Got an Xbox 360 hands on preview yesterday...impressions....

LynxFX

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Out of the blue a week ago, I was contacted by MS through a forum, none-the-less, and invited to NYC to try out the Xbox 360 for a day. All paid, so who would say no? :D You'll probably start reading a few posts about this over the next couple days.

Gotta say that I really don't know what to think about this whole thing. For one thing, it was the shortest trip I've ever taken (arrived tuesday noon, left wed AM), but MS spared no expense. Private Cadillac to pick you up from the airport and drop you back off the next day and setup in a swanky $300 a night hotel. Add that to the airline ticket and MS forked out at least a grand for each person just in travel and room.

There were also a lot fewer people picked that I thought. 20 total, 10 to NYC, 10 to SF.

Anyway, we get to the event around 3, X360's setup everywhere with nice Samsung 30" LCD's all at 720p. About 30 setups like that all over, all developer SKG's, all wired controllers. Only one wireless controller in the place and that was being used by one of the MS people. The control does feel pretty good and after 8 straight hours of gameplay, no fatigue or discomfort so kudos to MS right there. Guess I'll have to get rid of my Duke.

First thing we get a tour of the system and a quick glance at Kameo. Kameo is already started and ingame and we get to see one of the coolest features that will surely make you Live lads squirm with joy. Press that nifty 'Xbox' button on your controller and out slides a panel over your current game. In it shows a bunch of info, friends list, messages, your stats, whose online, play music (in any game), etc. Easy stuff to connect to friends, join their game, do other stuff while a level is loading. Pretty cool over all, but a bit sluggish from what I saw. About a 1 to 2 second delay on selection. From this screen you can also load up the dashboard which will quit your current game.

So the dashboard. Wow what a huge improvement! The system is very slick with the 'blades' (panels), purty as well and completely skinable. LIVE is the main (first) blade. All the info you could want right there. Next blade was Games. This shows every game stat you have as well as lets you download updates, new stuff, demos, connect to Xbox Live Arcade (some awesome stuff there and comes preloaded with every Xbox360....at least I think that's what they said oh and Geometry Wars fucking rules!!). You can compare your stats with other players and every game is going to have some sort of stat to get even if it is just "You got to level 4". 3rd blade is the media blade. This will connect with any Media Center PC for further features, but you also have pictures and they gave us all ipod nano's to connect straight into the Xbox. The ipod shows up and you can play your music straight from that, no transfers necissary. We couldn't keep the nanos. :( I assume pretty much any MP3 player will work as well.

So the dashboard is a huge success IMO but most of the features I could care less about. As long as Live is a pay service, I won't be a part of it, but for those of you that do hand over your money and play a lot online with friends the new interface will become very useful.

So we go through a quick peak at Kameo (more on that later). Then we go to the demos section and check out PG3. Quick race, presentation is over. Then we are set free to play anything we want. Most of the games had at least one person there responsible for it, whether it was the producer, designer or whatnot.

So here are the games:

Call of Duty 2
First, the only finished game there. The main designer was there and it was pretty funny watching him point out all of the little secrets for me to go to. The game looks just like it does on the PC. If you have played the demo, you know what to expect. Sound is great! (only station there that had wireless headsets for audio as the rest only had minimal sound coming out of the tv, most of the time silent. :( ) But just like the PC, the graphics aren't anything truly spectacular. Ran very smoothly and should be a hot launch title if you don't buy it on the PC first in the next couple weeks.

Kameo
A near finished game. Got it to crash a few times. I also spent probably 4 hours on this title alone. Very fun game, creative, and unique. It reminds me a lot of Munches Oddysey. Graphics are pretty good on it and really good in certain situations and certain models, but then others are lacking. There is also a great deal of aliasing which as you read on, turns out to be a problem in most of the games. This isn't a game that you can really describe. You just have to play it.

PGR3
Very mixed feelings on this one. The devs went on and on about how much detail is in the surrounds and the buildings etc. Some of it is great, some not that great, some not even needed. The cars, also tons of detail went into them, but then some of them look like they are cell shaded, especially the interior view. But the biggest problem with the game that I had was that it was a jaggy mess! What the hell happened to that free AA that the system could do? You can have the most detailed background in the world, but if the cars look like they were cutout by a kindergardener and pasted on top of that world, it will look like crap. I'm hoping that it is because it isn't finished and they still have to impliment it but man, I was expecting jaggy free gaming from this system. The gameplay was decent. Cars were sluggish, very easy to lose control. Guess I'm too used to Burnout 3. The online element seems to be pretty deep. They have a ticker going across the bottom of the screen when you are in the menus that shows random games that are currently going on and whos winning etc. I will say that the game looked photorealistic if you stepped back a ways where your eyes will cause natural AA. So there's hope.

