Michigan governor signs gaming law

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Stiler

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This is even worse then the one in California. Wtf is with all these new laws being placed against games??? If it were just a law to card people before they bought/rented an M game that'd be fine imo, but these are ridicolus and they are so vague that people can interpet them in many ways and they don't use the ESRB ratings so it affects even TEEN rated games.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/12/news_6133055.html

Democratic Michigan Governor Jennifer M. Granholm today announced that she signed into law legislation that prohibits the "sale or rental of mature or adult-rated video games to children.

In the interest of splitting hairs, the two bills Granholm signed today merely included sexually explicit video games in the state's list of things to shield from the prying eyes of minors. They are part of a package of four bills, the other two of which will be signed later this week. It is one of those two other bills, Senate Bill 416, that the governor is presumably talking about. Though it doesn't use a game's rating to determine if the proposed law applies to it, SB 416 prohibits the distribution of "ultra-violent explicit video games" to minors.

By the law's definition, an ultraviolent explicit video game means a game that "continually and repetitively depicts extreme and loathsome violence." Extreme and loathsome violence is further defined as "real or simulated graphic depictions of physical injuries or physical violence against parties who realistically appear to be human beings, including actions causing death, inflicting cruelty, dismemberment, decapitation, maiming, disfigurement, or other mutilation of body parts, murder, criminal sexual conduct, or torture.

Under the imminent Michigan law, a person caught giving a violent game to a minor would be liable for a fine of up to $5,000, five times the amount of the California law's maximum and equal to Clinton's proposed mandatory fine. However, unlike those efforts, the Michigan law increases fines for repeat offenders. A second infraction can merit a fine of up to $15,000, whereas the cost of subsequent violations can go up to $40,000.

Furthermore, anyone who pretends to be a minor's parent or legal guardian in order to get the game for that minor will face up to 93 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $15,000. The manager of a business that lets a minor view or play a violent game faces up to 93 days in jail and/or a fine of up to $25,000.

According to Granholm's office, a series of independent investigations conducted earlier this year found that minors were able to purchase games "rated M for Mature or NC-17" at 26 of 58 stores across six Michigan counties. Specific games purchased included Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat, Manhunt, Doom 3, and Resident Evil.

In her press release, Granholm grouped the signings as her latest achievement relating to child protection issues, along with her efforts to stop convicted sex offenders, Internet child pornographers, Web sites that sell ingredients to make the date rape drug GHB, and retailers that sell cigarettes and alcohol to minors.

Last year, violent gaming legislation in Washington was struck down as a violation of free speech because a federal judge determined there wasn't sufficient evidence to support the idea that violent games cause violent behavior, and vague phrasing made the law practically unenforceable.

According to California Assemblyman Leland Yee, one of the authors of the California bill currently before Governor Schwarzenegger, his legislation was written specifically to avoid problems with vague phrasing, while the Michigan law cites dozens of studies, hundreds of metastudies, and representatives of major national health organizations who have read "more than 1,000" studies in concluding that the effects of media violence on minors "are measurable and long-lasting."

If signed (which seems probable), the new law will take effect December 1, 2005.
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Ugh, I seriously hope it's turned over.

Why can't they merely relax and simply have stores be required to card people buying M games? would that not then solve the issue that most of them have with kids renting/buying M rated games?

Instead noooooooo, they have to re-define the rating and thus we now have basically Germany's law in the states against "violence to humans."

This means that MANY many Teen rated games will now be in this law.

How many of you played "violent" games as a teen? Not mature rated games, but simply "violent" games that caused "injury" against a human looking enemy????

That means about ALL fighting games, fps games, etc are goin to be under this law.
 
You know what? This might be a good thing.

Maybe from now on, instead of blaming a game for some dumbass kids
behavior, the lame ass media and government will start blaming the parents
and/or kids themselves.

Of course. I'm sure they'll still blame the games, so it's rather a moot point. :rolleyes:
 
I'm ashamed to live in Michigan now, she should go back to America Jr. (Canada)...

Hillary Clinton and her have done a good job of moving the blame away from the irresponsible parents who buy Grand Theft Auto for their 13 year old kids.
 
Yeah, you don't care you're only 18.

Fight the power, down with the government, anarchy in the UK baby!
:rolleyes:

Just becuase something doens't directly affect you doesn't mean it's A-ok.
 
I'm 23, but if Wisconsin follows suit I will be just as pissed off. This is taxpayer money paying for these chimps in suits to pass a bill saying that water should be wet.

