The "Parts for my New PC" MegaThread!

Epicenter

Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
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I wrote this thread to answer some very common questions here on HardForum, "What do I put in my PC", "Is this a good build", and how do I get the best deal?

I'll be recommending an AMD-based system in this thread due mostly to upgradability-- Socket 939 allows for unparalelled expandability with the option to upgrade to an FX-series or a Dual-Core processor later this year, and support for SLI, and the only available chipset with an integrated hardware firewall, et cetera. Intel motherboards will need to be replaced with ones supporting a new chipset to use a Dual-Core CPU, and current tests show AMD's dual-core offerings best Intel's in almost every category either way. The current Athlon 64 CPUs are also faster in most tasks than their Intel counterparts, run cooler, cost less and use less power. If you are among the Intel faithful and would like to protest this, please don't do it here, as I will update this thread recommending an Intel chip and such-based system if it becomes the best deal in the future. I appreciate your understanding.

That said, let's get on with the guide, shall we? :)

I've divided this into two parts. First off, a step by step breakdown of picking the parts on your own. The second part is a list of 'scenario' PCs for various uses and price ranges and the parts I'd recommend go into them.

STEP ONE: BUILD OR BUY?
Most users here, I think, will be more interested in the idea of building their own machine from scratch. This gives you more control over how it goes together, and to a degree, more control as to what to do if you want to upgrade later if something goes wrong. You'll usually pay a decent bit less by this route and learn
a lot, too.

If you do choose not to build your PC, try to find a cheap local shop that will
assemble the machine for you from the exact parts you pick, or go to my favorite custom builder site, http://www.monarchcomputer.com .. who will let you configure the exact parts you need with some extremely reasonable prices.

STEP TWO: Picking a Motherboard

The board you pick is going to be the heart of your machine. It will specify what
type of CPU you can use at what speed, what RAM you must use, what type of video
and expansion cards you can install, what variety of hard disk you can install and
how many, and what kind of case you can use, among other factors. So it's important
to pick the right one.

At this point in time, for the best balance of cost to performance and for the longest
and most fulfilling upgrade path, a board supporting Socket 939 is the most advisable. These boards can be broken down into a few categories beyond that, but the most important are Chipset and supporting features like SATA, FireWire, RAID. You must, of course, pick which boards have the exact featureset you desire. For your chipset, the nForce 3 and 4 will provide the most stability, speed and have a spotless track record, so they are usually your best choice unless you are on a very, very strict budget.

The two varieties' most crucial difference, since features like SATA, FireWire, RAID, audio subsystem types, et cetera are vary across the board (no pun intended) on both, is the expansion slots provided. nForce 3 based boards will provide AGP and nForce 4 boards will provide PCI-Express, and neither will provide the other. If you are buying a new video card, you will want to get a PCI-Express version and nForce 4, as most performance cards built after the present series will be for PCI-Express (and probably not have an AGP version.) If you have an AGP card already and don't want to replace it, you'll want to go with AGP, but bear in mind you'll likely need to replace your board to replace your video card later.

There are also 3 types of nForce 4. Standard nForce 4 is best passed over. nForce 4 Ultra provides more bandwidth and speed to components and a richer featureset. nForce 4 SLI, is just like nForce 4 but provides *2* PCI-Express x16 slots, which, if filled with identical SLI capable nVidia cards (like 6600GTs and 6800GTs) will let you run the cards in tandem for a very significant performance boost. You can also use this type of board as a more open-ended upgrade path, where you can install 1 6800GT now and another later when prices are down (it is not presently advisable to opt for 2 6600GTs, as the performance is below 1 6800GT in most tests with the present nVidia driver SLI implementation. This may change, and probably will.)

QUALITY NFORCE3 939 BOARDS:
- Gigabyte K8NS Ultra-939
- MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum

QUALITY NFORCE4 939 BOARDS:
- DFI NF4 Ultra-D
- DFI NF4 SLI-D
- Gigabyte GA-K8NF-9
- Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9
- GIGABYTE GA-K8NXP-SLI
- MSI N8N Neo4-F (or so I hear. I wouldn't buy an MSI board again, myself. Too many bad experiences.)
- MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
- MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI



Once you've decided which variety of board you're going with, a lot of your other choices will become quite easy (hopefully).

