Whats with people recommending s754 chipsets instead of s939s??!?

G

GizmoC

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Hello.

Just when I had pretty much ironed out my CPU/mobo choice, I start seeing people recommending s754 chipsets (with those DFI Lanparty boards) instead of s949s.

Back when s939 came out, benchmarks clearly showed that they perfomred better than s754.
And then I told myself, "ok, thats good. s939 3500+ it is".

And now.... people have suddenly started recommending s754s again? Whats up? Did you guys miss out on some details earlier? Are reviewers finding "bad things" about s939s now that they are widely used? Also, I've seen people raving about the DFI Lanparty board coupled with s754. Does this board have anything to do with people recommending s754 chips again? If so, then that board must be something special.... whats s special about it?

Also, maybe DFI is coming out with a s939 version of their board soon? I've waited for 3 years to upgrade from my 1ghz tbird. I can wait a lil longer.

Please, guide me.
 
i think it's more like... ya know what ya got with the 754 as opposed to the 939. it's TOO new....still
 
slammer, thanks for replying. But, honestly man, I was expecting a more informed opinion.

I posted this on another forum

As you might've guessed, I am not in the loop of things here.

As I stated in the orignal post, why are people recommending the s754s over the s939s? The latter are clearly newer (and maybe better?) technology.... and with the new 90nm chips out, I dont understand why people are recommending the s754?

Dont get angry.. but, I am beginning to think that those who are recommending the s754 are the "ol timers who dont want to venture into technology... or just angry they cant have it... or just living in self-denail". Just a thought..
 
what i've noticed is that a lot of people with s754s are able to get a processor for cheaper that will overclock just as much as the s939s... so basically they are saving money for other parts and just overclocking to hit 2.5-2.7 ghz, depending on air or h2o cooling :D

personally i have a s939 3500+ that rocks my socks off, if you have the $$$ to buy one, then go for it, cause if you get the new dfi board, the msi neo2, or the new asus a8v rev2. then you'll be overclocking like a madman yourself :) the s939s are gonna be around a lot longer than the s754, so you are paying for the future
 
If you really want to be on the cutting edge, then get one of the new 3000+ or 3200+ 939 chips build on the 90 nm process. They start below $200.

Monarchcomputer.com
 
The peformance gain of dual channel (Socket 939) on a A64 processor is not as significant as expected. (A64's are not as memory limited as P4's are)

The DFI Lanparty Socket 754 motherboard is the best overclocking motherboard for A64 processors currently available. (Infact highly overclocked S 754 DFI based systems tend to show the best performance in games of any system currently available.)

Socket 754 cpu's are significantly cheaper than Socket 939 processors.

Add all those up, and you see why people are recommending S754 even though S939's are faster. (in general, esp when not overclocked)

see: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198

==>Lazn
 
When the 939's first came out they were WAY too expensive to reccommend in general. Now that the 90nm procs have hit the market, I think you'll see them get more reccomendations. The other Issue at hand is there isn't as much experience with the 939 platform in the general community yet, so consensus hasn't built. That goes back to what you said about still being "too new".

That said - I think the time is right to move to a 939 platform with a 90nm CPU. Let PCIe get another generation or two of mobos under it's belt then move to a 939 PCIe board as a minor upgrade. By that time SLI may be more of a factor as well. Don't wait till the Better tech gets here, cause you'll wait forever. Better is the enemy of Good enough - and I think that 939 just got good enough :cool:


GizmoC said:
Just when I had pretty much ironed out my CPU/mobo choice, I start seeing people recommending s754 chipsets (with those DFI Lanparty boards) instead of s949s.

Back when s939 came out, benchmarks clearly showed that they perfomred better than s754.
And then I told myself, "ok, thats good. s939 3500+ it is".

And now.... people have suddenly started recommending s754s again? Whats up? Did you guys miss out on some details earlier? Are reviewers finding "bad things" about s939s now that they are widely used? Also, I've seen people raving about the DFI Lanparty board coupled with s754. Does this board have anything to do with people recommending s754 chips again? If so, then that board must be something special.... whats s special about it?