It's rather equivalent to the gun control legislature. It's already illegal for criminals to carry guns. It's also already illegal to sell mature games to children(visit a Wal-Mart lately?). However, in both cases they'll just keep making more restrictive legislation, including the SAME STUFF OVER so that they can further demonstrate their control over us and our absolute lack of choice in how our earned dollars are spent. In the meantime, I want a tax refund and I want it NOW, if this is the kind of crap they're going to waste it on. New Orleans is under water, but let's worry about little Johnny staring at a flashing screen.
 
Don't wig out. It's just politicians going for the low hanging fruit, i.e. easy targets. The conservatives have their pet morality issues. The Dems don't wanna be left out of the "righteousness" fest.
 
Dont get me started on this, its about the only thing on local tv beings I live in MI. It gets the wife and I all fired up yelling at the tv everytime its brought up. It is NOT the job of the cashier at the store to determine whether a game is appropriate or not, where are the parents?

Times like this I am glad the wife and I agree that its best to just stay with having the dog and not worry about having kids.
 
Aelfgeft said:
It's also already illegal to sell mature games to children(visit a Wal-Mart lately?).
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When did it become illegal to sell mature games to kids? The ESRB rating are guidelines not something that is set in stone. Down the road this will not be a big deal. You are supposed to be carded if your going to see an R rated movie, or rent/buy one for that matter. Some retail stores follow this procedure more strictly then others. Videogame purchases will end up being the exact same way.
 
It is not the goverments job to decide how best to raise our children.

Its the parents job.

Its not the goverments job to dictate what is appropriate for our children.

Its the parents job.

Parents are where the liability lay, Video games are not just a childs arena any more. Video games are for different age groups.


If a parent fails to screen what they buy their child, or what their child buys, Then its the fault of the parents.

its not the video game companys fault for making the game.

its not the ESRBs fault for being a suggestion, and not a law.

its the parents fault, for buying shit for their kids that they think they shouldn't have.

But no.

Parents can't do that.

They want to shut little timmy up, so they buy him what he wants.

Then bitch when they walk into the room and find little timmy killing cops in SA.

Then its public outrage and the evil game corporations!

Not the fact that mommy didn't give 2 fucks about anything other than shutting little timmy up, because he was interupting mommies PRECIOUS FUCKING TIME ON THE GOD DAMN PHONE.
 
Sounds like someone is a bit angry. Your right about it being the parents job but what if they do not do their job? What if the parent is too lazy to get a job which will allow them to feed their children? Welfare steps in and passes out food stamps etc that gets food into the kids mouths. When parents begin to fail at parenting the gov't has stepped in. If they have done this in other aspects of life whats so wrong with making it a bit harder for Jr. to get his hands on a game?
 
jdunner3 said:
Sounds like someone is a bit angry. Your right about it being the parents job but what if they do not do their job? What if the parent is too lazy to get a job which will allow them to feed their children? Welfare steps in and passes out food stamps etc that gets food into the kids mouths. When parents begin to fail at parenting the gov't has stepped in. If they have done this in other aspects of life whats so wrong with making it a bit harder for Jr. to get his hands on a game?
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If a parent can't raise a kid, then the goverment takes that kid and places it with someone else.

It dosn't need to pass frivilous laws to satiate the current fever pitch by the middle american neo-facist christian outrages.
 
this sucks, im 16 and i live in MI - and i "shouldnt" be playing these games, but its not like im gonna go kill someone after playing them.(and no my parents didnt buy the game for me) i say darwinism - let the people who get mad from the games kill each other off and then we'll be left with the people who arent retarded like taht. :) of course then you get innocent people involved.... danget why cant people not take life so seriously.
 
jdunner3 said:
When did it become illegal to sell mature games to kids? The ESRB rating are guidelines not something that is set in stone. Down the road this will not be a big deal. You are supposed to be carded if your going to see an R rated movie, or rent/buy one for that matter. Some retail stores follow this procedure more strictly then others. Videogame purchases will end up being the exact same way.
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Wrong.

The MPAA ratings for movies are NOT laws, they are voluntary just like games are now.

Many stores already do card for buying M rated games, some don't.
 
Kankykur7 said:
this sucks, im 16 and i live in MI - and i "shouldnt" be playing these games, but its not like im gonna go kill someone after playing them.(and no my parents didnt buy the game for me) i say darwinism - let the people who get mad from the games kill each other off and then we'll be left with the people who arent retarded like taht. :) of course then you get innocent people involved.... danget why cant people not take life so seriously.
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People who go and do a columbine are psychotic to begin with, The game has no effect on their psychosis.
 
