooling) to the coolant. It works much like air cooling; imagine a submerged heatsink and you will get the idea. Blocks are usually made of copper, although old blocks were made of aluminum, and some high-end blocks are made of silver or gold. COpper is best because it is the best price:performance ratio. Usually you only want copper components when you have other copper components, but some blocks, such as the D-Tek Spir@l, have an aluminum top. However it is anodized so there is no aluminum directly touching the coolant. A mixed-metal system is bad because the various metals will corrode each other, and inside the waterblock and radiator (pumps rarely have exposed metal), that will hinder heat transfer.

Blocks are usually available in Socket A format by default, with a Socket 478/904 adapter available for an additional cost. In light of this, many blocks are designed for the exposed-core Socket A design, so they are not hard to mount. Most blocks use the in-board mounting holes that more motherboards have, and must be screwed into place with a bolt-spring-nut arrangement. Some blocks have an optional kit that allows mounting on the tabs on the socket.

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCW6000/MCW6000-64-installed.gif
http://www.dangerden.com/images/tdx/slver_amdluc_800w.jpg


Tubing

Tubing is a very important decision. Poor quality tubing can be a disaster in your system. The most important qualties to look for are a thick wall (to make sure it does not kink when you bend it) and strength. Tubing slides over the barbs that all watercooling equipment is equipped with, and is held in place with metal or plastic clamps. Many people do not like the metal hose clamps such as sold at Home Depot (I used to be one of them), but I have used them in my current system with no problems; in fact they offer more control and spread-out clamping than the plastic clamps you usually see. Tubing is usually either Clearflex or Tygon. They are nearly identical except Tygon is certified for lab and food use. However both work equally well in a system. Tubing is usually in either 3/8" ID (inner-diameter) or 1/2" ID size. Tubing is measured from the INSIDE, ID, while barbs are measured from the OUTSIDE, OD. If you have 1/2" OD barbs, you want 1/2" ID tubing, although you can use 3/8" ID tubing. The most commonly-used sizes in the Western Hemisphere is 1/2" ID and 3/8" ID, but overseas, especially in Germany, they use 1/4" ID tubing.

http://www.dangerden.com/images/misc_hardware/ClearFLEX.jpg
http://www.dangerden.com/images/misc_hardware/tygon_r1000.jpg



Reservoirs

Reses are very simple. They are containers of water, with an inlet and and outlet. The advantege of them is, there is a screw cap on the top, so filling is a matter of opening it and putting in water. Also, it is felt they are easier to bleed (get all the bubbles out of a water system) because the water hangs around in the container, and the bubbles rise out of the water. The downside is, they take up space, and cost money. The alternative to a res is having a T-line. A T-line is a T you put in the path of your system, usually right before the pump. The inlet goes on the left, the outlet on the right, and the bottom part sticks up, with a hose. You use a funnel to pour water into the system. This saves a lot of space and some people prefer this (myself being one of them).

http://www.dangerden.com/images/reservoir/resnew_large.jpg
http://www.dangerden.com/images/misc_hardware/nylon_t.gif




Watercooling stores:

Everything:
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.dtekcustoms.com
http://www.swiftnet.com

Tubing, barbs: http://www.mcmaster.com
Pumps: http://www.marinedepot.com



COST!

As I said before a WC system can range from 50 to a few hundred dollars. This varies largely on the components you pick.

Lets look at some prices of hand-picked components from various online stores, first homogenously from the stores, then by price:

DangerDen Cheap:
Maze4, 1/2", Lucite top - $34.95
Hydor L25, 185GPH - $37.95
The Heater Core with 1 fan shroud - $42.99
ClearFlex 60, 10 ft - 10 x $1.25 - 20% = $10.00
Plastic clamps - 8 x 0.75 = $6.00
T-fitting - $1.75
Evercool Chrome Aluminum Fan 120mm - $11.95
4oz Water Wetter - $3.50

Total: $149.09 + shipping = ~$160


DangerDen High-End
TDX Block - $52.95
Eheim 1250 Pump - $59.00
Double Heater Core Radiator with Shroud - $49.99
Evercool Chrome Aluminum Fan 120mm - 2x = $23.90
ClearFlex60 Tubing 1/2 Inch - $10.00
Plastic Hose Clamp $7.50
Res - Cylindrical, 1/2 Fittings, 3/8 80mm Adaptor $28.99
12oz Water Wetter - $7.50

TOTAL: $239.83 + shipping = ~$250.00



Systems can be cheaper, systems can be more expensive. Look around the provided sites, ask around with people who have done it before. Above all take your time, plan it out, try to think of everything before you put it together! Remember that radiator has to go somewhere! Remember, tubing cant bend immediatly at 90 degree angles!


