New Comp Build

Hey, I’m looking to buy a new comp that is going to be heavily overclocked.

Here’s my old one for reference:
1.4ghz T-bird
PNY 256MB SDRAM 133
BFG FX 5200 256mb
Antec 350W psu

$1500 Estimated Budget (prices as of 7/22/05):
CPU:
1 AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice - retail $125.66
RAM:
1 Mushkin SP 2x1024mb $79.95 x 2 = $159.90 (w/ $10 MIR each)
Case:
1 Gigabyte 3D Aurora $126.40 + $67.18 shipping
GPU:
1 XFX 7800GTX $539.00 - free gamepad, 450/1250 clock
PSU:
1 Seasonic S12-500 $105.00
MOBO:
1 DFI nF4-DAGF $89.00
POSTPONED Speakers:
1 Logitech X-530 5.1 Retail $54.99
Hard Drive:
1 Maxtor DM 10 200GB 7200.16 SATA150 $97.50
Cooling:
1 Arctic Silver Ceramique $3.99
2 Heatsink for socket 939 $4.99
POSTPONED 3 water cooling:
. CPU Block and Pump
. 1Danger Den Copper TDX and DD12V-D5 combo $108.75
. GPU Block:
. 1 Low Profile MAZE4 GPU block $46.45
. 2 8 BGA Copper RAMsinks $9.95
. Radiator:
. 1 Black Ice Pro II $35.99
. 2 Panaflo 120mm M1A $9.75 x2 = $19.50
. 3 Radiator Mounting Kit $4.95
Reservoir:
. 1 CrazyPC single 5 1/4" bay $15.99
. Tubing:
. 1 Tygon 3/8" ID 9/16" OD 10 ft x $1.95 = $19.50
. Fittings:
. 1 1/4 NPT Fittings for 3/8" ID tubing $1.00 x 4 = $4.00
. 2 Polypropylene "Elbow" 2 x $1.75 = $3.50
. Clamps:
. 1 Metal Worm Clamps - purchased!
. Other:
. 1 MCT -40 water additive $0.00 (gift w/ >$100 order)
. 2 6" Velcro $2.49 x 2 = $4.98

I got the velcro to fix my pump in place and the elbows/fittings to be safe.
watercooling total: $273.56

I am keeping my CD-ROM drive, DVD burner, a FDD, keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from my old computer.

Subtotal: $ or with watercooling $
(removed temporarily because I'm too lazy to calculate it AGAIN)

Newegg total: $187.30
Monarch Computer total: $89.00
eWiz total: $119.95
Zip Zoom Fly total: $636.50
Silicon Valley Compucycle total: $13.89
Case-Mod total: $114.68
CoolPC total: $193.58
*Danger Den total: $166.22* All
*CrazyPC total: $72.18* Not
*Coolerguys total: $27.23* Included
*Sidewinder total: $84.50* In Total

Absolute Total (w/o watercooling or speakers): $1,354.90
Total (w/ Out of Stock TDX/D5 combo): ~$1,567.54
(^Might increase slightly with shipping added).
-------------

placeholder:

Danner Mag 3 $44.99

edit 7/25/05: Haven't recieved anything yet, but my bank called to check if the purchases I had made were really me. Guess that's what I get for ordering at 6 am!

See this link for the current discussion.

Do the Asus 6800 have 12 pixel pipelines that allow unlocking to 16? I looked around but can't find specifics on any site. Just wondering because there is a MSI 6800 listed right next to this one (also refurb) that says 8 pixel pipelines, but I don't think that's right.

I was thinking of 6800GTs for my SLi, or even waiting for the next gen of cards to come out. However, after looking at these prices and seeing the overclocking going on, I think I’ll save the money and go with plain old 6800s.

-------------

So about my proc. I want a Venice, for OCing and I’ll probably buy another GB of RAM down the road and will need the better memory controller. The 3500+ is a little expensive, and the 3000+ multiplier doesn’t put out the good CPU speeds that I want. The 3200+ is a lot less expensive than the 3500+, and not too much more expensive than the 3000+.

With the cooling I’m thinking of, how high do you think I’ll safely be able to get my Venice? I don’t want temps above the low 50s, but the vCore shouldn’t be a problem with the Mobo and PSU I’m getting.

---------

RAM. I want to get a lot of performance out of these, and from everything I’ve seen, the way to do that is to keep the timings low (2-2-2-5 I hope) and raise the speed as high as it will go, then put a divider on and keep going CPU wise. I’m probably not getting water cooling, so I won’t be pushing TCCD as high as it will go I think. Therefore, I opted for some OCZ VX, 3200 b/c it was a lot cheaper that the 4000.

How much higher speed will I be able to run the pc4000 version at 2-2-2-5 (or 2-2-2-8) than the 3200?

