Our First - Velocity Micro @ 4GHz

You really need to compare it to a system that you've built with the same specs.

The system you guys reviewed seemed kinda crappy to me. Didnt get the right parts, had to replace a few yourself. It couldnt run at the advertised speeds even. Add to the fact that the company couldnt even handle you guys running a real torture test at the speeds its suppose to be.

Overall: Seems the reviewer wasnt that [H]ard on the company. Many of the issues you had are simply extremely unacceptable to the average buyer. A lot of the people possibly buying these system would not be able to replace the motherboard themselves and would have little clue as to why their new computer is completely unstable. All of those things are indicators of a lacking computer/company to me.
 
I just checked out their web site and got the specs for the “Velocity Raptor 64 DualX”.

Their as listed price is $3795

Going to NewEgg and putting together the exact same system it only cost $2780 – windows and shipping. Oh, and that’s with all retail parts so all the bundled software is included.

Now I’m not a bright man but that comes out to $1015 just to have someone take the fun of building and overclocking a system away from me. :eek:
 
When i see stuff like this it always makes me wonder how the common, everyday schmo would get treated or what kind of service they could expect.

Obviously, if I bought a computer from them...even the top of the line model such as was delivered to the [H]...I highly doubt the "man in charge" would be getting involved if I had problems, or that the lead tech would be assigned to figure out my issues with my video card, random reboots, etc...


First, the need arises from the simple fact that the reviews of full computer systems from popular print magazines, and large on-line e-zines are quite simply lacking in their review depth. They do a disservice to the public they aim to serve by writing a fluff piece drawn from marketing literature that is peppered with one or two worthless synthetic benchmarks. The fact is that these types of reviews do not reflect the information that an individual needs to know when they are contemplating a purchase of this magnitude.
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The main sticking point for any OEM is the level of service they provide their customer.

And to some degree, build quality...you can tell alot about a company simply by taking the side off of a PC. Does the person that built your PC care about what is going to end up in the hands of the customer, or is he just a guy on the assembly line just looking to get the box in front of him on to the QA guy.

Parts are parts are parts. Why should I buy my parts, whether preconfig'd into a system or not, from your company. Company X sells the same thing as you. And Company X also will do it cheaper. Certainly the X850XT PE from your company isn't going to be any better at stock speeds than Company X's X850XT PE. So the whole they run a few meaningless benches vs. the [H]'s extensive suite really doesn't mean a whole lot because if you can find (and you can) another system out there configured similarly, then the results should be the same (within reason...you're not going to find a stock non-overclocked system that has a large enough margin in performance over another, with the same parts, that won't have to have something wrong with one of them to have the large discrepancy).

Sure were all geeks here and we all like to gawk at these monster machines...will I ever see a system reviewed (the actual system) that I would recommend to family. Probably not as this is an enthusiast site and the latest and greatest will be up on the test bench. But that again stresses that since I would probably never recommend the actual PC being reviewed to a family member, I probably would form an opinion of the actual company based on build quality (from pics) and level of service provided (although somewhat skewed) not on the actual system.

I don't know if the above is coherent or even makes a point as it's 3 am my time and I just happen to see the article before hitting the sack :p But I think the focus needs to be shifted towards level of service and build quality, rather than parts or performance so much. And although I have a strong opinion on that, I don't have any answers or suggestions to go in that direction. Well realistic suggestions, you could always just go out and order a PC from an OEM as a regular joe and then report on its build quality and level of service provided you...but if reviewing systems on a regular basis is an objective then that could get very cost prohibitive, very fast.

I hope this new path for the [H] does well, as the mag reviews do leave a lot to be desired. I just hope more focus can be on the actual experience that a customer will have with a particular company, and not so much on the parts that come in the box. And now that I just typed that last sentence I thought to myself...damn...that is really hard to quantify. Good luck. :D


EDIT: Oh yeah, and I thought you guys let them off light on the X850 (non-PE), the temps, and the whole mobo/PS blowout. By the way...what would have been the course of action had that happened to me...do they send me the parts and I install them myself? Probably not, so what happens in the event that it is established that I have a bad piece of hardware?
 
