Silencing the Beast (PCP&C Turbo-Cool 510W)

E

EnderW

[H]F Junkie
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Sep 25, 2003
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So I just got my brand new PCP&C Turb-Cool 510W PCI-E and I noticed it has the Delta EFB0812EH fan which is notorious for being very loud. My current Turbo-Cool 425W uses a quieter Nidec fan and it's WAY too loud for me. The Delta is rated at 52CFM, which is a lot of air for a 80mm fan.

I did a little searching over at SilentPCReview and found this thread which has a lot of good information.
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=17157&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

After looking at a lot of different options, tibetan mod king, decides to go with 2 80mm fans in a push pull setup, which sounds similiar to the mod found here.
http://www.leesspace.com/quiet_psu.htm

However, the part that has me confused is here:
It seems the PC Power 510 greatly benefits from having cool air dumped right on the internal heatsink. I am now running a mod that uses a 26 CFM 80mm Papst fan to blow air into the PC Power 510. The fan is externally mounted, so it also picks up major flow improvements from not being jammed up against the internal components of the PSU.

Temperature readings are *lower* than 40CFM of "pull through" air with the 40 CFM fan jammed up against the components. This is evidence that the PC Power 510 would greatly benefit from a lengthened case so that cooling fans could be positioned far enough away from components for maximal cooling efficiency.

Note -- I am taking these readings with my case door off. To make this mod work with an enclosed case, some sort of blowhole fan would be needed to exhaust the warm air coming in from the PSU. Also it is very critical to use rubber mounting grommets with the external fan mod. Even better would be a full rubber surround that could easily be cut out of a piece of rubber. Perhaps even a silicone fan dampener may work well.
Click to expand...

This makes it sound like he has switched the airflow path and it bring in cold air through the back of the PSU :confused:



I don't think cutting a hole in the back of it like this guy does will work that well on mine because the power cords don't come out in the corner like his, they come out in the middle.

IMG_0019.JPG



So I've got a couple of other ideas.

1) I could try to zip-tie a fan to the outside grill
2) Reverse the blowhole fan on my Lian Li PC65B so it is an intake fan and build a "duct" to force the cold air to the PSU and to keep hot air inside the case away from it.

psuplan3.jpg




This is really what I'm leaning towards, because I think it will be the quietest, easiest, and best for the PSU since the entire back will be getting a continuous stream of cold air. Also, I'm going to use a low speed, 120mm fan to keep the noise down. Plus, this requires no serious modding of the PSU itself, just a simple fan swap.

IWhat do you guys think?
 
I knew your thread title sounded familiar! :)

Unfortunately, I didn't like the idea of ducting. However, the idea of a 2nd fan in a "push/pull" config seems like the best way to keep the same CFM but making it much quieter. But, in order to do that you'd have to mount the fan where the grill is, & I haven't thought of a way to make screw holes in the grill. It also seems very hard to find decent 80mm fans to replace the stock but keep the dBA low. What are the "AFB0812M's"?

For the last few months, I've been whispering to myself "Riddles...riddles in the dark...."

It seems we are both in the same conundrum, my friend!
 
Is it possible to put a 92mm Fan in the back instead of a 80mm fan? Also, is it possible to connect the fan internally, instead of plugging it externally into one of the molex's? hmm :confused:
 
You could drill a 120mm fan hole in the top of the PSU cover, like the OCZ Modstream (or, the bottom, whichever is not against the case) & mount a 120mm fan externally to blow air into the PSU & then the 80mm would have less work to do but would allow the air to go the direction you want; outside the case instead of out the grill (going backwards), if you know what I mean.
hmmmmmm :confused:

seriously, there are no easy answers.......
 
I think we could still cut a hole in the back, it would just have to be more near the side than that one dude where his was in the center of the back. But still, having a grill in the back makes things more difficult.
hmmmmm :confused:
 
I was just recently thinking that maybe, just maybe, it'd be easier to mod the new PCP&C 850W PSU instead, just because it has more PSU enclosure area to work with (you could put more/bigger fans on it). That thing is huge!
 
This has been on my mind for months now, & I still haven't found the answer. :(
 
I solved the noise problem in a different way. It's a bit strange but it works very well; low noise, cool powersupply.

Step one; get two PCP&C Silencer fans, or, any quiet fan of your choice. I use the Silencers.

Step two; replace the top cover with one from a PS that has a bottom opening. What I did was to take the top cover off of an Antec Neo 480 PS that I had sitting around, removed the 120mm fan, and screwed the top onto the T-C 510. The screw holes line up perfectly.

Step three; flip the PS in the case so that the opening is up rather than down. My case has a backplate that the PS screws into that allows me to do this. Most can skip this step, I did it to solve a fit problem.