Good luck in your watercooling adventures! If you have any questions you can ask here in the Watercooling forum, or PM me or any member here. This is a community and we are all here to help each other.





Everyone: Please feel free to add whatever you want to this. This was all just stuff off the top of my head.
 
Good post kronchev. :)

A couple corrections/additions to your wonderful writeup.

Under pumps, I believe the brand is actually Iwaki, and also, the Danger Den pump is actually a Laing D4 brushless 12V DC (which kicks much ass I might add). Funny though, Danger Den sells them cheaper than getting them directly from Laing (by about $20!!).


And another thing about reservoirs. In addition to ease of filling/bleeding etc, they offer another advantage. More water capactiy for your system without adding any restrictions to your loop. The increased quantity of water will increase your loop's cooling capacity (to some extent) as there is a larger quantity of water to absorb heat from your cpu.


Sticky mb? :D
 
Dark Ember said:
Good post kronchev. :)

A couple corrections/additions to your wonderful writeup.

Under pumps, I believe the brand is actually Iwaki, and also, the Danger Den pump is actually a Laing D4 brushless 12V DC (which kicks much ass I might add). Funny though, Danger Den sells them cheaper than getting them directly from Laing (by about $20!!).


And another thing about reservoirs. In addition to ease of filling/bleeding etc, they offer another advantage. More water capactiy for your system without adding any restrictions to your loop. The increased quantity of water will increase your loop's cooling capacity (to some extent) as there is a larger quantity of water to absorb heat from your cpu.


Sticky mb? :D

ah ok

wasnt sure of the spelling, I list it as DangerDen because they themselves call it a DangerDen brand pump, and I disagree with that point about reses. Theyre much too small to offer a cooling benefit.

Thanks for the other stuff though!
 
kronchev said:
ah ok

wasnt sure of the spelling, I list it as DangerDen because they themselves call it a DangerDen brand pump, and I disagree with that point about reses. Theyre much too small to offer a cooling benefit.

Thanks for the other stuff though!


Well, after putting a reservoir in my system after having a T (and effectively doubling the amount of water I was running from approx. 2 to 4 cups), my temps dropped about 2.5C or so. So I stand by my statement! :p
 
Dark Ember said:
Well, after putting a reservoir in my system after having a T (and effectively doubling the amount of water I was running from approx. 2 to 4 cups), my temps dropped about 2.5C or so. So I stand by my statement! :p

I'm willing to bet you mount was the reason for lower temps. You never know what could be different but a res will not lead to lower temps.
 
Clearflex 60 tubing - www.mcmaster.com - anyone have part number handy?

Also Silverprop as another waterblock maker.

For a new pump the QuietOne 4000HighHead model from pentairaquatics.com
about 850 gph@ 3 ft head. 980 at 0 ft.

Some people use oversize barbs and stretch the tubing over them for a tght fit. Examples of this are 1/2" barbs with 3/8" ID tubing or 5/8 barbs with 1/2" ID tubing. To stretchthe tubing, briefly diptheend in boiling water. Alternatelydipping the tubing in rubbing alchohol will help itslide over thebarb. The alchohol acts as a lubricant, then evaporates quickly.
 
MrHappyGoLucky said:
How much did DD pay for the pimpage? :confused:

nothing, ive just had the most experiance with them and their site. if anyone wants to assemble systems by other makes please feel free to, i didnt because i wrote that whole damn thing and i got kind of tired by the end :D
 
I am thinking of putting together a watercooling setup. Can you put more info on Fittings, How to powerup everything, PCI relay, How to mount stuff, and which tubes go to which (eg. pump > radiator > CPU block > GPU > NB chipset > reservoir > pump). Sorry if I get anything wrong, me newbie. Thanks! :D
 
Relays - Concept;: When the computer is turnedon, the relay closes a circuit which allows 110V current to flow to the water pump. The relay you purchase should come with instructions from the manufacturer. In general you will need to splice the pump wiring to the relay. However, many users will leave the pump running 24/7 regardless of whether the computer is turned on. Another alternative to a relay is the 12V pumps from Swiftech.