Several hours of testing? For a system with everything OC'd it should sit for the better part of two weeks in continual torture before certifying it to go out of the door. Is the extra 400mhz really worth the aggrivation, or is the guy that came up with the idea of selling factory overclocks getting beat about the head and shoulders as we speak?

The Velocity Micro ProMagix DCX is not a beginner’s PC. A consumer who is looking at purchasing a water cooled and/or overclocked system should at least be familiar with the insides of a PC.
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My take on that is if I am purchasing a system with no monitor, a basic mouse/keyboard combo that costs $4355 I had better have no problems, and expect that if I do have problems to be able to chuck it out of my second floor window to an able bodied company tech that patrolls my neighborhood. The reason people will buy a system like this is to have none of the problems that were discovered during this review.

The only other gripes I have is on the ordering page with all the markeing BS in the support section. It should be written as a TOS. (my guess points to above mentioned person as the culprit)

In summation building an overclocked system for resale is a slippery slope to begin down. The average computer user (even those of us here) end up in six months with a visibly dusty case, and we all know from our years of experience that clogged fans and heatsinks cause far more trouble on a computer that is already running hotter than what the manufacturer intended. I would like to see a full year review on another "non preview" VM system to see if any other problems with cooling/waterblock/thermal compound etc. develop. Daily running of a bleeding edge system takes some work, and as an enthusiast I expect that. As a paying customer I expect none of that.

EDIT:

hardwarephreak said:
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I thought you guys let them off light on the X850 (non-PE), the temps, and the whole mobo/PS blowout. By the way...what would have been the course of action had that happened to me...do they send me the parts and I install them myself? Probably not, so what happens in the event that it is established that I have a bad piece of hardware?
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Again in the instance of the computer being used for what seems to be less than 5 days , another complete system should have been sent out of the door, with the bad system returned. I would also like to know with their one year on site warranty if they employ techs in their sales area that are comfortable with mounting waterblocks and troubleshooting overclocked systems.
 
I just read the system review. First off, I'm impressed with the whole review. To talk indepthly about each secton is nice. Of course, time to focus on the negatives:

1) I'm not sure if you actually told them you're from [H] and you're doing a review on their customer service-- but the founder to actually help you as an actual consumer is pretty much not possible. They basically did all the customer service support for you because they know how much they want to be "advertised" as a great company by [H]. This won't be the same for the consumers.

2) In my book, they pretty much are "less than my expectations". Meaning, they fail to be a respectable company. However, it depends which perspective you're from. If you're going to be the mom/pop user, then it passes because there wouldn't be any torture testing to begin with nor would you keep the computer on for a while. If you're the gamer, you lose a couple of points for not being stable. But if you're the enthusiast, it fails greatly. This site for enthusiasts-- and this review had better be from an enthusiast's perspective.

3) The problems you had are unacceptable. I too would expect them to ship out an entirely new system if there was actually so much parts that needed to be replaced. How could you re-wire the whole system if they sent out a PSU replacement? That didn't make sense to me. To tell the truth, the wiring didn't look that impressive to me. It looked like a "normal" job I would expect off a gaming/overclocked system. And why was it that you had to re-assemble the CPU cooler with some other thermal paste only to find that it reduced your temps to 73 C? They've done a lot of wrong things here.

4) I believe the reviewer was being sympathetic. [H] is not supposed to be. I also did not expect the "point" system either. I liked how Dan from Dan's Data did it-- reviewed it, told the positives / negatives, and simply either recommend it or didn't recomend it. The points meant nothing to me because they are all subjective. Honestly, the entire system and its company felt like a 6 or 7 out of 10 for me. Noise was mentioned there as well-- that would be an entire 2 - 3 points off. But the reviewer took off only 1. This is just to show how pointless the point rating is.