STEP THREE: Picking a Processor

Right now, your real choices are the Athlon 64 and the Athlon 64 FX for Socket 939. The Athlon 64s are the normal CPU lineup, and the 64 FX's are the ultra high end. Needless to say, the FX series processors are faster. However, this is not to say that they are always the best buy. For most users, it is more advisable to go with a 3000+ or 3200+ even for a heavy duty gaming or heavy-lifting system, for the simple fact that price and performance are not entirely proportional. A ~$900 FX-55 costs SIX TIMES more than a ~$150 3000+, but the gain to be had from moving from a 3000+ to an FX-55 is closer to 15% than it is to 600%.
A 3000+ or 3200+ is able to sustain amazing framerates in all of today's games, even the most physics heavy ones like Half-Life 2; perform competitively in tasks like video/audio playback, compiling, encoding, rendering, et cetera. Overclocking can also bring you
into FX territory performancewise for $0 spent except for cooling apparatus, which aren't required to be extravagant at all for most Athlon 64 overclocks.

A second reason to opt for a CPU that isn't extraordinarily top of the line now, is that should you want to sell your CPU and switch to one of AMD's Dual Core Athlon 64 X2's later this year, they will drop into most existing Socket 939 boards with no other parts requiring replacement. Should you go this route, you can sell your CPU for close to its original purchase value, while chips from the FX series are already at a higher price point and likely to plummet in resale value much quicker when the time comes to upgrade. On a side note, FX series processors also run hotter and consume far more power than non-FX models.

When making the choice of what core to opt for, you'll mostly have to decide between Winchester and Venice. Venice only recently became available and is tricky to find, but should you get one, you won't pay much more, yet you'll get slightly higher performance, SSE3 support and probably more importantly-- SUPREME overclockability. Initial tests have shown these cores capable of several hundred MHz overclocks on stock cooling and voltage, meaning you can attain FX-series performance for only around $150. These are impressive savings you can easily pass on by investing in other more powerful omponents or just pocket. A Winchester core will run the tiniest bit cooler and require a bit less power, but these decreases in power/heat are not really enough to warrant the loss of clock scalability Venice offers, unless you are in a rush to get your CPU ASAP and don't intend to do any overclocking.

STEP FOUR: Picking Memory/RAM

RAM is an important part of your build selection, as picking shoddy RAM can mean your system is extraordinarily unstable. Now, this does not mean that you need to purchase any sort of 'Performance' RAM with a name like 'XMS', 'Ballistix', 'HyperX', 'Low Latency', et cetera. It simply means you should buy from a company with a reputation for producing good quality RAM. For an Athlon 64 based system, you will need DDR400/PC3200 RAM, make sure not to confuse this for DDR2, as it is not compatible. It's advisable to purchase Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM for the most ensured reliability at an extremely economical price point.

A common misconception is that to overclock the CPU, RAM clocked higher than 400 MHz (DDR400/PC320) is required-- it is NOT NECESSARY to purchase RAM rated for clocks higher than 400 MHz, as when overclocking on the A64 platform, you are able to reduce the RAM clock divisor to keep the RAM from running past its rated spec, even if the CPU is overclocked. Running the CPU host clock overclocked and the RAM synchronous to it does provide a small performance gain, but it is usually not worth the extra cost investment and is generally overshadowed by any significant CPU overclock.

Another myth is that low latency memory has a strong impact on system performance, or allows improved overclocking. Latency tightening actually only causes miniscule performance gains measured well under 5%, usually only detectable in sensitive synthetic benchmarks. These gains are usually achieved by purchasing RAM that is 200% or more of the cost of value-priced RAM which is every bit as reliable and almost exactly as quick despite looser timings. RAM Latencies are also entirely unrelated to CPU overclocking and will have entirely no impact on the clocks you can attain in that realm. The same goes for the price bracket of the RAM, 'HyperX' or 'Performance Series' etc. RAM will not affect your system's overclockability.

RAM should be installed in identicial pairs for Dual Channel support, which dramatically increases CPU to RAM bandwidth and speed and can provide a significant speed boost. It is not necessary, and not advisable, to purchase RAM in "Dual Channel Kits". You can just as easily buy 2 identical sticks when you purchase your RAM, and you'll save money for it. There is no benefit to a kit.

STEP FIVE: Picking a Video Card

If you're a gamer, this is going to be a very important step for you. The first obvious choice is, nVidia or ATi? Neither company has a real inherent advantage, so this issue will come down to upgradability, features, and perhaps brand loyalty on your part.

In the budget bracket, the nVidia 6600GT is unrivaled for cost-to-performance. For about $175, you can have a card that will perform exceptionally well in any modern game, at around 1024x768 with 4x Antialiasing, 8x Anisotropic Filtering; or 1600x1200 at 2xAA, 8xAF, et cetera. They also support all modern standards such as Pixel Shader 3.0 and DirectX 9 Support.

For about $100 more, the ATi X800XL is a highly recommendable card, as it performs about on par with a 6800 GT for significantly mess money. The 6800 Ultra and X850XT are usually not terribly advisable due to their extremely high prices, and very small gains compared to the FAR cheaper models below them.