Step four; replace the delta fan with one of the two quiet fans

Step five; simply lay the second silent fan over the opening.

The result is that you get a push-pull configuration. The top fan blows air downward into the PS while the other fan pulls it across the heatsinks. Like I said quiet and cool even under load. It took me a whole fifteen minutes to do this.

Lastly, I'm a big fan of the PCP&C Silencer fans. They are very low noise fans, lower than anything else I've tried, and I've tried many. They don't push/pull a lot of air but you can use many to make up for the low rate. The nice part is that the noise is not additive; three fans make hardly more noise than one.
 
I guess this makes us a trio. I have the same issue as well and I have the Lian Li PC65 B as well.

First I want to apoligize I am at work on a 128mb of ram and P3 350 ghz machine so no Photoshop here. Trying to use MS Paint, BAH !!!

psuplan-edit.jpg



I understand it will be hard to put a fan on with the wires comming out of the middle at the rear of the PSU. However, It can be done without destroying the enclosure and will be better in the long run incase you may need to return :rolleyes:

I've used zip ties and double sided tape for rigging on some fans before and it works great, I really dont see why this wouldnt work.

ANyways, reverse the fans and you have the Cold air comming into the PSU and exiting the rear right by the exaust fan at the top of the case. Hot air rises so the Duct would perform better and shoot strait out the top!

There is also lots of room along the top of the case starting from the top 2 drive bays all the way back to the PSU. You could run a sheet of cardboard with some holes in it for the wires to pass through to your mobo and HD's and such that way you dont have to have a diagonal duct. It'll force the hot air out of the top and keep the rest of your case still cool.

What do you fellas think?

EDIT

Just thought of something that wouldn't help. The exaust fan below the PSU close to the CPU. That will be blowing out Hot air and rise directly above the PSU which would be sucking air back in.

So if we try this experiment. we'd have to make that fan near the CPU to suck in as well and the 2 fans at the front of the case by the HD's to blow out.

Damn so we gotta put on air filters and disregaurd the stock ones.

I might try this out this weekend. Only thing is I don't have anything to test the temps inside the PSU. I would assume if the temps rise then the voltages will drop a bit lower in the rails? How could I find out if this plan would work or not?

I bet IceCzar himself couldn't have thought of a better idea then us :p
 
MaMMa said:
First I want to apoligize I am at work on a 128mb of ram and P3 350 ghz machine so no Photoshop here. Trying to use MS Paint, BAH !!!
Click to expand...
Hey what do you think I used? No excuses. ;)



MaMMa said:
Just thought of something that wouldn't help. The exaust fan below the PSU close to the CPU. That will be blowing out Hot air and rise directly above the PSU which would be sucking air back in.
Click to expand...
Yeah that was my first idea, but it quickly got ruled out because of the heat coming out the back.



MaMMa said:
I might try this out this weekend. Only thing is I don't have anything to test the temps inside the PSU. I would assume if the temps rise then the voltages will drop a bit lower in the rails? How could I find out if this plan would work or not?
Click to expand...
Well the only way I have of measuring temps is MBM5.



I really like my duct idea. It should be very simple to just find a piece of cardboard and tape it in place. And yes it is ghetto, but no one can see it from the outside.

I was planning to get one of the new V1100 cases, but the PSU compartment has limited airflow, so I don't think it would be a good match for this PSU.

Also, I e-mailed PCP&C with a link to this thread and asked for their advice - will let you know what they say.
 
I'm never gonna get a new case, I love my pc65.

You said you ruled out my idea, your original, but if we reverse all the fans so all cool air comes from the back and hot air comes out the front and the top it should be ok wouldn't it?

My situation would be ok because the rear is not sitting agaist any walls or near hot air.

Oh yea, I tried using MBM5 for this board and it in the list of mobo's I couldnt find neo2s :confused:
 
MaMMa said:
I'm never gonna get a new case, I love my pc65.

You said you ruled out my idea, your original, but if we reverse all the fans so all cool air comes from the back and hot air comes out the front and the top it should be ok wouldn't it?

My situation would be ok because the rear is not sitting agaist any walls or near hot air.

Oh yea, I tried using MBM5 for this board and it in the list of mobo's I couldnt find neo2s :confused:
Click to expand...

Well I've been thinking about it and I think it might work. However, I'd need to reverse my CPU fan as well, so it could suck in some of the cold air coming in through the back fan. It sounds like it might work, but I don't really want hot air coming out of the font of my case. I'm also a little leary about reversing the direction of air going through the PSU, since if they built any kinda of aerodynamics into the design, we would be working against them.

The duct idea still seams the best to me - requires the least amount of work (big pro :D) and keeps the airflow path the same.

Also, I'm trading my PC-65B in for the new PC-7 Plus, which has single 120mm intake and exhaust fans.

