DOOM3 : 512MB of video memory requirement explained here.

ShePearl

Limp Gawd
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http://www.shacknews.com/finger/[email protected]
Name: Robert A. Duffy
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Description: Programmer
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Last Updated: 07/26/2004 12:48:39 (Central Standard Time)
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July.26.2004
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I've seen quite a few posts in the forums about "Ultra" quality and why we don't set this by default out of the box. I thought I would clarify a few of the reasons and also take the time to mention some of the hardware and software we found incredibly useful during the development of DOOM 3.

To put things in perspective, most production levels in DOOM 3 contain more media assets than all of Quake 3: Arena. When we started working on the memory foot print, our goal was a 256MB system. In most cases loading up an area of the game on a 256MB system works fine, the problems arise when you start to transition from one area to the next ( successive map loads ). Memory fragmentation starts to really work against us and it ultimately made it just not feasible for a reasonable play experience to support 256MB.

Two basic options make up the quality levels, sound diversity and image fidelity.

Sound diversity is effectively how many sounds we support per sound shader for a given "sound". There may be for instance, 7 different "bullet striking the wall" sounds for a given bullet. In low quality, we only use one sound for this vs randomly choosing between one of the seven available. When we started on memory optimization, most levels used between 80 and 100 megabytes of sound data. We made the choice to move to .OGG for quite a few sounds which effectively removed the problem for us.

Image fidelity is dependent on what quality level we load the textures at.

In Ultra quality, we load each texture; diffuse, specular, normal map at full resolution with no compression. In a typical DOOM 3 level, this can hover around a whopping 500MB of texture data. This will run on current hardware but obviously we cannot fit 500MB of texture data onto a 256MB card and the amount of texture data referenced in a give scene per frame ( 60 times a second ) can easily be 50MB+. This can cause some choppiness as a lot of memory bandwidth is being consumed. It does however look fantastic :) and it is certainly playable on high end systems but due to the hitching that can occur we chose to require a 512MB Video card before setting this automatically.

High quality uses compression ( DXT1,3,5 ) for specular and diffuse and no compression for normal maps. This looks very very close to Ultra quality but the compression does cause some loss. This is the quality that for instance the PC Gamer review was played in.

Medium quality uses compression for specular, diffuse, and normal maps. This still looks really really good but compressing the normal maps can produce a few artifacts especially on hard angled or round edges. This level gets us comfortably onto 128MB video cards.

Low quality does everything medium quality does but it also downsizes textures over 512x512 and we downsize specular maps to 64x64 in this mode as well. This fits us onto a 64MB video card.

One thing of note on the normal map compression is that generally speaking if you DXT a normal map you get really crappy results. NVIDIA hardware supports palettized compression which yields good compression and normal maps retain hard and round edges really well. Unfortunately this compression does a poor job in other cases and you end up getting splotchy areas. ATI does not support the palettized compression so we needed a better solution. ATI had done some research on various methods of normal map compression and we ended swapping the red and alpha ( which is zero in the case of a normal map ) channels. This effectively allows the compression to do a much better job and is just one extra instruction in the fragment program to move the alpha channel into the red channel. The bottom line on what happens on each card is as follows.

All modern NVIDIA and all ATI hardware use the compressed normal maps in Medium and Low qualities with the swizzled components.
NV10/20 hardware ( GF4MX and GF3 ) uses palettized normal maps in Medium and Low qualities.

Another question I have had multiple emails about, yes the game is capped at 60fps for normal game play. For render demos, like what was used for the HARD OCP stuff, we run those at full tilt which is why you will see > 60fps.
 
So does this mean with my 9800 pro I can only play on medium quality? Kinda sucks.
 
Milenko said:
So does this mean with my 9800 pro I can only play on medium quality? Kinda sucks.
If it is a 128MB card and you don't want choppiness.
 