Now a critical decision, SLI or otherwise? With nVidia's SLI technology, you can use 2 identical nVidia video cards that support it (e.g. 6600GT, 6800GT) work in tandem for higher performance. This can attain the highest performance on the market by combining 6800GTs or 6800 Ultras, but it will come at quite a cost. Since modern games do not truly push the limits of midrange cards like the 6800GT, the more recommendable option to buying 2 cards outright is to buy one 6800GT now, and one identical 6800GT later, when prices have fallen, thus saving money compared to buying a card from the next generation (Which we'll probably see in 2006.) No SLI support exists for any ATi cards yet, but if that changes in the near future remains to be seen (it probably will, but not too soon.)

STEP SIX: Picking Drives

The first thing to consider is your hard drives. Parallel ATA or Serial ATA? Size? Brand? Speed?

Serial ATA disks are not inherently faster (as the mechanics in the disks are the true bottleneck and not the bus they are on.) But SATA's NCQ support can increase your disk performance. The cables are also thinner and restrict airflow in the case much less than Parallel rounded cables or ribbons. There are some downsides to SATA, though. SATA will more often than not complicate a Windows XP installation by requiring a floppy be used to install the SATA controller driver, unless it's slipstreamed into the install disc. The cost is also a bit higher. If these are not issues for you, Serial ATA disks are just fine. Otherwise, you should probably opt for PATA. Bear in mind you can always use a Parallel ATA disk for your OS and Serial for additional disks, it's fine to mix and match. It should go without saying that to use Serial ATA drives, you must have a Serial ATA controller (most boards come with one integrated onto them these days. But check on it before you buy.)

The next issue is speeds. Most disks are 7200 RPM, this is the rotational speed of the platters inside the disk. The exception is the Western Digital Raptors, which spin at 10,000 RPM. While it is usually the instinct of someone building a high-end system to opt for these disks, it's not truly the ideal choice. For the price of one Raptor, one can get nearly 400 GB of storage from cheaper disks that are nearly as fast, and almost
entirely silent, that also emit less heat. Raptors have an unfortunate tendency to emit an irritating whining noise, and some obnoxiously loud head chatter. If you're not very sensitive to PC noise, have a good means of keeping the disk cool and plenty of money to spend on a small performance gain, you can go with Raptors, but I highly recommend 7200 RPM disks.

When selecting a 7200 RPM disk you should ideally opt for smaller disks rather than one large one. The cold hard truth is that hard disks are just one big moving part (with a few nonmoving parts tacked on) and they can, and do, fail. Smaller disks hold less data and when one of them inevitably goes (god forbid) you won't lose anywhere near as much with say, one 160 GB disk as one 400 GB one. Buy them based on the best warranty, if you can.

When it comes to brand, the best choices are usually Seagate 7200.7 or 7200.8 series disk or a Samsung Spinpoint, as they provide low cost, high speed and reliability, a great track record, and extremely low noise, almost to the point of being entirely inaudible (under a couple case fans, they ARE entirely inaudible.)

Now, Optical drives. Buy based on what you need to read, write, and burn, and be sure to get a good brand to ensure reliability. The brands I'd most recommend are NEC and Lite-On, though Plextor drives are also quite nice. One of the best deals on the market is the NEC 3250A series, which support DVD+R, -R, +/-RW, and are capable of Double layer burning. They come in a variety of colors and sell for about $50 making them very, very affordable. They are also almost entirely silent even under operation at full speed.

It's never a bad idea to add a second drive just for reading DVD's and CD's for on-the-fly duplication, but don't waste extra money buying a second burner if you can possibly avoid it.

STEP SEVEN: Picking a Power Supply

Power supplies are extremely important. Using a shoddy one can mean anywhere from system instability to total failure and damage to your hardware. So it's vital you pick the right one for your needs. This doesn't mean to exaggerate your needs and spend far more than you should on a supply that's delivering 3x more juice than your machine can soak up, so do read on and make sure to get a good deal.

The most important thing about buying a power supply is that Wattage is a myth. Power supplies these days supply so much amperage to devices on the 5v and 3.3v rail that the more that's added in each manufacturer's newest models is irrelevant, no matter how much it raises the average wattage of the 3.3v, 5v and 12v rails together. What truly matters is how much juice is supplied, in Amperes, on the 12v rail.

You can add this up using the excellent charts on this page:
http://www.shsc.info/powersupplyguide

... which also contains a more verbose explanation of what I am briefly summarizing here. Add up the total amperage of the components that will go into your system, and leave a little extra headroom for future upgrades, and pick your supply accordingly. Pick it from a brand name you know can be trusted-- one that won't make up phony ratings (like 700W for $40), will give you a supply that won't die and possibly fry your whole system, and one that won't make your PC sound like a jet engine.

