Which 500~W PSU?

First of all, here is my current system:

AXP 35W Mobile
1024MB CH-5
Geforce 6800
7x120mm fans
2x92mm Tornados
2x WD 36GB Raptors
1 CD-RW and 1xDVD-Burner
NF7-S

Here is the list of PSU's that im looking at:

Thermaltake:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_i...oducts_id=3092

Fortron:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...104-973&depa=0

Enermax:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_i...oducts_id=3753

Antec:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-910&depa=0

Another Antec:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-922&depa=0

And Another Antec:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-918&depa=0

btw whats the difference between these three Antecs?

Now the question is, which is the best psu within the list i gave(or from elsewhere)? The models i listed, other than the Antecs all have PFC, which seems to be important (tho i have no clue what this is really, can someone explain???). Some ppl recommended the Antec 550W to me, perhaps cuz it has separate 3v/5v/12v rails. Should i go antec coz of this?

The real question is, is 550W overkill? I think all the PSU's have atleast 18A on the 12v rail, and i dont think more than that is needed. The 3.3v and 5v seems to me more than enough. Im gonna be oc'ing, just to let u ppl know.

If 550W is overkill, and 480W is sufficient, then ill prolly go Tt, since it looks real good and doesnt cost much. Plus, i liked this old anandtech review, here it is:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1841&p=25

So any suggestions? the budget is around 100~ max.

Thanks,

I really like my Antec TrueControl 550, love the adjustable rails from the front panel. It's a great, stable psu.

i had a couple of the Antec TrueControl PSUs and they all had low voltages under heavy overclocking. they were all in spec, but even when i adjusted them up, they were below 3.3, 5 and 12v.

i'd check out this Sparkle PSU. it's the same as the 530w Fortron unit that i have powering my dualie rig, and it works great. it has adjustable rails as well, but you have to open the PSU up to get to them. fortunatly, i don't know many people that have actually needed to tweak with them.

you may also want to check out PC Power & Cooling. they make some of the best PSUs available. just about the only complaint i've heard about their products is price, but you really do get what you pay for.

forget all of those...find a way to get rich and then get yourself a PC Power and Cooling 510W PSU....you can't go wrong with them, but there like $200

Originally Posted by Viper87227

forget all of those...find a way to get rich and then get yourself a PC Power and Cooling 510W PSU....you can't go wrong with them, but there like $200

While i do believe it is important to inform him of what the best psu is, he did mention that cost was a factor. Sticking within the OP's parameters i'd have to say the Antec True 480/550 or the Fortron/Sparkle 530w model.

I bought this psu works great the 5 and 12 + lines have one pot to adjust the rails together its great its not terribly quiet however it has 4 fans and they make the same size psu with different fan configs
http://www.directron.com/tt5204fanc.html
heres a review for the 550 watt
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules...owcontent&id=8

Originally Posted by SJetski71

While i do believe it is important to inform him of what the best psu is, he did mention that cost was a factor. Sticking within the OP's parameters i'd have to say the Antec True 480/550 or the Fortron/Sparkle 530w model.

agreed
the difference between the True Contol and the others is listed above
the difference between the TRUE550 EPS12V and the others is
that it has a 24 pin main connector
and an 8 pin +12V auxillary connector per the EPS12V SSI Compliant spec

the form factors for the others is ATX which is a 20 pin Main connector
however the ATX12V spec calls for a 24 pin Connector w\ a 4pin +12V Aux
Id recommend you check your mobo, and in any event get a new ATX12V or EPS12V compliant supply if you want it to have any long term use
adapters are readily available, and often arent even required if there is room next to the connector to hang the extra connectors off the side

actually newegg might have both those others incorrectly listed
they are likley ATX12V v1.0 (which are 20 pin mains w\ 4pin Aux) whereas the new spec is ATX12V v2.0 with the 24 pin main & 4 pin Aux
the actaul ATX spec is quite old, but as you can gather from the above, they may have done this to avoid confusion regarding the number of pins on the main connector

get an ATX12V v2.0 spec PSU in any event with the 24pin connector
it calls for dual +12V rails and is futureproofing as much as that is possible these days
and get it as big as you can, there are alot of power hungry components comin down the track
* If your looking at this as an infrastructure investment, instead of a quick fix

Originally Posted by SJetski71

While i do believe it is important to inform him of what the best psu is, he did mention that cost was a factor. Sticking within the OP's parameters i'd have to say the Antec True 480/550 or the Fortron/Sparkle 530w model.