Common configurations are to go from pump >Radiator >GPU > NB >Res > Pump
The radiator before the blocks is to ensure the coolest water in the loop is going to the CPU block. In general the hottest components are CPU, GPU, then NB in that order.
 
kronchev said:
[..] and I disagree with that point about reses. Theyre much too small to offer a cooling benefit.
It completely depends on the size of the reservoir. If the reservoir is big enough, it contains enough water to make a radiator unnecessary, simply because there is too much water in the loop and reservoir to be significantly raised in temperature by the heat-producing components of the computer.

When Devil Pup did this, he was able to place the reservoir in the second case, which he had bolted to the case containing the system being cooled, though.

Now if only the pump could be eliminated... ;)
 
Can someone explain how to Fill and Bleed? or How to remove bubbles and test setup for leaks before turning it on? Thanks. :D
 
Well, bleeding your system really depends on how you have it set up. If you have a reservoir, the bleeding process is generally easier, as the bubbles should get trapped inside the res, and no longer be traveling through your loop. Reservoirs also have a hole (which you can plug) in them for you to pour water in. So, you just pour water in with your pump on, and keep pouring till its full. Bubbles will collect in the reservoir from inside the tubing/blocks/radiator allowing you to then pour more water in. Just keep doing this until all of the air is out of your system. It usually helps to move your componenets around a bit (turning, etc.) to get more air bubbles to come out and get to your res.

This same process applies if you have a T-line, however, the process takes a lot longer. The bubbles don't go up through the T as easily as they collect in a reservoir, so it takes a lot longer to complete the process.

If you are doing all of this for the first time, and testing for leaks, you'll probably want to do it outside of your case first, just in case you have any kind of major disasters! So, you set the whole loop up, bleed the air out, and usually put some kind of dye or coloring into the loop. What I usually do is set the loop up on top of some white towels or white paper or something, and just let it go for about 24 hours or so. If there were leaks, you should be able to see the dye on the towels or whatever you used, and should indicate where the leaks are coming from. Once I've done then, I usually then take it apart, and move it into my case, mount the blocks on the mobo, etc. Then I fill and bleed again, and let it run for a while again with the computer off, just to make sure... Once you've confirmed you have no leaks, then you're good to go. :)

Hope that helped a bit. :)
 
thanks Dark Ember. that was very informative :)

more questions.. :D

how do you power everything up? eg. pump, radiator, fans etc. do you hook it up to your PSU 12v connectors or do you use a separate power source? or use a PCI relay thing?
 
The only things that get turned on are the pump and fans and their configurations can vary. Normally the fans are connected to the computer's PSU. The pump, depending on its design, can be plugged to the computer's PSU or to a 120V source or to a completely different source. I have a Swiftec MCP600, so I have it connected to my computer's PSU; others like Eheim can be plugged into a wall's 120V outlet or modified to be connected to the PSU.
 
Bill Slade said:
others like Eheim can be plugged into a wall's 120V outlet or modified to be connected to the PSU.


Ehh... not really plug INTO the psu, per se. More like... detect that the PSU is powered on, therefore power on the pump. It would use a line off of your psu to detect that your computer is on. Thats what a relay would do, which only applies to 120V pumps.

Bottom line:

plug 12V pumps into your psu
plug 120V pumps into the wall socket (possibly with a relay on the line somewhere)


And like Bill said, fans get plugged into the psu. So, unless you are doing something rather extreme (phase change, water chillers, peltier, etc.), then that is all you will need to plug in. :)
 
thanks for the answers! :)

do you have to get a custom case for watercooling setup? is there anyway u can avoid drilling holes to mount radiator fans? i was thinking of getting the Black Ice Micro II (dual 80mm radiator) cuz my case has 2x80mm exhaust. would a dual 80mm radiator work as well as as single 120mm radiator?

if drilling holes is needed, what are good tools to drill the holes and mechanisms to secure it? thanks. sorry for so many questions :D
 
Well... most people just use regular cases and cut them apart a little bit. I've seen a lot of people secure them with zip ties, or long screws into fan holes. As far as performance goes... I can't say I would recomment a 2x80mm radiator. A single 120 would probably do you much better. And, a single 120mm fan is generally quieter than 2 80mm's. radiator thats a little bigger than than a 120mm fan thats really good is the Dtek Pro core. you can get schrouds for them to direct air from a 120 to the whole radiator. Works pretty well (its what I'm using atm). They come with a couple long bolts and wing-nuts that are long enough to mount the radiator, the shroud, and a 38mm thick fan on an existing 120mm fan hole.