A short list of brands that are ideal:
Antec, Enermax, Fortron, SeaSonic, PC Power+Cooling, Tagan.

A list of supplies to avoid:
Deer, Eagle, Sky Hawk, about anything with an animal in it, AND AVOID ANYTHING THAT COMES WITH A NON-ANTEC CASE. THIS CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH.

A great deal can be had by purchasng one of Antec's mini-tower cases like the Antec Sonata with a True380 supply, which is enough to run almost any modern machine that isn't really pushing any absurd power requirements. Your standard PC with say, an Athlon 64 3200+, a 6800GT, 1 or 2 hard disks and an optical drive will not even come close to maxing out the supply included with the case (read the next section for more on that topic) and it's a great overall value.

STEP EIGHT: Picking a Case

The kind of case you pick is going to depend largely on what you need to fit in it, and what kind of size, shape and appearance matches your personality and environments, of course. However, there are some guidelines to follow.

Don't skimp on it and buy something for $30 with a window and 15 fan cutouts in it, odds are it's shoddily built and is going to come to bits shortly after purchase. But don't go spending >$100 unless you really have money to throw into holes, or are very fanatical about your system's appearance. I'm not going to try and tell you what you like and don't, just remember to not go overboard and remember that excess money spent on superfluous aluminum cases is money possibly better spent on beefier internals instead.

Remember that having loads of 80mm fans will generate an irritating whiny sound, and produce less real airflow than 120mm fans, which generate far less air turbulance. Well placed 120mm's will be very, very quiet, and if you stick a fan controller on them and tone them down a notch, you can find a good equillibrium between heat and quiet that can put your system at fantastically low, possibly even near-inaudible, levels.

Antec offers one particular deal I will bring up, Antec Sonata cases which are small, managable Mini-Towers which come in black, fit standard ATX form factor motherboards, and include a very powerful 380W power supply (read the above section) and a quiet 120mm fan in the rear that is enough to cool the whole system with no intake fan in most cases. It's solidly built, fits plenty of drives and is quite a deal given the included bonuses and features. Just a suggestion, pick the case you like an run with it.

STEP NINE: Picking Audio

You may be wondering why this is way the hell at the end. It's at the end because I'm not an audio fanatic, and I'm the wrong person to talk to about any kind of enthusiast audio. That said, I listen to tons of music and play tons of games, and good audio quality is important to me. I've never been done wrong by nForce 2, 3 or 4's onboard AC97 codec audio, and modern boards with chipsets like nF3 and 4 now supply things like 5.1 output support and optical audio. So if you aren't fanatical (like me), this may be a very good, economical choice for you. I'm not going to take the risk of steering you wrong with an expansion card, so you can let someone else advise you in that realm.
 
-- PART 2: SCENARIO MACHINES --

Extreme Budget Machine (General, Office work, Web Surfing, Little to no gaming) [Cost: ~$330]

- Motherboard: Biostar M7NCD Ultra 400 (Socket A)
- CPU: Sempron 2300+ (Socket A)
- RAM: 2 x 256 MB Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM DDR333/PC2700
- Video: Chaintech GeForce 4 MX4000 64mb (AGP)
- Storage: Western Digital Caviar WD200BB 20GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive (Parallel ATA / EIDE)
- Optical: LG GDR-8163B DVD-ROM Drive
- Case: Antec Solution SLK1650B Case w/ 350W Antec SmartPower PSU
- Power Supply: Included with Case

NOTES: Not very expandable except to 3200+ Athlon XP and AGP video cards. If future upgrades are planned, it's recommendable to switch to the configuration for "General Machine" below.

- - -

Major Budget Machine (Office, Web Surfing, Light Multimedia/Content Creation, Little to No gaming) [Cost: ~$515]

- Motherboard: Chaintech VNF3-250 (Socket 754)
- CPU: Athlon 64 2800+ (Socket 754)
- RAM: 1 x 512 MB Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200
- Video: Chaintech GeForce 4 MX4000 64mb (AGP)
- Storage: Seagate 7200.7 160 GB Hard Disk (Parallel ATA / EIDE)
- Optical: NEC 3250A DVD+/-RW Drive
- Case: Antec Sonata w/ 380W Antec True Power Supply
- Power Supply: Included with Sonata

NOTES: Not very expandable except to 754 CPUs and AGP video cards. If future upgrades are planned, it's recommendable to switch to the configuration for "General Machine" below and drop the 6600GT. Switch for, say, an FX5700, 9600XT, 9700 or 9800 or other last-generation card.