5) How could you compare the performance statistics there? If anything, I would like to see a [H] build vs. a company build. It is truly the only way to duke it out enthusiast-battle. Understandly, it might be cost prohibitive for [H] to build a comparable system (costing over $3,000) but it is a good indicator of performance vs. price and also a good indicator to see if they actually care about your system. I'm sure there are also other alternatives but it's 7 a.m. now. I don't want to think.

6) The best way to test a company is to have yourself order the system through a random name, credit card, location and such and test it that way. Later, inform the company that you reviewed it and post it on the front page. Then they can compensate you for the paid system. But of course, they must want you to review their system first. Just tell them, "We'll buy it, and you compensate us for it." That should keep their company on their toes.

7) The system should be kept and be used as the main system for at least two weeks to a month. This is the true indicator for how your experience should be. More problems can show up, and that means you deal with the technical support more, giving a more realistic overview on their support level. Why not even create problems so they can try to fix it with you? I haven't seen this being done yet.

This should resemble the majority of what enthusiasts expects. Any questions? Ask.

-J.
 
GeForceX covered all points. No need to rewrite them. Points = Too subjective
 
So did they know you guys were going to be reviewing this system? And they still didnot bother to send you one that worked? Even after replacing parts, it still had stability problems?

I mean the point of paying all that extra cash to a builder is so it works right the first time and you dont have to mess with it...what exactly are you getting for the extra money?

I agree GeForceX covered all the points very nicely.

You guys were WAY to easy on them.
 
I know that being on the bleeding edge of hardware/systems things like that CAN and DO happen. What it comes down to is how the companies react to the problem. I feel that they did ok, but as stated above only because they know it was an eval system. I think the point system is fine. 7.5 overall is fair. That tells me that the system was good, but did have some issues.

I know this was the first system eval for the [H], and I can't wait to see more. Plus see the eval that is done mature.
 
Hey guys-

A couple of points:

1) I had the system and used it for well over a month. And believe me, I used it a LOT. I played games well into the night, every night, and on weekends. Ask my wife. ;) I didn't do the torture test until about 2 or 3 weeks into testing, and by then I had used it in almost every way I possibly could.

2) As per the points section being too subjective. Thanks for bringing that up, we will take that into advisement.

3) Failures are an industry standard. Let that sink in for a moment. There are unavoidable industry failure rates anywhere from 1-3% on the components that make up a computer system. Integrate those components together, add extreme modifications, and then add things like death from electrostatic discharge, and you're playing an extremely difficult game on not a lot of margin. I'm not defending Velocity Micro, per se, but the industry in general. I've worked for one of the most respected OEMs in the business, BOXX, and I've done the gauntlet with my own company, and I can tell you mistakes happens. It sucks, and it makes you want to tear your hair out, but what is important at that point is how the company handles it. Granted, Randy Copeland getting involved is not something the every day guy can expect to get, but perhaps that I should have made a greater point of discussing the technical competency of the technicians that I DID speak with. I found them to be very good at their job, and they were authorized to fix my problems. You can't fake knowledge.

4) I should have made note that the waterblock fastening mechanism was difficult to work with and my temperature problems aroused after I reassembled it. So it may have been my fault.

5) The way we get machines is that we are sent one from the company. Ordering a system like this is cost prohibitive, but I agree, that would be awesome if we could do it anonymously.

Thanks for all your feedback. This is our first review, and we will definitely be evaluating ourselves and our process so that we get better in the future.
 
I do understand you could build this system yourself cheaper, not everyone can do that. so they must have someone do it for them. let me ask you this:

if someone asked you to build and support this system for 3 years for them, what would you charge?

RotorHead said:
I just checked out their web site and got the specs for the “Velocity Raptor 64 DualX”.

Their as listed price is $3795

Going to NewEgg and putting together the exact same system it only cost $2780 – windows and shipping. Oh, and that’s with all retail parts so all the bundled software is included.

Now I’m not a bright man but that comes out to $1015 just to have someone take the fun of building and overclocking a system away from me. :eek:
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Zardoz said:
I do understand you could build this system yourself cheaper, not everyone can do that. so they must have someone do it for them. let me ask you this:

if someone asked you to build and support this system for 3 years for them, what would you charge?
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Bingo.
 