Dead or Alive 4
Checked this one out briefly. Graphics still look good. Not much different from DOA3. The environments now have objects that you can hop over, fences, tables etc. Some also have random elements such as cars that you can throw your opponent into when it drives by causing more damage. Takes timing. The online feature has a virtual lobby where you go in as a character and walk around talking to other people and pick fights. You can also go up to this virtual tv screen and watch the current fight as it is going on. Tons of different looking lobbies to get, and characters. This is where they are going in terms of customization instead of just adding more and more costumes. Fighting is just like DOA3.

Oblivion
This is a tough one. I watched all the videos, seen the screenshots, then played the game. The graphics are good, and then they are bad, really bad. That opening scene in the jail didn't look anything like the videos. Sure you had some great looking bricks and lighting, but nothing went together or meshed. Again I'll use the kindergarden analogy. Cut and pasted on. Some serious jaggy issues that need to be worked out. The game itself looks pretty good. Crashed that one a couple times. It's Fable, in a different setting.

Condemned
I didn't play it too much because there was no sound and you really need that for this creepy game. Not positive but I think it is based on the Doom III engine and it looks it. And if it isn't, well they copied it pretty well. Nice use of lighting. It's a mix between Doom III and the movie Se7en and CSI. The guys that played it for a couple hours loved it. Jaggies again present but not as much as some other games.

Need for Speed
I personally found this game to be more fun than PG3 and the graphics looked top notch as well. Of course this is hard to tell when the game is only running at ~24 frames per second. Now I don't know if the systems we were playing on were the final hardware. So there could have been some power issues, but the game needs work. The open city is pretty cool and you can go anywhere, no loading. And again, jaggies golore.

NBA 2k6
Another one of those that can look great at times and then just 'off'. Definitely shows where sports games are going in terms of reality. Didn't care for the gameplay though, but I'm not the best judge for that kind of game. I did notice some framerate issues.

Perfect Dark Zero
Can't believe I forgot this game. Ok yes I can, because it is completely forgetable! It's just another generic FPS. Not a single thing caught my eye on this. The graphics aren't that hot, the character animations don't look right, the gameplay is clunky. I just wasn't feeling it. I played coop with one of the top gamer chicks from that chick clan (forget the name) and I just got bored. Good sound would have helped a bit but just from the game itself, I no likey.

I think that's it. Overall the games look good, but not great. I have a feeling that MS is rushing things a bit for this launch and that's never good. We'll have to wait for the 2nd gen games to come out to see what it can do graphically because none of those games are pushing any envelopes. I also don't believe any game will be able to surpass what current gen PC gfx cards will be able to do. But as developers start using the new features both platforms should get some nice looking games in the future. My biggest complaint is the fucking jaggies. There is absolutely no reason why any Xbox 360 game should have jaggies, or the amount that was apparent in these games. I've been jaggie free ever since I got my 7800GTX and I'm running at 1680x1050p. With the specs the X360 has, 1280x720p should be a cakewalk, and 1920x1080i which is essentially 1920x540 (fixed). So hopefully those features will get enforced and improved upon.

So now about the event. Gotta say, I didn't really get the point of it. MS spends all of this money on a couple random people to fly them out for a few hours of gaming on the system and then just sends them off? No survey's, very few questions answered besides some game specific from the devs that were there. We all kept our memory cards, but that's all the swag we got. Seems like a pretty expensive localized publicity stunt. The various forums will be buzzing though, and that was probably the intent.

As for the system itself, it didn't alter my decision to wait for the PS3 and at that time get what I want...hopefully cheaper. Games that exploit the power won't be out for quite a while and I would be a tad worried about the first gen hardware and games. But MS does have a solid console on their hands. It will be successful and if you are a Live junky, then you are there main target audience. That's probably why I'm not super hot on the console.

BTW, the controller ports are on the front of the system. Not sure if everyone knew that (I didn't). They are hidden behind a trapdoor. :)

Anyway, I do want to thank MS for giving me the opportunity. It was fun, and they treated us very well.
 
LynxFX said:
Oblivion
This is a tough one. I watched all the videos, seen the screenshots, then played the game. The graphics are good, and then they are bad, really bad. That opening scene in the jail didn't look anything like the videos. Sure you had some great looking bricks and lighting, but nothing went together or meshed. Again I'll use the kindergarden analogy. Cut and pasted on. Some serious jaggy issues that need to be worked out. The game itself looks pretty good. Crashed that one a couple times. It's Fable, in a different setting.