- - -

General Machine (General, Gaming, Web surfing, Multimedia/Content Creation). [ Cost: $600-$800 ]

- Motherboard: Chaintech VNF4/Ultra (Socket 939)
- CPU: Athlon 64 3000+ (Socket 939) Winchester or Venice
- RAM: 2 x 512 MB Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200
- Video: eVGA 6600GT PCI-Express
- Storage: Seagate 7200.7 160 GB Hard Disk (PATA or SATA)
- Optical: NEC 3250A DVD+/-RW Drive
- Case: Antec Sonata
- Power Supply: Sonata's TruePower 380W Supply

NOTES: Consider dropping 6600GT for a cheap 2D or low-end 3D card if the system will not be used for any gaming, to trim about $200 off the price. Also perhaps add a Thermaltake Silent Boost if you are in need of more silence.

- - -

High-End Machine (Heavy Gaming, Heavy Content Creation work) [Cost: $1,000-$1,100]

- Motherboard: DFI NF4 Ultra-D (Socket 939)
- CPU: Athlon 64 3200+ (Socket 939) Winchester or Venice
- RAM: 2 x 512 MB Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200
- Video: eVGA 6800GT PCI-Express or ATi X800XL
- Storage: 2 x Seagate 7200.7 160 GB Hard Disks (PATA or SATA)
- Optical: NEC 3250A DVD+/-RW Drive
- Case: Antec Sonata
- Power Supply: Sonata's TruePower 380W Supply

NOTES: For greater expandability, upgrade to SLI version of the motherboard, and consider adding a Thermaltake Silent Boost Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu for a quiet but effective cooling solution if you do HEAVY overclocking. A64s are not hot-running chips, so this is usually not even necessary for less than a 500 MHz overclock.

- - -

Very High-End Machine (Extremely Heavy Gaming, Heavy Content Creation work) [Cost: ~$1,700]

- Motherboard: DFI NF4 SLI-D (Socket 939)
- CPU: Athlon 64 3500+ (Socket 939)
- RAM: 2 x 1024 MB Corsair Value Select or Kingston ValueRAM DDR400/PC3200, or 4x 512 MB sticks if using a Venice Core CPU (RAM will default to 83% proper speed [DDR333 instead of 400] if all 4 slots are filled with a Non-Venice A64.)
- Video: 2 x eVGA 6800GT PCI-Express
- Storage: 2 x Seagate 7200.7 160 GB Hard Disks (PATA or SATA)
- Optical: NEC 3250A DVD+/-RW Drive
- Case: Your pick.
- Power Supply: Antec True430

NOTES: Consider adding Enermax Noisetaker 485W power supply if you intend to do a lot of expansion in the future though it probably will not be necessary as even the True430 provides plenty of overhead for this eventuality. Consider adding a Zaman CNPS7000-AlCu or Thermaltake Silent Boost if you intend to overclock or insist on more silence.

- - -

... So, there you go. I hope that this will help explain what to put in your new machines, and I'll make sure to keep this thread up to date with the best options at the time. Feel free to reply with your feedback. If this thread were to be stickied, it would be pretty beneficial, I like to think. So, that's it. Enjoy! :)
 
mmm...what about people who want to go the intel route?
what about people who want rendering machines, or non-gaming builds?
what about sub-$500 gaming/non-gaming builds?
what about updating this (potential) sticky when new hardware comes out?
what about cooling (water, air, phase-change, silent, etc.)?
what about a mouse?
what about speakers?
what about an audio expansion card (which you decline to advise about...)?
what about cabling?
what about hard drive RAID arrays?
what about floppy drives?


...and oh. my. gosh...what about folding?! http://folding.stanford.edu TEAM 33!
 
A lot of your questions were answered in my thread and I really wish you'd have read it in its entirety before criticizing. Here are some addendums.

Intel vs. AMD

For people who want to do lots of video encoding and rendering, there will be a small performance gain on an Intel machine. That said, the ability to upgrade to the far superior Dual-Core CPU which beats out Intel's most fanciful processors PERIOD, is a proposition that should be far more enticing than an Intel machine that cannot be upgraded without an entirely new motherboard, and when it is upgraded, it will still have lesser performance at video encoding, and compete remarkably well, tying with the Intel in rendering.

And as I said at the VERY TOP OF THE POST, people who are dead set on Intel processors for whatever reason can build an Intel machine, this thread is about providing the best bang for your buck and upgradability, and it so happens that right now, an Athlon 64 based machine is the best for those criteria and then some.

Audio

As I said, I am not an audio guru so I am not getting into audio cards and speaker setups. That can be for the audio buffs to handle. Keyboards, Mice, these all their place; this thread is for selecting core PC components. As I said for non-gamers, skip the 6600GT or X800XL or 6800GT or what have you and pick something very cheap and geared for 2D.

