When Water Cooling Goes Bad... (56k Warning)

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willie92

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
296
OK, so I built my first water cooling set up in September last year. It was primarily built from a dtek kit and featured their spiral waterblock. All was well until a couple of months ago. I started to notice some random lock ups and the nVidia software was telling me that my BFG 5900XT card wasn't getting enough power. I thought maybe my PSU was just bringing it weak. Then the system reset and wouldn't wouldn't post. I've got (or had) an Abit NF-7S r2 which has onboard LEDs to show when the mobo is getting power and so it was getting power, but wouldn't post. When I took the case side off, I found this:

crackedblock.jpg


Water wasn't spewing everywhere, just kinda dripping onto the videocard. That, in and of itself, wasn't the problem because there wasn't enough water to cause much of a problem. The problem was time. Because over time, the small amount of water ran from the videocard into the AGP slot and corroded some of the pins. I tried to get some pictures of the AGP slot, but they didn't come out. But this is the effect on the videocard:

cardfront.jpg


Even though BFG has a lifetime warranty, I don't think they're going to be replacing this one! I tested out another AGP video card and the system wouln't post either. But I put in an PCI video card and it booted up fine! So the AGP slot is fried.

On the positive side, this gives me an excuse to upgrade (thanks to HardOCP's $1000 guide) to:

Asus A8N-SLI Premium
AMD 64 3500 (Venice Core)
1 GB of Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PT
MSI NX6800GT-T2D256E

This time I'm replacing the water block with a chrome PolorFlo TT. I don't know if anyone else has had problems with waterblocks with acryllic tops, but I won't be buying acryllic topped waterblocks again!
 
Any idea how that nasty crack came about? This is beginning to make me worry....
 
Man that sucks. You're probably right about the warrenty too. Usually companies will honor their warrenty if the damage is caused by normal everyday use, and not something that is the result of human error or damage caused from another outside source.
 
CoW]8(0) said:
Any idea how that nasty crack came about? This is beginning to make me worry....
Click to expand...

I really think it was a flaw in the design. You notice how one barb is centered on the block, but the other barb is in the corner? The center barb has the support of the whole acryllic top, but the other barb only has a small amount of the corner to support it. I may have also made the tube connecting it to the pump too short. I'm guessing that created downward pressure on the barb and since there wasn't that much acryllic in the corner to support it, it eventually cracked.

Regardless, it's made me very wary of acryllic topped water blocks, but that's just me...
 
Why don't you contact dtek. They should refund you your money or replace it.

I would get a Storm to replace that though.
 
Ouch! Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

This is why water cooling and case windows are made for eachother, IMO.
 
Case windows do not always work though. I've got a huge server case that sits next to my desk and there's no way I could put a case window and put the case where I could see it. Constant TLC is the way to go!
 
Have you tried cleaning the contacts on the video card? Probably can salvage the card with some light steel wool if it didnt lift the contacts off the PCB. Im not sure how to clean the agp slot, but dont they make a chemical spray to clean copper contacts of corrosion?



 
My guess is that the barbs or the retention screws are overtightened. I don't see any teflon tape but that has caused problems for me before when using acrylic parts. I had identical cracks (one running between the barbs, one from one barb to one of the screws) on a Criticool WaterPlant res. Came about from overtightening the barbs.

I had to buy three of them. The first I cracked while installing the barbs, the second cracked a few weeks later as the barb expanded from the heat of the cooling loop, then the third worked without problem.

If you're going to use acylic parts, use plastic barbs.

"I built it, just the same, just to show them. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one, that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up."
 
Sorry to see that happen to ya, but hey at least you were optimistic about your upgrade :)
 
BellaCroix said:
My guess is that the barbs or the retention screws are overtightened. I don't see any teflon tape but that has caused problems for me before when using acrylic parts. I had identical cracks (one running between the barbs, one from one barb to one of the screws) on a Criticool WaterPlant res. Came about from overtightening the barbs.

I had to buy three of them. The first I cracked while installing the barbs, the second cracked a few weeks later as the barb expanded from the heat of the cooling loop, then the third worked without problem.

If you're going to use acylic parts, use plastic barbs.

"I built it, just the same, just to show them. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one, that one sank into the swamp. So I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up."
Click to expand...

Wow, I had no idea acrylic could crack so easily. Maybe I should switch my plans from a clear acrylic top (cheaper) to a brass top (+$5.00). I'm surprised the barbs could expand enough to crack the lucite. I assumed manufacturers would have foreseen and corrected this problem.
 
Thanks really sucks. I personally have never had a acrylic top crack. My guess would be that the fitting was overtightened when installed. The cracks are radially coming off that one fitting. Guess that is why DangerDen uses a non NPT fitting with an O-ring. Hate to see a fellow watercooler have trouble.

Good luck on your next setup. Should be a good combo. ;)
 
you might be able to clean the contacts with a pencil eraser, or even a q-tip and rubbing alc.
 