Also, maybe DFI is coming out with a s939 version of their board soon? I've waited for 3 years to upgrade from my 1ghz tbird. I can wait a lil longer.

Please, guide me.
Click to expand...
 
The peformance gain of dual channel (Socket 939) on a A64 processor is not as significant as expected. (A64's are not as memory limited as P4's are)

The DFI Lanparty Socket 754 motherboard is the best overclocking motherboard for A64 processors currently available. (Infact highly overclocked S 754 DFI based systems tend to show the best performance in games of any system currently available.)

Socket 754 cpu's are significantly cheaper than Socket 939 processors.

Add all those up, and you see why people are recommending S754 even though S939's are faster. (in general, esp when not overclocked)

see: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198

==>Lazn
Click to expand...

Couldn't have stated it better. s754 > s939
 
Little performance gain with Dual Channel memory and so far only two 939 CPU's each costing more then I'd ever consider paying for sex much less for a CPU. :rolleyes: Now if there were several 939's out there ranging from $120- "god only knows" then yes you'd have a valid point.
 
939 3000+ CPUs are under $200, you can get a 3500+ for $280 from Monarch now. AFAIK the Nforce4 PCIe boards will all be 939 too, at least to start with.

But hey, its your money, spend it how you wish :D
 
The argument of s754 being cheaper than s939 seems silly to me. With the new 90nm processors at the "low end", A s939 setup can be had for just a little more (if at all) than a s754.

To answer the thread starter's question, most people that are recomending s754 processors are doing so because either they don't know about the 90nm s939 parts at the lower end, are solely interesting in the overclocking ability of the s754 DFI board, or perhaps they have a s754 processor themselves and don't want to admit s939 is here to replace their processor.

Bottom line: My opinion is that you should go with a s939 processor if you are building a new rig/upgrading.
 
Something that's worth pointing out here is that the S939 mainboards suck. So as far as reliability goes, there's no argument when it comes to s754 vs s939. MSI is awesome... when it works. DFI just rocks any other motherboard out there for a64 currently, and since DFI said "no nf3 mobo", that's making me consider going s754 3400+ with 1mb cache and a DFI and just OC the hell out of it. I know next time I upgrade, I'll be getting a new mainbaord, processor, and graphics card, so the whole "you can upgrade the s939 further down the road than the s754" means nothing to me.

Anyone have the same mindset?
 
^
That's exactly how I feel. I just bought a Leadtek 6800 GT so I don't plan on upgrading video cards for 12-18 months. By that time I'll pretty much need DDR2, a new mobo, new video card, and a new processor. So there is no benefit in going Socket 939 for me because frankly, I'm not impressed with any of the 939 motherboards. I might as well go with a 754 chip with 1mb L2 cache and a DFI motherboard.
 
I too am looking to buy a 3000+/3200+ Athlon 64 in the near future, and have definitely taken interest in the latest round of 90nm chips. But I don't think it's fair to decide right now. I've yet to see any concrete benchmarks of how the 90nm chips perform. If you assume the chips are identical, then yes, socket 754 is probably a better choice. It is proven as a good overclocking position, and as far as the "get 939 so you can upgrade in the future" is pretty dumb, as it's likely you're going to want to get a new motherboard at that point anyway.

However, I want to see how a 90nm compares to a 130nm chip. Both at the same clock and in overclocking ability. Someone has to run a comparison at some point, and then I will make my decision. If the 90nm is substantially better, I will go with 939. If not, 754 is the way. I will not assume anything until then.
 
Summoner said:
939 3000+ CPUs are under $200, you can get a 3500+ for $280 from Monarch now. AFAIK the Nforce4 PCIe boards will all be 939 too, at least to start with.
Click to expand...


I can take a $175 cpu (3000+) and overclock it to 3800+ levels...now THAT'S a cheap, FAST cpu....add a good $80 mobo, some decent DDR and you got a killer cheap fast rig that is only 5% slower than an equivalent 939 rig for about...1/3 the cost.
 