High and ultra should look very similar, but I feel bad that I'm missing out on anything with "only" a 256 mb card. I hope this gdr3 shortages doesn't last, because from what I'm seeing the need for them will be on august 3/5th.
 
hahahah poor gt owners ...I've been telling you all the time wait at least one or two months and get a 512 card or at least pci-x card to have dual 256..but no one listen :p

I'm having my 512mb geforce soon and planing to run the game on the Utra quality mod ;)
 
SoLiD_MasteR said:
hahahah poor gt owners ...I've been telling you all the time wait at least one or two months and get a 512 card or at least pci-x card to have dual 256..but no one listen :p

I'm having my 512mb geforce soon and planing to run the game on the Utra quality mod ;)

you do realize that no 512mb card has been seen on a roadmap of nvidia or ati right? the only possibility i see is SLi at the moment
 
So in other words, it won't work well, if at all, on the Phantom, even if they did secure the rights to it. Brilliant.
 
It's kinda of depressing the only cards with enough memory, The Matrox Parhelia or 3D Labs' VP990, won't run the game quite right anyways.

DC
 
Definitely a good read, learned some stuff that I didn't know before. Does anyone really know specifically when the 512 cards come out? I saw a line up of the cards on the [H] mainpage but I can't find it anymore, it wasn't a road map though I don't think, just had the model etc. I believe. That and will we be seeing an even higher price premium on them, more than those of the 6800Us and 800XT-PEs?
 
i wouldn't be suprised if we didn't see 512mb videocard's until next year. however nvidia and ati may make a X800XTPE 512mb pci-e/6800U 512mb pci-e. to keep fans happy
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
you do realize that no 512mb card has been seen on a roadmap of nvidia or ati right? the only possibility i see is SLi at the moment

Who's to say that SLi of two 256 meg cards will resolve the issue? I'd be willing to bet that 256+256 is not = 512 in SLi. Both cards will likely need to load complete texture sets, not half each.
 
Micas said:
Who's to say that SLi of two 256 meg cards will resolve the issue? I'd be willing to bet that 256+256 is not = 512 in SLi. Both cards will likely need to load complete texture sets, not half each.

Correct, they trade frames, thus loading a complete texture set each.

DC
 
SoLiD_MasteR said:
hahahah poor gt owners ...I've been telling you all the time wait at least one or two months and get a 512 card or at least pci-x card to have dual 256..but no one listen :p

I'm having my 512mb geforce soon and planing to run the game on the Utra quality mod ;)


Why poor GT owner? I get to play now, and then again when next gen and 512 are available.

I played Far Cry on my 9800XT and its even more fun now on my GT. I dont see where there is an issue of "poor Gt owner"?
 
Micas said:
Who's to say that SLi of two 256 meg cards will resolve the issue? I'd be willing to bet that 256+256 is not = 512 in SLi. Both cards will likely need to load complete texture sets, not half each.

well then i guess i've learned at least 2 new things in this topic ;)
 
DeschutesCore said:
It's kinda of depressing the only cards with enough memory, The Matrox Parhelia or a Quadro VP990, won't run the game quite right anyways.

DC
NVIDIA = Quadro
3DLabs = VP990

;)
 
yes the game is capped at 60fps for normal game play.
Mrmm, this will probably make some people a bit angry. Doesn't bug me, but I know many friends who won't like this.
 
Even though I can't step into ultra (I can't even afford the game let alone gas) but I would just like to take this time a gloat especailly to all those who said "you don't need a 256 meg card, just buy a 128 meg and you'll be fine"


Also I think this is a good place to plug the old idea (even though no compaies are looking ta this) of being able to add more memory to your card.

Business view: cheaper prodcution base units that could be sold regradless of meory shortages if wanted and your biggest advantages of faster memory types and GPUs will still warrent buying a new upgrade.


