WD 250 gig.. is this normal?

O

Owskie

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
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i just installed my 250 gig hard drive.. and it says i have 233 gig available, i have put nothing on it.. is this normal?
 
yea its the ntfs rule, it takes away some of your space for the file format system. its a fraction system i just don't know what it is.
 
Not to mention some mobos and Windows don't always report the corect amount of hard drive space. Nothing to worry about.
 
yea its the ntfs rule, it takes away some of your space for the file format system. its a fraction system i just don't know what it is.
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Not really. It's the HD manufactuers measuring KBs/MBs/GBs different than everyone else.
 
still seems like quite a hefty ammount
it also says that 233 is the top amount
 
Zlash said:
Not really. It's the HD manufactuers measuring KBs/MBs/GBs different than everyone else.
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How does that work? Doesn't the lack of support for huge drives in Windows effect it?
 
Hard Drive manufacturers make Hard Drive space based on X GB in base ten. Which means if I buy a 200GB HD, I really bought a 200, 000, 000, 000 byte Hard Drive and not an actual 200GB HD of actual computer disk space.

Here's a small chart:
10GB = 10,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 9.31 GB
20GB = 20,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 18.63 GB
30GB = 30,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 27.94 GB
40GB = 40,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 37.25 GB
60GB = 60,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 55.88 GB
80GB = 80,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 74.51 GB
100GB = 100,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 93.13 GB
120GB = 120,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 111.76 GB
160GB = 160,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 149.01 GB
180GB = 180,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 167.64 GB
200GB = 200,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 186.26 GB
250GB = 250,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 232.83 GB
 
Ok... Like one guy here said... the drive manufacturers sometimes use 1000mb/GB whereas the OS I think consideres 1 GB to be 1024GB. Also there is some space taken up by the filesystem. The larger the drive, the larger the difference.

I just got my 200 gig Seagate HDD and enclosure today and all format and sutup I have 186GB of usable space.

It's kind of annoying but with these huge hard drives it's not that big a deal although it is annoying that you don't actually get the full rated capacity to store files on. :)
 
When you buy Hard Drives your actually getting that amount in base ten not in base 2. Which means in your case your 250GB Hard Drive is a 250, 000, 000, 000 Byte Hard Drive which is actually 232.83GB of actual useable Disk Space.

10GB = 10,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 9.31 GB
20GB = 20,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 18.63 GB
30GB = 30,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 27.94 GB
40GB = 40,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 37.25 GB
60GB = 60,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 55.88 GB
80GB = 80,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 74.51 GB
100GB = 100,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 93.13 GB
120GB = 120,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 111.76 GB
160GB = 160,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 149.01 GB
180GB = 180,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 167.64 GB
200GB = 200,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 186.26 GB
250GB = 250,000,000,000 bytes Actual Size: 232.83 GB
 
4keatimj said:
How does that work? Doesn't the lack of support for huge drives in Windows effect it?
Click to expand...
if it was unsupported it would only show like 127gb, its the way the manufacturer measures the space, i think its in 1000 and not 1024 or something, anyways i did calcs and it didnt match on my drive, shows 180~gb (a 200gb) so there my theory on the way the measure it must be wrong and they measure it another way, cause im missing 10gb
 
For hard drive manufacturers, 1 KB = 1000 bytes, 1 MB = 1000 KB, and 1 GB = 1000 MB
For Windows, 1 KB = 1024 bytes, 1 MB = 1024 KB, and 1 GB = 1024 MB
They give you about 250000000000 bytes of storage (2.5 X 10^11). Divided by 1000, divided by 1000, divided by 1000 gives about 250 GB. Divided by 1024, divided by 1024, divided by 1024 gives about 233 GB. They rip you off for another 2.4% every time storage capacity goes up by a factor of 1000!
 
The rule of thumb is that you're going to lose ~7-10% of a drive's capacity after installation and formatting. This varies based on manufacturer and filesystem, but not too terribly much most of the time. Realize that drive manufacturers count in base 10, so 1GB to them is literally 1 billion bytes (1,000,000,000). Computers operate in binary, and so count in base 2. That 1GB turns into 2^30 bytes (1,073,741,824). There went a good chunk, now subtract another few percent for the filesystem (file metadata, filesystem structures like master file tables, various indices, etc.).
 
HD space by HD manufacturers are actually calculated like this:
the 250GB HD that you just bought is really 250, 000, 000, 000 bytes which is really 232.83GB of actual space.

Whatever the size of HD you buy it's actually in base 10 not base 2.
 
Yeah i know microsoft measures a giga byte different from what other peoples giga bytes is.. which is just weird.....
 
Zlash said:
Not really. It's the HD manufactuers measuring KBs/MBs/GBs different than everyone else.
Click to expand...
Funny thing that. One would figure 250GB drives would have... you know... 250 GB. Alas that has never been so. Funny how drive makers love to confuse people. Its should be marked a 233 GB drive, not 250, so as to avoid the less savvy users. Wouldnt you agree?