Well I'm glad to be around to see the rising of the new forum section and reading the first review on the subject. All in all, all of the points have been covered by other members already, but this is scary to be honest....that much money to have those problems? Like GeForceX said, for this much $$$$ everything should be golden and hand-tested before sent out. Shit, if you can make THIS much of a profit margin from this work, I should start my own and hand test it all and make a pretty penny while building fun stuff. :p

Good review Morley, keep 'em coming.
 
Chris Morley said:
I only docked Velocity Micro one point for failing to answer the phone at midnight on a Friday night. Again, I think that's outside of the norm for their operations, according to the online reviews I have seen of this company and their technical support.
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I'm going to have to dock you 9 points for being home playing with a computer for work on a Friday at midnight! :) lol

Maybe gaming or p0rn surfing would be ok, but benchmarking on a Friday at midnight....

Good review... but for $4400. I think I could build a gold plated computer!!
 
chrisf6969 said:
I'm going to have to dock you 9 points for being home playing with a computer for work on a Friday at midnight! :) lol

Maybe gaming or p0rn surfing would be ok, but benchmarking on a Friday at midnight....

Good review... but for $4400. I think I could build a gold plated computer!!
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I have a wife who's 7 months pregnant...my Friday nights are not the shining examples of unbridled fun and debauchery they used to be... ;)
 
I enjoyed the review,for several reasons.
1) it seemed honest and very much indepth. i liked the parts where the inside of the machine was discussed and evaluated.
2) you were honest in saying that the company probably would not give me the same level of service as they gave you. That goes without saying.
3)you were honest in talking about the problems you encountered and that parts had to be replaced.
4)this was a well written review.
that being said....
I cant believe a company would send out a product for REVIEW that wasnt burned in to the MAX (one thing you might have spoken about was what does the company do to make sure the machine can stand up before they ship it to me??)
The machine was not as advertised??? they sent out the wrong GPU???? shouldnt the QA guy check that off befroe the comp goes in the box???
I cant be that naive in believing that Velocity KNEW you were going to pick this thing apart and yet got some really BUM stuff. I sort of cringe in thinking if I spent >$4000 and my GPU was wrong out of the box and after two weeks my PSU crapped out.....how would I be treated??? would one of those cell-phone tech guys come over and fix this for me???? I think that you should have had the DO JUST THAT....that would punctuate the service question very well.
Since this is the first review its all gonna be new territory and Velocity took a real chance, both with new technology and with a first rate challenging review. You did a nice job....but if it was my $4000 I think I would have blown a gasket to have to replace or repair stuff.
 
Morley said:
Hey guys-

3) Failures are an industry standard. Let that sink in for a moment. There are unavoidable industry failure rates anywhere from 1-3% on the components that make up a computer system. Integrate those components together, add extreme modifications, and then add things like death from electrostatic discharge, and you're playing an extremely difficult game on not a lot of margin.
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I disagree here. If you are paying a price premium for a company built machine, THEY should be doing the testing and making sure it works 100% with a torture test BEFORE they ship it. If its damaged in shipping, thats different. Sounds to me like in this case, they did not test it at all before shipping. For the huge amounts of margins they are making on the hardware, thats unacceptable.

Again, thats just my opinion. I dont mind paying a premium for pre-built hardware, but there needs to be added value. If the added value is not there, why pay extra?
 
Steel Chicken said:
I disagree here. If you are paying a price premium for a company built machine, THEY should be doing the testing and making sure it works 100% with a torture test BEFORE they ship it. If its damaged in shipping, thats different. Sounds to me like in this case, they did not test it at all before shipping. For the huge amounts of margins they are making on the hardware, thats unacceptable.