The PC version will look better with the right hardware, thats what I am waiting for... but anyways, great review, thanks for taking the time to write it. :)
 
I went in with a very critical eye with all the talk of ATI's chip, the power of the system, HD gaming, free AA etc. That's what I was looking for first and foremost and that's probably why I was so disappointed to see how some of these games looked, especially compared to what I've been seeing with my 7800GTX lately.

Of course these are unfinished games with a month or two of dev left. Problem areas can still be addressed.
 
CHollman82 said:
The PC version will look better with the right hardware, thats what I am waiting for... but anyways, great review, thanks for taking the time to write it. :)
I kinda doubt it will look any better.
 
CHollman82 said:
The PC version will look better with the right hardware, thats what I am waiting for... but anyways, great review, thanks for taking the time to write it. :)

not according to the developers of oblivion. unless you mean massive amounts of AA and AF from an SLI setup, then yea i could imagine it could look better.
 
That was all in your imaginations, the graphics comments.... continue forth and save the thread!
 
LynxFX said:
Oblivion
This is a tough one. I watched all the videos, seen the screenshots, then played the game. The graphics are good, and then they are bad, really bad. That opening scene in the jail didn't look anything like the videos. Sure you had some great looking bricks and lighting, but nothing went together or meshed. Again I'll use the kindergarden analogy. Cut and pasted on. Some serious jaggy issues that need to be worked out. The game itself looks pretty good. Crashed that one a couple times. It's Fable, in a different setting.

Please tell me your last sentence is strictly on fighting dynamics or something and not on the entire game. Everyone I knew referred to Fable as "Morrowind for retards" and that was my experience as well. Please tell me that Oblivion isn't as dumbed down and bland as Fable.
 
Wow, good thread. I've felt that Microsoft was rushing the whole time. It sounds like they're having mad problems. I read on the bbc news website that they don't know how they're going to meet the launch date, and they seem pretty freaked. Meanwhile, Nintendo is just chillin.
 
Never played Morrowind but from what I can tell, it is dumbed down as you might call it. I would say it is streamlined. Much like Fable, if you fight with your sword a lot, you become skilled at the sword with experience points. In Oblvion, it's the same thing, except it just happens. You don't collect anything. It is just constantly recorded. It looks deeper than Fable on all levels of your character so if I would guess, it would be between Fable and Morrowind in what you are looking for. It's a fun game though. :)

No Viper, he didn't come. He's going to something else that I believe starts today or tomorrow.
 
WOW....looks like I will not buy a Xbox360 at Launch. I will use the money and get a new guitar. Thanks...I will wait for PS3 now.
 
LynxFX said:
No Viper, he didn't come. He's going to something else that I believe starts today or tomorrow.


I see. Maybe he will bring better news than you did :confused:

You sounded overall unpressed... I know I wasn't reading things, but I will still get a launch system. I need a reason to get back on live. Really, the only thing that looks like it would be an annoyance to me is jaggies...and after all the talk with AA im not sure whats up with that. Hopefully its a last minute thing that will be corrected by the time the system launches.
 
You know all those screenshots with out the HUD? Well, the reason they're with out the HUD, is that games look about 2x as good with out it. HL2 and Doom 3 look much better from the proper cinematic angles. That's one thing to consider. The other thing is, by the time devs. figure out how the code the new consoles properly, PC's will have already shot past them in graphics. Don't expect the consoles to blow away PC at any point in terms of graphics.


...Sigh, 720p, no AA. Oh well. If it supports Mouse and KB it mgiht be worth the 300$. I'll put my own darn HDD in though, I'm not going to pay 100$ for a stupid 20GB one.
 
I'll be really curious to see what everything looks like at launch. What got improved, what didn't, what got delayed. IMO, I think MS is rushing this launch. The potential is there, but I don't think the devs were given the time to put together solid titles.

It's funny, we all road in the same van back to the hotel and the general concensus was "Some cool stuff, but not sure if I want to pay $400+ for it."
 
Sounds like they are trying to rush it out before it's ready. I would imagine if most of the launch games suffer from the problems that you mention then they're going to be some very unhappy people.
 
well afaik the launch date is around thanksgiving. after thanksgiving is the biggest shopping day of the whole year. i can see why they picked that launch date. ive been to gamestop a few times and the salesmen says they are out of stock on there first shipment and well into the second shipment as far as pre order sales go. nice review i got alot of info out of it. i think its like that with any system give them a few months after release to fine tune the games and it will take off. it seems like they always rush the launch title games.
 