Aha, missed that last bit about being on a budget. I then woudl say go with a Antec Truepower...ive heard good things about those, and if you got a few extra bucks and want something good looking, theres the True Blue varient

Again I never cease to be amazed at the logic.
You can spend over $1000.00 but can't come up with the extra scratch to by the best PS

until quite recently the "extra" performance of the "best" wasnt really required under most "normal" use

the exceptions being a massive number of things to spin up, an overclock at the edge of stability, or poor values\components on the other ends of the power chain (utility instability or poor mobo regulation)

however with the substantial increases in the +12V draw
(CPU switching from the +5V to +12V, graphics cards ect)
and the increased frequency of the FSB, with the wide variations of onboard voltage regulation schemes and component quality employed by various mobo manufacturers
its suddenly become a much more important component

and since we are unable to assess the reliability of other components very well
(source power and mobo voltage regulation)
better safe than sorry is a prudent approach, so it a power conditioner or UPS

Originally Posted by Ice Czar

agreed
the difference between the True Contol and the others is listed above
the difference between the TRUE550 EPS12V and the others is
that it has a 24 pin main connector
and an 8 pin +12V auxillary connector per the EPS12V SSI Compliant spec

the form factors for the others is ATX which is a 20 pin Main connector
however the ATX12V spec calls for a 24 pin Connector w\ a 4pin +12V Aux
Id recommend you check your mobo, and in any event get a new ATX12V or EPS12V compliant supply if you want it to have any long term use
adapters are readily available, and often arent even required if there is room next to the connector to hang the extra connectors off the side

actually newegg might have both those others incorrectly listed
they are likley ATX12V v1.0 (which are 20 pin mains w\ 4pin Aux) whereas the new spec is ATX12V v2.0 with the 24 pin main & 4 pin Aux
the actaul ATX spec is quite old, but as you can gather from the above, they may have done this to avoid confusion regarding the number of pins on the main connector

get an ATX12V v2.0 spec PSU in any event with the 24pin connector
it calls for dual +12V rails and is futureproofing as much as that is possible these days
and get it as big as you can, there are alot of power hungry components comin down the track
* If your looking at this as an infrastructure investment, instead of a quick fix

ive read the whole post but i cant actually understand one thing. is teh new atx, or the one with the 24pin connector compatible with the nf7? or do i need a adapter? what are the advantages of this new atx v2.0?

is the Tt, enermax and the fortron atx v2.0 specced? im a bit confused, never hears of this before.

thanks!

the Fortron linked is an EPS12V so has the 24pin + 8pin aux
the Enermax is ATX12V v1 with a 20 pin connector + 4 pin aux
the Thermaltake is ATX12V v1 with a 20 pin connector + 4 pin aux

the NF7-S takes a 20 pin main and 4 pin aux and has a cap on one end which might interfere with using a 24pin in the 20 pin slot

ATX = 20 pin plug, your Pentium III's ATX connector and PS

ATX12V v1.1 = 20 pin atx connector + 4-pin plug for "Additional 12V" (same pdf as above)

ATX12V v2.0 = 24 pin atx connector + 4-pin plug for "Additional 12V"

ATX12V v2.2 = 24 pin atx connector + 4-pin plug for Aux +12V to support PCI Express

SSI Compliant PSUs

EPS12V v1.6 = Power supply with 24-pin EPS12V connector, plus one 8-pin additional 12v connector

EPS12V v2.1 = Power supply with 24-pin EPS12V connector, plus one 8-pin additional 12v connector
added higher power levels for 650 watt PSUs and updated 12v peak requirements for 450 & 550 watt PSUs

in short the latest editions have more +12V to power CPU(s), graphics and buses
with dual or even quad 12V rails for example
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_p...Gid=26&Gid2=35
DC OUT....Rip&Noise...Tolerence...Rng1..Max/Min..Range 2.......Range 3........Range 4
+12V 1 ......120mV ......+5%,-4%..... 1.5A / 14A..... 0.5A / 5A.....1.5A / 14A... 0.5A / 9A
+12V 2 ......120mV ......+5%,-4%..... 1.5A / 16A..... 0.5A / 4A ....1.5A / 18A... 0.5A / 6A
+12V 3 ......120mV ......+5%,-4%..... 1.5A / 16A .....0.5A / 6A ....1.5A / 16A... 0.5A / 9A
+12V 4 ......120mV ......+5%,-4%..... 1.5A / 14A .....2A / 5A .......1.5A / 14A... 2A / 9A


a 20 to 24 pin adapter
http://www.highpowersupply.com/product-ac-2024.htm


Power supplies become increasingly expensive

He then described the history of the post-P3 power supply mess:

The earlier Athlon motherboard manufacturers decided to solve the 12v problem by using an additional 4-pin square connector to get the extra 12V those CPUs required. However many older PSUs didn't provide the 12V 4-pin square connector.

The motherboard makers then wised up and decided that there was nothing magical about a square 4-pin connector, so they put a normal hard disk type socket on the motherboard and provided the 12v power via a standard hard disk (4-pin inline) connector. Problem solved - you may now use your older PSUs provided they supply sufficient 12V current (many did not).

Further confusion came from PSU manufacturers not specifying the capabilities of the PSU in a way that allowed the end user to verify it's 12V power output rating.

In the meantime the ATX spec was saying "use the new 6-pin" inline connector - and very few motherboard makers implemented it.

Just to be sure, some motherboard makers, implemented *both* the hard disk style 4-pin inline connector and the square 4-pin connector. They said "use either or both in any combination you like".