I have the RIGHT NOT TO GIVE A FUCK about stuff that doesnt affect me

And I use it all day long :D

So dont act like I should care :)
 
This is sorta all bullshit, I mean yeah some games may have an influence on kids, but when people, the government, and parents blame a game for why their kid went and killed people, that just pisses me off. I mean, if they didn't like it, they could just say "No, I won't let you play that game." and take it away. And plus, the game rarely has influence, unless, it is all you do (violent games, violent TV, and sometimes you'll take on a violent frame of mind) but restricting will piss more people off than it will help protect against this. I mean I occasionally play violent games, but that's because I just sometimes like to, it's not the only games I play, and it's not the only thing I do. Kids who think violence is cool, and ok because of a video game need counseling, plus really violent kids have major problems anyways, so it's not the game always, but people are always no matter what, trying to find a person/thing to blame, but that's just my two cents, and my rant.
 
25 male here, won't do shit to me.

But maybe this will prevent dumbass mom and dad from buying clueless Jimmy the 10 year old Grand Theft Auto. San Andreas. :rolleyes:

Uniformed parents are a childs worst enemy. If you can't feed em or train em, don't breed em.
 
Its not that hard for parents to say no, either.


I know a person who blatently and firmly says no whenever her son says he wants GTA:SA.


He may not like it, but its an example of a parent that actually gives a fuck and actually raises her children, as opposed to letting a broken goverment do it for her
 
Lets throw ESRB out the door then, this sounds like it stops nothing the ESRB rating didn't stop. Its not the problem of minors buying the games, its the parents letting them play. From my interpretation of this parents can still buy it and give it to their kids. The ESRB does a fine job IMO of rating games, carding kids trying to by M rated games works well in my town. I live in Michigan, the local Best Buy comes down hard on employees not carding kids. The GTA:SA thing was a bit of a goof up with ESRB, and a larger bit of lies and irresponsibility from Rockstar. Now because of some stupid mistake the government thinks they need to take action. How bout slapping every parent with a young child playing GTA:SA as a start.
 
So if I let my 11 year old son play a game like GTA:SA he is going to end up all violent or fucked up in the head? I just don't buy that at all.

Now I don't mind the Idea of carding minors for games, movies ect... But I ain't buying into the games are the cause..
 
She probably is a dyke and don't have kids. Plus she is a woman with power and from Michigan of all places.....
 
computerdude said:
She probably is a dyke and don't have kids. Plus she is a woman with power and from Michigan of all places.....
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She's not a dyke, but she's definitely a bitch who has run the economy of Michigan into the ground. She belongs out in California with Arnold, they would make a great pair. Michigan's econony is going down the drain and all she has to worry about is violence in Video Games.

BTW Michigan's a great place, with the exception of the economy and the Gov.

Go Wolverines!!! Still trying to figure out what a BUCKEYE is :D
 
Wouldn't matter to me if I was still a teenager, as long as I truely explained to my parents what was in the game. I got what ever I wanted. Becuase most time my mom would ask the clerk about the game.
 
Lets sticky this thread and change the title to " Why it is impossible for intelligent debates on [H] anymore".
 
BAM!!!

And so it starts.


One state does, it...then another...and another...and another......


And actually, she isn't a dyke. She's a whore. Michigan is chock full of whores....my ex is from Michigan....she had 3+ more sexual partners than she was old.
 
Moose777 said:
BAM!!!

And so it starts.


One state does, it...then another...and another...and another......
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Gaming will end up like smoking.


You can only do it in your own home, in your bedroom, under the covers, with the lights out, and the window blinds shut. :p
 
Moose777 said:
And actually, she isn't a dyke. She's a whore. Michigan is chock full of whores....my ex is from Michigan....she had 3+ more sexual partners than she was old.
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You really must get out more!

Komataguri said:
Gaming will end up like smoking.


You can only do it in your own home, in your bedroom, under the covers, with the lights out, and the window blinds shut.
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It is unfortunate....but smoking isn't that way...yet.
 
Meaning that isnt really that bad. Plus I love the assumption that all Michiganders are this way.
 
jdunner3 said:
Lets sticky this thread and change the title to " Why it is impossible for intelligent debates on [H] anymore".
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Are you talking about the fact how people are calling people from michigan dykes and how dykes and whores are why games M rated games are the cause of controversy? since I think that dykes have nothing to do with that.
 
