A question for new Storm purchasers...

X

Xylo

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
421
Just got my Storm in a day or two ago...it looks great.

I was wondering so far what people had found about the surface of the bottom plate? Fairly flat? (Or should be lapped?)

Personally, mine looks nice, but has a little bit of, I don't know...smudges? on it...I think it may just be from the plastic it was wrapped in. Just a little discoloration on half of the beveled copper. Similar to fingerprints, but more significant...
I'll probably just try some ArcticClean on it?...
 
Do not lap the base-plate, you will only make it less flat. Just clean it up with some isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol and a soft cloth.
 
Forget the smudges, but if they bother you get some citric acid and take it off. Revere instant stainless and copper pot cleaner works good too. If you clean make sure that you wash it off with copious amount of H20 and only handle it with latex gloves, otherwise the sweat from your fingers will corrode the copper again.

If you want to find out if the block needs lapping then take a straight edge and lay it across the bottom and check it again 90 degrees apart. Should be flat, but if it isn't then do a search for "lapping waterblocks" in this forum as Cathar had some very good suggestions in this area. :)
 
Yeah, I sort've guessed still being "factory direct" so to speak, that it was likely more flat than I'd be able to make it by hand anyway....
 
I don't have any plain isopropyl around, but I know I still have some Arcticlean 1&2...I forget what the base ingredients are...just use that instead?..
 
Citric acid (i.e. lemon juice) or Revere Instant Stainless Steel and Copper cleaner. Get it at any department store or go ask the chef of the house. ;) The AS stuff is for getting blocks clean of TIM.
 
Arcticlean2 is Citrus based, but it won't clean that tarnish on the bottom of the Storm block. I used Tarn-X on my storms, which is great for Sterling Silver, Silver Plate, Platinum, Copper and Gold. but i didn't use it on the cpu contact area....
 
Hmm...well, as I will never see the bottom once mounted, if it isn't going to hurt the effectiveness in anyway, I probably won't bother...
 
Xylo said:
Hmm...well, as I will never see the bottom once mounted, if it isn't going to hurt the effectiveness in anyway, I probably won't bother...
Click to expand...

The smudges won't make to much of a difference. The degree of flatness can cause problems. I saw a thread IIRC on OC Forums where a G5 came with a concave surface. Now this isn't particularly unusual as I recently got a AC Cuplex XT silver edition with the same "problem." After finding the problem I decided to fix it by lapping the block. Some people will do this lapping thing till they get a mirror finish by going to 1500 to 2000 grits. I decided what I really wanted most was a reasonably flat surface and only went to about 1200 grit and ended up with a satin finish on the bottom. I decided that I would stone the outside peripheral surface to end up with a highly polished silver surface for some bling though.
 
It turns out the "smudges" aren't as superficial as I thought. In fact, they appear to actually be partially some discoloration in the copper itself?? It seems to eminate from two of the corners on one side...sort've almost a rainbow'ing discoloration like I've seen on other metals, but not *quite* the same....there's also one significant smudge not near that area that I can't get off with just alcohol/rubbing/soft cloth....It looks like it would be a gummy residue, but not sure now.

Any advice?
a) Ignore it, it won't make a difference?
b) Try a different cleaner?
c) Send it back to Swiftech/whoever?
d) Lap it?

(Naturally would like to avoid C or D...)
 
Top Nurse said:
The smudges won't make to much of a difference. The degree of flatness can cause problems. I saw a thread IIRC on OC Forums where a G5 came with a concave surface. Now this isn't particularly unusual as I recently got a AC Cuplex XT silver edition with the same "problem." After finding the problem I decided to fix it by lapping the block. Some people will do this lapping thing till they get a mirror finish by going to 1500 to 2000 grits. I decided what I really wanted most was a reasonably flat surface and only went to about 1200 grit and ended up with a satin finish on the bottom. I decided that I would stone the outside peripheral surface to end up with a highly polished silver surface for some bling though.
Click to expand...

Well, as it's brand new, and I'm guessing whatever manufacturing process Swiftech was using is top-notch, as I would guess -- and according to Cathar, who I would believe in this respect over any other -- it's going to be flatter now than I'd be able to make it. So I've avoided lapping....
 
Have you tried using a commercial copper/brass cleaner? Or, in a pinch, vinegar and/or lemon juice?
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Have you tried using a commercial copper/brass cleaner? Or, in a pinch, vinegar and/or lemon juice?
Click to expand...

I have lemon juice...not sure about vinegar...

I wish I had a digital camera to take a picture of this and post it...it's this weird discoloration of the copper from two sides....rainbow pattern, so I would've guessed oil contamination from the plastic it was wrapped in, but I'd have to ask one of my materials sciences friends to confirm that....could easily be wrong.