The spec then evolved to the 24-pin main connector. Again, most motherboard manufacturers did not wish to make their customers mad by mandating that they replace their power supplies. This might cause their customers to avoid motherboard upgrades. Some used a "special" 24-pin connector with the extra 4-pin connection blocked off, or colored so that the user could plugin a 20-pin plug into the correct end of the 24-pin socket on the motherboard. Many others simply ignored the 24-pin requirement in the specs. Again - problem solved - use your older PSU.

only the older PSU often dosent have the +12V to spare, and even if it does today, will be handicapped in the future
its a good bet all PCI Express boards will have 24 pin main power connectors
and require at least dual 12V rails

as far as EPS12V goes in comparision to a ATX12V, they are basically the same inside
EPS is a Server System Infrastructure specification developed by intel, and early on addressed the extra power requirements of dual CPU boards and more power hungry buses and devices (AMD ATXGES predates it for the same general requirements), if there is room around a 4pin aux connector the 8pin can be used, just like the 24 pin in a 20, the PCP&C in my sig is an EPS12V

The Sparkle 530W will take care of all your computeriffic needs quite well.

ok, thanks a lot for the replies everyone, especially ice czar. u were a great help.

now, i just get the fortron 550W with the 24pin to 20pin adapter? now is it ATX12V v2.0, or is it ATX12V v2.2 ?

and EPS means that it is SSI compliant, right?

the fortron seems to be the best of the bunch. now im not too concerned with looks, and im more onto performance. the fortron seems to be the best in that respect.do i need a 24 to 20pin adapter for it tho?

and u mentioned that the atx12v v2.2 and the atx12v v2.0 are the same, except that the v2.2 has the additional 4pin for aux pci express, whereas the v2.0 has the additional 4pin for "additional 12V". now whats the difference, and which one's better and in what respect? and the atx12v v2.0 and v2.2 are only known as the EPS version, and the others(v1, 1.1) are not EPS. isnt that so, can u plz clear this little mess?

im a bit confused, sorry to disturb u so much ice czar just a little more and ill appreciate it soo much. i cant believe u did so much searching.

thanks again,

maz

Originally Posted by Viper87227

forget all of those...find a way to get rich and then get yourself a PC Power and Cooling 510W PSU....you can't go wrong with them, but there like $200

I vote the 425 deluxe. I run one , they cost less than the 510. You only need the 510 if your super hardcore overclocking.

there where no physical configuration changes from the v2.0 to the v2.2 spec change they simply upgraded the +12V rails again

Id assume the Fortron is v2.2

the EPS12V standard is an SSI standard
and EPS12V and ATX12V 24pin connector are the same with the same pinout
so an adaptor would work for either (if required)
but the EPS12V has the 8 pin aux

Originally Posted by Ice Czar

there where no physical configuration changes from the v2.0 to the v2.2 spec change they simply upgraded the +12V rails again

Id assume the Fortron is v2.2

the EPS12V standard is an SSI standard
and EPS12V and ATX12V 24pin connector are the same with the same pinout
so an adaptor would work for either (if required)
but the EPS12V has the 8 pin aux

ok, its v2.2 atx, but is it EPS v2.1 or v1.6?

now, if the fortron is indeed EPS v2.0/v2.2 and SSI compliant, it should have a really powerful 12v rail, but why does it only push 18A whereas the antec 480W pushes 22A? Or are there other factors such as Dual rails and all.?

and btw does the extra 8pin aux in the eps versions come into any use in desktops?

thanks again ice czar,

maz

can you link me to the models your looking at?
rails vary, and often you need to look at the factory specs to get answers for what a dual rail will be putting out, the retailers not going that far
(not breaking out the new spec instead combining them so consumers are comparing apples to apples)

some supplies are dual spec both ATX12V & EPS12V meaning the performance metrics meet both specs which ideally they would like to have
a single basic model just having a few connector changes and be offered as two different models, or just dual aux connectors with both a 8 & 4 pin aux

My PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 ATX - PFC is the same basic model as any other of the 510 Turbo Cools, but has the 24 main 8 aux and a 6 AGP Pro
thus its a "T51X-AG" but thats just the wiring harness option as far as I can tell
It a EPS12V because of the 8pin, as a matter of fact had I been bright Id have custom ordered it with a dual 4 & 8 pin through their custom options

However I was impatient, and the AG (AGP Pro) model is a "call for availability" anyway
they had one I took it, and Im now customizing the harness myself
(wackin down the main connector length from 25" to +3" )

here are the links:

Fortron:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...104-973&depa=0

All of the other ones are in teh first post, but i think im leaning towards this fortron.

now can u plz explain what PFC is, and if this fortron if EPS v1.6 or v2.1?

thanks!

PFC = Power Factor Correction

Power factor is the ratio of the real load to the actual load of the device. Here's a link to some information about PFC:

http://www.lmphotonics.com/pwrfact.htm

Basically what this means for a PSU is that the transformer on the AC line in is skewing the phase of the voltage, and there is active capacitive correction to correct the inductive power factor. It will save money on your electric bill by reducing the apparent power you are paying for.