(or they should just make it exactly 250)
 
Snugglebear said:
The rule of thumb is that you're going to lose ~7-10% of a drive's capacity after installation and formatting. This varies based on manufacturer and filesystem, but not too terribly much most of the time. Realize that drive manufacturers count in base 10, so 1GB to them is literally 1 billion bytes (1,000,000,000). Computers operate in binary, and so count in base 2. That 1GB turns into 2^30 bytes (1,073,741,824). There went a good chunk, now subtract another few percent for the filesystem (file metadata, filesystem structures like master file tables, various indices, etc.).
Click to expand...

Exactly...I really wish drive manufacturers would report the formatted size of their drives :rolleyes:
 
and its not fair to blame just the HDD manufacturers,
Windows has failed to adopt the SI \ IEC \ NIST \ IEEE notation of space that would clear this up

the HDD manufacturers are correctly lableing their drives
say 160GB, GB gigabyte (the SI Prefix) not GiB gigabinary
but Windows is using the same decimal notation incorrectly to describe the binary space when it should be GiB, but Microsoft refuses to adopt the notation
and thus are as much "to blame" in perpetuating the issue as are the HDD manufacturers

National Institute of Standards and Technology, International System of Units (SI) Prefixes for Binary Multiples


Official publication
These prefixes for binary multiples, which were developed by IEC Technical Committee (TC) 25, Quantities and units, and their letter symbols, with the strong support of the International Committee for Weights and Measures (CIPM) and the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), were first adopted by the IEC as Amendment 2 to IEC International Standard IEC 60027-2: Letter symbols to be used in electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics. The full content of Amendment 2, which has a publication date of 1999-01, is reflected in the tables above and the suggestion regarding pronunciation. Subsequently the contents of this Amendment were incorportated in the second edition of IEC 60027-2, which has a publication date of 2000-11 (the first edition was published in 1972). The complete citation for this revised standard is IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics.


Historical context*
Once upon a time, computer professionals noticed that 2 to the tenth power was very nearly equal to 1000 and started using the SI prefix "kilo" to mean 1024. That worked well enough for a decade or two because everybody who talked kilobytes knew that the term implied 1024 bytes. But, almost overnight a much more numerous "everybody" bought computers, and the trade computer professionals needed to talk to physicists and engineers and even to ordinary people, most of whom know that a kilometer is 1000 meters and a kilogram is 1000 grams.

Then data storage for gigabytes, and even terabytes, became practical, and the storage devices were not constructed on binary trees, which meant that, for many practical purposes, binary arithmetic was less convenient than decimal arithmetic. The result is that today "everybody" does not "know" what a megabyte is. When discussing computer memory, most manufacturers use megabyte to mean 220 = 1 048 576 bytes, but the manufacturers of computer storage devices usually use the term to mean 1 000 000 bytes. Some designers of local area networks have used megabit per second to mean 1 048 576 bit/s, but all telecommunications engineers use it to mean 106 bit/s. And if two definitions of the megabyte are not enough, a third megabyte of 1 024 000 bytes is the megabyte used to format the familiar 90 mm (3 1/2 inch), "1.44 MB" diskette. The confusion is real, as is the potential for incompatibility in standards and in implemented systems.

Faced with this reality, the IEEE Standards Board decided that IEEE standards will use the conventional, internationally adopted, definitions of the SI prefixes. Mega will mean 1 000 000, except that the base-two definition may be used (if such usage is explicitly pointed out on a case-by-case basis) until such time that prefixes for binary multiples are adopted by an appropriate standards body.
Click to expand...

Decfimal vs Binary Measurement


the file system overhead makes up for the rest, trial O&O Defrag Pro and then analyize the drive, you will see the actual space used or reserved by the filesystem for the Master File Table in NTFS

4keatimj said:
How does that work? Doesn't the lack of support for huge drives in Windows effect it?
Click to expand...

thats a different issue that doesnt appear to be applicable here
that mobo appears to have 48bit LBA compatible BIOS and the OS has a service pack installed that changes the registry key to employ it

for more see > http://www.48bitlba.com/
or the thread regarding the 137GB (128GiB) barrier in the Data Storage FAQ sticky thread at the top of the board
 
SI can go shove it. Computers don't count in base 10; changing addressing systems to use base 10 would be inefficient & error prone, changing only the end-user display would be overly confusing. Moving to an unfamiliar notation like GiB would be similarly confusing. Metric week starts October 10th, be sure to raise a pint to the US Metric Association.
 
hard drive manufactures advertise a 250gb drive as being 250,000,000,000 bytes. this isnt accurate...

1,048,576 bytes = 1 megabyte
1,048,576,000 bytes = 1 gigabyte

250,000,000,000 / 1,048,576,000 = 238.418 gigabytes

thats my take on it, so your seeing about the right size once you consider that the formatting removes some space.
 