RAID Arrays

As for RAID arrays, if you go RAID, use RAID-1 for mirroring/redundancy with two identical disks to keep your data safe in the event of a hard disk failure. RAID-0 provides extremely small performance gains, in fact, it even SLOWS DOWN accesses to many disks, like WD Raptors. It also introduces a LOT of danger. A slight issue with one disk will destroy the data on both. You will meet with tragedy one day with hard disks. You will meet with twice the tragedy with RAID-0.

Sub-500 Builds

It's in the works, editing the post in a little while with this information for the more budgeted among us.

High-End Cooling

We have a whole forum for Water cooling and Extreme cooling. There is no need for a post here about that. I made recommendations of two quality air coolers, Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu and Thermaltake Silent Boost. If I were to recommend one water cooling system it would be the Thermaltake BigWater or Koolance Exos for ease of installation and overall performance.

Updating the Thread

I said very specifically I would update this thread with new information as other purchases become more cost and performance effective. I don't know what you are complaining about. What ABOUT updating it? :p

"Cabling", I don't know what you're even talking about. And what ABOUT folding? :p
 
In your "high-end" machine, you have 4x512mb of RAM with a 3500+. That won't work "right." It might work to some degree, but it won't be stable, will have to run DDR333 speed, or 2T timing (best case scenario). I'd recommend 2x1GB instead.

Also I would recommend throwing in the price of OS software. In an office environment that needs WinXP Pro, you're talking an extra $100 unless you're a software pirate (I don't care one way or the other, but no need for Microsoft to bust down the door of your offices).

Also, I think you should add OCZ to your "short list" of good PSU manufacturers. I know how much you dislike them but they do make a pretty good PSU :D .
 
kirbyrj said:
In your "high-end" machine, you have 4x512mb of RAM with a 3500+. That won't work "right." It might work to some degree, but it won't be stable, will have to run DDR333 speed, or 2T timing (best case scenario). I'd recommend 2x1GB instead.

Also I would recommend throwing in the price of OS software. In an office environment that needs WinXP Pro, you're talking an extra $100 unless you're a software pirate (I don't care one way or the other, but no need for Microsoft to bust down the door of your offices).

Also, I think you should add OCZ to your "short list" of good PSU manufacturers. I know how much you dislike them but they do make a pretty good PSU :D .


4x512mb works fine in a revE 3500+ :D
 
I'll revise the post but it's really depending on the CPU type. You'll notice I recommend looking around for a Venice where the DDR333 bug with 4 sticks of RAM is fixed. As for OCZ, I've seen too much unreliability, shady design and misleading (outright lying!) marketing so far on their first supplies to trust them yet. The ones on my list are there because of YEARS of amazing performance, good deals and non-deceptive marketing. When they have more of a track record I'll put them on the list too.
 
This is a good idea, but a lot of the things you said have the ring of your personal opinion to it. Not that I disagree with you, but it's only a matter time before some jackass comes in here, starts a flame war, and gets the topic locked. For instance, your part dissing SATA drives due to their high prices will probably make someone mad, and the part about neither GPU company having a "real inherent advantage" is practically asking for nVidia trolls to bring up SM3/SLI, or ATI trolls to bring up the X800XL's excellent price/performance ratio. I'm not saying you did bad, you actually did a really good job. My suggestion is to rewrite that so it sounds more unbiased. Another suggestion is to add some recommendations in each department (IE, suggest a mobo or two in the mobo department, a GPU or two in the GPU department, etc).
 
Epicenter said:
A lot of your questions were answered in my thread and I really wish you'd have read it in its entirety before criticizing. Here are some addendums.
<snip...>
And as I said at the VERY TOP OF THE POST, people who are dead set on Intel processors for whatever reason can build an Intel machine, this thread is about providing the best bang for your buck and upgradability, and it so happens that right now, an Athlon 64 based machine is the best for those criteria and then some.
oh, my bad, when i read the thread title (The "Parts for my New PC" MegaThread!) i thought it meant any New PC, not only-AMD-PCs (should have RTFA)
<snip>
Epicenter said:
Sub-500 Builds

It's in the works, editing the post in a little while with this information for the more budgeted among us.
see, i do have constructive criticism.
<snip>
Epicenter said:
High-End Cooling

We have a whole forum for Water cooling and Extreme cooling. There is no need for a post here about that. I made recommendations of two quality air coolers, Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu and Thermaltake Silent Boost. If I were to recommend one water cooling system it would be the Thermaltake BigWater or Koolance Exos for ease of installation and overall performance.
and yet, you try to make a sticky to end all of the "my PC" questions in the general hardware forum...not to say that "my PC" are the only threads in G[H], but they are a significant portion of it (as is evidenced by your desire to make a sticky...)
<snip>
Epicenter said:
Updating the Thread