If you need to drill holes... Dremels work very well, as do hole-saws. And of course, use a regular drill bit to drill screw holes. :)

And don't be sorry bout asking questions! Thats exactly what this thread is for!
 
thanks again for help.

what would you recommend for:

CPU/GPU/NB block:
pump: (eheim 1250/hydor l30/Swiftech MCP600,etc.)
radiator:
fans:
reservoir:
tubing:
coolant:
fittings (not sure what they are):

is it possible to hook 120mm radiator to the back of your case?
how do you mix the water and how much? i think you're suppose to use distilled water and 7% additive, water wetter, or dye or something.
 
Well, for your CPU block, you can't go wrong with a White Water from Dtek. Thats what I'm personally running right now, and its working great. However, theres a lot of other great waterblocks out there like the RBX and TDX from Danger Den, or the MCW6002 from Swiftech. Any of those blocks will do you very well.

I'm using Dtek's chipset block on my northbridge, and I guess it works well. I more or less just picked that one to match my CPU block. Your northbridge block doesn't matter nearly as much as the CPU one, as the northbridge doesn't create as much heat to deal with.

I'd don't really know much about GPU blocks, but I've heard some decent stuff about Danger Den's Maze 4 graphics block, and I would imagine that Dtek's graphics cooler would work fine too. Same with Swiftech's GPU block.

Pumps... pumps are a little complex in terms of what to get. Probably the first thing you are going to want to decide is whether to go 120V or 12V. With 120V pumps, you're going to have to plug it into a wall socket, and either leave it on 24/7, or make a relay for it to turn it on with your computer. So, if you go that route, and are planning on having three blocks in your system, or even 2 with one that is very resitrictive (restrictive blocks are white water, rbx, tdx), then you are going to want to get a pump with some power to overcome that, such as an Eheim 1250, or if you want to go all out, an Eheim 1060. If you are just planning on having one block (CPU), then you could get away with one of the less powerful pumps like an Eheim 1048 or something. All of these pumps are pretty quiet too, especially the 1048. A lot of people use Danner Mag 3 pumps and Danner Mag 5 pumps, but the 3's seem to have a small problem with the impeller housing (which is easily fixable) so if you mind dealing with that, you could save yourself some money. Another powerful 120V pump is the Hydor L30, which is a bit cheaper than the Eheims. I've never used one myself, so I can't really attest to the quality.

If you decide to go the 12V pump route, theres a few very good choices out there. The nifty thing about 12V pumps are that they can plug right into a 4pin molex connector on your PSU, so you don't have any extra cords sticking out, and you don't need to worry about a relay or anything. However, 12V pumps tend to be a bit more expensive than 120V ones are. As far as which one to get, I've heard nothing but good things about the Swiftech MCP600, although if you are running 3 blocks with a pretty restrictive one, that one may not be powerful enough. Dtek is also selling a 12V pump that is very comparable to the Swiftech one as well. The other VERY powerful 12V pump is the Laing D4, which Danger Den sells. This pump is what you are going to want if you have a bunch of blocks in your system. It pushes about twice as much water as the Swiftech one does at 0ft. head. Thats the pump I'm using right now, and it is working very well. This pump is a bit louder than the others though, so there is a tradeoff.

You have a lot of options for your radiator. You basically want to get something that uses a heatercore such as Dtek Pro-Core, Black Ice Extreme, or any of the heatcores Danger Den sells. You could also go to an Autoparts store and pick up heatcores for cars and put your own barbs on there fore pretty cheap. Just have to do a bit of research to make sure the heatercore you're buying is the size that you need. Also, you're going to want a shroud for your radiator to make sure there isn't a dead zone of air in the center of your fan(s). Check out the first post in this thread for more details on that.