About TCCD. I thought that if you could give BH-5/CH-5 (i.e. VX) the voltage it liked, then you could put the clock speed up very high with tight timings. We have all heard the A64s like tight timings. If I got TCCD, I would obviouslt end up with 1:1 probably, at about 280 I think? (Estimating on what the Venice can do) Would that ram do something like 2.5-3-3-7 at those speeds? Wouldn’t VX be better if at 250 (or 240) 2-2-2-5 (like a 5:6 divider) when compared to TCCD 280 2.5-3-3-7 1:1? (clock speed same)

--------

Mobo. I like DFI because it gives me to voltage for VX. I got my power supply so that I could use the DFI board. I saw three boards on Newegg but couldn’t really tell the difference. They all had NF4 and 2 PCI-e x16 slots. Here they are:
DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $135.00
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard – Retail $179.00
DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $228.00

I thought the only difference was the Raid possibilities. I am not a HDD freak (only got one 60 GB PATA), so I don’t need it. That’s why I got the cheap one. Can you explain the differences in SLi?

------------

Cooling. I want to get good cooling so I can overclock, but I think watercooling is a bit expensive. I do not know whether to get the XP-120 and a good fan or the Zalman 7700-Cu. Which will be better? Since I’m overclocking my video cards as well, I think I’ll get some NV Silencers. How high will I be able to go with Silencers? GT speeds? Ultra speeds? I will probably OC then unlock the pipelines.

AS5 is a must. Am I able to put it on the Video cards as well as my proc?

------------

Case. I want to keep it simple but cool air. The case I’m looking at is supposed to allow two more fans to be added to the back, in addition to two on the sides. I dunno about the front, I’m sure I’ll find a place for some. I have never had a window case before, so I got one of those. No LEDs for me. I am able to add a 80mm, a 90mm, and a 120mm from my old case.

if you want comments, then it's best to break things down into smaller posts.

for the graphics cards: leadtek 6800 GT comes with an awsome stock cooler. it might be something to think about as opposed to getting something else, and then having to put an aftermarket cooler on afterwards.

for air cooling to work out well in a system like this, you need good case airflow. the XP-90 and XP-120 are great heatsinks, but crappy case airflow will kill their cooling ability.

for an a64 system, the XP-90 or XP-120 will perform about as well as a much more expensive watercooling kit, with a single 120mm rad/fan. don't bother with watercooling unless you are prepared to go all the way.

thnx. I'll maybe post something in the proc forum and the memory forum. (I posted this here because there didnt seem to be a comprehensive forum where I cold get input - and one of the driving factors behind my choices is OCability)

Mostly I'd like feedback on my memory and proc and GPU choices.

I was looking around a bit and it seems getting 6800s might be a good cheap alternative. Has anyone got them to ultra speeds?

I don't think I like the idea of spending more money on graphics than the rest of my parts combined. If I am saving on the rest of it, why not save on video? I was looking at two REFURBISHED: ASUS 6800 256MB DDR PCI-E $248.00

Does this have the 12 pixel pipeline thing that can be unlocked to 16? I looked around but can't find specifics on any site. Just wondering because there is a 6800 listed right next to this one (also refurb) that says 8 pixel pipelines, but I don't think that's right.

If I got those, I'd probably get two NvSilencer5 for $37.99 each.

wow Russ, you've actually managed to create an inteligble thread about building a new system, with real punctuation and everything . You have mastered an ablility many forum members fail to even come close to possessing, my hats off to you. Anyway, everything looks pretty good though if your going to attempt to run an SLI rig off the Ultra-D motherboard be careful. Under pressure from nvidia DFI has started creating Ultra motherboards that are no longer moddable to have SLI capabilities, just figured I'd warn you. Also I'd reccomend getting this set off G-skill 3200 over that of the OCZ VX. With the voltages on the gigabyte, tccd would be better suited for it. here.

Thanks. I want to do this right.

I decided to scrap a 6800GT idea in favor of lower cost (also now everything is currently from the egg - the 6800GTs would have had to come from chumbo.com). I found some cheap 6800s and put them on my list as well as NvSilencers. See the first reply for my questions about this.

Mainly I want to know:
Is there another proc I should be looking at?

Will the mobo I have chosen work well in SLi?

Should I get water cooling instead of all this air cooling (will that be a significant change)?
Will my case be a problem?

If I am going for max OC with air (not stock air of course), will I benefit more from G.Skill TCCD or OCZ VX (I will use a divider if I have to btw)?

If I get the VX, what OC difference will I see between the 3200 and the 4000 (How high with each at 2-2-2-5 or 2-2-2-8)?

How does the RMA process at newegg work? Can I return something like a Mobo that works and get store credit?