Again, thats just my opinion. I dont mind paying a premium for pre-built hardware, but there needs to be added value. If the added value is not there, why pay extra?
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Again, while I think there were deficiencies in their burn in methodology, having worked in the systems integration industry for such a long time, I can tell you that I have seen the damndest things when it comes to torturing a system in house and then it not working on site at a customers. It could have been ambient room temperature at VM versus my place (although, at BOXX we had an equipment 'oven' that we tested product at higher temperatures), it could have been a prolonged component failure, you never know. What you need to do is find the best production model that will a) maximize system performance and b) minimize system failures in the field and time to ship. Remember, once someone gives you their credit card, you have a 10-15 day window to get them their product before they get antsy.
 
It should also be noted that I no longer work for an OEM manufacturer of PCs, so there is not any bias in my reviews in terms of competition.
 
Morley said:
Again, while I think there were deficiencies in their burn in methodology, having worked in the systems integration industry for such a long time, I can tell you that I have seen the damndest things when it comes to torturing a system in house and then it not working on site at a customers. It could have been ambient room temperature at VM versus my place (although, at BOXX we had an equipment 'oven' that we tested product at higher temperatures), it could have been a prolonged component failure, you never know. What you need to do is find the best production model that will a) maximize system performance and b) minimize system failures in the field and time to ship. Remember, once someone gives you their credit card, you have a 10-15 day window to get them their product before they get antsy.
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I hear ya, youre preaching to the choir. You still havenot answered my primary question though. If their testing methodologies fall short, and you have to make the thing work, whats the added value? What other value does a system builder give the customer besides pre-selection of components, building the machine, and testing?

if there is no other added value, why did they get such a high rating? What is it a customer would be paying for that would make them go "yeah, but its money well spent"

10-15 days is plenty of time to build it and torture test it. Im guessing they built it and shipped it only. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

Keep in mind, I am NOT against pre-builds. I would never get one for myself, but have had no problems in the past reccomending prebuilds to friends and family. But if its gonna cost more, and WAY more than a self build, there needs to be something gained with that cost. What potential customers are going to look for is quality and customer service. Those things either were not there (quality) or biased (the owner of the company knew it was a [H]Review and made sure he was involved)
 
Again, while I think there were deficiencies in their burn in methodology, having worked in the systems integration industry for such a long time, I can tell you that I have seen the damndest things when it comes to torturing a system in house and then it not working on site at a customers. It could have been ambient room temperature at VM versus my place (although, at BOXX we had an equipment 'oven' that we tested product at higher temperatures), it could have been a prolonged component failure, you never know.
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It should also be noted that I no longer work for an OEM manufacturer of PCs, so there is not any bias in my reviews in terms of competition.
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There is a problem right there...YOUR expectations are VASTLY different than the average joe consumer. Your understanding of the industry and the ins and outs of an OEM integrator allow you to have a much more "realistic" view of what to expect from an OEM simply due to the fact that you have "seen the damndest things". You have to understand what I am getting at if you have been involved in the industry the way you say you have (and I am not saying you haven't). Customers expectations are key, what is the customers expectation when they pay close to 5 grand for a PC. Even the average joe may expect to have the occasional problem from an HP or E-Machine, but the expectation is set that much higher on a PC in the upper eschelons of price/performance.

Your reviews are somewhat tainted due to your knowledge :D I think that also led you to go a bit easier on them having experienced it from thier side. But for someone who hasn't seen it from the other side of the fence, things are different.

If you are paying a price premium for a company built machine, THEY should be doing the testing and making sure it works 100%
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You are paying for testing, but you are also paying for a lengthy support contract...I would forgive the block mount to potential shipping/handling, but if that is to be somewhat expected, I think that should be noted....again I may expect this to happen, but not everyone may.

During my initial testing of various video games on the ProMagix DCX, I noticed that there was texture corruption after about 10 to 15 minutes of gameplay in games like Doom 3 and Far Cry. So naturally I figured that this was the perfect issue to test their tech support with.
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Here is a huge problem right here...any real in house testing would have turned this up. This is not defective hardware, it is a defective QA process. I would not clasify this as one of those "damndest things", I would call that WTF.

I emailed Velocity Micro about this and Randy assured me that the X850XT was just for testing purposes, and it should not have shipped that way.
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This I just don't get...so they QA the system with a different video card than was supposed to actually ship with the PC. Or were they having issues during build and they swapped that card in trying to solve the problem, only to think they had solved it (bad vid card) and then left it in when shipped out?
 