After looking at the V1100 design, I really don't see any good solutions. I think reversing the airflow would be about your only option.
 
Very intresting post...have you considered sound deadning material for your cases....using Panaflo h1a's.....or just going to a nice Lian-Li BTX case which pretty much fully addresses all your issues.
 
twajetmech said:
Very intresting post...have you considered sound deadning material for your cases....using Panaflo h1a's.....or just going to a nice Lian-Li BTX case which pretty much fully addresses all your issues.
Click to expand...


I'm using some sound dampening stuff all over my case already. I stuck a piece of paper in the PSU fan and i thought my PC shut off. Things dead silent without that PSU fan.

EnderW:

Could you clear up my question about MBM5?

I'm gonna look into this PC-7 your talking about.

EDIT

Just looked at the PC-7, it says nothing of 120mm, is this case your trading for Modded?
 
twajetmech said:
Very intresting post...have you considered sound deadning material for your cases....using Panaflo h1a's.....or just going to a nice Lian-Li BTX case which pretty much fully addresses all your issues.
Click to expand...

The Panaflo H1A is not a signifcant reduction in sound.

Lian Li doesn't have any BTX models that I'm aware of, but I'll assume you're referring to the V1000/V2000 series, which have a modified ATX form. If so, please share how you think these will "fully addresses all our issues," since from what I've seen, they are less suitable then the PC-6X series for getting cold air to the PSU.
 
MaMMa said:
I'm using some sound dampening stuff all over my case already. I stuck a piece of paper in the PSU fan and i thought my PC shut off. Things dead silent without that PSU fan.

EnderW:

Could you clear up my question about MBM5?

I'm gonna look into this PC-7 your talking about
Click to expand...

I thought about that, but I was worried it might screw something up.

I know most newer boards aren't built into MBM5 since they stopped updating it sometime ago. You might see if there is a MSI forum and if so, how they are measuring their temps.

I started a thread about the two different versions of the PC-7 that I've found.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=865773&highlight=pc-7
 
:drool:

Wow that thing is sexy. I think I might have found a replacement, only thing is no removable mobo tray :( The HDD space is not that big of an issue.
 
MaMMa said:
:drool:

Wow that thing is sexy. I think I might have found a replacement, only thing is no removable mobo tray :( The HDD space is not that big of an issue.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but getting rid of the MB tray is how they were able to fit the 120mm fan in there.
I plan on taking the drive cage from my PC-65 and swapping it out with that crappy thing. I need the space since I'm planning a RAID5 array.
 
I think the easiest way to get a 120mm on the PSU is to get a after-market PSU cover:

Like this, but w/ 120mm instead

But where would you plug it into? I'm not a fan of plugging it externally. Does the 510 have internal 3-pin plugs?
 
Karma said:
Does the 510 have internal 3-pin plugs?
Click to expand...

I need an answer to this as well. It would work really well when using a 120mm external fan on it via the PSU mod cover that karma wasn't able to find.
 
Those are both really good ideas however, if the components inside are all in the way it wouldnt. Have anyone of you guys taken a look to see if it'll work with out too much blockage?
 
MaMMa said:
Those are both really good ideas however, if the components inside are all in the way it wouldnt. Have anyone of you guys taken a look to see if it'll work with out too much blockage?
Click to expand...

TurboCool510.jpg


Looks to me like the heatsink has enough facing skyward that air coming from above would be enough to keep it happy. I already figured that unless someone starts making thin 120mm fans, the fan would already have to sit outside the PSU cover.
 
MeanieMan said:
TurboCool510.jpg


Looks to me like the heatsink has enough facing skyward that air coming from above would be enough to keep it happy. I already figured that unless someone starts making thin 120mm fans, the fan would already have to sit outside the PSU cover.
Click to expand...

God I feel stupid. I've seen that pic so many times.

ANyways, It doesn't look like enuf leeway for air to even start flowing. The heatsinks are too tall.

This is going to be a hard task
 
Welcome to my world.

Anywho, I assumed that the 120mm fan would have to sit outside the cover anyway, just from all of the stuff crammed into the 510. You could wire the 80mm & the 120mm together, if there isn't a separate connector.

BTW, the OCZ Modstream actually has three 2-pin connectors internally, only 1 of which is actually used. If the Modstream had tighter rails & higher output I'd jump all over it.

If this was in the 510, I'd be a happy camper.
 
plan.JPG




This is going to by my plan:

1. Get some 20'' SATA cables, run it though to the back of my case and have it sitting somewhere on the side of my case on the floor ( HD's, i.e. Raptors, emits much heat )

2. replace the stock PCP&C fan still blowing OUT

3. zip tie another 80mm to the rear of the psu

4. put 2 80mm silenX fans where the 2 top CD rom drive bays are with filter

5. Make the duct like the picture I have above forcing cool air from the front strait to the PSU. Its like 4 fans going strait to the PSU!!!