Should I go for a lot of refurb parts to save some money? I saw a refurb of my planned mobo for $97.50 and I'm drooling over saving $30 bucks on such an already low priced mobo.

edit: I changed the first two posts. Number 1 is just a list of my parts now, and how much they cost. Post #2 has a lot of what I am thinking when I choose these parts, please read it before you post.

edit2: O I see what you mean Baker God. I saw gigabyte and I was like where did I get a gigabyte board. I have been thinking about this a lot and I had an asus board on my favorites list on my main comp (which I'm not on right now - weekend vacation). So I didn't have the link and I just searched newegg for an AGP board that would suit my proc. Now that I've decided I want to get 2 6800s, I've only got one setup and just the DFI board planned.

Russ said:

Mainly I want to know:
1. Is there another proc I should be looking at?

2. Will the mobo I have chosen work well in SLi?

3. Should I get water cooling instead of all this air cooling (will that be a significant change)?
Will my case be a problem?

4. If I am going for max OC with air (not stock air of course), will I benefit more from G.Skill TCCD or OCZ VX (I will use a divider if I have to btw)?
If I get the VX, what OC difference will I see between the 3200 and the 4000 (How high with each at 2-2-2-5 or 2-2-2-8)?

5. How does the RMA process at newegg work? Can I return something like a Mobo that works and get store credit?

6. Should I go for a lot of refurb parts to save some money? I saw a refurb of my planned mobo for $97.50 and I'm drooling over saving $30 bucks on such an already low priced mobo.

Click to expand...

Okay well in answer to question 1. I'd say yes, that proc will be fine. Your overclocking and on a budget so yeah, it is about the best you can get. I love my 3200, cheap and with a high enough multiplier to make oc'ing easy.

To answer question 2. no it won't. That was what I was saying about not being moddable. The nforce 4 Ultra boards do not have SLI capabilities despite the fact that some may have two PCI-e x16 ports. Your going to need to get the DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR not the Ultra-D.

To answer question 3. don't even worry about that. Yes a good watercooling system is signifigantly better than air, but is also going to add another $200-$300 to the price. Plus thats alot of stuff to mess with for a beging begining pc builder Best to get yourself established, than move into the more alternative areas. A quality heatsink matched with a quality fan will do you just fine for much cheaper. I'd reccomend either Thermalright's XP-120 or XP-90c matched with either a 120mm or 92mm panaflo fan.

To answer question 4. well, thats a toughy. While tccd based ram (g-skill) can reach amazing speeds ( 250-300+), but it does so with loose timmings. The VX usaully tops out at only around 250-260mhz fsb, but will do so with incredibly tight timmings. So its a even trade-off. I'd say go with the VX just casue your getting the mobo that this ram was pretty much made for so you might as well. I'm thinking of getting some too

To answer question 5. neweggs rma policy is very simple. Just call em up, tell them the problem and they will take it back. You can have it repaired, replaced or get store credit with a 15% restocking fee.

To answer question 6. I wouldn't buy a refurb on a major part like a mobo. It be best to just buy it new.

well.......i relly like TCCD memory, since my own can get up to 246 FSB@ CL 2 with moderate over-volting, or hit 275@ CL 2.5 with no over volting. it's really the user who decides where to make their FSB vs timings tradeoffs with this memory.

i also feel that you should probably stick with air cooling, and a good heatsink (although i wouldn't bother with the XP-90c, just the XP-90) however i feel that it would be good to start out with a cheap steel case without a window at first. mod the bugger to accept a 120mm intake fan in the side panel, right over the CPU, and try running with that for a while. get something that looks a bit nicer and is not as easy to mod after having modded something that you really don't care about.

it might e good to have a second intake fan near the vid cards, and then the hot air will be exhausted if you use NV silencers.

yea that case. stay away from it. get a better one. i have one, sure its great, but its tiny. get a chieftec server case, they give you better room, and better airflow. everything else looks good, id go for the OCZ VX 3200 for ram.

Ok. I have a pretty much standard (i guess its steel) case right now that I wouldn't mind cutting some fan holes in.

Well, I've yet again changed my mind on video cards. I was talking with my friend and he informed me that you can't unlock the 6800NU pci-e b/c it just dones't have the 16 pipelines. Therefore, I will not be getting it. I am thinking of getting a 6600gt now, then returning it and buying 2 better cards. The next gen ones sound appealing, so I'll probably wait until they come out and their price drops a bit.

Should I get a 6600GT as a placeholder for a few months? Or something else?

Thanks for the ram comments, I guess I'll get the VX. That's what I wanted in the first place.