There's just certain things that are not possible. You were given the royal treatment from the company, that just will not happpen to the average person...... ever.

From the review I can tell right now that I wouldnt even lay a hand on a Velocity Micro system.
 
There's one little minor thing I would like to add: Better pictures of the case and wiring. It may be only me but I found it hard to see the inside case. Perhaps this can be a note.

Now about your experience with the OEM field, I can certainly understand and respect that. However, to have it sent out as a review build, they should've at least pre-tested it to some extent. I know you (or they) claim that they pre-test their builds but the way I see it with multiple components failing / unstablized with a single PSU that blew up-- it felt like... a very sloppy job overall.

For this review, you need to take a step back and look at this whole thing as if you were a "kid wanting the best computer of his life" (although a majority of buyers are adults but they are children at heart too! ;)). Do you really think a kid would want this computer build with artifacts happening with a faily noisy computer to find out 3 hours later after playing Doom 3 that their computer suddenly shut down for no apparent reason?

I will share my view of how I received my Alienware. I was only 13. I had minor knowledge in computers at this time. I dreamed of my $4,000 Alienware computer with the best components possible. This should fit me into Velocity Micro's target market of course.

My actual experience was this: I opened up the box, saw lots of bonuses-- a t-shirt, a perfectly wrapped keyboard with a special zip container for the mouse alone and some nice sturdy mousepad! I was already gleeful that I screamed for my dad to get in the room. I set up the system. They had a layout that explained what each part did and how to set them up properly. Then finally, an actual binder with my name on it and benchmark results. I knew I was getting an amazing computer. I boot the computer up and oh my god, it was amazing. I installed a couple of games, especially those intensive games such as Quake 3, and WarCraft III, and some 3D RTS games and played it on for hours on end. I installed many applications and they all ran fast. Then I realized I ordered the "Alien Adrenaline" which can overclock my system. I was scared so I called the tech guy and he answered me within 15 minutes and got all my concerns down. I overclocked it. And played on and on. 3 GHz to 3.45 GHz with a Radeon 9700 Pro to around a 9800 class performing card. I played for hours and I couldn't get off. Surprisingly, there were no artifacts! No crashes! Checking my BIOS, the temps were a little bit too high (50C+) so I knew I had to turn it down. But the point here is that my computer never crashed. Then 2 years later, uh oh, the hard drive failed. I called up Alienware and they let an on-site technician come by my house within the next three days. I was impressed. I was 15 and I knew quite a lot about computers at that time. I asked the on-tech guy questions about everything you could imagine (although I could tell he was getting annoyed by it-- but I was used to it because back then I'd talk a lot!). He replaced my WD 80 GB HDD and I was back on the road again.

Look at the most important emotions I had there-- I was happy, amazed, surprised, felt that someone cared for me and my system, and all in all, I was completely satisfied (and that's an understatement). Even to this day while everyone is using the 3500+ Venice CPU's with 1 GB of RAM of super tight timings with SLI 6800 GT's, I am still using my Alienware system @ P4 3 GHz, 512 MB, 9700 Pro as my actual gaming computer. It can run HL2 and D3 without a hitch as well (at the sacrifice of high resolution and AA/AF of course).

This is a company, I'd recommend to anyone, in a heartbeat. This is a computer I can importantly *RELY* on for the rest of my FOUR YEARS of using it. This is a computer that I expect to still use within my next few years and beyond! This is a computer that should receive respectable high marks, especially for its amazing wiring and cooling.

This is what I want to expect from Velocity Micro. Unfortunately their system did NOT surprise, amaze, satisfy me with the review. And you have to wonder how you gave them a 7.5. But you know what? I too, would be inclined to give it a 7.5 if I had been using it for more than a month as you claim, enjoying its blistering speed after all the problems had been solved.