Pepster64 said:
She's not a dyke, but she's definitely a bitch who has run the economy of Michigan into the ground. She belongs out in California with Arnold, they would make a great pair. Michigan's econony is going down the drain and all she has to worry about is violence in Video Games.

BTW Michigan's a great place, with the exception of the economy and the Gov.

Go Wolverines!!! Still trying to figure out what a BUCKEYE is :D
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Hate to say it, but the economy was run into the ground far before Granholm. Engler (gov. prior to Granholm) is the one that got us to this point (not the economy, but lots of state debt we didn't have prior to him), and Granholm is stuck cleaning up the mess. Not giving Granholm a plus or a minus on this; and by the way, the economy for good or bad, is rarely influenced by the government. What IS happening is that blue-collar manufacturing jobs which are a major part of the economy, are moving out because labor is cheaper elsewhere. Unions are a factor in this, greedy shareholders are a factor in this, greedy CEO's too. But little of it has anything to do with her.

P.S. This law is likely to be struck down; previous courts in other states have done so, and it places an unfair burden on companies to have to change their businesses to suit the laws of one state as well. Free speech debates will probably be lost by the gov't. in court too. What bothers me is, all the effort wasted to create an "At least I tried" campaign so the governor can point to things she's done when she runs for reelection next year.
 
Glad others agree about intelligent debates.

I do hope everyone realizes and agrees that the only reason these laws are being passed or being written and attempted to pass is because they are currently the pc hot topic. Politicians stay on what is current and do what they think is necessary to gain votes/popularity/re-election. I mean think about it...there are plenty of issues for politicians to take stances on but not many have the backing of the vast majority of the population like this issue does. The gamers that make up this forum are, in reality, a very small part of society and voters in general. Might as well pass a few laws that will make them look good/busy.
 
Being 15 in Michigan got a lot worse :mad: I've played violent video games since I was 6 or 7 years old and I am not a violent person. It's really sad how people expect the government to do everything now. Can't raise your kids? I'ts not your fault the government should take care of it. Hopefully this gets overturned, but until then I guess I will just have to have my parents buy my games. Usually I can just walk into my local best buy and pick up any game I want but with these huge fines for selling to minors I doubt that is gonna happen anymore. This just gives me another reason to have that stupid canadian granholm.
 
jdunner3 said:
Glad others agree about intelligent debates.

I do hope everyone realizes and agrees that the only reason these laws are being passed or being written and attempted to pass is because they are currently the pc hot topic. Politicians stay on what is current and do what they think is necessary to gain votes/popularity/re-election. I mean think about it...there are plenty of issues for politicians to take stances on but not many have the backing of the vast majority of the population like this issue does. The gamers that make up the vast amount of this forum are, in reality, a very small part of society and voters in general. Might as well pass a few laws that will make them look good/busy.
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QFT.


Politicians care about votes, And only do what will foster more votes.
 
v1p3r-386- said:
Being 15 in Michigan got a lot worse :mad: I've played violent video games since I was 6 or 7 years old and I am not a violent person. It's really sad how people expect the government to do everything now. Can't raise your kids? I'ts not your fault the government should take care of it. Hopefully this gets overturned, but until then I guess I will just have to have my parents buy my games. Usually I can just walk into my local best buy and pick up any game I want but with these huge fines for selling to minors I doubt that is gonna happen anymore. This just gives me another reason to have that stupid canadian granholm.
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Did not realize Mich gov. was a Canadian. For all the youngins who dont feel like killin each other and still want their violent games....internet purchases are still an option.
 
jdunner3 said:
When did it become illegal to sell mature games to kids? The ESRB rating are guidelines not something that is set in stone. Down the road this will not be a big deal. You are supposed to be carded if your going to see an R rated movie, or rent/buy one for that matter. Some retail stores follow this procedure more strictly then others. Videogame purchases will end up being the exact same way.
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Um, a couple of weeks ago I bought Half Life 2 at Wal-Mart. I've almost graduated college. They asked for my ID. It is already illegal. Trust me, I talked with the manager.
 
She actually does have kids, I saw her daughter at my orthodontist(sp?) with a secret service(I guess that is what you would call it) guy.

I do dislike the law but since it doesnt affect me, one less thing to worry about, it might actually be sorta good, stop them bitching about stuff and start blaming parents.
 
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