Back in the day of small harddrives the difference between a drive in base 10 and binary wasn't much, maybe but now with a 200 gig drive you lose a hefty chunk of space, it allows them to sell the hardrive as 160 gig, even it's it's not a true 160 gig, they won't change because 95 percent of the computer markey of people who by them don't really know the difference.
 
Snugglebear said:
SI can go shove it. Computers don't count in base 10; changing addressing systems to use base 10 would be inefficient & error prone, changing only the end-user display would be overly confusing. Moving to an unfamiliar notation like GiB would be similarly confusing. Metric week starts October 10th, be sure to raise a pint to the US Metric Association.
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SI didnt start it though,
lazy geeks did by adopting the SI Decimal System to Describe a Binary one :p

and a solution has been radified for that, the extra "i" isnt all that confusing
compared to what currently exists, only its not being implemented

n00b > what does that "i" stand for?
(entry point for education)
vs
n00b > "my HDD is busted its only showing XGBs"

they have to learn either way, one is just easier than the other IMO
 
Ineveitably many will think a computer is somehow broken or better because one says GiB and another GB. Frankly, GB in ^2 is the de facto standard and it's not going to change becuase the standards groups promoted and accepted the wrong standard. Might as well move to metric time as well, along with our new metric calendar.
 
the confusion however is that the prefix giga predates that
and while binary is the defacto standard no one uses its with ease
they are however able to mentaly juggle the decimal system (since that is native to all common arithmetic)
its because there is that decimal groundwork in place, and then the binary part of the equation thrown in that issues arise

I perfer the metric system for many things even growing up in the "Standard System"
unfortunately weights and time arent among those but temperature and distance definately are
(learned celsius temperature appreciation in here, just too handy to tell how far above freezing you are)

the one thing that is pretty sure, until those standards are adopted the issue will not go away
you cant have one notation mean 2 seperate things without confusion
 
The systems are arbitrary. As much as metric people try to go on and on about base-10 being easier, that numeric system is also arbitrary and has no particular advantages over the others. I can count binary on my fingers just as easily as base-10, and even count higher. :p
 
For some reason this thread is giving me problems, I would post but it wouldn't show up, which is why I like double posted by accident.

Every other thread, I see and post fine, but for some reason this one thread is just awful for me. Dunno why.

Anyways that info I provided above is from WD on the following link:
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc...HNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD03MjEmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=


Why is my drive displaying a smaller than expected capacity in Windows or Mac?

Question
Why is my drive displaying a slightly less than expected capacity in Windows or Mac?

Answer
Determining drive capacity can be confusing at times because of the different measurement standards that are often used. When dealing with Windows and Mac based systems, you will commonly see both decimal measurements and binary measurements of a drive's capacity. In either case, a drive's capacity is measured by using the total number of bytes available on the drive. As long as the drive displays the correct number of bytes (approximate), you are getting the drive's full capacity.

Decimal vs. Binary:
For simplicity and consistency, hard drive manufacturers define a megabyte as 1,000,000 bytes and a gigabyte as 1,000,000,000 bytes. This is a decimal (base 10) measurement and is the industry standard. However, certain system BIOSs, FDISK and Windows define a megabyte as 1,048,576 bytes and a gigabyte as 1,073,741,824 bytes. Mac systems also use these values. These are binary (base 2) measurements.

To Determine Decimal Capacity:
A decimal capacity is determined by dividing the total number of bytes, by the number of bytes per gigabyte (1,000,000,000 using base 10).

To Determine Binary Capacity:
A binary capacity is determined by dividing the total number of bytes, by the number of bytes per gigabyte (1,073,741,824 using base 2).
This is why different utilities will report different capacities for the same drive. The number of bytes is the same, but a different number of bytes is used to make a megabyte and a gigabyte. This is similar to the difference between 0 degrees Celsius and 32 degrees Fahrenheit. It is the same temperature, but will be reported differently depending on the scale you are using.
Click to expand...
 
So all we need to do is get Microsoft to have Longhorn to measure diskspace in base10 and that problem should be solved overnight :p

Seeing as how once Microsoft adopts it, everyone else will follow
 
This is just a notation thing. People are exploiting the fact that giga actually means 10^9 but microsoft uses it to represent 1.073741824*10^9. It's not a matter of changing the way operation systems work, it's just a matter of denoting how much space your talking about effectivly.

I don't know why people think it's a good idea to represent two different numbers with the the letters GB, it makes it ambiguous.

Ineveitably many will think a computer is somehow broken or better because one says GiB and another GB.
Click to expand...

That may be the case but in that situation one could simply look up the definition of GB and GiB and find out what it meant. Currently two computers one with 200 GB of storage space and the other with 200 GB of storage space can't really be compared when one could have more space based on a whim or prefrence.

Might as well move to metric time as well
Click to expand...

Might as well denote both minutes and hours with the same letter ... how about GT. Will you be confused in less than 10GT or less than 10GT?
 
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