Since you should be getting a radiator that uses 120mm fans, get some 120mm fans. Ones that aren't too loud for you. Evercool, Panaflo, YS-Tech, Delta, etc.


You don't actually *have* to get a reservoir if you don't want. You could instead put a T line in you rtubing, and just fill and bleed off of a piece of tube that sticks out. Thats kind of a pain in the ass, so if you don't feel like doing that, then get or make a res. Kronchev and I seem to agree to not get a bay-res, as we haven't heard much good stuff about them, but others disagree. Whatever you want to do, really. Danger Den's little round reservoir would work just fine, and mounts on an 80mm fan hole.

Get either Clearflex60 or Tygon tubing. The are fairly resistant to kinking.

For your coolant, you want to get distilled water from your grocery store, or something. And you can just put some Watter Wetter or your additive of choice in with it to kill bacteria, prevent corrosion, etc. You can more or less follow the directions on the bottle of whatever you buy for how much to put in. You could also put in a bit of antifreeze too. That will work fine.

So, thats a pretty quick run down of equipment. Now, to address your question of mounting a radiator to the back of your case. Yes, you can do that. I had a 120mm fan hole in the back of my case, so I was able to just use the buts and bolts that came with my radiator to bolt it right there (after cutting out the mesh/grill stuff in the case). Works just fine. Then i cut some holes in my case for my tubing to through to the radiator. :)

Hope this helps a bit. Another great website with all kinds of information about this stuff is www.procooling.com. Those guys really know what they're talking about. Great reviews, and great forums. You'll learn a lot. :)
 
Pump Heat

Many people are confused about pump heat and how it effects a system. On a lot of forums, this debate comes up for looking at how many watts a pump uses and if it is all converted to heat. To get some background - part of the energy the pump uses is to move the water, and part of the energy is wasted as heat. The part directly wasted as heat will usually partially make it into the water. For a submerged pump all of the heat enters the water, for an in-line at least part of the heat is radiated into the air.

But wait - there's more! So now that we know where the pure waste heat is going, either the air or water and not a really good way to measure it, what about the energy being used to move the water? When the pump starts up it starts moving the water through the loop. Shortly after the startup the water reaches a flow-rate (not using velocity since that is speed & direction) which remains stable as long as the pump is running. since the pump is still pushing the water, but the water is not getting any faster in the flow rate, where is the extra energy going? Primarily the energy is to overcome the friction of the lines, blocks, and other parts of the system. The end result is that this energy is showing up as, once again heat.

I think this summary about wraps up what came from several forums, while leaving out equations from specific pumps.
 
Ok my turn to ask questions.

I have always wanted to try watercooling but until now it seemed that it was just for those with lots if money or personal know-how as not many stores or vendors where selling such equipment. Well it seems to have become almost mainstream with quite a few options out there now. And thats where the problem begins.

I have noticed that there are different types of tops for blocks: Lucite, Copper, and Brass. What is Lucite? Is there supposed to be a performance difference between the three or is it strictly asthetics?

For tubing type I have seen ClearFlex and Tygon. What is the difference between the two? Also I noticed springs inside of tubes for some kits whats the purpose of the springs? To prevent bending?

Are Ziff sockets able to reliably hold down CPU blocks? My brother-in-law has broken tabs on ZIFF sockets when installing HSF's so I am a little partial to the hole mounted method at the moment. But it seems as though that mobo makers are beginning to leave them out.

I saw that DangerDen offers Neoprene? What is this for?

How can you tell if you will have a restrictive system or not?

Are HD coolers just a waste of time or do they work better than air-cooled HD coolers?

Pump speed. Does pump speed matter? I would think that you can actually have the water flowing to fast for it to pick up much heat versus it going a bit slower and the water carrying away a little more heat. Has anyone ever tested this theory? Is there such a thing as a variable GPH pump to fine tune your system? Also what do you mean by relay's? Just a wire from the PSU that tells the pump that the computer is on?

Is it a good idea to lap the blocks when you get them or do they come polished enough now that it really isn't necessary?

I am beginning my research now but wont buy anything for about 2 more months. It takes me forever to make up my mind because I like to research each and every aspect before buying. God damned internet.
 
yourdeardaniel: fittings are barbs, the thing you slip hoses over and clamp the hoses onto. you should either brass or plastic, anything else may corrode. i personally only use brass if i have the choice as plastic always felt flimsy to me, but my block has plastic barbs and ive had no problem.