I said very specifically I would update this thread with new information as other purchases become more cost and performance effective. I don't know what you are complaining about. What ABOUT updating it? :p
my bad
<snip>
Epicenter said:
"Cabling", I don't know what you're even talking about. And what ABOUT folding? :p
by cabling i meant why not discuss different cabling solutions? rounded vs. un-rounded, costs, profit in lower temperatures and OCabiltiy? i just want this sticky to be complete is all.

what about folding?! aww..i was just trying to get some traffic for the DC Forum and just get some help for the cause which any of you reading this post can do really easily via this sticky and you can even get "advanced" here and if you really get into it start a farm!
phew!
</ever-so-shameless-plug>
 
It looks like the 4x512mb issue isn't fixed with Venice cores :(. Probably run DDR400 but only at 2T. I guess it's a step in the right direction, but 2x1GB is still the way to go I guess :).

Bah, OCZ makes a good PSU :p .
 
Awesome post Epicenter. Anyone who is in here complaining should add to it, not tear it down.
 
NumbLock said:
Awesome post Epicenter. Anyone who is in here complaining should add to it, not tear it down.

I'm glad someone isn't criticizing it. It took a while to write. :(
 
This is an absolutely fantastic post, great job. One thing I think could help would be linking to the various [H]ardForum subForums for each of the components. For instance, you give a short list of good PSU's and bad ones, you could link to http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566 for someone to get more info. I think links like that could help it be a little more polished, but I don't know :D
 
dualityim said:
Is there a specific reason for leaving off the Asus A8N-SLI board?

I've seen two web forums now clogged with complaints of issues, failed onboard components (most notably the non-nVidia ethernet interface), random deaths of the whole works and the board failing to boot, acting as if it has no memory, when the same RAM it's tested with works flawlessly in other machines. Switching boards fixed about all of these problems.

Two additional failures were had by friends of mine who purchased this exact board and its Non-SLI counterpart.

So, until I can see some real, substantial proof this line's been cleaned up, I'm not in a rush to recommend it. It's a fast and feature-rich board, but it is definitely in need of reworking.
 
Great read! Thanks for taking the time to do this, will be helpful I am sure as I plan a sorely needed upgrade.
 
Calis said:
the abit fatal1ty is a quality board

It's also unacceptably expensive. It costs about as much as an SLI board, and it doesn't support SLI. It doesn't supply much that's different from another board over $60 cheaper.You don't get the benefit of having 2 ethernet ports or other niceties on your back panel because the thing is dominated by 2 noisy fans that are entirely unnecessary. Given the obvious technical competancy of the guy who designed it I halfway expected him to put a heatsink and fan on the BIOS chip. :D

The Intel version of the Fatal1ty is an even bigger joke, with a gigantic OTES cooling shroud on the power electronics around the socket. While Intel's near-socket regulators, etc. get very hot, there are better ways to cool them than this. The board was designed for heavy overclocking and performance, yet the shroud prevents installation of any coolers except the Intel stock one, and on some models, DDR2 support is missing (it doesn't provide a performance boost, but still, why exclude it?)
 
I also vote for a sticky. These kind of posts can come in handy a lot more than some people think, they especially help keep unneeded posts off the forums. As long as people continue to use them..which would be more likely if it was on the first page! ;)
 
I vote for sticky, if it's re-written non-biased, and add a section for "top of the line" CPU...

also, might want to add a few DVD drives to it...
and Raid 0 is not all loss, raid 1 takes space and time, and anyone that has half a brain will learn to back up important stuff with DVDs rather then waste space for Raid 1.... also, raptors come with a 5 yr warranty, so whatever "failure" they may have isn't going to happen soon and WD is behind everyone on that, your thoughts on PCs (although well intented) need some refreshing because you need to test all the products to give a say on them, not just steal pointers you got from Tom's Hardware or another review site....
 
also, raptors come with a 5 yr warranty, so whatever "failure" they may have isn't going to happen soon
Tell that to the guy that figured out how to solve world peace in a 100,000 line program, then had his RAID0 raptors go down. What is WD going to do, reconstruct your data for you?
 
One point, backup the files you need regularly, harddrive failure is possible to occur on both drives, plus what if the drive isn't able to recover the file? just back them up like normal people don't get the american "quick fix" method
 
RAID-0 is a bad idea because it increases access speeds by perhaps up to 5%, or sometimes as low as 0% (or in the case of Raptors it slows them down).... and every disk you add increases the likelihood of failure by 100%. It's usually not a risk worth taking.

And RAID-1 has a purpose. Like servers. Where realtime backup is essential. It's not always efficient to be burning 50 DVDs a day to get a copy of a hard disk.
 
Great informative post but rather biased towards AMD cpus. I second the comment that this needs to be rewritten in an unbiased manner to be stickied in the General hardware forum, or at least renamed for Parts for my New AMD PC MegaThread.