In any case, I'll probably try to buy some copper cleaner, but:
a) I hate to buy something that I will very possibly use once in my entire life
b) I am concerned with scratching it up with trying to clean this stuff and making it less efficient (although, this is probably a non-issue, I know)
 
Just leave it be man. Discoloration is normal, it is oxidation and makes no bit of difference in cooling. If it really bugs you, get some KETCHUP and rub the base with it, it cleans copper very well.
 
nikhsub1 said:
Just leave it be man. Discoloration is normal, it is oxidation and makes no bit of difference in cooling. If it really bugs you, get some KETCHUP and rub the base with it, it cleans copper very well.
Click to expand...

ketchup? Hmmm.....tomatos, salt, vinegar...vinegar....ah, thats acetic acid. Just use acetic acid? =)
 
DogChainX said:
ketchup? Hmmm.....tomatos, salt, vinegar...vinegar....ah, thats acetic acid. Just use acetic acid? =)
Click to expand...
tomatos are natually acidic, there is more than just acetic acid from the vinagar in there.

all in all......if it's flat, and there are no oxide deposits right over the core, you should probably just leave it.

if it's not flat......i think that cathar and some end-users should be talking to swiftech QC/QA immediately.
 
Xylo said:
Well, as it's brand new, and I'm guessing whatever manufacturing process Swiftech was using is top-notch, as I would guess -- and according to Cathar, who I would believe in this respect over any other -- it's going to be flatter now than I'd be able to make it. So I've avoided lapping....
Click to expand...

The only easy way to find out it's flatness is to get a piece of very flat metal stock and actually check it by sight and or leaf gauges. There are other ways, but that gets into some exotic test equipment. Just because Swiftech made it doesn't mean that it is flat. Everybody has manufacturing problems and 100% QC is impossible for the kind of money most people are willing to pay. As I pointed out even a Cathar G5 turned up with a concave base recently and my silver Cuplex XT was the same way, so it can happen.

As far as the color goes if it doesn't go away with copper cleaner then it is probably caused by heat during the machining process. Usually rainbow patterns are heat related and heat warps metal. ;)
 
Top Nurse said:
Just because Swiftech made it doesn't mean that it is flat. Everybody has manufacturing problems and 100% QC is impossible for the kind of money most people are willing to pay. As I pointed out even a Cathar G5 turned up with a concave base recently
Click to expand...

Is this the thread you are talking about?: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=395114

If so, it sounds to me like the problem is due to the maleability of the silver used for G5s...and as I'm using the copper G4s, I don't think it's a problem.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any method of testing the flatness of the block to any level that I'd be satisfied with...heh.
 
Top Nurse said:
. . . . . Just because Swiftech made it doesn't mean that it is flat. . . . .
Click to expand...
are you running off at the mouth ?
or do you have an actual example you know of ?

not asking for your assessment of probability, just a single example (or more) to substantiate your assertion above

if you cannot cite an example, you are flapping your lips for the sound
 
I just got mine, and I know what you mean... but you must remember...

smudges, discolouration etc etc does not mean it's not flat!

Do not expect waterblocks to be shiny as you see on these online reviews and after people have lapped them to death and stuck brasso on it!

shiny is actually not as good (but in this contexy negligible) when conducting heat.

Unless you have the proper equipment to test for a perfectly flat surface, don't go trying to lap it and shine it up!

from reading the replies here, it seems that some know and some don't... but don't be fooled by the colour, smudges or anything aesthetic... shiny does not equal flat.

but if you want some advice.. try not to touch the base with oily fingertips if you want to keep the base nice and pristine... it'll get you more paranoid than before.. and take the advice or using alcohol based cleaners as mentioned.
 
J-Pepper said:
I just got mine, and I know what you mean... but you must remember...
Click to expand...

So is it just oxidation on yours?...or is it something else?...maybe something from the packaging?


J-Pepper said:
Do not expect waterblocks to be shiny as you see on these online reviews and after people have lapped them to death and stuck brasso on it!
Click to expand...

I actually don't really expect it to be perfectly shiny, at all...


J-Pepper said:
Unless you have the proper equipment to test for a perfectly flat surface, don't go trying to lap it and shine it up!
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I haven't... :)


J-Pepper said:
from reading the replies here, it seems that some know and some don't... but don't be fooled by the colour, smudges or anything aesthetic... shiny does not equal flat.
Click to expand...

See, to me, "smudges" mean foreign material...perhaps I'm just not being clear. There definitely appears to be one small spot where when it was transported the plastic really stuck to it maybe a bit too much? (It's been super hot up here lately)

J-Pepper said:
but if you want some advice.. try not to touch the base with oily fingertips if you want to keep the base nice and pristine... it'll get you more paranoid than before.. and take the advice or using alcohol based cleaners as mentioned.
Click to expand...

Rubbing alcohol did nothing.


In the end, I'll probably do nothing. I might try some brass/copper cleaner on it, but I'm afraid of just scratching it at all...heh.
 