BoogerBomb: lucide is the top material, its just clear plastic. some people want solid tops, some want lucite, it is just astetic.

tygon is strict standards tubing, for food and chemical handling. it has no advantage over clearflex, its just more expensive.

ZIF sockets can, but only a few blocks have that. the hole-mounting is much better IMO

neoprene is for getting a TEC module. a TEC module gets really hot on one side and really cold on the other. you cool the hot side with watercooling and have the cold side on the CPU. theyre not really mainstream and kind of hard IMO as since its cold, it gets condensation, so you need to insulate around the CPU and the TEC with this stuff.

as long as you dont have anything making it restrictive (tubing size changes, multiple restrictive parts) you will be fine.

they cool your harddrives, some people want to only have fans on their radiator and none others. others want their hard drives as cold as possible. its personal preferrence, personally i dont use them because i have two fans blowing over my drives

i will post the chart i had on pumps. pump max head is a lot more important than GPH. relays are electrical parts that turn something on when you apply voltage to it. how theyre used is you hook the sensative part to your 5v line or something, then the pump's power to the other side. when the computer's PSU turns on, it triggers the pump on.

again, personal preference. i lap only because i got a kit but with the major makers (dangerden, dtek) its not a big issue, they usually come with a nice finish.
 
Dark Ember said:
Well, after putting a reservoir in my system after having a T (and effectively doubling the amount of water I was running from approx. 2 to 4 cups), my temps dropped about 2.5C or so. So I stand by my statement! :p

Under a load, your system WILL eventually reach the same temperature. regardless of whether or not you have a reservoir. EVENTUALLY, all the water will get heated to the same temp, it just takes alot longer when you have a larger quantity of water to heat. Much as the same cooking a cake, larger cakes require longer cooking times...more heat capacity, but eventually, both get to the same temperature. :D
 
do most people who water cool their systems only have the radiator fan going(as in that is the only fan in the whole sustem)? and also, my pc (air cooled) heats up the small room i keep it in quite a bit now that it is summertime, does a watercooled system cool down the overall heat produced from the system so that it is noticibly cooler than an air cooled system? and one more question, do most people get a waterblock for the northbridge, cpu, and gpu, or mainly just the gpu and cpu, or maybe the cpu and northbridge?

im looking into watercooling my system in the upcoming months, and thanks to everyone here ill hopefully be able to do it successfully, so thanks! :D
 
Fans: I would say probably not. I mean, you have the fan on your radiator, and at least one more in your power supply. I myself have a 120 intake on the side, a 120 intake on the front, and a 120 blowhole up at the top of my case, in addition to the 120 on my radiator in the back of my case. I also have a fan on my video card, as I don't water cool that either. I still like to have good airflow in my case to make sure that the rest of my components stay cool. I have a couple 15k rpm drives in my case and a 10k rpm drive, so those get pretty hot, as do the FETs on my motherboard, so I want to make sure that those stay cool as well. Having more fans certainly can't hurt, at any rate (well, it might hurt your ears... but get quiet fans!)

Heat: It will NOT reduce the overall heat output from your system. Every component is still creating the same amount of heat, you are just removing it in a different way. In fact, watercooling might even increase the heat output from your case, as you are more efficiently moving the heat to the outside of your case.

Blocks: A lot of people get all 3, a lot of people get 2, and a lot of people just cool their CPU. It all depends on what you want to do. I don't cool my GPU because my video card sucks. I do have a northbridge block, however, I'm probably going to take it off soon because it didn't help with increasing the FSB on my board at all. So, it just depends on what you want, I guess. One thing to keep in mind though: the more blocks you have, the more restrictive your loop will be, which means you'll need a more powerful pump that handles high head situations well (like the Laing D4 or MCP600).

Hope this answers some of your questions! :)
 
I heard from some people that you can't leave a watercooled rig on for long periods of time. Personally, I haven't turned my PC off for monthes. Would I have a problem if I switched to water cooling?
 
MasterOfPupets said:
I heard from some people that you can't leave a watercooled rig on for long periods of time. Personally, I haven't turned my PC off for monthes. Would I have a problem if I switched to water cooling?