The only way to fix the AGP slot will be to unsolder the connector and put on a new one. Not terribly difficult if you are handy with a soldering gun and some solder wick. The card itself is repairable. Go down to an electronics shop (not RS) and ask for some circuit board trace repair supplies. Go home and spend a few hours and save yourself a few hundred bucks :D

Watercooling without a window is not too good an idea unless you have rock solid watercooling skills. It also pays to check every once in a while to make sure everything is copasetic. It is called Preventive Maintenance....

Please don't be scared about acrylic tops as this appears to be a classic case of installation error. The best watercooling thread bar none is the BSPP thread and corresponding fittings. Just Say No to NPT :p
 
CoW]8(0) said:
Wow, I had no idea acrylic could crack so easily. Maybe I should switch my plans from a clear acrylic top (cheaper) to a brass top (+$5.00). I'm surprised the barbs could expand enough to crack the lucite. I assumed manufacturers would have foreseen and corrected this problem.
Click to expand...

I'm sure a lot of it was intallation error. The amount the barb expanded was probably so minimal that if I did everything exactly right it wouldn't have happened. However I've now set a rule that if I'm putting a barb or compression fitting into something I only use metal in metal or platic in plastic. Since starting that rule I haven't had a single problem with cracking plexi.
 
Rustedimpala said:
Have you tried cleaning the contacts on the video card? Probably can salvage the card with some light steel wool if it didnt lift the contacts off the PCB. Im not sure how to clean the agp slot, but dont they make a chemical spray to clean copper contacts of corrosion?
Click to expand...

Zombie said:
you might be able to clean the contacts with a pencil eraser, or even a q-tip and rubbing alc.
Click to expand...

I have tried cleaning the contacts with both a contact cleaner pen and with some contact cleaner spray on stuff that I got from RS. Didn't work as well as I thought it would. I got some of it off, but not all of it.

I didn't try steel wool though--that might do the trick!
 
Top Nurse said:
The only way to fix the AGP slot will be to unsolder the connector and put on a new one. Not terribly difficult if you are handy with a soldering gun and some solder wick. The card itself is repairable. Go down to an electronics shop (not RS) and ask for some circuit board trace repair supplies. Go home and spend a few hours and save yourself a few hundred bucks :D

Watercooling without a window is not too good an idea unless you have rock solid watercooling skills. It also pays to check every once in a while to make sure everything is copasetic. It is called Preventive Maintenance....

Please don't be scared about acrylic tops as this appears to be a classic case of installation error. The best watercooling thread bar none is the BSPP thread and corresponding fittings. Just Say No to NPT :p
Click to expand...

I appreciate the advice, but I don't think I'm up for unsoldering and resoldering a new AGP slot. My solder skills just aren't that good.

I'll try to find some of the trace repair supplies and give that a go. That way maybe I can get the video card working again and sell it on eBay to help offset the cost of my new system (everything is already ordered).

I may touch base with dtek and ask about a refund. The waterblock came with the barbs already attached, so I did nothing to them except attach the tubing.

And the case is going to have a window, but I'm having it custom cut (look for an future post called Project Blue Book ;) )
 
BellaCroix said:
My guess is that the barbs or the retention screws are overtightened. I don't see any teflon tape but that has caused problems for me before when using acrylic parts. I had identical cracks (one running between the barbs, one from one barb to one of the screws) on a Criticool WaterPlant res. Came about from overtightening the barbs.
Click to expand...

what other option are there besides acrylic water cooler?
 
WOW!!!!! From one water-cooler to another, my condolences.

Note to self: don't EVER get an acrylic top! ;)
 
I had the same probs as stated, but the thing it that to me it happened when just testing the setup, so heat/expanding wasent the problem with me, nor was overtightening, as it was actually just turned in by hand (had teflontape on the thread)

The problem i had was the mixture i use (water and 10% automotive premixed coolant,which is just water with coolant already mixed in, so my mix was just 4-5 % coolant in total)

I tested it by putting the cracked lid into the coolant overnight, and it ended up all cracked and not clear(dont know the word for that) opaque???

So maybe check the coolant u used
(Doesnt seem the case here, this is just bad construction i think) but let this post serve as a heads up to anyone.
 
AACDIRECT said:
Thanks really sucks. I personally have never had a acrylic top crack. My guess would be that the fitting was overtightened when installed. The cracks are radially coming off that one fitting. Guess that is why DangerDen uses a non NPT fitting with an O-ring. Hate to see a fellow watercooler have trouble.
Click to expand...
You really think Danger Den was the one who started using the O-ring design? LOL

Lets also remember the $piral is a three year old block which has had no upgrades.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
You really think Danger Den was the one who started using the O-ring design? LOL

Lets also remember the $piral is a three year old block which has had no upgrades.
Click to expand...

I think DD was one of the last gaspers for NPT threads. Instead of then going to the international standard of BSPP they designed their own spec and added an O-Ring. :rolleyes:
 
Top Nurse said:
I think DD was one of the last gaspers for NPT threads. Instead of then going to the international standard of BSPP they designed their own spec and added an O-Ring. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

BSPP/T is a british standard... in europe they use something similar but prefix the size with G and R.