Pixeleet said:
Something that's worth pointing out here is that the S939 mainboards suck. So as far as reliability goes, there's no argument when it comes to s754 vs s939. MSI is awesome... when it works. DFI just rocks any other motherboard out there for a64 currently, and since DFI said "no nf3 mobo", that's making me consider going s754 3400+ with 1mb cache and a DFI and just OC the hell out of it. I know next time I upgrade, I'll be getting a new mainbaord, processor, and graphics card, so the whole "you can upgrade the s939 further down the road than the s754" means nothing to me.

Anyone have the same mindset?
Click to expand...


*AGREES* I upgrade every 6 months or so, in 5-6 months, the current 939 rigs will be outdated already...so I saved a ton of cash and went S754, being that the speeds are sooooooo close...
 
im going to be looking for the 1meg L2 mobile 939 3000+ .... then pair it up with one of the lanparties or the upcoming nf4 stuff.....

very good stuff...
 
Not a good move IMO.

I'm not one to jump out and get the newest technology because frankly, that's exactly what it is: new. And sometimes that's a problem. Look at t-birds for example: the original t-birds sucked, but when they redid them, the turned out to be awesome chips. Same thing is evident here with s939 boards: the technology is new, but all the boards suck. I can't keep waiting for the latest and greatest to finally catch up, so I'm going to stick with some thing that has matured enough to where enough people are satisfied with the results that I feel secure about purchasing the product for myself.

DFI with 3400+ 1mb cache s754. All I need to decide on now is the power supply :)
 
Pixeleet said:
Not a good move IMO.

I'm not one to jump out and get the newest technology because frankly, that's exactly what it is: new. And sometimes that's a problem. Look at t-birds for example: the original t-birds sucked, but when they redid them, the turned out to be awesome chips. Same thing is evident here with s939 boards: the technology is new, but all the boards suck. I can't keep waiting for the latest and greatest to finally catch up, so I'm going to stick with some thing that has matured enough to where enough people are satisfied with the results that I feel secure about purchasing the product for myself.

DFI with 3400+ 1mb cache s754. All I need to decide on now is the power supply :)
Click to expand...

im sure the DFI 939 board will be nearly identical to the 754...

on top of that however, i think buying right now is a bad move...
 
p3 700 right now. this thing is starting to die under regular school work, let alone older games like diablo2. waiting is seriously not an option.
 
i completely understand your situation... upgrading now is a requirement for you. but for ppl like me, we have time to kick around. thats the majority i was sort of pointing at. :D

but if i were you bud, defientely the 939 3000+ and maybe the AV8 pro... lots of ppl have had luck with the KV8 pro... barring those who were unlucky enough to get one w/o functioning locks.

also just about any cooling solution from thermalright will do just fine.
 
guys, 1 more question

Will DFI be coming out with a s939 version of their mobo?
 
Yes, but it will be NF4. DFI is not going to release a s939 nf3 mainboard.
 
Something that's worth pointing out here is that the S939 mainboards suck. So as far as reliability goes, there's no argument when it comes to s754 vs s939. MSI is awesome... when it works. DFI just rocks any other motherboard out there for a64 currently, and since DFI said "no nf3 mobo", that's making me consider going s754 3400+ with 1mb cache and a DFI and just OC the hell out of it. I know next time I upgrade, I'll be getting a new mainbaord, processor, and graphics card, so the whole "you can upgrade the s939 further down the road than the s754" means nothing to me.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree as well. I'd rather have a mature motherboard that has most of the kinks worked out than using something that still hasn't mature and has problems/issues. Also I don't plan to upgrade from my current setup again for another year afterwards, which would mean I will need a new CPU/ RAM/ Mobo anyways...I'm thinking that AMD Dual Core Socket 900 "Toledo" 90nm 2MB L2 Cache with DDRII support will be looking mighty fine around next winter when it comes out or getting one sometime after that. :cool:
 
EternityZX9 said:
Yep, I agree as well. I'd rather have a mature motherboard that has most of the kinks worked out than using something that still hasn't mature and has problems/issues. Also I don't plan to upgrade from my current setup again for another year afterwards, which would mean I will need a new CPU/ RAM/ Mobo anyways...I'm thinking that AMD Dual Core Socket 900 "Toledo" 90nm 2MB L2 Cache with DDRII support will be looking mighty fine around next winter when it comes out or getting one sometime after that. :cool:
Click to expand...

man.. i dunno how the fuck you could logically upgrade from that...
 