I don't think you would have a problem, i have known several people to leave theirs on constantly. Since a lot of wc pumps are designed for aquariums, they are meant to run continously. So, I'm sure that this would be fine for your system as well, as long as your ambient temps are normal and the water doesn't heat up too much over time. Just be sure to keep an eye on it for leaks..
 
Dark Ember said:
Ehh... not really plug INTO the psu, per se. More like... detect that the PSU is powered on, therefore power on the pump. It would use a line off of your psu to detect that your computer is on. Thats what a relay would do, which only applies to 120V pumps.

Bottom line:

plug 12V pumps into your psu
plug 120V pumps into the wall socket (possibly with a relay on the line somewhere)


And like Bill said, fans get plugged into the psu. So, unless you are doing something rather extreme (phase change, water chillers, peltier, etc.), then that is all you will need to plug in. :)
whats phase change and water chillers?
 
yourdeardaniel said:
thanks for the answers! :)

do you have to get a custom case for watercooling setup? is there anyway u can avoid drilling holes to mount radiator fans? i was thinking of getting the Black Ice Micro II (dual 80mm radiator) cuz my case has 2x80mm exhaust. would a dual 80mm radiator work as well as as single 120mm radiator?

if drilling holes is needed, what are good tools to drill the holes and mechanisms to secure it? thanks. sorry for so many questions :D
no, you dont need a custom case, you just need to be creative for mounting stuff

i m guessin you can avoid drilling holes by subbing it with duct tape or something

good tools to drill the holes is a power drill and mechanisms to secure it, IMO, is nuts and bolts and washers

questions is what this forum is all about.. we share experience and knowledge and that is possible thru the asking of questions

edit- if your saying dual 80mm radiator as in two fans on one side as opposed to one 120mm fan on one side, then yes, it should work better... but if your saying 2 80mm fans, one on each side, as opposed to 120mm radiator with one fan on each side, then no, it probably wont work as good although should work somewhat decently
 
can you guys expand on the following stuff... i noted these down on notepad as i went along thruout the thread

pushing power/head- feet...pump max head?... what is this?

whats impeller housing?

how to use/build relays and how much/how does it work?... can i hook up a small relay i get off jameco or something instead of using a PCI relay card?, what is good about a PCI relay card besides a way to mount it?

is a heatercore the rad or is heatercore something thats INSIDE the rad?

how do i put on my own barbs... is it cheap?. easy?

is shrouds really THAT important?... are they makeable?... what if you stick two 80mm-120mm fan adaptors together to create your own shroud

the guy that made the moving computer table that tilts upwards had made a res out of tupperware

whats kinking?


now for my 2 cents on quoted stuff
quoted- For tubing type I have seen ClearFlex and Tygon. What is the difference between the two? Also I noticed springs inside of tubes for some kits whats the purpose of the springs? To prevent bending?
-answered on the first page briefly stating same thing but tygon is for food and lab purposes

quoted-I am beginning my research now but wont buy anything for about 2 more months. It takes me forever to make up my mind because I like to research each and every aspect before buying. God damned internet.
-very good..research is what builds up a good system

also...
i know what ZIF is but what exactly does it stand for?

a lil note...
TEC, aka peltier aka thermoelectric


another quote thing
quoted-do most people who water cool their systems only have the radiator fan going(as in that is the only fan in the whole sustem)? and also, my pc (air cooled) heats up the small room i keep it in quite a bit now that it is summertime, does a watercooled system cool down the overall heat produced from the system so that it is noticibly cooler than an air cooled system? and one more question, do most people get a waterblock for the northbridge, cpu, and gpu, or mainly just the gpu and cpu, or maybe the cpu and northbridge?
-the psu also has a fan too... my pc also heats up my small room and during the winter, i leave it on for the night as a heater because it provides sooo much heat... now its summer and i m dead
-i would also like to know if a WC system reduces the overall heat produced from the system
- the waterblocks are pretty much your choice to pick between CPU, GPU, NB, etc... ive seen people do waterblocks for EVERYTHING including system ram and video ram and harddrives and powersupplies and more


thanks for all this info, it helped me understand more bout watercooling
 
hey guys, not sure if anyone posted anything about "MasterKleer" tubing, but if anyone's used it, it could be included into the FAQ kronch has. Anyone got comments on it?

flip
 
Back
Top