Yeah, I guess I won't be able to get that mobo. So cheap ($135.000) for two pci-e slots. There was a comment saying you could mod it to SLi with a dab of conductive paint, but I suppose I'll pass on that. I'll get the $179.00 model then, I don't need a lot of raid features.
I thought you meant I wouldn't be able to use it Baker, but I wanted to be sure.

Yea I haven't built a pc before, but two of my friends in the dorm room next to mine built pcs this year, and one of them got watercooling, so I think I could do it, esp. with his help. They bought 3500+s and two 6800GTs each.
I have also added a lot of things and upgrades into my current comp, so I'm pretty familiar with the inside. I have read a lot on this and I'm looking forward to it.

I'm gonna alter my first post with this in mind....

edit: Altered my build with this in mind. RAM, Mobo, Proc, GPU all changed. I don't know what my case should be, anyone have some good low-cost suggestions? I want maximum air flow at minimum price, I don't care about looks much. Also, unfortunately it seems Panaflo does not stock 120mm models on newegg. I found one at this place called Jab Tech (this links to the fan), but I hae never heard of this place, so I dunno about shipping times, reliability, etc.

oh right, those two guys reminded me about the case. If you do end up purchasing another case don't get that raidmax. I know its cheap amd looks nice, but you could realy do better especially if your going to be doing things like watercooling. I'm with CCUABIDExORxDIE on this one, a great beginers case would be either the Chenming (chieftec) 301 mid-tower or the 601 full-tower cases. Both offer a sleek and purposeful external and internal design with great moddibility. My first case was an early revision of the 601 and it was just awesome to work with.

Alright, I changed the case. I looked at those Chenming cases, but they didn't have any 120mm fans which I like.

I like this one: AeroCool Magic 3D-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $69.00

It has 2 included 120mm fans and space for 1x 120mm or 2x 80mm on the back. It has a window (albeit a wierd one - o well scratches less visible), a large side fan (yay more cpu/gpu cooling), and a large front fan.

at 17.8" x 7.9" x 17"(DxWxH) it is about the same size as the 301 case you were talking about. I'll probably have it on my desk (no feet, door might get stuck on the carpet), so I don't want uber height and length.)

thanks for everything you guys have said so far, it's really helped.

edit: ug, haveing some complications with the fan. I think I'll get the Thermaltake Thunderblade b/c it is pretty quiet (although louder than advertised) and moved air comparable to the Panaflo. here are the choices:
THERMALTAKE Thunderblade A1926 120mm Blue LED $10.99 - 78 cfm 21 dBA
SILVERSTONE 120mm 2 ball $16.99 - 103.44 cfm 44 dBA
Panaflo FBA12G M1A $11.99 - 86.5 cfm 35.5 dBA

----------

now,

which fan do you think I should get? (The Thunderblade is reported by the reviewers to be more like 29-30 dBA)

How's my case selection? Any glaring air flow problems?

proc, mobo, psu, gpu (6600GT for now), ram, xp-120, AS5 are all set I think.

panaflo fans are really nice to work with........

Maybe so, but I'm planning to crank all my fans up as high as they go and OC as much as possible. I'm not really interested in a good fan controller. If you aren't talking about control, how are the panaflo better? Do they never breakdown or something? Easy installation?

I don't want to go for the huge cfm though because I want to keep my dBA down too. I'm just looking for a good price for a low dBA and high cfm (like the Thunderblade). The Silverstone moves over 100 cfm, but the dBA is 44!! That is too much for me. 35 dBA is pretty good (the panaflo), but I don't think I'll notice the difference between 80 and 86 cfm, and decibels scale exponentially (so 5 cfm sacrifice for 5 dBA is good in my books).

I would really take whichever is more highly recommended, but panaflo isn't sold in the 120mm variety on Newegg. I have almost everything else from there, and I'd prefer a bulk order and Newegg's reliability than getting my parts from other places.

maybe panaflo fans don't last forever, but they come pretty close and can take some abuse. so do delta fans. that is why i said that panaflo fans are nice to work with.

i have not tried the thunderblade, however if it is anything at all like their other fans, it will be 30 db or louder, in spite of it's 21 db rating.

edit: perhaps i should have read your earlier post more closely, i just said 30 db based on my own experiences.