GizmoC said:
slammer, thanks for replying. But, honestly man, I was expecting a more informed opinion.

I posted this on another forum

As you might've guessed, I am not in the loop of things here.

As I stated in the orignal post, why are people recommending the s754s over the s939s? The latter are clearly newer (and maybe better?) technology.... and with the new 90nm chips out, I dont understand why people are recommending the s754?

Dont get angry.. but, I am beginning to think that those who are recommending the s754 are the "ol timers who dont want to venture into technology... or just angry they cant have it... or just living in self-denail". Just a thought..
Click to expand...
754 imo is better for oc/depends on the cpu. I ran 3700 b/c basically it is fx53 939 minus dual mem. controller. With xtreme cooling I can reached 2900. Memory is my limitation. All of those 754 are the same 250 GB, the difference is the BIOS.
 
Looks like waiting for the NF4 boards and the 754 vs 939 roundups are the order of the day...
 
I love my stuff, and if you have the money go for it!
My system is as stable as my A7N8X dlx system ever was, even with overclocking.Waiting for new,stable and updated mainboards and systems may be the smart way to go but.........Where's your sense of adventure?
 
I question the same thing like the thread maker, because I am on a tight-budget and my P4 might be dead so I want to consider a 3000+ or 3200+. So it comes down to 90 or 130nm and what motherboard. Can anybody give me some reasons why which is better than the other?
 
Pixeleet said:
Something that's worth pointing out here is that the S939 mainboards suck. (snip)
Anyone have the same mindset?
Click to expand...

This is the exact reason why yesterday I picked up a DFI Lanparty UT and a A64 3000+

The motherboard is the x factor and without a good motherboard why bother. I can't wait 6 months for a decent 939!
 
J So said:
This is the exact reason why yesterday I picked up a DFI Lanparty UT and a A64 3000+

The motherboard is the x factor and without a good motherboard why bother. I can't wait 6 months for a decent 939!
Click to expand...

same here, I just got a dfi too. I think I will wait till 939 motherboards mature and some really nice ones come out. Sometimes it pays not to have the newest thing and wait alittle while till everyone else tests it out and compares it first.
 
9mmx19 said:
Looks like waiting for the NF4 boards and the 754 vs 939 roundups are the order of the day...
Click to expand...
and some good reviews on the 90nm a64's.. and how well the first stepping oc's.. hopefully we won't have to wait for a "DG" stepping or something before they can oc to like 3.5ghz :D :D
 
The s939 is immature yet. It will take another chipset+board generation to make it worth using. Chipsets are those chips on your motherboard, not your CPU btw :p
 
i know it has probably been said already.. but saying? " i will buy a 939 now because it is more future proof " is a bad reason.. in general i can't see a good reason to replace only a cpu or mobo.. usually the technology on both of them improves enough in 6 months or so that you will want to upgrade both anyways.. even if you do only upgrade one, then you will have an extra mobo or cpu to have to unload somehow..

so for the guy with the 700mhz p!!!.. i would say look into socket A, you can do the mobile xp, or even that $75 sempron 2500+ w mobo combo (see hot deals).. then get good ram that you can use later (unless ddrII is the standard by that time).. i would even say look into a celeron D.. .. all of those would be a huge step up from a 700 p!!!, and are all mature and still the most performance for the $$ right now.. but based on the fact that you are using a 700mhz computer... i wouldn't think that you would really need that a64... unless you just want to get it or want to game on it or something.. this is all what i think though, so you don't have to listen to me if you don't want to..
 
I sold my madly OC'ed 2500+ rig to a friend in need (health problems) and jumped back in time to this p3 700 rig. I'm usually an avid gamer, I just realized that he needed the computer more than I did.
 
I think we should work on some benchmarks to compare S754 to S939? Let's say, with 2x RAM on each, to include the dual channel issue, chips at equal cache/clock.
 
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