LynxFX said:
and 1920x1080i which is essentially 960x1080

Wrong. You're halving the pixels in the wrong direction. It's more like 540p, if you insist on comparing it to a progressive resolution.

Obi_Kwiet said:
I'll put my own darn HDD in though, I'm not going to pay 100$ for a stupid 20GB one.

It's a SATA laptop drive in a custom enclosure. You'll at least need an enclosure that fits the Xbox, along with a hard drive that will work (rumor is that data read from the drive is encrypted).
 
"im gonna wait for ps3 now"

um......nothing makes ps3 better.....unless features are what you"pc enthusiats" eant
 
Kevin Lowe said:
Wrong. You're halving the pixels in the wrong direction. It's more like 540p, if you insist on comparing it to a progressive resolution.
You are right, my mistake. I wrote that all on 2 hours of sleep in the past 2 days. :)
 
very good review. very unbiased and critical. its a shame that some of the launch games couldn't be better. from the looks of things, it seems developers are just using the same techniques for pc games and porting it to the xbox. judging from ur review, most of the launch games don't look that much better than current pc technology
 
Anyone else not surpruised? I hope Nintendo takes all the time they need, and make a ninja sneak attack with grrreat games.

SSB Online
Mario Kart Online
Mario Party would be like a drug if it had online
Zelda
etc. etc.

I'm glad that The Xbox wont have too much on my current rig for the time being.
 
As a fan of the original perfect dark, it saddens me that you say that PD0 is so generic. Then again, most of Rare's FPS talent is now Free Radical (Timesplitters) so it doesn't surprise me. I will gladly wait for my Revolution and then a year down the line, purchase a PS3 or X360 depending upon the games that are offered and the price. Isaac - don't worry, i think they're even working on making some of the old Mario Party games work online.

I wonder, though, why some of you are surprised that the X360 is rushed. Their whole point was to launch way before the other 2 systems (1 year) and try to pull a PS2. Anyone remember the beginning of PS2?
 
Kevin Lowe said:
It's a SATA laptop drive in a custom enclosure. You'll at least need an enclosure that fits the Xbox, along with a hard drive that will work (rumor is that data read from the drive is encrypted).

Yeah, but it dosen't matter what size it is. All I need is an SATA HDD and the right ISO files, right?
 
Man what a downer this post is, I don't want to hear this shit! heh I want to hear how awesome the games look and how fun they are.. I think anyone shelling out THAT much cash for the system and games doesn't want to hear it's all bleh :(
 
LynxFX said:
Never played Morrowind but from what I can tell, it is dumbed down as you might call it. I would say it is streamlined. Much like Fable, if you fight with your sword a lot, you become skilled at the sword with experience points. In Oblvion, it's the same thing, except it just happens. You don't collect anything. It is just constantly recorded. It looks deeper than Fable on all levels of your character so if I would guess, it would be between Fable and Morrowind in what you are looking for. It's a fun game though. :)

No offense, but if you never played MW I think I'll take your opinion of Oblivion with a grain of salt. The game is nothing like Fable. What you're talking about with experience points has been part of the series since Daggerfall.
 
Thanks for these first impressions. It was a nice read.

If you have anything to add about Oblivion I'd like to read that. Like...
How much time did you played it? Did you manage do get out of the first dungeon? How did you find the characters animations? Are they better then on the E3 DVD video? How did you like the combat with sword/bow/magic? Remember anything about the character creation? Was there someone who played MW in the past who told you his opinions about Oblivion? Anything else you might remember :D
 
Stereophile said:
No offense, but if you never played MW I think I'll take your opinion of Oblivion with a grain of salt. The game is nothing like Fable. What you're talking about with experience points has been part of the series since Daggerfall.
Yes I never played MW but I've played Fable forwards and backwards and Oblivion felt like Fable to me, only darker with some nice graphics that need polishing.

Vol,
I played it for under an hour. Went through the opening scene in the dungeon but when I was asked to follow the guys I went down the stairs and picked a fight with the guards. Needless to say I was killed. :D But since we were running the debug version we skipped around a lot so I went to later levels to check it out. Battles are pretty straight forward. Only used the sword and shield. You have quite a few different races you can choose from at the beginning, and then they all have male or female options. Then you can customize hair, eyes etc. Some funky looking guys thats for sure. Didn't ask if anyone had played MW but I think everyone that saw the game liked it. They just need to fix the graphics in some areas which didn't look like all of the videos I've watched.
 
The launch is still 6 weeks away, a lot can change in 6 weeks time. It sounds like most of the issues you had with many of the games were polish issues, and a few debugging problems left to go. I also think you went into it looking for problems more so than things they did correctly, which tbh is exactly what the game devs need to hear, and is a good thing for the consumers to hear as well.