I also give props to the awesome organization, other posters should follow suit . Off hand it looks good. If you're holding out for the next generation of video cards, then a 6600GT is indeed a nice card to get you by for the interim. However, I'd suggest another PSU; Antec PSU's are horribly inefficient and generate alot of heat. I'd recommend something like an Enermax, I love mine (and it's 82% efficiency, especially in the summer) . Also, as stated, thermaltake fans are horrible. They are loud and their specifications, unfortunately, are far from the truth. I learned this the hard way, as their CAT fans are NOT 21dB, and many of their other fans I've worked with are much louder than specs. Panaflo, however, makes a very high quality and quiet fan. The one I have pushes more air than a similar thermaltake, yet it is easily twice as quiet. Yate Loon is also another good company to look into.

well, i have had good experiences with both antec and enermax and i really don't reccomend one as being better than the other.

efficiency wise, as a rule, the more tightly you tollerance the voltages of a switching power supply, the lower the efficiency. considering the antec's 3% tollerencing as opposed to the enermax's 5% ................

hmmm, ill put this one:
ENERMAX (24P) ATX 550W Power Supply $122.50

and the one i had before:
Antec TRUE550 550W Power Supply $125.00

as alternatives. I am inclined toward the Antec b/c the Evermax there is a comment about it really being a 20 pin PSU with a removable clip that added the last 4 pins. I am wary about this since some people have had problems with DFI when it comes to using 20->24 pin connectors.

However, I want to reduce heat so that I can OC more/make my fans put more towards my CPU/GPU.

Would you take the heat and 3% tolerance or cooler and 5%? How much cooler would it be?

Alternateively, this appears to be a very highly recommended PSU:
PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510W SLI 24-pin $229.99

The problem, obviously, is the cost. It would be nice to keep the parts under $1,000, but if this will give me significant benefits, I'll take it. Does anyone have experience with this PSU or another PCP&C PSU? What is it good for?

-----

I couldn't find anywhere to buy or look at prices for Yate Loon fans, although on their site the numbers looked good. I switched back to the Panaflo because of the favorable responses.

PSUs vent their heat directly to the outside of the case, so any influence on case or CPU temps is as a result of heating up the room itself.

both PSUs have their strong and weak points.

the enermax puts more amps on the 12V rail, and that will help with you vid card OC.

the antec has native SATA connectors and finer tollerancing.

like i said, i'm not prepared to reccomend one over the other, because they are both good supplies.

PCP&C makes the best supplies out there. i can't get one for any kind of reasonable price, but if i could, i would use one. i get QUITE irate when PCP&C users make it sound like antec and enermax units are not overclocking PSUs, though. PCP&C is best, but that does not mean that enermax and antec are anything other than excellent.

Hmmm, enermax is sounding like a better choice.

What will better tolerancing do for my comp?

finer tollerencing CAN allow for a better OC, but 5% is pretty good, and my current enermax does better than 5% under load.

Well ok then. I'll probably go with the Enermax for the sake of the 12V rail.

2% advertised difference probable won't make much of a difference, so we'll see.

Thnx for the PSU advise, I don't have much experience with them. I just picked the Antec because it was the first I found with a guarenteed 24 pin and a big 12V rail for a low price.

Hmmm, I've decided to look into water cooling, since I have heard that it can cost as little as $150 and a XP-120, fan, and 2 NvSilencers will cost at least as much. I'm willing to spend a bit more since it IS water cooling and (I hope) it will help me with my OC. Plus I don't have to worry about noisy fans to keep my OCing cool.

Ok, so to start I read all the pages of the Hardforums watercooling topic, and I'm ready to start looking for parts. Remember this is my case. I think it will work out b/c people mentioned needing 120mm fan on the back, which is what that case has.

Here is what I plan on getting:
Blocks:
1 Danger Den MAZE4 CPU block 1/2" OD fittings $34.95
2 GPU blocks - none b/c only a 6600GT.
Pump:
1 Hydor L35 $53.95
Radiator:
1 Black Ice Xtreme Radiator $65.99
Reservoir:
1 Danger Den Bay Reservoir High-Density Polyethylene $17.95
Tubing:
1 ClearFlex 60 3/8" ID tubing $1.12 x 10 feet = $11.20
Fittings:
1 Brass Fittings 1/4 NPT for 1/2" ID tubing $1.50 x 2 = $3.00
Clamps:
1 Plastic Snap Tubing Clamps for 3/8" ID tubing $.75 x 10 = $7.50
Other:
Water Wetter 12 oz $7.50

Total: $202.04

So, what'dyou guys with WC think? Any common mistakes I'm falling into?

dont even touch that stupid black ice radiator. go to a pepboys or autozone or cap autoparts and pick up a 77' bonneville heatercore, and with minor modding, you have a radiator thats just as good as a black ice, for 25 bucks instead of 60. get a differen cpu block, like the rbx or tdx, as the maze 4 aint to great for a cpu. get a 1/2id system too. you dont need water wetter, as antifreeze will work just as good. you dont need a resivior, you just need a t-line, i believe theres some posts about it in the wcing section. while your there post this, youll get alot more info then you did from me.

yeah, it would be good to post these questions in the watercooling forum.

especially in a system that you are hoping to run SLI with at some later date, a dual 120mm rad is necessary to maintain good temps. the bonneville heatercore is just such a rad, and it performs about as well as a more expensive pre-fab computer rad. weapon~, 2fresh and dangerden sell pre-modded cores of this type, if you're not handy enough to mod them yourself.

the maze 4 block was pretty good back in the day, but there are plenty of newer blocks that perform better. d-tek whitewater, swiftech 6002, dangerden RBX and dangerden TDX are all better blocks that you should probably look into, in about tha order.

the L35 is a good pump. the danner mag 5 is also a good pump.