6. turn the exaust fan to blow down to the case towards the duct and flow with air from the CD bay fans towards PSU. GENIUS!

7. Get a Lian Li BS-01 Fan to help get hot air from CPU and GPU out.

8. Got NV5 silencer already too

The end

Its gonna be a pain re hiding all the wires. I did such a good job . :(


god damn ball mouse and MS Paint
 
Good luck guys. I still like my plan the best. I'm gonna order the PC-7 soon, and I'll update when I have everything in.
 
How do you like my drawing?

Anyways, 2 front fans at the top 2 drive bay with a duct forcing air into the PSU sounds great but i just thought, thats where I hide all my extra wires. BAH.

May have to just zip tie them up nice and neat, I think it'll work great.

Keep us updated with your mod :)
 
MaMMa said:
How do you like my drawing?

Anyways, 2 front fans at the top 2 drive bay with a duct forcing air into the PSU sounds great but i just thought, thats where I hide all my extra wires. BAH.

May have to just zip tie them up nice and neat, I think it'll work great.

Keep us updated with your mod :)
Click to expand...

Well I think as far as keeping the PSU cool, your plan will probably work a little better then mine. But you're using 3 more fans and losing the entire front section of your case. :(
 
EnderW said:
Well I think as far as keeping the PSU cool, your plan will probably work a little better then mine. But you're using 3 more fans and losing the entire front section of your case. :(
Click to expand...

Thats a sacrifice I'm willing to take. I have a dvd rom and a DVD burner on the bottom 2, no need for anything else there. I think the trade of is perfect.

I just gotta find a way to make it look presentable
 
MaMMa said:
Thats a sacrifice I'm willing to take. I have a dvd rom and a DVD burner on the bottom 2, no need for anything else there. I think the trade of is perfect.

I just gotta find a way to make it look presentable
Click to expand...
Did I read that right? You're taking the hard drives OUT of the case?
 
EnderW said:
Did I read that right? You're taking the hard drives OUT of the case?
Click to expand...


O yea, I'm taking the HD's out cuz they emit a lot of heat, especially the raptor. If there outside the case then inside the case it would be cooler :)
 
MaMMa said:
O yea, I'm taking the HD's out cuz they emit a lot of heat, especially the raptor. If there outside the case then inside the case it would be cooler :)
Click to expand...
That's a little bit extreme, don't you think? If you go with your current design, I can't imagine them having much effect on the PSU.
 
Yea it is extreme but I'm from [H]ouston and its really hot here. On top of that my MaMMa doesn't allow the AC on during the summer. She's crazy and cheap and I'm too poor to pay the A/C bill atm. So I must do what is necessary to keep my pc cool ;)
 
MaMMa said:
Yea it is extreme but I'm from [H]ouston and its really hot here. On top of that my MaMMa doesn't allow the AC on during the summer. She's crazy and cheap and I'm too poor to pay the A/C bill atm. So I must do what is necessary to keep my pc cool ;)
Click to expand...
Even so, I don't think the heat from the hard drives would be able to get to your PSU with the duct in place. And the Raptor isn't hotter then any other drive.
 
I was more worried about when I OC. The cpu itself is what I wanna keep cool, I believe the PSU will be fine ;)
 
MaMMa said:
I was more worried about when I OC. The cpu itself is what I wanna keep cool, I believe the PSU will be fine ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, well that makes more sense. I still don't think the hard drives are going to put out enough heat to make much of a difference.

What kind of HSF or you using?
 
xp 90, any bit will help. I"ll test the temps with and without to see whats better. I do know for a fact that when I lay the case on its side instead of standing strait with the side panel off, my CPU runs cooler. The heat rises strait up and out. When its standing it collects even with the exuast up top
 
I think I'm gonna go ahead and get H20. Only for the CPU, so I'm hoping a single 120mm radiator will be enough. Not sure if there will be enough room in the top of the case or not - may have to consider putting it on the back panel, or using a 80mm or 92mm fan in the blow hole instead of the 120mm.
 
Mine isnt loud at all. When I had my Mach II installed, every single time I started a game, it kicked into high gear. Then whenever I left the game, it went back to low gear. However, when I setup a watercooled system, it never kicked into high gear. Same goes for my current setup, all air.

Its odd to me that it would kick into high gear on a Mach II system, and not any other I have built. It was very loud when it was in high gear though, I seriously thought about changing the fan. Currently, its very quiet in my system.
 
I'm gonna start the mod in about an hour. Can't stand the noise anymore. I'll take pics of the process, wish me luck!
 
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