Consumer view: you can add more memory as needed, cards will possibly be cheaper and you can jump up when you want to

Developer view: You can develop packages for thoes that go for the bigger is better crowd and don't have to wait for vendors to make cards with new memory.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
because there is no need to go further

Well, maybe there's no reason to go further but why did they do it in the first place? This is the first game I've seen do this.
 
splooger said:
Well, maybe there's no reason to go further but why did they do it in the first place? This is the first game I've seen do this.
To prevent some of the anomolies that are present in Quake III when you're able to run it at insane FPS like 200-300.
 
bigstusexy said:
Also I think this is a good place to plug the old idea (even though no compaies are looking ta this) of being able to add more memory to your card.

They stopped this due to latency & attenuantion issues.
 
High quality uses compression ( DXT1,3,5 ) for specular and diffuse and no compression for normal maps. This looks very very close to Ultra quality but the compression does cause some loss. This is the quality that for instance the PC Gamer review was played in.

Hrm, sure looks like they coulda used a certain lossless compression scheme to keep enable a certain vendors 256MB cards to run the Ultra quality mode :p.
 
SoLiD_MasteR said:
hahahah poor gt owners ...I've been telling you all the time wait at least one or two months and get a 512 card or at least pci-x card to have dual 256..but no one listen :p

I'm having my 512mb geforce soon and planing to run the game on the Utra quality mod ;)

We're still not listening...there is a ram shortage in progress if you haven't noticed...even if 512meg cards come to market they'll be like $700...not to mention Doom3 is the only game that would be able to use them...

Everyone will have Doom3 beaten by the time 512meg cards make it to market...and from what I've seen there is nor reason to believe that's going to happen any time soon...none have been announced...none appear on current roadmaps...none have even been seen or rumored about...

Basically you're waiting for nothing...except disappointment...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
We're still not listening...there is a ram shortage in progress if you haven't noticed...even if 512meg cards come to market they'll be like $700...not to mention Doom3 is the only game that would be able to use them...

Everyone will have Doom3 beaten by the time 512meg cards make it to market...and from what I've seen there is nor reason to believe that's going to happen any time soon...none have been announced...none appear on current roadmaps...none have even been seen or rumored about...

Basically you're waiting for nothing...except disappointment...

I guess ATI releasing a document that basically says they're going to be releasing a 512MB card later this year is a little too vague. Plus if ATI has them planned, I'm pretty sure nVidia has them on the roadmaps too.
 
gordon151 said:
I guess ATI releasing a document that basically says they're going to be releasing a 512MB card later this year is a little too vague. Plus if ATI has them planned, I'm pretty sure nVidia has them on the roadmaps too.

Must have missed that document...just got done looking at their roadmap and saw nothing about 512meg...the only place I've even heard it mentioned was in the NV40 launch...but again...there's no way it can happen this year...and that's the point...
 
some one must be making a 512 mb card. because i'm damn sure id has one in order to test doom 3 with.
 
gizo said:
some one must be making a 512 mb card. because i'm damn sure id has one in order to test doom 3 with.

I'm sure they want to make them...and they may even have prototypes as you suggest for development...but if they can't even get the 256meg versions to market...how can we expect them to get 512meg? And at what cost?
 
SoLiD_MasteR said:
hahahah poor gt owners ...I've been telling you all the time wait at least one or two months and get a 512 card or at least pci-x card to have dual 256..but no one listen :p

I'm having my 512mb geforce soon and planing to run the game on the Utra quality mod ;)

dont know if this has been stated but even in SLI mode youstill only have a total of 256 mbs that can be used. yes both cards have 256 each but from what ive ready they can only utalize 256 for output purposes or something along those lines.
 
DeschutesCore said:
They stopped this due to latency & attenuantion issues.

Yeah with RAM running @ 1GHz+, there's no way you'll get a clean signal if you use add-on boards, or another external attachment method. If you look at most cards, the manufacturers are moving the RAM closer and closer to the core(s). Look at the mem. config on the 5900+ - the RAM is basically in a tight "circle" around the core - the traces are less than 1.5".
 
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