1/2" ID tubing is a good investment. it won't make MUCH of a difference, but it will help performance somewhat.

zerex coolant additive is a bit better than either antifreeze or waterwetter, and you can get it at an auto parts store.

waterblock:

D-Tek White Water $48.99

Swiftech MCW6002-64™ 1/2" OD CPU Waterblock $45.00

Danger Den Copper RBX waterblock $52.95

Danger Den Copper TDX waterblock $52.95

I don't like getting parts from lots of different stores, but I guess I don't have much of a choice. Too bad the egg doesn't have much of a selection. They actually have the Swiftech 6000 but not the 6002 (the 1/2" OD option). I think I'll get the D-Tek one. What is the third hole used for? Which two do I use?

tubing:

Danger Den UV Tubing 1/2" ID 10x $0.99 = $ 9.90

I would prefer a res, since it seems a lot easier to bleed. Plus since it fits in my cd rack how cumbersome can it be?

T-Line 1x $1.75

radiator:

Modded Heater Core $34.99

Getting what is said to be a Bonneville 77 from 2Fresh.

Radiator Shroud $15.00

you use all three tubes in the white water. the center is the inlet, and the outer two are outlets. the RBX works the same way.

the T line is what you use when you don't want to use a res. if you use a res, you don't usually use a T line. you DO need a Y connector to use the RBX or white water.

i really think that it is a better idea to use good clearflex or tygon tubing, and just add some UV dye to you coolant. the UV stuff is not always as good quality as the clearflex.

Ok, i don't really care that much about the tubing. I assumed it was the same material as the ClearFlex. I'll change it later...

edit. Daishi, I saw your post in anothers WC thread and you mentioned this pump (Hydor Seltz L40 $51.99

Would this perform much better than the L35? I want to have maximum cooling for my money so i can OC a lot.

Is there anything special I have to do with the L40 to make it work in the WC system I have set up?

The L40 looks pretty good, but although it has a higher max head than the L35 by .45 meters, the power usage is 55W instead of 23W. In the end, I am not sure which would yeild better temperatures.

I see you picked the d-tek WW. It is an excellent choice as long as you have a reasonably powerful pump (with high max head). This is a restrictive block.

I would actually suggest getting a danner mag 3 or 5. Do some research here, though, as I have head that the 3 may be better than the 5 because of the extra head, etc. Also, the pump needs to be sealed with silicone along the housing otherwise it will probably leak. Use plastic barbs. Other than that, the pump offers excellent performance, and about 3.2 meters of head! It is cheap to boot, at about $55. It used to be less, but the price has gone up for some reason...

Here are some useful links in finding a good match of pump to waterblock:
http://www.rhcf.com/sisubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/21/23.html
http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php

Good luck.

I decided not to go with the DD block, but with this CPU block instead: Swiftech MCW6002-64™ 1/2" OD $45.00
I want to use a low flow restriction block. (is the Swiftech low flow restrictive?) And also not deal with two out tubes for my first build.

Next, I looked around for Danner's. Are these the Danner Mags you recommended?
AquaticHouse Danner pumps 3: $52.95 5: $59.95
I have heard about the leaking problem. Is this the stuff I should get to fix it?
300" ROLL TEFLON TAPE $.96 + $5.10 shipping
That's pretty expensive shipping for one item, do any of the stores I have gotten other things from sell something like this? The stores:

Here are the fittings I think I should use for the pump:
1/4 NPT Polypropylene Fittings for 1/2" ID tubing $1.00 x4 = $4.00
Should I be getting something different?

i do not know how restrictive the swiftech block is, but it does better under conditions of low flow than the dangerden or d-tek. with the pumps that you seem to be looking at, though, you would probably have high enough flow to take advantage of the d-tek. i don't seen the big deal with dropping a Y connector into the loop to work with having two outlet barbs, but more than one person has been scared off by the thought of doing it, and i have had never used a waterblock where it was necessary. if you go with the L35, then the swiftech might be the better block, but it's really close on all sides.

the hydor L40 and the danner mag 5 are pretty similar. i'm sure that i've seen better prices on the mag 5 than you put up, but that does not take into account different shipping policies and stores with locations near you.