NPT are US standards, thus each are correct as DD is a US manufacturer and AC (for which I assume you quote) uses G1/4" which is similar or the same as a BSPP metric size.
 
J-Pepper said:
BSPP/T is a british standard... in europe they use something similar but prefix the size with G and R.

NPT are US standards, thus each are correct as DD is a US manufacturer and AC (for which I assume you quote) uses G1/4" which is similar or the same as a BSPP metric size.
Click to expand...

The whole world uses BSPP threads because they work and politics has nothing to do with it for certain uses. BSPP threads are parallel pipe threads and NPT is a tapered pipe thread. The term G x/x is simply a designation for a BSPP thread. So if someone says that they are using a G 1/8 thread you would know that they are specifying a 1/8 BSPP thread class. If someone calls out a "R" thread spec then they are saying that they have specified a BSPT or British Standard Pipe thread which is also a tapered thread like NPT.
 
Iv'e only heard of this problem with acrylic. Was wondering if anyone has had problems with polycarbonate tops. I am making a top from polycarbonate because of the acrylic issues, hope polycarbonate does not suffer the same flaws...
 
plywood99 said:
Iv'e only heard of this problem with acrylic. Was wondering if anyone has had problems with polycarbonate tops. I am making a top from polycarbonate because of the acrylic issues, hope polycarbonate does not suffer the same flaws...
Click to expand...

It won't so long as you use a BSPP thread. McMaster Carr sells BSPP taps off the shelf here in the USA. :D

I think the problem is that DD (and others) probably don't change their taps out frequently enough and the threads become undersize. These kinds of materials are really abrasive and eat up taps like crazy unless you use specially made taps with the correct geometry and specialized coatings.
 
Scroatdog said:
WOW!!!!! From one water-cooler to another, my condolences.

Note to self: don't EVER get an acrylic top! ;)
Click to expand...

I use an acrylic top on my Maze4 CPU cooler. Works just fine. I tightned them pretty good too. It works really well and I haven't had a problem with it even after wiggling it around A LOT. Keeps the CPU at 22-25C idle on my system according to the system bios. Nothign wrong with the acrylic top as far as i'm concerned.
 
Top Nurse said:
It won't so long as you use a BSPP thread. McMaster Carr sells BSPP taps off the shelf here in the USA. :D

I think the problem is that DD (and others) probably don't change their taps out frequently enough and the threads become undersize. These kinds of materials are really abrasive and eat up taps like crazy unless you use specially made taps with the correct geometry and specialized coatings.
Click to expand...


Well, I've already got my tops ordered in for npt threads. As for the abrasive thing causing threads to become undersized, not too sure about that. Seems the tap's cutting edge should become dull, not decrease in size to a measurable decree. It would be the dulling of the cutting edge that would cause problems, aka, thread valleys not being sharp and pointed like they should be for npt.

Heh, come to think about it, I think that is what you were getting at....

And yes, my npt barbs are coming from MasterCarr...
 
bboynitrous said:
I use an acrylic top on my Maze4 CPU cooler. Works just fine. I tightned them pretty good too. It works really well and I haven't had a problem with it even after wiggling it around A LOT. Keeps the CPU at 22-25C idle on my system according to the system bios. Nothign wrong with the acrylic top as far as i'm concerned.
Click to expand...


Acrylic is fine, just not as "Fool-Proof" as other materials. Some folks don't understand how to properly tighten barbs and such, they go for the overkill route, usually causing the many problems you read of.
 
That's why BSPP is thee winner :D It doesn't seal on the threads, but on the O-ring sitting in a grooved shoulder. And the O-rings are replacable...
 
Nice try, but no cigar...

And what do you think the G5 comes with? Last time I asked Cathar it was a 3/8 BSPP. :p
 
R1ckCa1n said:
You really think Danger Den was the one who started using the O-ring design? LOL

Lets also remember the $piral is a three year old block which has had no upgrades.
Click to expand...

I did not say DD started the use of an O-ring. I just said this problem was the reason behind it. The thread size they use is not custom. In the US NPT is very common; other thread styles are very hard to get. I bought a tap for the DD thread pattern. The damn thing was $90!! Most taps that size are not even close to that expensive or as difficult to find.
 
Top Nurse said:
Nice try, but no cigar...

And what do you think the G5 comes with? Last time I asked Cathar it was a 3/8 BSPP. :p
Click to expand...
Maybe his self made blocks, but not the Swiftech block..................READ the product discriptions and then you'll know.......MAYBE.............. :eek:
And if I read my post correctly, I said the Storm block and not Cathers G5.................. :D

Just a little more info so you MIGHT learn something........... :eek:
In the pictures below is a 3/8 barb with ¼”NPSM threads from the Storm I have right in front of me along with a standard 1/4" NPT brass barb. As you can see in the pic, and also listed on Swiftechs web site, they are not 3/8 BSPP barbs. So unless you KNOW what you're taking about it would be nice if you kept your comments to yourself instead of trying to start something.

dsc001209xq.jpg

dsc001214ns.jpg
 
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