I had the same problem with a Swiftech block, I dipped the base in ketchup and let it sit for about 5 minutes. All shiney and smudge free....I figure if it is safe for copper cookware, why not?
 
mikehotel said:
I had the same problem with a Swiftech block, I dipped the base in ketchup and let it sit for about 5 minutes. All shiney and smudge free....I figure if it is safe for copper cookware, why not?
Click to expand...

Ok, sounds like a plan...heh. Did you use anything when wiping off / removing the ketchup?...or just water and a cloth?...or?
 
BillA said:
are you running off at the mouth ?

if you cannot cite an example, you are flapping your lips for the sound
Click to expand...

LMAO!! You just made me spray beer all over the place!!
:D
 
I'll probably clean it off w/ some ketchup in a day or two...
 
Not sure if I have any regular (non-balsamic?) vinegar around, I'll have to check...
 
Just use the balsamic and toss it all in some nice greens :D
If you have one available, use a gun cleaning kit on your tubes...it'll scrub em clean.
On 2nd thought, that just reminded me of my friend getting swabbed for the clap.
 
BillA said:
are you running off at the mouth ?
or do you have an actual example you know of ?

not asking for your assessment of probability, just a single example (or more) to substantiate your assertion above

if you cannot cite an example, you are flapping your lips for the sound
Click to expand...

Jeez you are touchy! Since you decided to quote me I will re-post what was said in it's entirety:

"The only easy way to find out it's flatness is to get a piece of very flat metal stock and actually check it by sight and or leaf gauges. There are other ways, but that gets into some exotic test equipment. Just because Swiftech made it doesn't mean that it is flat. Everybody has manufacturing problems and 100% QC is impossible for the kind of money most people are willing to pay. As I pointed out even a Cathar G5 turned up with a concave base recently and my silver Cuplex XT was the same way, so it can happen"

So what is it you are upset about? I didn't say that I had seen anything. I simply said that if Swiftech made it doesn't mean that it is flat. Now if you take that as a slur on Swiftech then have a nice life. :rolleyes:
 
Bill is referring to Swiftech's impeccable quality control with respect to base flatness.

Do a search on any forum anywhere in the last 4-5 years and try to find a user report on a non-flat Swiftech shipped product.

You're attacking Swiftech's quality control which on this matter has been demonstrated to be second to none, and with what appears to be a perfect track record (with regards to base-plate flatness).

Now unless you can cite a single example where Swiftech actually shipped out a non-flat base-plated product, then yes, you are indeed perpetrating an unjustified slur on Swiftech.
 
Well I never intended to make any slurs on Swiftech. Just pointing out that even the best companies in the world sometimes have less than stellar goods. Some recent examples are my Aqua Computer Silver XT, those DDC a while back, and that G5 on the OC Forum. I just have come to the conclusion lately that it is better to check what you got and be happy there isn't a problem than having a problem and not knowing about it.
 
Again, it sounds like the problem w/ the G5 was related to the fact that silver is soft, right?...and that's not something that's going to be changing anytime soon?... ;)
 
Xylo said:
Again, it sounds like the problem w/ the G5 was related to the fact that silver is soft, right?...and that's not something that's going to be changing anytime soon?... ;)
Click to expand...

Have found two ways to solve the problem, and will be implementing both in the next lot.
 
Cathar said:
Have found two ways to solve the problem, and will be implementing both in the next lot.
Click to expand...
That's good to know! Can I order a new base? my g5 is a little concave...
 
Cathar said:
Have found two ways to solve the problem, and will be implementing both in the next lot.
Click to expand...

Wish I had the cash to buy one... ;)

Especially after now trying a little metal cleaner on my Storm while tired and had had a drink the other night and now it looks worse than before... :( ....not much so, but noticeable to me at least....still haven't tried the ketchup thing, but since I still don't even have my rig near ready to put together yet still...sigh.
 
CAD OC'er said:
That's good to know! Can I order a new base? my g5 is a little concave...
Click to expand...

Actually the issue is all solved via the middle plate, and not the base-plate.

If your block is a little concave, then lapping it while assembled will solve the issue.
 
Some of us have been doing a little experimenting with our Aquastream pumps and initial results show about one (1) GPM flow in a closed 6mm system (no blocks) and about 1/2 GPM with a Cuplex XT. Do you think this would have enough flow to run the G4/G5 coolers?
 
"One of the design goals for the Storm was to produce a waterblock that could provide good performance, even when used with weak pumps and/or small ID tubing in low-flow applications. I believe the test results presented in this review prove that the Storm in fact has very successfully met this objective. – RoboTech "

Read the complete review here where Lee tested it down to .5 GPM

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_storm-01.html
 
Here is a small quote from said review:

"At very low flow rates (<0.5 GPM) a couple waterblocks may actually perform as good, or better than the Storm (Koolance CPU-300 and Swiftech MCW6002 for example)."

IIRC, Cathar also said something similar to this in a post on these forums.

TN, is that 6mm id, and how many feet of tubing?
 
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