you can get teflon tape at the hardware store. you apply it to the threads of the barbs before screwing them into place. i believe that the mag 5 uses 1/2" threaded barbs, also available at the hardware store. it's good to use plastic barbs because metal barbs expand more quickly than the pump does, and that can stress the plastic that the pump is made of.

don't overtighten the barbs when putting them into the pump. the most common cause of leakage with these pumps it overtightening the barbs, and cracking the impeller housing. use a wrench with a fairly short handle, and don't put a whole lot of force into it. if it leaks a little during leak testing, then tighten the leaky barb a half turn at a time until the leak stops.

the nuber two cause of leakage is people getting lazy taking apart and putting together the pump. if the O rig is not seated where it should be, the pump will leak. my advice: don't take the thing apart. the stealth mod used on the via aqua does not work reliably on these.

if you DO get a leak around the impeller housing, as opposed to from one of the barbs, then you can take apart the impeller assembly, clean and dry everything, and put a bead of silicon caulking around the area where the impeller housing contacts the flat, square area of the pump body.

I am having second thoughts about my case. There isn't a place to put a 120.2 radiator in it so I would probably have to cut out the top and put it there, which I'm not sure I would do a good job on. So, I started looking around for a case with a place for 120mm x2 fans, and they seem to be almost nonexistent! Finally, i found this nice one: Cooler Master Stacker Case Silver/Black $165.50

The only problem with this case is obviously the price. However, it is the only on that I can find that will guarentee romo for a 120x2 radiator. Does anyone have a case that they DIDN'T mod to get a 120x2 radiator to fit? What is it?

----------------

Alright, I have dropped the Swiftech as a CPU block choice as people have been saying that it is extremely hard to get a hold of. I am probably getting the TDX for my block. It seems similar to the WW but with the higher performance nozzle included it should be about the same. Plus only two barbs. I am going to look around though and see if the TDX with #4/#5 nozzle is better or worse than the WW. Plus if I get the TDX that's one less site I have to order parts from.

Alright, I looked here and closely examined the provided graphs. With the number 4 nozzle on the TDX, it will produce a lower flow rate than the RBX in a similar loop. Therefore the delta T will be lower with a #4 TDX. Also, the RBX is essentially the same as the Whitewater in loops with the two pumps that I am sonsidering, and so the TDX will be my first choice.

-------------

I found a cheap place for Danner's pumps (Petsmart) which I can buy at a local petsmart, but I listed the website anyway. The other pump is a 12v pump that people have been talking about modding to 13.8v in some places. The AQX 50z is the same as a Swiftech MCP600 (discontinued). One interesting thing about this pump is that people have talked about getting VERY good performance if it is modded to 13.8v (a $30 adapter required), at this setting it competes with Iwaki (sp.) pumps, the best of high performance pumps (also the best at costing a lot of money it seems). The site is found here.

So anyway, the 50z is $30 more expensive than the Danner, and the Danner has more max GPH but slightly less head. Some sites I have looked at (example) say the 50z/mcp600 is more powerful than the DM3 in high restrictive systems. Since I am going with a highly restrictive CPU block and planning to add two GPU blocks and ram sinks eventually, I will need a pump that is good at high resistences. I just don't know if the extra $30 is worth the DC connecter (instead of AC) and the extra performance. Will it give me a much better overclock/temps?

---------------

other than that, everything else is pretty much set.

Any opinions?

for a place to get the swiftech block check www.swiftnets.com and in the store they are instock there. also www.performance-pcs.com has em

you could use the mag 5 instead of the mag 3, with a highly restrictive block. i don't know what prices you get where you shop, but they are within $5 of each other at the aquarium supply store i shop at.(usually for fish, not pumps)

the aquaextreme is an excellent pump from start to finish, even without a mod. it's just pricey.

heh, yeah I guess I'll think about it and see how much money I have when the time comes.

I was comparing the DM's (a really good site for it is this: http://www.aquatictech.com/pumps.html) but it doesn't have the wattage for the DM3. I looked around and it turns out to be 35W. That's ten less than the DM5 and they have the same head. Also, the flow drops a lot more in the DM5 than the 3, so for now I think I'll leave the DM3 on the list. Slightly less money and it might even cool better.

Hi everyone. Figured this should be updated. So, I was trundling along fine with my old comp, but now it won't POST! I have decided on final parts for my new comp, and I'm waiting to see if my grandparents will help pay for any of this...

New Stuff!

Since the 7800GTX is out now, I have decided on a final graphics solution and GPU waterblock.

I dropped my CPU down to a 3000+ (trying to cut corners here).

Changed my RAM to twinMOS instead of OCZ. I could go with the $41 value twinMOS, but I decided from the reviews that the $48 "speed premium" had a greater chance of producing BH-5/UTT.