/on a 3 year old AMD rig, looking to build a new one and considering both intel and amd equally in an unbiased manner.
 
It isn't biased to recommend the hardware that will be upgradable for 2 more years, compared to LGA775 which will be phased out when Intel releases its next attempt at Dual Core processors, which won't be so quickly thrown together. There isn't enough bandwith on the existing socket and odds are, a new chipset will be needed. It isn't logical to go with LGA775 right now. So, I didn't recommend it.
 
Epicenter said:
It isn't biased to recommend the hardware that will be upgradable for 2 more years, compared to LGA775 which will be phased out when Intel releases its next attempt at Dual Core processors, which won't be so quickly thrown together. There isn't enough bandwith on the existing socket and odds are, a new chipset will be needed. It isn't logical to go with LGA775 right now. So, I didn't recommend it.
Maybe your right, but the way you wrote it is still going to attract trolls.
 
sac_tagg said:
Maybe your right, but the way you wrote it is still going to attract trolls.

The trolls and !!!!!!s need to come in touch with reality.

I (whatever number we are at now) the sticky. ;)
 
I believe I'm the only one who finds this not at all impressive. It has a certain bias to it, especially the choices of product you provided and so much of its information is missing. It fails to point to certain great threads in this forum which would already do a better job than this article's explanations. For example, PSU's and such. And there is quite bit of misinformation there, especially with RAM timing and divisors. This article is quite limited in many ways. PSU brands and choices are very limited, HSF brands and choices are very limited. I don't even know why the Thermaltake Silent Booster was even chosen (and seemingly forced/encouraged).

Not satisfied. Needs quite a bit of work before it gets stickied. Or then again, you can always get rid of this article and post all links to the other actual stickies that are more complete and accurate than this article.

-J.
 
The suggestions I posted are, whether you choose to agree or not, some of the most effective buys at the present time. They are the concensus of myself, numerous others and the 5-thousand odd persons at Something Awful's SH/SC forum. You make numerous slights against my post and my opinions, yet you don't provide any explanation of your problems with them at all. For example, you slam my recommendation of the Thermaltake Silent Boost (yes, Silent BOOST, not BOOSTER. Google.) ... it's a VERY powerful cooler and extremely low-noise, great for overclocking an A64 and a hell of a lot easier to install than the Zalman CNPS7000-Cu or AlCu, and will fit about any motherboard, which can't be said for the Zalman.

As for 'misinformation', my statements about RAM timings and clock divisors are entirely accurate. You haven't even made an attempt to disprove me. That's just rich.

Think I didn't provide "Enough" information? If you read the thread more carefully you'd know what I was trying to do-- to provide the VITAL information required to pick the parts for a PC, not to explain what every single part does and every possible choice you have. I pointed out good places to get more info, e.g. for Power supplies, the information I provided is enough most people started even if they have no idea what they're doing, states the brands to trust and the brands to avoid, and a page that will explain with detailed graphs how to calculate the required 12v amperage for your system before purchasing.

So, I should make this a link to "Better" Threads? You don't link to any of these supposed 'better' threads yourself. I looked long and hard and I didn't see another thread like this one. Would it kill you to at least point them out? Oh, apparently it would, because you'd rather not go out of your way and take jabs at the guy who took hours to write out about 3 pages of information, with your obnoxious little 1 paragraph post.

Quit being an obnoxious arrogant little bitch and appreciate that someone went out of their way to help people. Or is that too much effort, too?
 
I think this is an awesome thread, and people who a poo-pooing it obviously are already way ahead of the game. This is not a thread for joe bleeding edge who's trying to tweak out his already-made current generation computer. It's for people like me, who haven't seriously looked at computer parts in 3+ years, and need to get up to speed on what's decent, both in quality and cost effectiveness.

One thing that surprised me was the information that quality, overclocked RAM doesn't really help a system much. I'd read a bunch of articles on OCZ Gold VX and how with a lot of voltage you could really crank them up, and how great that was, blah blah. Now I'm wondering if value corsair RAM would be just as good.

Also the part on CPUs, and how a 3000+ is really just fine surprised me. I figured that a 4000+ san diego would blow it away... 15% is a lot less of a bump than I expected between the two.

As for AMD to Intel... I have to agree with Epic, it's a no brainer. The motherboards are better, the CPUs are cheaper and cooler and faster (for the average user)... so why bother with intel?

Anyway, my point is... I'm near the end of my research, so I've found out a lot of the "what's a good brand" stuff through my own scouring of websites, and I think his list is pretty accurate, but it's nice to have it all in one place, rather than taking days and days to research every part of the computer.

Don't let the Man get you down, Epic.

-Nate
 
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