But not when I have to be the one that fixes it. Where's the on-site technician that should be coming to fix your computer for you? Like the guy who came to replace my 80GB? And I dont think I actually talked to Nelson Gonzales, the CEO of Alienware about any of my problems either-- although I'll give Velocity Micro the benefit of the doubt since they are a "small" company. I could expect to talk to the CEO somehow. And it is also always nice to see that the CEO would have competent knowledge on computer technology. But keep it realistic, he won't be there for 95% of the customers that might have a problem, whether serious or not, to help them out.

Like I said, Velocity Micro simply falls short of my expectations. I believe they did build a great computer. Their components are top notch, but like so many people have said in this thread-- to pay $4,000+ on a system that had major problems is a questionable thing to wonder about. Hell, I bought my Alienware for $4,000 back then-- had I heard about this review, I'd go straight to Alienware first.

My long two cents. :)

-J.
 
I think it was a great first review, just be harder on them next time. I love your writing style though, gives me a very personal experience.
 
I very much agree with what you say. I am "amazed" that Velocity sent out such a poor product when they knew FULL WELL it was going to be REVIEWED. I too have TWO alienware computers that did just what you said above. I also believe "shit happens" but it should for the most part happen in the shop not at my house,after spending $4000. I can also,for the most part figure stuff out,but what about that little kid who just got the new comp with the artifacts RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX???? Review=7.5/10 Product=5/10. And no, the CEO of alienware,ford,lowes or home depot never calls me when I have a problem.
 
Excellent review. I would like to know what other manufacturers are you reviewing? It would be nice if the [H] had the opportunity to review machines from the "big 3" boutique builders: Falcon NW, Alienware, and Voodoo PC.
 
I think that maybe the condition that they sent us the machine in shows the thoroughness of testing that has been going on in the industry. Had Chris not used it to really play games on for extended periods of time or put it through some stress testing, we would have likely not seen the issues we uncovered.

That said, for those of that think we were "too easy" on VM, well there are some things to be considered there as well.

1. I don't think we were too easy on them, but I do know for sure that we went out of our way not to draw back, bust their chops, and just make them look bad. They are NOT a bad company and quite frankly I don't think they knew what they might be getting into with HardOCP, so I have to dole out some kudos that they even stepped up to the plate.

2. Had we gone out of our way to be "ugly" about things, I can surely tell you that we would be shunned by this end of the industry and it is very likely that our goal of doing better system reviews and working within that industry would be shattered.

3. While surely the verbiage could have been a bit harsher, there is NOTHING addressed here in the comments that we left out of the article. The biggest complaint I see is that we were not "mean" about things and the bottom line is doing that is not going to accomplish the things we need to accomplish in order to get our readers the down to earth system information that we want to supply.

4. Off the topic of being to easy on them, we are finding a lot of suggestions here that we will take to heart. On the support issue, by the time I found out that Randy was involved it was too late. I would have never allowed him to get involved in the review had it been left up to my decision. There are just some things here that Chris and I are going to have to fine tune....better REAL WORLD support coverage being one of them. We did not expect ourselves to be perfect the first time out.

Overall, I gave ourselves a B- for our first evaluation.
 
GeForceX said:
Hell, I bought my Alienware for $4,000 back then-- had I heard about this review, I'd go straight to Alienware first.
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Then we accomplished exactly what we set out to do and that is give you the information you need to make your best decision.
 
Mons said:
Excellent review. I would like to know what other manufacturers are you reviewing? It would be nice if the [H] had the opportunity to review machines from the "big 3" boutique builders: Falcon NW, Alienware, and Voodoo PC.
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Voodoo PC was supposed to be our first box, but we could never sync up on getting it here at the right time.

Gateway is our next system, then likely a VoodooPC. We want to hit them ALL.
 
GeForceX said:
Anonymously, right? ;)

-J.
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My goal is to do 60 system reviews next year. I don't think that will be accomplished anonymously.
 
You will very likely seen HardOCP's index page split into a portal of sorts to allow for us to diversify the content even more beyond what is discussed here.
 
GeForceX said:
Sixty system reviews BY next year? That wouldn't be possible...