I will leave my decision on the games until I see final versions, or reviews of final versions. I still plan on getting an Xbox at launch.



ObiKwiet : I dont think even with a normal SATA drive it will work, I believe the enclosure connects to the 360 with a proprietary connection, preventing normal SATA drives from being used. It is probably like that so a year from now we can all pay the evil empire 200$ for a 120GB HDD upgrade.... :rolleyes:
 
No point in getting a system at launch unless there is a game that you cannot live without. I do not see any "killer apps" for the 360 yet. I fully intend on buying one but why buy just to be an early adopter if its gonna sit around?
 
jdunner3 said:
No point in getting a system at launch unless there is a game that you cannot live without. I do not see any "killer apps" for the 360 yet. I fully intend on buying one but why buy just to be an early adopter if its gonna sit around?

PGR3 is my "killer app." IMO its the best console racing franchise.

re: the polish & glitches, I wouldn't be concerned. Around this time xbox1 launch Halo 1 was running at 15fps on the xbox dev kits. Ran great on the retail xbox.
 
LynxFX said:
Yes I never played MW but I've played Fable forwards and backwards and Oblivion felt like Fable to me, only darker with some nice graphics that need polishing.
Why did it feel like Fable ? They're both rpgs ?
Thanks for the preview but like I said I'm taking your Oblivion comments with a HUGE grain of salt.
 
jdunner3 said:
No point in getting a system at launch unless there is a game that you cannot live without. I do not see any "killer apps" for the 360 yet. I fully intend on buying one but why buy just to be an early adopter if its gonna sit around?

Because I would probably purchase it before a price cut...so why not get it early and play it for awhile before I would otherwise get it? It is getting more out of my money that way rather than sitting on a store shelf for a couple months waiting for me to purchase it ;)
 
I don't think you'll have to wait too long for a price cut. Not to mention there will likely actually be some good titles coming out early next year.
 
I wonder if any of the jaggies or some of the other graphic issues have to do with the hardware it was running on..
 
It might be the final hardware, but if the software has room to go before going gold, then a ton of difference could be made there. Especially in the AA department.

Or it could be that it was still an earlier revision of the hardware that was being reused from event to event. Without having been there, and being told what it was or wasn't, you can not make a factual statement as to "it's the final hardware" I know I'm splitting hairs here, but come on.

Don't make statements you can not back up, I know that's the currency of the internet and all, but sheesh.

I'm on the fence as to what I'm doing on 360 launch day. I waited almost 2 years to buy the first one, and it took me forever to buy a PSone and then to switch to a PS2. Games like the SSX/Burnout series and Killer-App RPG's are more my style.

Having been a PC gamer for so long, it takes a lot to impress me from any new FPS that comes out for any platform. Most of the time I just put them down. Same with most fighting games.

I'll probably have to wait for a 360 Burnout, SSX branded game or something kind of Off the wall to really get a buy in on the 360 it sounds like. I tell you what would put me in the definite buyer category. Lan or Live enbabled co-op modes for any 2+ player game. I hate playing splitscreen anything, and I stopped years ago after hating how Halo 1 played. Didn't even give Halo 2 co-op a chance. I've got 2 hdtv's here, I'm not going to endure shit-graphics on them just to play co-op.

Co-op rocks if done properly, and can even spruce up crappy games if you have a buddy to frag with. (See: Doom 3) Anybody got any 360 co-op game info?

As with this generation I'll more than likely end up with all 3, but 1 system will be plugged up more than the others, just like now.

Good thread!
 
I didn't assume that the event had final hardware, I meant Microsoft has final hardware. If they don't, then they're in big trouble. That said, it was likely that the hardware at the event was either near-final (95+%) or final. The discrepencies like AA likely lie in the unfinished software. But.... aren't the lot of these titles supposed to be launch games?
 
i agree

i think it would be far too late to change any hardware around. firmware and software is what's going to be able to change at any time. the x360 sounds very oriented around Xbox live so they can update things as they please most likely. As for graphics, i'm not surprised one bit that they aren't spectacular. granted they still have 6 weeks, but it's not going to be that much better. only smoother running if anything.

Later on down the road may be a different story. There is potenial, but developers aren't used to it yet. Give games sometime before you say there's no way you're buying one because of shotty pre-release performace.

 
Around this time xbox1 launch Halo 1 was running at 15fps on the xbox dev kits. Ran great on the retail xbox.

halo 1 ran at 30fps max and suffered from massive slowdown issues, especially in co-op

it fan perfectly fine however, with no action happening on the screen
 
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