Still got the same old Mobo and PSU, but I have my eye on a refurb version of the DFI LP UT SLI-DR, the one I have on my list currently. I know you will say refurb is bad, but this one is $137!! That's like $40 in savings. It's only on my wishlist atm, so should I swap the retail for the refurb? I need opinions here!

In the miscellaneous column, I found Panaflo fans on Newegg. Is that new? I don't remember them before. Getting a 80mm for the side of my case, and 2 120mm for the front. I'm leaving the fan that comes with the case in the back I think, maybe I'll swap it for one of the 120s. I need 2 because if I get watercooling I need 2 for the rad.

I'm also getting AS5 and AS thermal paste remover.

Ah, my case! I decided on the CM Stacker. It looks cool, and it's plenty big enough for my watercooling to fit withOUT modding. That's very important to me. I got the black version.

I get 3 newegg stickers, a mouse (crappy one, but a mouse nonetheless), and a gamepad ($40 value) free with all this!

------------

Soooo, the watercooling.

I'm planning a TDX wb with extra nozzles for maximum cooling for my money.

A maze4 GPU wb with RAM sinks to cool that beastly 7800 when I'm OCing it.

A res so that it's easier to bleed (not much money difference because I'd need a fillport and a T-line to not have a res).

Double heatercore, a.k.a. Bonneville, (120.2) with shroud for good cooling.

Clearflex 60, plastic fittings, a few elbows, MCT -40 water additive (32oz FREE!), a DD sticker, and velcro (to hold pump in place) to round out my order.

I'm missing the pump because I want a Danner Mag and obviously, DD doesn't sell them. My other choice would be a 50z for a bit more money. DD is out of their 50z (both the D5 AND the D4 are out of stock), so I'd have to order from a different site, ug. Plus I'm not sure if I ever went SLI that a 550w psu could hold everything including a pump plugged up to it!

------

So as you can see I'm pretty much set in what I want to order, just thought you guys might like seeing what my new comp is gonna contain. O yeah, about the watercooling. I don't think that I am gonna buy it right away, I will see how everything is going first before buying it. I'm not sure if I want the extra allure of WC in my comp, I'm trying to cut back on my gaming and spend more time in the real world.

i don't konw about prices state-side, however, since i'm not planning on going SLI any time soon, i'm gong with the BFG board since it seems to OC like a champ and is about $70 CDN cheaper than the DFI non-SLI board.

oh yeah: a 10% valvoline zerex racing super colant, 90% distilled water mix is a prooven, high-performance watercooling fluid that works very well and is pretty cheap.

yeah, i was debating keeping the zerex on my list. it's only $4.50 for 8oz, but then there's the whole completely FREE MCT-40 32oz bottle! I might put it back in the future, try them both out or something.

I don't know much about the BFG board. I think that maybe next gen I will go sli, I'm not planning to go sli 7800, but maybe if they get better dual core support/multi-threading I'll buy an X2 and some SLI gpus so I really like where I'm sitting with the DFI board. I heard DDR2 is getting more and more appealing as an option, so I'm wavering slightly, but I admit, I know almost nothing about DDR2 or what motherboards can use it. I was thinking about getting 2 GB of RAM, but in case I want to get DDR2 later on I stuck with 1 GB. I really like the idea of Winbond UTT ram, it sounds really fun. That's why I'm getting the twinMOS, it's a cheap way to do it. And for that to work, I need high voltages, and only DFI gives that w/o a booster (and those are no fun). And of course DFI's need for 24p PSU pretty much forced my hand into the enermax. I love how a lot of the stuff I'm getting is so necessary for other parts to work.

Can BFG's board give the high voltages that DFI's does? If so, then I might just get it. Do they have an SLI version?

edit: ug I've been up forever reading the forums and looking up prices and such. I have to be downstairs if I'm to be online, since my computer broke. I'd probably stay up later if I was in my room, but the kitchen just isn't relaxing enough. :-P Night.

I wouldn't really say this thread belongs here....more of a General Hardware type topic.

I guess it's just me being picky and overly technical...you are talking about overclocking the system, but essentially this thread is about individual hardware choices for a rig that has yet to be built. Not trying to thread crap, just my 2 cents.

thanks. When I made this thread (you will notice it was a while ago, seeing as I've edited the OP at least 10 times...) I wasn't sure where to put it. There didn't seem to really be a place for a whole new computer, just stuff like the graphics cards and cpu forums.

I asked a mod (in the questions/help forum) to move this to general hardware. You know, I have over 100 posts here but I haven't ever been to the general hardware forum. :-P Mostly I hang out in Video cards, AMD procs, Overclocking, watercooling, nVidia flavor, and sometimes memory or (re)sale. Thanks for pointing it out.