One system used for a month, adding to the write up should be at least a month for each...

You could do 12 systems at most, but 60? Unless you hire quite a lot of people (make sure they're at least qualified to do such reviews though).

-J.
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Thanks again for your opinions. I am very much aware what it would take to do 60 system reviews in the space of one year. And yes, it is very much possible. And thanks for you incredible insight on hiring people that are actually qualified.
 
I agree with GeForceX about the end user experience. I think the scoring should be rethought. Here's my take on it.

Build Quality - 8/10

A point was taken off because the wrong video card shipped in the system and another point was taken off because the system was loud.

I would score a big fat zero for this section. The main reason is because that new $4500 system needed a motherboard and power supply swap. I would not consider a system to be a "quality system" if it fails during testing. If that system gets an 8 I would really like to see the system that scores lower than that.

Gaming - 7/10

I would not include the video card issue in this section as I believe that is more a build issue than gamming performance issue. I would use this section just for comparing to other systems with the same video card as well as other video cards.

Technical Support - 9/10

Did you actually talk to someone in tech support?

Stability - 6/10

The system ran hot so over time and some dust the system could overheat.

Artifacting in game due to the video card being too far over clocked from the factory.


The system physically failed during testing. Again, I don't see how the system could score higher than zero in this section.

The Bottom Line - 7.5/10

I think that a full build system has some advantages over one built your self. You don't have to spend the time building it, don't have to spend time troubleshooting, and you get tech support. During the review the system shipped with stability problems, the system physically failed, and you were unable to reach tech support. Since the bottom line is not the sum of the individual section scores I would score a zero because it did not meet the primary needs for purchasing a prebuilt system.

Maybe I'm a little crazy with the scoring but I work at a computer store. I sell systems, build systems, and have to talk to customers when things go wrong. A physical failure right out of box is unacceptable.

Kyle, I give you guys an A+ for taking the time and effort to start reviewing full systems. It's nice to compare a self built computer to a big name computer.
 
Skrying said:
No offense, but that would SUCK ASS. Sorry, but it really would.
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And to think we would lose your incredibly meaningful and thoughtful posting saddens me. :p
 
Moved from: Suggestions for HardOCP Eval Process

Velocity_Micro said:
Chris and Kyle,

I really enjoyed the review, and think you were dead on for knocking us for the failed motherboard (the v-regs were fried, but the PSU ultimately tested fine when it arrived back) and the wrong video card. The motherboard was a pre-production part, and the video card was also a pre-production testing mule we were using to build the numerous 840XE review units that went out while we waited for a shipment of the X850XT PE. That card was never to be shipped in any system, and we would certainly not expect to get that glaring fault past you guys. It was pure stupidity on our part. The unanswered support call was particularly embarrassing, but we discovered a phone system forwarding error at our service provider was the cause of that and was already fixed that weekend.

All were major failures on our part, and we deserved the scores. These are explanation, not excuses. Nuff said.

As for sending Chris a new board and PSU, it was after discussing the options with him and letting him decide how to fix the issue. Also available to him were returning the system to us for the repairs or having a local repair contractor visit him and install the new parts. Any customer would also have these options available to them, in accordance with our standard warranty coverage. This allows experienced user to fix problems themselves, while noobs are also taken care of with a little more hand holding.

I originally told Kyle how we were terrified to send a review to [H] and these are exactly the reasons why. You didn’t miss a thing. While I sincerely plead that all three of these missteps are anomalies that are way beyond our normal standards, I’m glad to let you decide. We are still happy to provide another review unit - anything you want next time to meet any price range. This time buy it anonymously and I guaranty to honor our return policy without the usual restocking fees. That’s the only way you can experience what any other buyer gets.

Thanks for the fair coverage.

Randy Copeland
President & CEO
Velocity Micro, Inc.

PS - I get involved in many customer support issues regularly, not just for reviewers. I also love answering sales calls - at least one or two everyday. I’m an enthusiast first.
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I also would like to see some better pictures of the case and the way the WC was done.
 
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